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Posted to dev@mesos.apache.org by Andrew Schwartzmeyer <an...@schwartzmeyer.com> on 2018/05/09 18:51:26 UTC

Deprecating the Python bindings

Hi all,

There are two parallel efforts underway that would both benefit from 
officially deprecating (and then removing) the Python bindings. The 
first effort is the move to the CMake system: adding support to generate 
the Python bindings was investigated but paused (see MESOS-8118), and 
the second effort is the move to Python 3: producing Python 3 compatible 
bindings is under investigation but not in progress (see MESOS-7163).

Benjamin Bannier, Joseph Wu, and I have all at some point just wondered 
how the community would fare if the Python bindings were officially 
deprecated and removed. So please, if this would negatively impact you 
or your project, let me know in this thread.

Thanks,

Andrew Schwartzmeyer

Re: Deprecating the Python bindings

Posted by Armand Grillet <ag...@mesosphere.io>.

Hi all,

We now have ongoing work to update all our Python components to Python 3
except for the bindings. We have taken care of the build system to work
with both the Python 2 and 3 codebase thus the bindings do not need to be
deprecated/updated before Python 2 EOL (i.e. 2020, and even then I do not
know if an update will be necessary).

I thus do not think that we need to deprecate or move the bindings to a
separate repo. However, the fact that the bindings are not maintained is a
problem. The code to build them is not straightforward
<https://github.com/apache/mesos/blob/d733b1031350e03bce443aa287044eb4eee1053a/configure.ac#L2256-L2558>
and I do not know anyone who has the time or interest to update or simplify
the process in the future.

Le mer. 6 juin 2018 à 20:13, James Peach <jp...@apache.org> a écrit :

>
> > On May 9, 2018, at 11:51 AM, Andrew Schwartzmeyer <
> andrew@schwartzmeyer.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There are two parallel efforts underway that would both benefit from
> officially deprecating (and then removing) the Python bindings. The first
> effort is the move to the CMake system: adding support to generate the
> Python bindings was investigated but paused (see MESOS-8118), and the
> second effort is the move to Python 3: producing Python 3 compatible
> bindings is under investigation but not in progress (see MESOS-7163).
> >
> > Benjamin Bannier, Joseph Wu, and I have all at some point just wondered
> how the community would fare if the Python bindings were officially
> deprecated and removed. So please, if this would negatively impact you or
> your project, let me know in this thread.
>
> Another approach could be to move the bindings from the `mesos` git repo
> to a separate repo (either the ASF or in the `mesos` GitHub org). This
> could decouple it from the main Mesos build infrastructure and create a
> project for a Python community to coalesce around. I think there's value in
> nominating an official Python binding, but maybe we don't have to carry
> that in the same git repo and build system.
>
> J

-- 
Armand Grillet
Software Engineer, Mesosphere

Re: Deprecating the Python bindings

Posted by James Peach <jp...@apache.org>.

> On May 9, 2018, at 11:51 AM, Andrew Schwartzmeyer <an...@schwartzmeyer.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> There are two parallel efforts underway that would both benefit from officially deprecating (and then removing) the Python bindings. The first effort is the move to the CMake system: adding support to generate the Python bindings was investigated but paused (see MESOS-8118), and the second effort is the move to Python 3: producing Python 3 compatible bindings is under investigation but not in progress (see MESOS-7163).
> 
> Benjamin Bannier, Joseph Wu, and I have all at some point just wondered how the community would fare if the Python bindings were officially deprecated and removed. So please, if this would negatively impact you or your project, let me know in this thread.

Another approach could be to move the bindings from the `mesos` git repo to a separate repo (either the ASF or in the `mesos` GitHub org). This could decouple it from the main Mesos build infrastructure and create a project for a Python community to coalesce around. I think there's value in nominating an official Python binding, but maybe we don't have to carry that in the same git repo and build system.

J

Re: Deprecating the Python bindings

Posted by Vinod Kone <vi...@apache.org>.

One of the production users that I know who used to depend on python
bindings were https://github.com/douban.

Also, apache aurora used to have an executor that depended on python
bindings.

I don't know what their dependencies are these days w.r.t python bindings.

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 11:51 AM, Andrew Schwartzmeyer <
andrew@schwartzmeyer.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> There are two parallel efforts underway that would both benefit from
> officially deprecating (and then removing) the Python bindings. The first
> effort is the move to the CMake system: adding support to generate the
> Python bindings was investigated but paused (see MESOS-8118), and the
> second effort is the move to Python 3: producing Python 3 compatible
> bindings is under investigation but not in progress (see MESOS-7163).
>
> Benjamin Bannier, Joseph Wu, and I have all at some point just wondered
> how the community would fare if the Python bindings were officially
> deprecated and removed. So please, if this would negatively impact you or
> your project, let me know in this thread.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew Schwartzmeyer
>

Re: Deprecating the Python bindings

Posted by Vinod Kone <vi...@apache.org>.

One of the production users that I know who used to depend on python
bindings were https://github.com/douban.

Also, apache aurora used to have an executor that depended on python
bindings.

I don't know what their dependencies are these days w.r.t python bindings.

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 11:51 AM, Andrew Schwartzmeyer <
andrew@schwartzmeyer.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> There are two parallel efforts underway that would both benefit from
> officially deprecating (and then removing) the Python bindings. The first
> effort is the move to the CMake system: adding support to generate the
> Python bindings was investigated but paused (see MESOS-8118), and the
> second effort is the move to Python 3: producing Python 3 compatible
> bindings is under investigation but not in progress (see MESOS-7163).
>
> Benjamin Bannier, Joseph Wu, and I have all at some point just wondered
> how the community would fare if the Python bindings were officially
> deprecated and removed. So please, if this would negatively impact you or
> your project, let me know in this thread.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew Schwartzmeyer
>

Re: Deprecating the Python bindings

Posted by Javi Roman <jr...@gmail.com>.

Andrew,

Is it one of the reasons for deprecating this binding the lack of
interest of Mesos community? If the answer is yes, let me try to boost
the maintenance of this biding.


--
Javi Roman

Twitter: @javiromanrh
GitHub: github.com/javiroman
Linkedin: es.linkedin.com/in/javiroman
Big Data Blog: dataintensive.info
Apache Id: javiroman
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 1:18 PM Heer, Christoph <ch...@sap.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> within SAP, we still use the Python bindings for our own productive Mesos framework. There a multiple different pure Python implementations available but especially this wide choice, different capabilities, unclear update frequencies, available documentation and mixed quality makes the switch hard and brings a lot of uncertainties. With the Python binding we had always a reliable pice software that was part of Mesos and therefore covered somehow with testing and included in release decisions.
>
> I understand the motivation behind the deprecation and removal. But I'm afraid of the drop of the 'official' Python bind as it will probably deter people to build Mesos frameworks with Python. Maybe it would make sense to promote one implementation as recommended and include it into testing and release decisions but I see also the point to give flexibility and choices.
>
> Best regards,
> Christoph
>
>
>
> Christoph Heer, SAP SE, Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16, 69190 Walldorf, Germany
> Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office: Walldorf, Germany
>
> Vorstand/SAP Executive Board: Bill McDermott (CEO), Robert Enslin, Adaire Fox-Martin, Christian Klein,
> Michael Kleinemeier, Bernd Leukert, Jennifer Morgan, Luka Mucic, Stefan Ries
> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairperson of the SAP Supervisory Board: Hasso Plattner
> Registergericht/Commercial Register Mannheim HRB 719915
>
> This e-mail may contain trade secrets or privileged, undisclosed, or otherwise
> confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error, you are hereby
> notified that any review, copying, or distribution of it is strictly prohibited. Please inform
> us immediately and destroy the original transmittal. Thank you for your cooperation.

Re: Deprecating the Python bindings

Posted by Javi Roman <jr...@gmail.com>.

Andrew,

Is it one of the reasons for deprecating this binding the lack of
interest of Mesos community? If the answer is yes, let me try to boost
the maintenance of this biding.


--
Javi Roman

Twitter: @javiromanrh
GitHub: github.com/javiroman
Linkedin: es.linkedin.com/in/javiroman
Big Data Blog: dataintensive.info
Apache Id: javiroman
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 1:18 PM Heer, Christoph <ch...@sap.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> within SAP, we still use the Python bindings for our own productive Mesos framework. There a multiple different pure Python implementations available but especially this wide choice, different capabilities, unclear update frequencies, available documentation and mixed quality makes the switch hard and brings a lot of uncertainties. With the Python binding we had always a reliable pice software that was part of Mesos and therefore covered somehow with testing and included in release decisions.
>
> I understand the motivation behind the deprecation and removal. But I'm afraid of the drop of the 'official' Python bind as it will probably deter people to build Mesos frameworks with Python. Maybe it would make sense to promote one implementation as recommended and include it into testing and release decisions but I see also the point to give flexibility and choices.
>
> Best regards,
> Christoph
>
>
>
> Christoph Heer, SAP SE, Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16, 69190 Walldorf, Germany
> Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office: Walldorf, Germany
>
> Vorstand/SAP Executive Board: Bill McDermott (CEO), Robert Enslin, Adaire Fox-Martin, Christian Klein,
> Michael Kleinemeier, Bernd Leukert, Jennifer Morgan, Luka Mucic, Stefan Ries
> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairperson of the SAP Supervisory Board: Hasso Plattner
> Registergericht/Commercial Register Mannheim HRB 719915
>
> This e-mail may contain trade secrets or privileged, undisclosed, or otherwise
> confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error, you are hereby
> notified that any review, copying, or distribution of it is strictly prohibited. Please inform
> us immediately and destroy the original transmittal. Thank you for your cooperation.

Re: Deprecating the Python bindings

Posted by "Heer, Christoph" <ch...@sap.com>.

Hi,

within SAP, we still use the Python bindings for our own productive Mesos framework. There a multiple different pure Python implementations available but especially this wide choice, different capabilities, unclear update frequencies, available documentation and mixed quality makes the switch hard and brings a lot of uncertainties. With the Python binding we had always a reliable pice software that was part of Mesos and therefore covered somehow with testing and included in release decisions.

I understand the motivation behind the deprecation and removal. But I'm afraid of the drop of the 'official' Python bind as it will probably deter people to build Mesos frameworks with Python. Maybe it would make sense to promote one implementation as recommended and include it into testing and release decisions but I see also the point to give flexibility and choices.

Best regards,
Christoph

Christoph Heer, SAP SE, Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16, 69190 Walldorf, Germany
Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office: Walldorf, Germany

Vorstand/SAP Executive Board: Bill McDermott (CEO), Robert Enslin, Adaire Fox-Martin, Christian Klein,
Michael Kleinemeier, Bernd Leukert, Jennifer Morgan, Luka Mucic, Stefan Ries
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairperson of the SAP Supervisory Board: Hasso Plattner
Registergericht/Commercial Register Mannheim HRB 719915

This e-mail may contain trade secrets or privileged, undisclosed, or otherwise
confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error, you are hereby
notified that any review, copying, or distribution of it is strictly prohibited. Please inform
us immediately and destroy the original transmittal. Thank you for your cooperation.

Re: Deprecating the Python bindings

Posted by James Peach <jp...@apache.org>.

> On May 9, 2018, at 11:51 AM, Andrew Schwartzmeyer <an...@schwartzmeyer.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> There are two parallel efforts underway that would both benefit from officially deprecating (and then removing) the Python bindings. The first effort is the move to the CMake system: adding support to generate the Python bindings was investigated but paused (see MESOS-8118), and the second effort is the move to Python 3: producing Python 3 compatible bindings is under investigation but not in progress (see MESOS-7163).
> 
> Benjamin Bannier, Joseph Wu, and I have all at some point just wondered how the community would fare if the Python bindings were officially deprecated and removed. So please, if this would negatively impact you or your project, let me know in this thread.

Another approach could be to move the bindings from the `mesos` git repo to a separate repo (either the ASF or in the `mesos` GitHub org). This could decouple it from the main Mesos build infrastructure and create a project for a Python community to coalesce around. I think there's value in nominating an official Python binding, but maybe we don't have to carry that in the same git repo and build system.

J

Re: Deprecating the Python bindings

Posted by "Heer, Christoph" <ch...@sap.com>.

Hi,

Best regards,
Christoph

Christoph Heer, SAP SE, Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16, 69190 Walldorf, Germany
Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office: Walldorf, Germany