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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Matthew Newton <mc...@leicester.ac.uk> on 2005/03/04 16:23:45 UTC

ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Hi,

Sorry if this has been mentioned before. I seem to remember that it
might have been, but I can't find it.

Just had a spam arrive that was given a -3.3 score for "ALL_TRUSTED".
Funny thing is that my local.cf contains the following:

  # we trust our local network
  # removed: sa never used for internal originating spam.
  clear_trusted_networks
  #trusted_networks 143.210.
  #internal_networks 143.210.

because I commented the lines out a couple of months or more ago. SA is
only run (using exiscan) for messages coming in to our network from
external hosts, so it should never fire on this rule as far as I can
see.

Is this bug related?

  http://bugzilla.spamassassin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3949

Message headers are below. You may notice that there is one received
header missing in the chain as we have an internal old broken sendmail
system that doesn't add the headers sometimes, but that will be fixed in
a few months when it's switched off!

Any ideas? I think the best plan now is the just set the score of
ALL_TRUSTED to 0?

Thanks

Matthew


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        Pts Rule name              Description
        ---- ---------------------- ---------------------------------------
        0.2 INVALID_DATE           Invalid Date: header (not RFC 2822)
        -3.3 ALL_TRUSTED            Did not pass through any untrusted hosts
        2.7 MSGID_OUTLOOK_INVALID  Message-Id is fake (in Outlook Express +format)
        0.0 HTML_40_50             BODY: Message is 40% to 50% HTML
        0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
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-- 
Matthew Newton <mc...@le.ac.uk>

UNIX and e-mail Systems Administrator, Network Support Section,
Computer Centre, University of Leicester,
Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Posted by Matthew Newton <mc...@leicester.ac.uk>.
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 11:07:46AM -0600, Sandy S wrote:
> This looks like another "reserved IP" issue, as discussed in this thread:
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.mail.spam.spamassassin.general/62078
> 
> If you look at the original received header, it shows an IP address of
> 71.8.202.198, which spamassassin sees as a reserved, and thus trusted, IP.
> The above-referenced thread includes a fix for this issue.

Aah, thanks. Although I suppose in this situation if I set
{trusted,internal}_networks then SA shouldn't have to guess it, and
therefore won't use these supposedly un-used IPs?

Matthew (getting increasingly confused about the whole issue!)

-- 
Matthew Newton <mc...@le.ac.uk>

UNIX and e-mail Systems Administrator, Network Support Section,
Computer Centre, University of Leicester,
Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Posted by "Daryl C. W. O'Shea" <sp...@dostech.ca>.
Sandy S wrote:
> This looks like another "reserved IP" issue, as discussed in this thread:
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.mail.spam.spamassassin.general/62078
> 
> If you look at the original received header, it shows an IP address of
> 71.8.202.198, which spamassassin sees as a reserved, and thus trusted, IP.
> The above-referenced thread includes a fix for this issue.

I don't believe that little bug (caused by assignment of that netblock, 
which is fixed in 3.1) will affect this case (since 71.8.202.198 is a 
remote sender's address).  At least it doesn't if I run the message 
through my setup after adding

trusted_networks        143.210.8.56
internal_networks       143.210.8.56

to my setup.


Daryl


Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Posted by Sandy S <sa...@boreal.org>.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daryl C. W. O'Shea" <sp...@dostech.ca>
To: "Matt Kettler" <mk...@comcast.net>
Cc: "Matthew Newton" <mc...@leicester.ac.uk>; <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks


> Matt Kettler wrote:
> > At 10:23 AM 3/4/2005, Matthew Newton wrote:
> >
> >> Just had a spam arrive that was given a -3.3 score for "ALL_TRUSTED".
> >> Funny thing is that my local.cf contains the following:
> >>
> >>   # we trust our local network
> >>   # removed: sa never used for internal originating spam.
> >>   clear_trusted_networks
> >>   #trusted_networks 143.210.
> >>   #internal_networks 143.210.
> >>
> >> because I commented the lines out a couple of months or more ago. SA is
> >> only run (using exiscan) for messages coming in to our network from
> >> external hosts, so it should never fire on this rule as far as I can
> >> see.
> >
> >
> > If no networks are declared trusted, SA will attempt to auto-detect.
> >
> > You can't, and don't want, to have no trusted hosts at all. That
> > condition would break lots of things, including whitelist_from_rcvd.
>
> Just to clarify on what Matt said, you need and want (really, you do) to
> trust the actual mail server itself.  SA sees the message after the
> local server's header is added, so you need to add the IP of that
> machine (that appears in the header).
>
> Whatever you do, don't 'fix' it by setting ALL_TRUSTED to 0.
> ALL_TRUSTED isn't the only thing that relies on a properly configured
> trust path.  DNSBLs won't work correctly (both to and against your
> advantage) either.
>
>
> Daryl
>

This looks like another "reserved IP" issue, as discussed in this thread:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.mail.spam.spamassassin.general/62078

If you look at the original received header, it shows an IP address of
71.8.202.198, which spamassassin sees as a reserved, and thus trusted, IP.
The above-referenced thread includes a fix for this issue.

Sandy


Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Posted by Matthew Newton <mc...@leicester.ac.uk>.
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 12:23:10PM -0500, Daryl C. W. O'Shea wrote:
> Matthew Newton wrote:
> >OK, thanks. I still have problems exactly understanding the difference
> >between trusted_networks and internal_networks is, though. My
> >understanding is that trusted_networks is our entire ip address range,
> >all hosts (143.210.0.0/16), and internal_networks is mail servers that
> >we run? There are lots of mail servers, some of which I don't know
> >about, and all machines can potentially send mail by connecting to our
> >servers, so should I set this to 143.210. as well? (still remembering,
> >of course, that SA is not scoring internal messages or those on the way
> >out).
> 
> Correct (trusted vs. internal).
> 
> Since, in your setup, SA only sees external mail, you don't need to 
> worry about adding your other (possibly unknown) mail servers to 
> internal networks.  Same goes for trusted hosts.  The only thing you 
> need to worry about is your IP(s) that incoming external mail passes 
> through.  Add them to trusted & internal networks.

Great! That works, thanks!

Matthew

-- 
Matthew Newton <mc...@le.ac.uk>

UNIX and e-mail Systems Administrator, Network Support Section,
Computer Centre, University of Leicester,
Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Posted by "Daryl C. W. O'Shea" <sp...@dostech.ca>.
Matthew Newton wrote:
> OK, thanks. I still have problems exactly understanding the difference
> between trusted_networks and internal_networks is, though. My
> understanding is that trusted_networks is our entire ip address range,
> all hosts (143.210.0.0/16), and internal_networks is mail servers that
> we run? There are lots of mail servers, some of which I don't know
> about, and all machines can potentially send mail by connecting to our
> servers, so should I set this to 143.210. as well? (still remembering,
> of course, that SA is not scoring internal messages or those on the way
> out).

Correct (trusted vs. internal).

Since, in your setup, SA only sees external mail, you don't need to 
worry about adding your other (possibly unknown) mail servers to 
internal networks.  Same goes for trusted hosts.  The only thing you 
need to worry about is your IP(s) that incoming external mail passes 
through.  Add them to trusted & internal networks.


Daryl


Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Posted by Matt Kettler <mk...@evi-inc.com>.
At 12:04 PM 3/4/2005, Matthew Newton wrote:
>OK, thanks. I still have problems exactly understanding the difference
>between trusted_networks and internal_networks is, though. My
>understanding is that trusted_networks is our entire ip address range,
>all hosts (143.210.0.0/16), and internal_networks is mail servers that
>we run?

 From what the doc's say, that's correct.

Trusted = trusted to not forge headers, and not originate spam, but might 
relay spam (ie: as an MX). Trusted IPs are also exempted from DNSBL checks.

Internal = a mail relay. Used in whitelist_from_rcvd checks, and in 
checking DUL's and other "direct-to-mx" type spam RBLs.

If you only set one of the two, the other will copy it's value and the two 
will be the same.

I think this clip from the manpage summarizes it well:
"MXes for your domain(s) and internal relays should also be specified using 
the internal_networks setting. When there are 'trusted' hosts that are not 
MXes or internal relays for your domain(s) they should only be specified in 
trusted_networks. "



Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Posted by Matthew Newton <mc...@leicester.ac.uk>.
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 11:57:37AM -0500, Daryl C. W. O'Shea wrote:
> Matt Kettler wrote:
> >At 10:23 AM 3/4/2005, Matthew Newton wrote:
> >
> >>Just had a spam arrive that was given a -3.3 score for "ALL_TRUSTED".
> >>Funny thing is that my local.cf contains the following:
> >>
> >>  # we trust our local network
> >>  # removed: sa never used for internal originating spam.
> >>  clear_trusted_networks
> >>  #trusted_networks 143.210.
> >>  #internal_networks 143.210.
> >>
> >If no networks are declared trusted, SA will attempt to auto-detect.
> >
> >You can't, and don't want, to have no trusted hosts at all. That 
> >condition would break lots of things, including whitelist_from_rcvd.
> 
> Just to clarify on what Matt said, you need and want (really, you do) to 
> trust the actual mail server itself.  SA sees the message after the 
> local server's header is added, so you need to add the IP of that 
> machine (that appears in the header).
> 
> Whatever you do, don't 'fix' it by setting ALL_TRUSTED to 0. 
> ALL_TRUSTED isn't the only thing that relies on a properly configured 
> trust path.  DNSBLs won't work correctly (both to and against your 
> advantage) either.

OK, thanks. I still have problems exactly understanding the difference
between trusted_networks and internal_networks is, though. My
understanding is that trusted_networks is our entire ip address range,
all hosts (143.210.0.0/16), and internal_networks is mail servers that
we run? There are lots of mail servers, some of which I don't know
about, and all machines can potentially send mail by connecting to our
servers, so should I set this to 143.210. as well? (still remembering,
of course, that SA is not scoring internal messages or those on the way
out).

Thanks

-- 
Matthew Newton <mc...@le.ac.uk>

UNIX and e-mail Systems Administrator, Network Support Section,
Computer Centre, University of Leicester,
Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Posted by "Daryl C. W. O'Shea" <sp...@dostech.ca>.
Matt Kettler wrote:
> At 10:23 AM 3/4/2005, Matthew Newton wrote:
> 
>> Just had a spam arrive that was given a -3.3 score for "ALL_TRUSTED".
>> Funny thing is that my local.cf contains the following:
>>
>>   # we trust our local network
>>   # removed: sa never used for internal originating spam.
>>   clear_trusted_networks
>>   #trusted_networks 143.210.
>>   #internal_networks 143.210.
>>
>> because I commented the lines out a couple of months or more ago. SA is
>> only run (using exiscan) for messages coming in to our network from
>> external hosts, so it should never fire on this rule as far as I can
>> see.
> 
> 
> If no networks are declared trusted, SA will attempt to auto-detect.
> 
> You can't, and don't want, to have no trusted hosts at all. That 
> condition would break lots of things, including whitelist_from_rcvd.

Just to clarify on what Matt said, you need and want (really, you do) to 
trust the actual mail server itself.  SA sees the message after the 
local server's header is added, so you need to add the IP of that 
machine (that appears in the header).

Whatever you do, don't 'fix' it by setting ALL_TRUSTED to 0. 
ALL_TRUSTED isn't the only thing that relies on a properly configured 
trust path.  DNSBLs won't work correctly (both to and against your 
advantage) either.


Daryl


Re: ALL_TRUSTED rule hit, but haven't set any trusted networks

Posted by Matt Kettler <mk...@comcast.net>.
At 10:23 AM 3/4/2005, Matthew Newton wrote:
>Just had a spam arrive that was given a -3.3 score for "ALL_TRUSTED".
>Funny thing is that my local.cf contains the following:
>
>   # we trust our local network
>   # removed: sa never used for internal originating spam.
>   clear_trusted_networks
>   #trusted_networks 143.210.
>   #internal_networks 143.210.
>
>because I commented the lines out a couple of months or more ago. SA is
>only run (using exiscan) for messages coming in to our network from
>external hosts, so it should never fire on this rule as far as I can
>see.

If no networks are declared trusted, SA will attempt to auto-detect.

You can't, and don't want, to have no trusted hosts at all. That condition 
would break lots of things, including whitelist_from_rcvd.