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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> on 2011/06/27 14:28:33 UTC
Top level question on website migration
Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to Apache,
we remove redirects.
2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As services
are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
#1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
complicate things?
If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
straightforward.
-Rob
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 06/27/2011 07:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
>> >>>>>>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
>> >>>>>>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to
>> Oracle's
>> >>>>>>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to
>> >> Apache,
>> >>>>>>> we remove redirects.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the
>> Apache
>> >>>>>> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is
>> "up"
>> >> on
>> >>>>>> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is
>> available
>> >>>>>> via
>> >>>>>> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
>> >>>>>> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
>> >>>>>> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
>> >>>>>> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in
>> >> order.
>> >>>>>> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a
>> >> reasonable
>> >>>>>> schedule.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect
>> business.
>> >>>>>> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
>> >>>>>> everything.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on
>> >> parts
>> >>>>>> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
>> >>>>>> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not
>> doing
>> >>>>>> much
>> >>>>>> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated
>> on
>> >> the
>> >>>>>> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really
>> have
>> >> NO
>> >>>>>> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at the
>> >>>>>> moment.
>> >>>>>> This would be interesting to find out.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also
>> wonder
>> >>>>> what
>> >>>>> is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI?
>> Who
>> >>>>> choosed that template?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Not sure how to answer this since I don't even know if it HAS a
>> >> template.
>> >>>> ????
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Since I know little about kenai, I don't know anything about it
>> handles
>> >>>> templates, but the site looks pretty much the same as it did before
>> the
>> >>>> move.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> idea to simply change it as please.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The site uses ssh+svn (svn with ssh tunneling) see:
>> >>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/SourceControl
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You need your own private ssh key uploaded through your OO.o private
>> >> key.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If you have your own OO.o ID and login, you should be able to see
>> what
>> >>>> projects you are a member of and what rights you have to them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the direction
>> of
>> >>>>> that
>> >>>>> site.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Well...it's my understanding that eventually it will cease to exist,
>> at
>> >>>> some point yet to be determined. Thus, we need to put whatever effort
>> we
>> >> can
>> >>>> into this new Apache endeavor.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo new
>> >> site:
>> >>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>> >>>
>> >>> I think this one is set up here:
>> >>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/
>> >>>
>> >>> It seems to have some perl(?) scripts:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/lib/view.pm?revision=1137122&view=markup
>> >>>
>> >>> Not sure if its using a framework or just random perl scripts holding
>> >> things
>> >>> somewhat automated. From what I see there are some Templates setup:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/templates/skeleton.html?revision=1137122&view=markup
>> >>
>> >> That is the template. The css is here:
>> >> incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ooo.css
>> >>
>> >
>> > What about the rest of the questions:
>> > - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>>
>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that there are
>> plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server, but I think
>> that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about user support ideas and
>> your response has me thinking Open Social.
>>
>> > - What is the direction of this site?
>>
>> I think we build it and move it around. My thought is that we build the
>> new Apache OpenOffice replacement for openoffice.org at
>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/www/ with the mdtext at
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/www/
>>
>> I think that the initial OpenOffice landing page is pretty nicely done.
>>
>> > - Who decided on this template?
>>
>> It was copied from another podling. Feel free to make adjustments under
>> lazy consensus.
>>
>> I did find the following:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms/conversion-utilities/cwiki/README.txt
>>
>> So, we can develop content on OOODEV and then convert it to markdown. This
>> would be good to know and test.
>>
>
> Should we just import the original OOo Theme?
>
> I am aware the difference CSS changes that would need to be made but this
> was done for MediaWiki and Drupal already. So I dont see any reason why the
> Apache cms (OOo@Apache) wouldnt.
>
These are the basic structures of the website (Stylesheet, Images and JS)
html template was handled somewhere else:
http://asset-1.openoffice.org/branding/kenai/
>
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Dave
>> >>
>> >>> On Kenai, it did had the tigris template, which we drag from
>> Collabnet,
>> >> and
>> >>> the CSS had some major change to it spreading it across 6 different
>> >>> stylesheets (before it was only one). And there were of course a
>> template
>> >>> use on most of the projects. BizDev and Education tried a tableless
>> CSS
>> >>> which never made it to production.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers
>> and
>> >>>>>>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As
>> >> services
>> >>>>>>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
>> >>>>>>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time
>> >> being.
>> >>>>>> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be
>> >> desirable.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
>> >>>>>>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace
>> of
>> >>>>>>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need
>> to
>> >>>>>>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
>> >>>>>>> complicate things?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we
>> couldn't
>> >>>>>>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to
>> be a
>> >>>>>>> straightforward.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the
>> list
>> >> on
>> >>>>>> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -Rob
>>
>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/27/2011 07:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
>>>>>>>>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
>>>>>>>>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to
>> Oracle's
>>>>>>>>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to
>>>> Apache,
>>>>>>>>> we remove redirects.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the Apache
>>>>>>>> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is
>> "up"
>>>> on
>>>>>>>> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is
>> available
>>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
>>>>>>>> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
>>>>>>>> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
>>>>>>>> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in
>>>> order.
>>>>>>>> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a
>>>> reasonable
>>>>>>>> schedule.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect business.
>>>>>>>> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
>>>>>>>> everything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on
>>>> parts
>>>>>>>> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
>>>>>>>> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not
>> doing
>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated on
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really
>> have
>>>> NO
>>>>>>>> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at the
>>>>>>>> moment.
>>>>>>>> This would be interesting to find out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also
>> wonder
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI? Who
>>>>>>> choosed that template?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure how to answer this since I don't even know if it HAS a
>>>> template.
>>>>>> ????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since I know little about kenai, I don't know anything about it
>> handles
>>>>>> templates, but the site looks pretty much the same as it did before
>> the
>>>>>> move.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> idea to simply change it as please.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The site uses ssh+svn (svn with ssh tunneling) see:
>>>>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/SourceControl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need your own private ssh key uploaded through your OO.o private
>>>> key.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have your own OO.o ID and login, you should be able to see what
>>>>>> projects you are a member of and what rights you have to them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the direction
>> of
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> site.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well...it's my understanding that eventually it will cease to exist,
>> at
>>>>>> some point yet to be determined. Thus, we need to put whatever effort
>> we
>>>> can
>>>>>> into this new Apache endeavor.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo new
>>>> site:
>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this one is set up here:
>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to have some perl(?) scripts:
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/lib/view.pm?revision=1137122&view=markup
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure if its using a framework or just random perl scripts holding
>>>> things
>>>>> somewhat automated. From what I see there are some Templates setup:
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/templates/skeleton.html?revision=1137122&view=markup
>>>>
>>>> That is the template. The css is here:
>>>> incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ooo.css
>>>>
>>>
>>> What about the rest of the questions:
>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>>
>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that there are
>> plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server, but I think
>> that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about user support ideas and
>> your response has me thinking Open Social.
>>
>>> - What is the direction of this site?
>>
>> I think we build it and move it around. My thought is that we build the new
>> Apache OpenOffice replacement for openoffice.org at
>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/www/ with the mdtext at
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/www/
>>
>> I think that the initial OpenOffice landing page is pretty nicely done.
>>
>>> - Who decided on this template?
>>
>> It was copied from another podling. Feel free to make adjustments under
>> lazy consensus.
>>
>> I did find the following:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms/conversion-utilities/cwiki/README.txt
>>
>> So, we can develop content on OOODEV and then convert it to markdown. This
>> would be good to know and test.
>>
>
> Should we just import the original OOo Theme?
Yes, but I think we should look first and then copy it.
> I am aware the difference CSS changes that would need to be made but this
> was done for MediaWiki and Drupal already. So I dont see any reason why the
> Apache cms (OOo@Apache) wouldnt.
I don't see why it couldn't be done with Confluence as well. If you would share the current OOo template and css code in the confluence wiki as attachments or inline via {code} blocks, we can compare with the simple template already in place and then convert.
Regards,
Dave
>
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>> On Kenai, it did had the tigris template, which we drag from Collabnet,
>>>> and
>>>>> the CSS had some major change to it spreading it across 6 different
>>>>> stylesheets (before it was only one). And there were of course a
>> template
>>>>> use on most of the projects. BizDev and Education tried a tableless CSS
>>>>> which never made it to production.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers
>> and
>>>>>>>>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As
>>>> services
>>>>>>>>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
>>>>>>>>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time
>>>> being.
>>>>>>>> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be
>>>> desirable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
>>>>>>>>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace
>> of
>>>>>>>>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need
>> to
>>>>>>>>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
>>>>>>>>> complicate things?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
>>>>>>>>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be
>> a
>>>>>>>>> straightforward.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the
>> list
>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> MzK
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good
>>>> stuff,
>>>>>>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>>>>>>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>>>>>>>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> MzK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good
>> stuff,
>>>>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>>>>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>>>>>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Alexandro Colorado*
>>>>> *OpenOffice.org* Español
>>>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Alexandro Colorado*
>>> *OpenOffice.org* Español
>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Alexandro Colorado*
> *OpenOffice.org* Español
> http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 06/27/2011 07:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
> >>>>>>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
> >>>>>>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to
> Oracle's
> >>>>>>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to
> >> Apache,
> >>>>>>> we remove redirects.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the Apache
> >>>>>> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is
> "up"
> >> on
> >>>>>> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is
> available
> >>>>>> via
> >>>>>> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
> >>>>>> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
> >>>>>> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
> >>>>>> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in
> >> order.
> >>>>>> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a
> >> reasonable
> >>>>>> schedule.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect business.
> >>>>>> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
> >>>>>> everything.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on
> >> parts
> >>>>>> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
> >>>>>> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not
> doing
> >>>>>> much
> >>>>>> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated on
> >> the
> >>>>>> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really
> have
> >> NO
> >>>>>> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at the
> >>>>>> moment.
> >>>>>> This would be interesting to find out.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also
> wonder
> >>>>> what
> >>>>> is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI? Who
> >>>>> choosed that template?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Not sure how to answer this since I don't even know if it HAS a
> >> template.
> >>>> ????
> >>>>
> >>>> Since I know little about kenai, I don't know anything about it
> handles
> >>>> templates, but the site looks pretty much the same as it did before
> the
> >>>> move.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
> >>>>
> >>>>> idea to simply change it as please.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The site uses ssh+svn (svn with ssh tunneling) see:
> >>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/SourceControl
> >>>>
> >>>> You need your own private ssh key uploaded through your OO.o private
> >> key.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you have your own OO.o ID and login, you should be able to see what
> >>>> projects you are a member of and what rights you have to them.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the direction
> of
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> site.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Well...it's my understanding that eventually it will cease to exist,
> at
> >>>> some point yet to be determined. Thus, we need to put whatever effort
> we
> >> can
> >>>> into this new Apache endeavor.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo new
> >> site:
> >>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
> >>>
> >>> I think this one is set up here:
> >>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/
> >>>
> >>> It seems to have some perl(?) scripts:
> >>>
> >>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/lib/view.pm?revision=1137122&view=markup
> >>>
> >>> Not sure if its using a framework or just random perl scripts holding
> >> things
> >>> somewhat automated. From what I see there are some Templates setup:
> >>>
> >>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/templates/skeleton.html?revision=1137122&view=markup
> >>
> >> That is the template. The css is here:
> >> incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ooo.css
> >>
> >
> > What about the rest of the questions:
> > - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>
> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that there are
> plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server, but I think
> that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about user support ideas and
> your response has me thinking Open Social.
>
> > - What is the direction of this site?
>
> I think we build it and move it around. My thought is that we build the new
> Apache OpenOffice replacement for openoffice.org at
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/www/ with the mdtext at
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/www/
>
> I think that the initial OpenOffice landing page is pretty nicely done.
>
> > - Who decided on this template?
>
> It was copied from another podling. Feel free to make adjustments under
> lazy consensus.
>
> I did find the following:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms/conversion-utilities/cwiki/README.txt
>
> So, we can develop content on OOODEV and then convert it to markdown. This
> would be good to know and test.
>
Should we just import the original OOo Theme?
I am aware the difference CSS changes that would need to be made but this
was done for MediaWiki and Drupal already. So I dont see any reason why the
Apache cms (OOo@Apache) wouldnt.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>> On Kenai, it did had the tigris template, which we drag from Collabnet,
> >> and
> >>> the CSS had some major change to it spreading it across 6 different
> >>> stylesheets (before it was only one). And there were of course a
> template
> >>> use on most of the projects. BizDev and Education tried a tableless CSS
> >>> which never made it to production.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers
> and
> >>>>>>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As
> >> services
> >>>>>>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
> >>>>>>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time
> >> being.
> >>>>>> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be
> >> desirable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
> >>>>>>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace
> of
> >>>>>>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need
> to
> >>>>>>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
> >>>>>>> complicate things?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
> >>>>>>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be
> a
> >>>>>>> straightforward.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the
> list
> >> on
> >>>>>> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Rob
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> MzK
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good
> >> stuff,
> >>>>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
> >>>>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
> >>>>>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> MzK
> >>>>
> >>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good
> stuff,
> >>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
> >>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
> >>>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> *Alexandro Colorado*
> >>> *OpenOffice.org* Español
> >>> http://es.openoffice.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Alexandro Colorado*
> > *OpenOffice.org* Español
> > http://es.openoffice.org
>
>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 27, 2011, at 2:10 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 5:04:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>
>> Gotcha. Whatever Web Interface needs to be narrow, well-defined, bullet proof
>> and well tested with a committed team behind it.
>
> Easier said than done IME. Writing client-side apps like OOo and writing
> public server-side apps are completely different animals. It's better to
> go without than to put up something that's poorly done IMO.
Yes, I had a very big learning curve ten years ago. I've project managed / led development of some B2B sites for the past 11 years.
I'm not bringing client side app writing chops to OOo, I'm bringing non-OOo document experience with PDF and MS Office. We generate such from our work websites. Creating and assembling content according to user's requests and producing PPT and PDF on the fly.
We've also done some development with Excel Plug-ins that talk to our website and exchange data.
I'm not afraid of it, but for this one we need to be very careful.
>> So, we at AOOo would have to prove we have the community and procedures in
>> place in order to get to this point.
>>
>> Whatever we might do starts on a private site, or in an approved Apache jail.
>> And if so the choices are here,
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/services.html#virtual-servers, correct?
>
> The solaris zone stuff is outdated. We've replaced zones with freebsd jails.
> Otherwise you'd get a vmware instance, and if it's linux you want we'd install
> ubuntu.
Glad I asked.
Regards,
Dave
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 5:04:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> Gotcha. Whatever Web Interface needs to be narrow, well-defined, bullet proof
>and well tested with a committed team behind it.
Easier said than done IME. Writing client-side apps like OOo and writing
public server-side apps are completely different animals. It's better to
go without than to put up something that's poorly done IMO.
> So, we at AOOo would have to prove we have the community and procedures in
>place in order to get to this point.
>
> Whatever we might do starts on a private site, or in an approved Apache jail.
>And if so the choices are here,
>http://www.apache.org/dev/services.html#virtual-servers, correct?
The solaris zone stuff is outdated. We've replaced zones with freebsd jails.
Otherwise you'd get a vmware instance, and if it's linux you want we'd install
ubuntu.
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----
>
>> From: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>> To: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>> Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:45:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>
>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer
>> <jo...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
>>>>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> What about the rest of the questions:
>>>>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
>>>>> server,
>>>>>>>>>> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
>>>>> about
>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported, eg
>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
>>>>>>>>> uses them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dynamic content is not supported.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Static content (however generated) is supported.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it possible to have some CRUD?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take advantage
>>>>>>> of what the CMS actually offers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't
> get
>>>>> it
>>>>>> connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
>>>>>
>>>>> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree. So
>>>>> no,
>>>>> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at
>> www.apache.orgwhich
>>>>> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So having a sign up sheet or a
>>>>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
>>>>> Subversion.
>>>>>
>>>>> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets. That's
>>>>> something
>>>>> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support
>> center
>>>>> is
>>>>> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on
> disk.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have missed
>>>> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with
>> Collbanet
>>>> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
>>>
>>> So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is
>> you.
>>> If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can
>>> demonstrate
>>> some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled
>> with
>>> chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a
>> jail/virtual os
>>> for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to make
>
>>> proper
>>> use of the CMS.
>>
>> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we
>> (AOOo)
>> decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of support hub
>> that
>> we have a big task that requires careful design and implementation.
>
> ... and periodic software maintenance.
Yes, time to upgrade my Tomcat servers at work. Thanks for the reminder :-)
>
>> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if only
>> slightly?
>
> No, that has nothing to do with it. Either the devs know how to write web-safe
> apps
> or they don't. apache.org sites carry a big bullseye on them from a script
> kiddie's
> standpoint, and the last time we were rooted the exploit vector was an XSS vuln
> in jira.
Gotcha. Whatever Web Interface needs to be narrow, well-defined, bullet proof and well tested with a committed team behind it.
So, we at AOOo would have to prove we have the community and procedures in place in order to get to this point.
Whatever we might do starts on a private site, or in an approved Apache jail. And if so the choices are here, http://www.apache.org/dev/services.html#virtual-servers, correct?
Thanks,
Dave
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> To: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:45:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >
> >> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer
><jo...@yahoo.com>wrote:
> >>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>
> >>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> >>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> >>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
> >>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> >>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> What about the rest of the questions:
> >>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
> >>> that
> >>>>> there
> >>>>>>>> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
> >>> server,
> >>>>>>>> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
> >>> about
> >>>>> user
> >>>>>>>> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported, eg
> >>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> >>>>>>> uses them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dynamic content is not supported.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Static content (however generated) is supported.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Is it possible to have some CRUD?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take advantage
> >>>>> of what the CMS actually offers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't
get
> >>> it
> >>>> connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
> >>>
> >>> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree. So
> >>> no,
> >>> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at
>www.apache.orgwhich
> >>> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
> >>>
> >>>> So having a sign up sheet or a
> >>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
> >>> Subversion.
> >>>
> >>> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets. That's
> >>> something
> >>> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support
>center
> >>> is
> >>> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on
disk.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have missed
> >> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with
>Collbanet
> >> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
> >
> > So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is
>you.
> > If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can
> > demonstrate
> > some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled
>with
> > chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a
>jail/virtual os
> > for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to make
> > proper
> > use of the CMS.
>
> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we
>(AOOo)
> decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of support hub
>that
> we have a big task that requires careful design and implementation.
... and periodic software maintenance.
> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if only
>slightly?
No, that has nothing to do with it. Either the devs know how to write web-safe
apps
or they don't. apache.org sites carry a big bullseye on them from a script
kiddie's
standpoint, and the last time we were rooted the exploit vector was an XSS vuln
in jira.
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 6:55:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> > None of what's done at Kenai or Collabnet has any bearing
> > on how the Apache CMS works. Did you know it's compatible
> > with httpd's content negotiation features, so you can serve
> > up custom pages for each language?
>
> What structure is needed in a CMS generated website to take advantage of
>multiple languages?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
To take advantage of content negotiation on say the home page,
here's what you'd do.
1) Ensure all links to the homepage reference the page as /openofficeorg/
or /openofficeorg/index (no .html extension).
2) create content/openofficeorg/index.$lang.mdtext , where $lang = en, es, etc.
3) optionally create custom per-lang templates and use path.pm to add a regexp
entry that ties each template name to a particular $lang.mdtext extension.
HTH
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 27, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> None of what's done at Kenai or Collabnet has any bearing
> on how the Apache CMS works. Did you know it's compatible
> with httpd's content negotiation features, so you can serve
> up custom pages for each language?
What structure is needed in a CMS generated website to take advantage of multiple languages?
Thanks,
Dave
>
>
>
>>
>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 6:12:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <
>>>>> joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
>>>>>>>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about the rest of the questions:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
>>>>>>>> server,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>>>>> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported, eg
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
>>>>>>>>>>>> uses them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dynamic content is not supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Static content (however generated) is supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is it possible to have some CRUD?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take
>>>>> advantage
>>>>>>>>>> of what the CMS actually offers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't
>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree.
>>>>> So
>>>>>>>> no,
>>>>>>>> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at
>>>>> www.apache.orgwhich
>>>>>>>> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So having a sign up sheet or a
>>>>>>>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
>>>>>>>> Subversion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets.
>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support
>>>>> center
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on
>>>>> disk.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have
>>>>> missed
>>>>>>> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with
>>>>> Collbanet
>>>>>>> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is
>>>>> you.
>>>>>> If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can
>>>>>> demonstrate
>>>>>> some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled
>>>>> with
>>>>>> chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a
>>>>> jail/virtual os
>>>>>> for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to
>>>>> make
>>>>>> proper
>>>>>> use of the CMS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we
>>>>> (AOOo) decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of
>>>>> support hub that we have a big task that requires careful design and
>>>>> implementation.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if
>>>>> only slightly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Alexandro, I really like your ideas that you expressed about linking OOo
>>>>> users instantly to a support network. Whatever might be developed by AOOo
> to
>>>>> do that will need to be very scalable. And if we mean dynamic then we
> aren't
>>>>> discussing mirrors so much.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to spend too much time talking about this simply because in
>>>> LibreOffice this topic was a huge and I mean HUGE flamewar that lasted
>>>> longer than a solar storm. Big +100 emails discussions, pretty scary
>>>> scenario.
>>>
>>> Understood. It does help to have specific examples so we really are talking
>>> about the same topic.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Leaving that war scar aside, I mean from a simple thing like managing menus
>>>> and contents (an all traditional HTML structure is horrible). Things from
>>>> news items, to just organizing and updating the menus on every page of the
>>>> site is a pain in the butt.
>>>
>>> Menus are in one place - sidenav.mdtext
>>>
>
> Right the issue becomes what happens when I need a localized menu and who has
> access to that chunk of data?
>
> Kenai and Collabnet both worked the same way, they had multiple chunks of HTML
> that could be modular, except the access was restricted and dialog was slow. So
> we never got arround the localization issue.
>
>
> If you look at http://es.openoffice.org you will see that is heavily modified
> and a lot of CSS-display: none was used so we could use what we needed.
> Obviously all this are hacks and what it shouldt be. Ideally we would have our
> own HTML chunk that we can modify as needed. Hopefully easier like a YAML
> structure.
>
>
>
>>> Special campaigns such as monthly web newsletters (in spanish of course). Or
>>> Localize project wide menus (something I remember was a big thing and we did
>>> intense JS hacking to skip that). Was some of the things that could have
>>> been fixed rather easily with few lines of PHP.
>>> I actually started to think on a planet setup (planetplanet written in
>>> python) which generate the whole page from scripts and spew HTML code
>>> everynight from different feeds. So I can script the whole site dynamically
>>> on my localbox (let say in Python) and scaffolde the site into a folder that
>>> sync with the server everynight.
>>
>> You can do that in your people.apache.org account and cron the site build in the
>> CMS.
>>
>>
>>> The issue here of course, is that if you have many maintainers this could
>>> become a problem, just re-writing the whole site everyday and integrating
>>> changes from other people everynight.
>>
>> Someone would need to delegate and if the person who does the cron disappears
>> then we have trouble and need to ask Infra to bypass, a real PITA.
>>
>> A problem for later. ONce we have scripts, maybe we can ask for a project
>> account on people to handle this.
>>
>> ooo-commits would then track the website changes as they semi-dynamically
> occur.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is a lot going on with Apache Lucene and Hadoop and their many
>>>> friends that could be put to use to build an OOo user live QA / social
>>>> network.
>>>>
>>>> But now I'm getting BIG. Would you mind describing a few of the
>>>> frustrations that you had with Collabnet?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Alexandro Colorado*
>>> *OpenOffice.org* Español
>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> OpenOffice.org Español
>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>
>>
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
None of what's done at Kenai or Collabnet has any bearing
on how the Apache CMS works. Did you know it's compatible
with httpd's content negotiation features, so you can serve
up custom pages for each language?
>
>From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Cc: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 6:12:07 PM
>Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>On Jun 27, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <
>>>> joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
>>>>>>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about the rest of the questions:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
>>>>>>> server,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>>>> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported, eg
>>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
>>>>>>>>>>> uses them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dynamic content is not supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Static content (however generated) is supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it possible to have some CRUD?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take
>>>> advantage
>>>>>>>>> of what the CMS actually offers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't
>>>> get
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree.
>>>> So
>>>>>>> no,
>>>>>>> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at
>>>> www.apache.orgwhich
>>>>>>> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So having a sign up sheet or a
>>>>>>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
>>>>>>> Subversion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets.
>>>> That's
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support
>>>> center
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on
>>>> disk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have
>>>> missed
>>>>>> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with
>>>> Collbanet
>>>>>> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is
>>>> you.
>>>>> If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can
>>>>> demonstrate
>>>>> some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled
>>>> with
>>>>> chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a
>>>> jail/virtual os
>>>>> for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to
>>>> make
>>>>> proper
>>>>> use of the CMS.
>>>>
>>>> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we
>>>> (AOOo) decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of
>>>> support hub that we have a big task that requires careful design and
>>>> implementation.
>>>>
>>>> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if
>>>> only slightly?
>>>>
>>>> Alexandro, I really like your ideas that you expressed about linking OOo
>>>> users instantly to a support network. Whatever might be developed by AOOo
to
>>>> do that will need to be very scalable. And if we mean dynamic then we
aren't
>>>> discussing mirrors so much.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't want to spend too much time talking about this simply because in
>>> LibreOffice this topic was a huge and I mean HUGE flamewar that lasted
>>> longer than a solar storm. Big +100 emails discussions, pretty scary
>>> scenario.
>>
>>Understood. It does help to have specific examples so we really are talking
>>about the same topic.
>>
>>>
>>> Leaving that war scar aside, I mean from a simple thing like managing menus
>>> and contents (an all traditional HTML structure is horrible). Things from
>>> news items, to just organizing and updating the menus on every page of the
>>> site is a pain in the butt.
>>
>>Menus are in one place - sidenav.mdtext
>>
Right the issue becomes what happens when I need a localized menu and who has
access to that chunk of data?
Kenai and Collabnet both worked the same way, they had multiple chunks of HTML
that could be modular, except the access was restricted and dialog was slow. So
we never got arround the localization issue.
If you look at http://es.openoffice.org you will see that is heavily modified
and a lot of CSS-display: none was used so we could use what we needed.
Obviously all this are hacks and what it shouldt be. Ideally we would have our
own HTML chunk that we can modify as needed. Hopefully easier like a YAML
structure.
>> Special campaigns such as monthly web newsletters (in spanish of course). Or
>> Localize project wide menus (something I remember was a big thing and we did
>> intense JS hacking to skip that). Was some of the things that could have
>> been fixed rather easily with few lines of PHP.
>> I actually started to think on a planet setup (planetplanet written in
>> python) which generate the whole page from scripts and spew HTML code
>> everynight from different feeds. So I can script the whole site dynamically
>> on my localbox (let say in Python) and scaffolde the site into a folder that
>> sync with the server everynight.
>
>You can do that in your people.apache.org account and cron the site build in the
>CMS.
>
>
>> The issue here of course, is that if you have many maintainers this could
>> become a problem, just re-writing the whole site everyday and integrating
>> changes from other people everynight.
>
>Someone would need to delegate and if the person who does the cron disappears
>then we have trouble and need to ask Infra to bypass, a real PITA.
>
>A problem for later. ONce we have scripts, maybe we can ask for a project
>account on people to handle this.
>
>ooo-commits would then track the website changes as they semi-dynamically
occur.
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> There is a lot going on with Apache Lucene and Hadoop and their many
>>> friends that could be put to use to build an OOo user live QA / social
>>> network.
>>>
>>> But now I'm getting BIG. Would you mind describing a few of the
>>> frustrations that you had with Collabnet?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Alexandro Colorado*
>> *OpenOffice.org* Español
>> http://es.openoffice.org
>
>
>
>
>--
>Alexandro Colorado
>OpenOffice.org Español
>http://es.openoffice.org
>
>
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> >>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>
> >>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> >>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> >>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <
> >> joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> >>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
> >>>>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> What about the rest of the questions:
> >>>>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby
> backend)?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>>> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
> >>>>> server,
> >>>>>>>>>> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
> >>>>> about
> >>>>>>> user
> >>>>>>>>>> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported, eg
> >>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> >>>>>>>>> uses them.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Dynamic content is not supported.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Static content (however generated) is supported.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Is it possible to have some CRUD?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take
> >> advantage
> >>>>>>> of what the CMS actually offers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't
> >> get
> >>>>> it
> >>>>>> connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree.
> >> So
> >>>>> no,
> >>>>> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at
> >> www.apache.orgwhich
> >>>>> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> So having a sign up sheet or a
> >>>>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
> >>>>> Subversion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets.
> >> That's
> >>>>> something
> >>>>> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support
> >> center
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on
> >> disk.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have
> >> missed
> >>>> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with
> >> Collbanet
> >>>> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
> >>>
> >>> So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation
> is
> >> you.
> >>> If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers
> can
> >>> demonstrate
> >>> some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't
> riddled
> >> with
> >>> chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a
> >> jail/virtual os
> >>> for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to
> >> make
> >>> proper
> >>> use of the CMS.
> >>
> >> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if
> we
> >> (AOOo) decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of
> >> support hub that we have a big task that requires careful design and
> >> implementation.
> >>
> >> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar,
> if
> >> only slightly?
> >>
> >> Alexandro, I really like your ideas that you expressed about linking OOo
> >> users instantly to a support network. Whatever might be developed by
> AOOo to
> >> do that will need to be very scalable. And if we mean dynamic then we
> aren't
> >> discussing mirrors so much.
> >>
> >
> > I don't want to spend too much time talking about this simply because in
> > LibreOffice this topic was a huge and I mean HUGE flamewar that lasted
> > longer than a solar storm. Big +100 emails discussions, pretty scary
> > scenario.
>
> Understood. It does help to have specific examples so we really are talking
> about the same topic.
> >
> > Leaving that war scar aside, I mean from a simple thing like managing
> menus
> > and contents (an all traditional HTML structure is horrible). Things from
> > news items, to just organizing and updating the menus on every page of
> the
> > site is a pain in the butt.
>
> Menus are in one place - sidenav.mdtext
>
Right the issue becomes what happens when I need a localized menu and who
has access to that chunk of data?
Kenai and Collabnet both worked the same way, they had multiple chunks of
HTML that could be modular, except the access was restricted and dialog was
slow. So we never got arround the localization issue.
If you look at http://es.openoffice.org you will see that is heavily
modified and a lot of CSS-display: none was used so we could use what we
needed. Obviously all this are hacks and what it shouldt be. Ideally we
would have our own HTML chunk that we can modify as needed. Hopefully easier
like a YAML structure.
>
> > Special campaigns such as monthly web newsletters (in spanish of course).
> Or
> > Localize project wide menus (something I remember was a big thing and we
> did
> > intense JS hacking to skip that). Was some of the things that could have
> > been fixed rather easily with few lines of PHP.
> > I actually started to think on a planet setup (planetplanet written in
> > python) which generate the whole page from scripts and spew HTML code
> > everynight from different feeds. So I can script the whole site
> dynamically
> > on my localbox (let say in Python) and scaffolde the site into a folder
> that
> > sync with the server everynight.
>
> You can do that in your people.apache.org account and cron the site build
> in the CMS.
>
> > The issue here of course, is that if you have many maintainers this could
> > become a problem, just re-writing the whole site everyday and integrating
> > changes from other people everynight.
>
> Someone would need to delegate and if the person who does the cron
> disappears then we have trouble and need to ask Infra to bypass, a real
> PITA.
>
> A problem for later. ONce we have scripts, maybe we can ask for a project
> account on people to handle this.
>
> ooo-commits would then track the website changes as they semi-dynamically
> occur.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> There is a lot going on with Apache Lucene and Hadoop and their many
> >> friends that could be put to use to build an OOo user live QA / social
> >> network.
> >>
> >> But now I'm getting BIG. Would you mind describing a few of the
> >> frustrations that you had with Collabnet?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Alexandro Colorado*
> > *OpenOffice.org* Español
> > http://es.openoffice.org
>
>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 27, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>
>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <
>> joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
>>>>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> What about the rest of the questions:
>>>>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
>>>>> server,
>>>>>>>>>> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
>>>>> about
>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported, eg
>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
>>>>>>>>> uses them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dynamic content is not supported.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Static content (however generated) is supported.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it possible to have some CRUD?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take
>> advantage
>>>>>>> of what the CMS actually offers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't
>> get
>>>>> it
>>>>>> connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
>>>>>
>>>>> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree.
>> So
>>>>> no,
>>>>> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at
>> www.apache.orgwhich
>>>>> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So having a sign up sheet or a
>>>>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
>>>>> Subversion.
>>>>>
>>>>> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets.
>> That's
>>>>> something
>>>>> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support
>> center
>>>>> is
>>>>> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on
>> disk.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have
>> missed
>>>> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with
>> Collbanet
>>>> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
>>>
>>> So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is
>> you.
>>> If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can
>>> demonstrate
>>> some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled
>> with
>>> chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a
>> jail/virtual os
>>> for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to
>> make
>>> proper
>>> use of the CMS.
>>
>> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we
>> (AOOo) decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of
>> support hub that we have a big task that requires careful design and
>> implementation.
>>
>> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if
>> only slightly?
>>
>> Alexandro, I really like your ideas that you expressed about linking OOo
>> users instantly to a support network. Whatever might be developed by AOOo to
>> do that will need to be very scalable. And if we mean dynamic then we aren't
>> discussing mirrors so much.
>>
>
> I don't want to spend too much time talking about this simply because in
> LibreOffice this topic was a huge and I mean HUGE flamewar that lasted
> longer than a solar storm. Big +100 emails discussions, pretty scary
> scenario.
Understood. It does help to have specific examples so we really are talking about the same topic.
>
> Leaving that war scar aside, I mean from a simple thing like managing menus
> and contents (an all traditional HTML structure is horrible). Things from
> news items, to just organizing and updating the menus on every page of the
> site is a pain in the butt.
Menus are in one place - sidenav.mdtext
> Special campaigns such as monthly web newsletters (in spanish of course). Or
> Localize project wide menus (something I remember was a big thing and we did
> intense JS hacking to skip that). Was some of the things that could have
> been fixed rather easily with few lines of PHP.
> I actually started to think on a planet setup (planetplanet written in
> python) which generate the whole page from scripts and spew HTML code
> everynight from different feeds. So I can script the whole site dynamically
> on my localbox (let say in Python) and scaffolde the site into a folder that
> sync with the server everynight.
You can do that in your people.apache.org account and cron the site build in the CMS.
> The issue here of course, is that if you have many maintainers this could
> become a problem, just re-writing the whole site everyday and integrating
> changes from other people everynight.
Someone would need to delegate and if the person who does the cron disappears then we have trouble and need to ask Infra to bypass, a real PITA.
A problem for later. ONce we have scripts, maybe we can ask for a project account on people to handle this.
ooo-commits would then track the website changes as they semi-dynamically occur.
Regards,
Dave
>
>
>>
>> There is a lot going on with Apache Lucene and Hadoop and their many
>> friends that could be put to use to build an OOo user live QA / social
>> network.
>>
>> But now I'm getting BIG. Would you mind describing a few of the
>> frustrations that you had with Collabnet?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Alexandro Colorado*
> *OpenOffice.org* Español
> http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >
> >> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>
> >>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> >>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <
> joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> >>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
> >>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> >>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> What about the rest of the questions:
> >>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
> >>> that
> >>>>> there
> >>>>>>>> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
> >>> server,
> >>>>>>>> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
> >>> about
> >>>>> user
> >>>>>>>> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported, eg
> >>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> >>>>>>> uses them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dynamic content is not supported.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Static content (however generated) is supported.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Is it possible to have some CRUD?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take
> advantage
> >>>>> of what the CMS actually offers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't
> get
> >>> it
> >>>> connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
> >>>
> >>> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree.
> So
> >>> no,
> >>> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at
> www.apache.orgwhich
> >>> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
> >>>
> >>>> So having a sign up sheet or a
> >>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
> >>> Subversion.
> >>>
> >>> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets.
> That's
> >>> something
> >>> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support
> center
> >>> is
> >>> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on
> disk.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have
> missed
> >> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with
> Collbanet
> >> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
> >
> > So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is
> you.
> > If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can
> > demonstrate
> > some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled
> with
> > chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a
> jail/virtual os
> > for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to
> make
> > proper
> > use of the CMS.
>
> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we
> (AOOo) decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of
> support hub that we have a big task that requires careful design and
> implementation.
>
> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if
> only slightly?
>
> Alexandro, I really like your ideas that you expressed about linking OOo
> users instantly to a support network. Whatever might be developed by AOOo to
> do that will need to be very scalable. And if we mean dynamic then we aren't
> discussing mirrors so much.
>
I don't want to spend too much time talking about this simply because in
LibreOffice this topic was a huge and I mean HUGE flamewar that lasted
longer than a solar storm. Big +100 emails discussions, pretty scary
scenario.
Leaving that war scar aside, I mean from a simple thing like managing menus
and contents (an all traditional HTML structure is horrible). Things from
news items, to just organizing and updating the menus on every page of the
site is a pain in the butt.
Special campaigns such as monthly web newsletters (in spanish of course). Or
Localize project wide menus (something I remember was a big thing and we did
intense JS hacking to skip that). Was some of the things that could have
been fixed rather easily with few lines of PHP.
I actually started to think on a planet setup (planetplanet written in
python) which generate the whole page from scripts and spew HTML code
everynight from different feeds. So I can script the whole site dynamically
on my localbox (let say in Python) and scaffolde the site into a folder that
sync with the server everynight.
The issue here of course, is that if you have many maintainers this could
become a problem, just re-writing the whole site everyday and integrating
changes from other people everynight.
>
> There is a lot going on with Apache Lucene and Hadoop and their many
> friends that could be put to use to build an OOo user live QA / social
> network.
>
> But now I'm getting BIG. Would you mind describing a few of the
> frustrations that you had with Collabnet?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----
>
>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>
>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
>>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>>>>>> What about the rest of the questions:
>>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
>>> that
>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
>>> server,
>>>>>>>> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
>>> about
>>>>> user
>>>>>>>> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported, eg
>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
>>>>>>> uses them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dynamic content is not supported.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Static content (however generated) is supported.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it possible to have some CRUD?
>>>>>
>>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take advantage
>>>>> of what the CMS actually offers.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't get
>>> it
>>>> connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
>>>
>>> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree. So
>>> no,
>>> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at www.apache.orgwhich
>>> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
>>>
>>>> So having a sign up sheet or a
>>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
>>> Subversion.
>>>
>>> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets. That's
>>> something
>>> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support center
>>> is
>>> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on disk.
>>>
>>
>> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have missed
>> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with Collbanet
>> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
>
> So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is you.
> If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can
> demonstrate
> some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled with
> chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a jail/virtual os
> for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to make
> proper
> use of the CMS.
Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we (AOOo) decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of support hub that we have a big task that requires careful design and implementation.
If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if only slightly?
Alexandro, I really like your ideas that you expressed about linking OOo users instantly to a support network. Whatever might be developed by AOOo to do that will need to be very scalable. And if we mean dynamic then we aren't discussing mirrors so much.
There is a lot going on with Apache Lucene and Hadoop and their many friends that could be put to use to build an OOo user live QA / social network.
But now I'm getting BIG. Would you mind describing a few of the frustrations that you had with Collabnet?
Regards,
Dave
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
----- Original Message ----
> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >
> > > From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> > > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> > > Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > >
> > > > > From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> > > > > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> > > > > Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
> > d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> > > > > > > On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > > > > > > > What about the rest of the questions:
> > > > > > > > - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
> > that
> > > > there
> > > > > > > are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
> > server,
> > > > > > > but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
> > about
> > > > user
> > > > > > > support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Server-side includes are supported, eg
> > > > > > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> > > > > > uses them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dynamic content is not supported.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Static content (however generated) is supported.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it possible to have some CRUD?
> > > >
> > > > Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take advantage
> > > > of what the CMS actually offers.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't get
> > it
> > > connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
> >
> > The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree. So
> > no,
> > you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at www.apache.orgwhich
> > has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
> >
> > > So having a sign up sheet or a
> > > locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
> > Subversion.
> >
> > It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets. That's
> > something
> > a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support center
> > is
> > something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on disk.
> >
>
> Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have missed
> this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with Collbanet
> and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is you.
If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can
demonstrate
some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled with
chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a jail/virtual os
for you to use as you see fit. In the meantime I suggest you learn to make
proper
use of the CMS.
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----
>
> > From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> > Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
> >wrote:
> >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > >
> > > > From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> > > > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> > > > Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <
> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> > > > > > On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > > > > > > What about the rest of the questions:
> > > > > > > - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think
> that
> > > there
> > > > > > are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
> server,
> > > > > > but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
> about
> > > user
> > > > > > support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Server-side includes are supported, eg
> > > > > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> > > > > uses them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dynamic content is not supported.
> > > > >
> > > > > Static content (however generated) is supported.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible to have some CRUD?
> > >
> > > Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take advantage
> > > of what the CMS actually offers.
> > >
> >
> > Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't get
> it
> > connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
>
> The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree. So
> no,
> you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at www.apache.orgwhich
> has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
>
> > So having a sign up sheet or a
> > locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with
> Subversion.
>
> It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets. That's
> something
> a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support center
> is
> something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on disk.
>
Well I have ran main websites for projects for while, and I have missed
this functionality many times. We also were very frustrated with Collbanet
and other structures asking for true dynamic platform.
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
----- Original Message ----
> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >
> > > From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> > > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> > > Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> > > > > On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > > > > > What about the rest of the questions:
> > > > > > - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that
> > there
> > > > > are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server,
> > > > > but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about
> > user
> > > > > support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Server-side includes are supported, eg
> > > > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> > > > uses them.
> > > >
> > > > Dynamic content is not supported.
> > > >
> > > > Static content (however generated) is supported.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is it possible to have some CRUD?
> >
> > Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take advantage
> > of what the CMS actually offers.
> >
>
> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't get it
> connect the data to a datasource in SVN.
The sites are static, but they are generated from a subversion tree. So no,
you can't "connect to svn" from the site. But look at www.apache.org which
has lots of "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
> So having a sign up sheet or a
> locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with Subversion.
It isn't the point of the main website to provide signup sheets. That's
something
a link to a wiki page can provide. Finding the closest OOo support center is
something a CGI script can do that has access to read-only data on disk.
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----
>
> > From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> > Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
> >wrote:
> >
> > > Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> > > > On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > > > > What about the rest of the questions:
> > > > > - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
> > > >
> > > > This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that
> there
> > > > are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server,
> > > > but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about
> user
> > > > support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Server-side includes are supported, eg
> > > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> > > uses them.
> > >
> > > Dynamic content is not supported.
> > >
> > > Static content (however generated) is supported.
> > >
> >
> > Is it possible to have some CRUD?
>
> Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take advantage
> of what the CMS actually offers.
>
Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form to a site, I can't get it
connect the data to a datasource in SVN. So having a sign up sheet or a
locate the closest OOo support center. I can't make that with Subversion.
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
----- Original Message ----
> From: Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>wrote:
>
> > Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> > > On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > > > What about the rest of the questions:
> > > > - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
> > >
> > > This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that there
> > > are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server,
> > > but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about user
> > > support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> > >
> >
> > Server-side includes are supported, eg
> > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> > uses them.
> >
> > Dynamic content is not supported.
> >
> > Static content (however generated) is supported.
> >
>
> Is it possible to have some CRUD?
Subversion is CRUD, and much more. Really you should take advantage
of what the CMS actually offers.
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>wrote:
> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> > On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > > What about the rest of the questions:
> > > - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
> >
> > This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that there
> > are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server,
> > but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about user
> > support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> >
>
> Server-side includes are supported, eg
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> uses them.
>
> Dynamic content is not supported.
>
> Static content (however generated) is supported.
>
Is it possible to have some CRUD?
Here is the wikipage describing the modules that made the HTML template in
OOo:
http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/LayoutCustomizationforOOoOnKenai
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > What about the rest of the questions:
> > - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>
> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that there
> are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server,
> but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about user
> support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
>
Server-side includes are supported, eg http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
uses them.
Dynamic content is not supported.
Static content (however generated) is supported.
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
Dave--
See below...
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> >
> > Ok, if we go with this, doesn't access to
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg
> >
> > require an Apache account and CLA?
>
> Yes.
>
> > So in other words, only "committers" could set this up.
> >
> > I am still confused.
>
> Patches are acceptable form everyone, and given your history ... it's worth
> discussing on the PPMC list giving you this access.
>
> Are you willing to sign an ICLA?
>
I already did and sent it in. It should be on file along with my preferred
ID.
I'm not trying to be a pain. Basically in the past on OO.o, there were a
variety of committers, every thing from code developers to wiki
contributors, to actual web site contributors, so when I saw the initial
list of "committers", it seemed (though I could be wrong about this) that
this only included code developers. It seems many of the community didn't
know ANYTHING about what happened or how to get involved until very
recently.
Thanks for your consideration. It's just that I see your "To Do" list, and I
think, well I could do some of that, but I have no access!
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/www/
> >>
> >> I think that the initial OpenOffice landing page is pretty nicely
> >> done.
> >>
> >>> - Who decided on this template?
> >>
> >> It was copied from another podling. Feel free to make adjustments
> >> under lazy consensus.
> >>
> >> I did find the following:
> >>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms/conversion-utilities/cwiki/README.txt
> >>
> >> So, we can develop content on OOODEV and then convert it to
> >> markdown. This would be good to know and test.
> >>
> >> Regards, Dave
> >>
> >
> > -- more snipped --
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > MzK
> >
> > "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
> > that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
> > I'll just start over kind of attitude."
> > -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>
>
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
that
'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and I'll just start over kind
of attitude."
— "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
<snip>
>
> Ok, if we go with this, doesn't access to http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg
>
> require an Apache account and CLA?
Yes.
> So in other words, only "committers" could set this up.
>
> I am still confused.
Patches are acceptable form everyone, and given your history ... it's worth discussing on the PPMC list giving you this access.
Are you willing to sign an ICLA?
Regards,
Dave
>
>
>
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/www/
>>
>> I think that the initial OpenOffice landing page is pretty nicely
>> done.
>>
>>> - Who decided on this template?
>>
>> It was copied from another podling. Feel free to make adjustments
>> under lazy consensus.
>>
>> I did find the following:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms/conversion-utilities/cwiki/README.txt
>>
>> So, we can develop content on OOODEV and then convert it to
>> markdown. This would be good to know and test.
>>
>> Regards, Dave
>>
>
> -- more snipped --
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
see below regarding Dave's location proposal...much snipped from earlier
conversations
On 06/27/2011 11:54 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
-- lots snipped from this earlier reply --
That is the template. The css is here:
>>> incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ooo.css
>>>
>>
>> What about the rest of the questions: - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI
>> (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
>
> This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that
> there are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic
> server, but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion
> about user support ideas and your response has me thinking Open
> Social.
>
>> - What is the direction of this site?
>
> I think we build it and move it around. My thought is that we build
> the new Apache OpenOffice replacement for openoffice.org at
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/www/ with the mdtext at
Ok, if we go with this, doesn't access to
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg
require an Apache account and CLA?
So in other words, only "committers" could set this up.
I am still confused.
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/www/
>
> I think that the initial OpenOffice landing page is pretty nicely
> done.
>
>> - Who decided on this template?
>
> It was copied from another podling. Feel free to make adjustments
> under lazy consensus.
>
> I did find the following:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms/conversion-utilities/cwiki/README.txt
>
> So, we can develop content on OOODEV and then convert it to
> markdown. This would be good to know and test.
>
> Regards, Dave
>
-- more snipped --
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
I'll just start over kind of attitude."
-- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 06/27/2011 07:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
>>>>>>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
>>>>>>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
>>>>>>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to
>> Apache,
>>>>>>> we remove redirects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the Apache
>>>>>> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is "up"
>> on
>>>>>> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is available
>>>>>> via
>>>>>> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
>>>>>> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
>>>>>> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
>>>>>> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in
>> order.
>>>>>> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a
>> reasonable
>>>>>> schedule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect business.
>>>>>> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
>>>>>> everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on
>> parts
>>>>>> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
>>>>>> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not doing
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated on
>> the
>>>>>> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really have
>> NO
>>>>>> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at the
>>>>>> moment.
>>>>>> This would be interesting to find out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also wonder
>>>>> what
>>>>> is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI? Who
>>>>> choosed that template?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure how to answer this since I don't even know if it HAS a
>> template.
>>>> ????
>>>>
>>>> Since I know little about kenai, I don't know anything about it handles
>>>> templates, but the site looks pretty much the same as it did before the
>>>> move.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
>>>>
>>>>> idea to simply change it as please.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The site uses ssh+svn (svn with ssh tunneling) see:
>>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/SourceControl
>>>>
>>>> You need your own private ssh key uploaded through your OO.o private
>> key.
>>>>
>>>> If you have your own OO.o ID and login, you should be able to see what
>>>> projects you are a member of and what rights you have to them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the direction of
>>>>> that
>>>>> site.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well...it's my understanding that eventually it will cease to exist, at
>>>> some point yet to be determined. Thus, we need to put whatever effort we
>> can
>>>> into this new Apache endeavor.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo new
>> site:
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>>>
>>> I think this one is set up here:
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/
>>>
>>> It seems to have some perl(?) scripts:
>>>
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/lib/view.pm?revision=1137122&view=markup
>>>
>>> Not sure if its using a framework or just random perl scripts holding
>> things
>>> somewhat automated. From what I see there are some Templates setup:
>>>
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/templates/skeleton.html?revision=1137122&view=markup
>>
>> That is the template. The css is here:
>> incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ooo.css
>>
>
> What about the rest of the questions:
> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that there are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server, but I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about user support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.
> - What is the direction of this site?
I think we build it and move it around. My thought is that we build the new Apache OpenOffice replacement for openoffice.org at http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/www/ with the mdtext at http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/www/
I think that the initial OpenOffice landing page is pretty nicely done.
> - Who decided on this template?
It was copied from another podling. Feel free to make adjustments under lazy consensus.
I did find the following: https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms/conversion-utilities/cwiki/README.txt
So, we can develop content on OOODEV and then convert it to markdown. This would be good to know and test.
Regards,
Dave
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>> On Kenai, it did had the tigris template, which we drag from Collabnet,
>> and
>>> the CSS had some major change to it spreading it across 6 different
>>> stylesheets (before it was only one). And there were of course a template
>>> use on most of the projects. BizDev and Education tried a tableless CSS
>>> which never made it to production.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
>>>>>>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As
>> services
>>>>>>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
>>>>>>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time
>> being.
>>>>>> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be
>> desirable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
>>>>>>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
>>>>>>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
>>>>>>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
>>>>>>> complicate things?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
>>>>>>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
>>>>>>> straightforward.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the list
>> on
>>>>>> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> MzK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good
>> stuff,
>>>>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>>>>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>>>>>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> MzK
>>>>
>>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
>>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>>>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Alexandro Colorado*
>>> *OpenOffice.org* Español
>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Alexandro Colorado*
> *OpenOffice.org* Español
> http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On 06/27/2011 07:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
> >>>>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
> >>>>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
> >>>>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to
> Apache,
> >>>>> we remove redirects.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the Apache
> >>>> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is "up"
> on
> >>>> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is available
> >>>> via
> >>>> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
> >>>> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
> >>>> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
> >>>> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in
> order.
> >>>> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a
> reasonable
> >>>> schedule.
> >>>>
> >>>> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect business.
> >>>> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
> >>>> everything.
> >>>>
> >>>> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on
> parts
> >>>> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
> >>>> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not doing
> >>>> much
> >>>> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated on
> the
> >>>> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really have
> NO
> >>>> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at the
> >>>> moment.
> >>>> This would be interesting to find out.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also wonder
> >>> what
> >>> is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI? Who
> >>> choosed that template?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Not sure how to answer this since I don't even know if it HAS a
> template.
> >> ????
> >>
> >> Since I know little about kenai, I don't know anything about it handles
> >> templates, but the site looks pretty much the same as it did before the
> >> move.
> >>
> >>
> >> How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
> >>
> >>> idea to simply change it as please.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The site uses ssh+svn (svn with ssh tunneling) see:
> >> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/SourceControl
> >>
> >> You need your own private ssh key uploaded through your OO.o private
> key.
> >>
> >> If you have your own OO.o ID and login, you should be able to see what
> >> projects you are a member of and what rights you have to them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the direction of
> >>> that
> >>> site.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well...it's my understanding that eventually it will cease to exist, at
> >> some point yet to be determined. Thus, we need to put whatever effort we
> can
> >> into this new Apache endeavor.
> >
> >
> > Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo new
> site:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
> >
> > I think this one is set up here:
> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/
> >
> > It seems to have some perl(?) scripts:
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/lib/view.pm?revision=1137122&view=markup
> >
> > Not sure if its using a framework or just random perl scripts holding
> things
> > somewhat automated. From what I see there are some Templates setup:
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/templates/skeleton.html?revision=1137122&view=markup
>
> That is the template. The css is here:
> incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ooo.css
>
What about the rest of the questions:
- Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?
- What is the direction of this site?
- Who decided on this template?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> > On Kenai, it did had the tigris template, which we drag from Collabnet,
> and
> > the CSS had some major change to it spreading it across 6 different
> > stylesheets (before it was only one). And there were of course a template
> > use on most of the projects. BizDev and Education tried a tableless CSS
> > which never made it to production.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
> >>>>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As
> services
> >>>>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
> >>>>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time
> being.
> >>>> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be
> desirable.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
> >>>>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
> >>>>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
> >>>>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
> >>>>> complicate things?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
> >>>>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
> >>>>> straightforward.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the list
> on
> >>>> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -Rob
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> MzK
> >>>>
> >>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good
> stuff,
> >>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
> >>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
> >>>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> MzK
> >>
> >> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
> >> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
> >> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
> >> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Alexandro Colorado*
> > *OpenOffice.org* Español
> > http://es.openoffice.org
>
>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 27, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 06/27/2011 07:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
>>>>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
>>>>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
>>>>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to Apache,
>>>>> we remove redirects.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the Apache
>>>> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is "up" on
>>>> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is available
>>>> via
>>>> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
>>>> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
>>>> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
>>>> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in order.
>>>> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a reasonable
>>>> schedule.
>>>>
>>>> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect business.
>>>> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
>>>> everything.
>>>>
>>>> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on parts
>>>> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
>>>> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not doing
>>>> much
>>>> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated on the
>>>> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really have NO
>>>> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at the
>>>> moment.
>>>> This would be interesting to find out.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also wonder
>>> what
>>> is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI? Who
>>> choosed that template?
>>>
>>
>> Not sure how to answer this since I don't even know if it HAS a template.
>> ????
>>
>> Since I know little about kenai, I don't know anything about it handles
>> templates, but the site looks pretty much the same as it did before the
>> move.
>>
>>
>> How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
>>
>>> idea to simply change it as please.
>>>
>>
>> The site uses ssh+svn (svn with ssh tunneling) see:
>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/SourceControl
>>
>> You need your own private ssh key uploaded through your OO.o private key.
>>
>> If you have your own OO.o ID and login, you should be able to see what
>> projects you are a member of and what rights you have to them.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the direction of
>>> that
>>> site.
>>>
>>
>> Well...it's my understanding that eventually it will cease to exist, at
>> some point yet to be determined. Thus, we need to put whatever effort we can
>> into this new Apache endeavor.
>
>
> Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo new site:
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>
> I think this one is set up here:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/
>
> It seems to have some perl(?) scripts:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/lib/view.pm?revision=1137122&view=markup
>
> Not sure if its using a framework or just random perl scripts holding things
> somewhat automated. From what I see there are some Templates setup:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/templates/skeleton.html?revision=1137122&view=markup
That is the template. The css is here: incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ooo.css
Regards,
Dave
> On Kenai, it did had the tigris template, which we drag from Collabnet, and
> the CSS had some major change to it spreading it across 6 different
> stylesheets (before it was only one). And there were of course a template
> use on most of the projects. BizDev and Education tried a tableless CSS
> which never made it to production.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
>>>>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As services
>>>>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
>>>>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time being.
>>>> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be desirable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
>>>>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
>>>>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
>>>>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
>>>>> complicate things?
>>>>>
>>>>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
>>>>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
>>>>> straightforward.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
>>>>
>>>> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the list on
>>>> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> MzK
>>>>
>>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
>>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>>>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MzK
>>
>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Alexandro Colorado*
> *OpenOffice.org* Español
> http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
On 6/27/2011 11:29 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
...snip...
>
> Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo new site:
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
For documentation on the Apache CMS system (which is used by many Apache
projects), see here:
http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html
You can either use SVN to checkout the tree and edit markdown in the
.mdtext files locally, or you can use use a browser to edit pages online.
- Shane
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
See here if you want to edit the webpages:
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.html
Am 06/27/2011 05:29 PM, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo new site:
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>
> I think this one is set up here:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/
>
> It seems to have some perl(?) scripts:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/lib/view.pm?revision=1137122&view=markup
>
> Not sure if its using a framework or just random perl scripts holding things
> somewhat automated. From what I see there are some Templates setup:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/templates/skeleton.html?revision=1137122&view=markup
>
> On Kenai, it did had the tigris template, which we drag from Collabnet, and
> the CSS had some major change to it spreading it across 6 different
> stylesheets (before it was only one). And there were of course a template
> use on most of the projects. BizDev and Education tried a tableless CSS
> which never made it to production.
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 06/27/2011 07:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
>>>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
>>>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
>>>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to Apache,
>>>> we remove redirects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the Apache
>>> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is "up" on
>>> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is available
>>> via
>>> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
>>> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
>>> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
>>> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in order.
>>> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a reasonable
>>> schedule.
>>>
>>> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect business.
>>> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
>>> everything.
>>>
>>> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on parts
>>> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
>>> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not doing
>>> much
>>> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated on the
>>> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really have NO
>>> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at the
>>> moment.
>>> This would be interesting to find out.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also wonder
>> what
>> is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI? Who
>> choosed that template?
>>
>
> Not sure how to answer this since I don't even know if it HAS a template.
> ????
>
> Since I know little about kenai, I don't know anything about it handles
> templates, but the site looks pretty much the same as it did before the
> move.
>
>
> How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
>
>> idea to simply change it as please.
>>
>
> The site uses ssh+svn (svn with ssh tunneling) see:
> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/SourceControl
>
> You need your own private ssh key uploaded through your OO.o private key.
>
> If you have your own OO.o ID and login, you should be able to see what
> projects you are a member of and what rights you have to them.
>
>
>
>> Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the direction of
>> that
>> site.
>>
>
> Well...it's my understanding that eventually it will cease to exist, at
> some point yet to be determined. Thus, we need to put whatever effort we can
> into this new Apache endeavor.
Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo new site:
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
I think this one is set up here:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/
It seems to have some perl(?) scripts:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/lib/view.pm?revision=1137122&view=markup
Not sure if its using a framework or just random perl scripts holding things
somewhat automated. From what I see there are some Templates setup:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/templates/skeleton.html?revision=1137122&view=markup
On Kenai, it did had the tigris template, which we drag from Collabnet, and
the CSS had some major change to it spreading it across 6 different
stylesheets (before it was only one). And there were of course a template
use on most of the projects. BizDev and Education tried a tableless CSS
which never made it to production.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
>>>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As services
>>>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
>>>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time being.
>>> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be desirable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
>>>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
>>>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
>>>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
>>>> complicate things?
>>>>
>>>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
>>>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
>>>> straightforward.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
>>>
>>> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the list on
>>> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> MzK
>>>
>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On 06/27/2011 07:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
>>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>>>
>>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
>>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
>>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to Apache,
>>> we remove redirects.
>>>
>>
>> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the Apache
>> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is "up" on
>> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is available via
>> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
>> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
>> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
>> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in order.
>> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a reasonable
>> schedule.
>>
>> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect business.
>> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
>> everything.
>>
>> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on parts
>> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
>> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not doing much
>> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated on the
>> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really have NO
>> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at the moment.
>> This would be interesting to find out.
>
>
> I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also wonder what
> is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI? Who
> choosed that template?
Not sure how to answer this since I don't even know if it HAS a
template. ????
Since I know little about kenai, I don't know anything about it handles
templates, but the site looks pretty much the same as it did before the
move.
How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
> idea to simply change it as please.
The site uses ssh+svn (svn with ssh tunneling) see:
http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/SourceControl
You need your own private ssh key uploaded through your OO.o private key.
If you have your own OO.o ID and login, you should be able to see what
projects you are a member of and what rights you have to them.
>
> Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the direction of that
> site.
Well...it's my understanding that eventually it will cease to exist, at
some point yet to be determined. Thus, we need to put whatever effort we
can into this new Apache endeavor.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
>>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As services
>>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
>>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>>>
>>
>> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time being.
>> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be desirable.
>>
>>
>>
>>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
>>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
>>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
>>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
>>> complicate things?
>>>
>>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
>>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
>>> straightforward.
>>>
>>
>> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
>>
>> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the list on
>> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
>>
>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MzK
>>
>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>
>
>
>
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
I'll just start over kind of attitude."
-- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>>
>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to Apache,
>> we remove redirects.
>>
>
> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the Apache
> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is "up" on
> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is available via
> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in order.
> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a reasonable
> schedule.
>
> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect business.
> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
> everything.
>
> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on parts
> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not doing much
> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated on the
> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really have NO
> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at the moment.
> This would be interesting to find out.
I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also wonder what
is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI? Who
choosed that template? How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
idea to simply change it as please.
Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the direction of that
site.
>
>
>
>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As services
>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>>
>
> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time being.
> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be desirable.
>
>
>
>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
>> complicate things?
>>
>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
>> straightforward.
>>
>
> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
>
> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the list on
> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
>
>
>> -Rob
>>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
> -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>
> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to Apache,
> we remove redirects.
Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the Apache
environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is "up" on
Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is available
via OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a VERY
comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
"migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in order.
This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a reasonable
schedule.
Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect business.
I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
everything.
Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights on
parts of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not doing
much except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated
on the OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really
have NO idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at
the moment. This would be interesting to find out.
>
> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As services
> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time being.
However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be desirable.
>
> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
> complicate things?
>
> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
> straightforward.
Well this particular area seems OK. :)
Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the list on
the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
>
> -Rob
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
I'll just start over kind of attitude."
-- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
> Am 06/27/2011 02:28 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>>
>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
>> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to Apache,
>> we remove redirects.
>>
>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As services
>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>>
>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
>> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
>> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
>> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
>> complicate things?
>
> +1
>
> With 2) we would need to rely more on what Oracle is doing for us.
Joe Schaefer has requested the Zone file for openoffice.org to be used in a private discussion on infrastructure.
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
> Date: June 26, 2011 8:38:12 AM PDT
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Preserving Legacy Content (was: Contributors versus Committers versus PMC members - AND USERS)
> Reply-To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
> At this point infrastructure would be interested in
> seeing the DNS zone file for openoffice.org, so we
> can get some idea of how many different services
> we're talking about.
>
>
> If someone has that information, please forward it
> to me privately. Thanks.
I think that Infrastructure will have a definite opinion. I think for DNS there really isn't much choice to deviate from 1)
a) Transfer Domain Registration to ASF
b) Copy Zone files to ASF's DNS providers.
c) Change authoritative DNS servers to Oracle.
Once (a) and (b) are done the DNS for OpenOffice is completely in our hands.
Of course, there may be issues with doing so, but that's for Network savvy people to know after they actually see what is going on in the Zone file.
>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
>> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
>> straightforward.
Bugzilla is customized to provide help with choosing the correct component for the bug. This is due to both the large number of application parts and languages.
There was no clear preference expressed between JIRA and Bugzilla. I think JIRA provides better project management facility and I have been using for 9 years. But that's just me. I asked on Infra and Mark Thomas said that he might have a preference based on size. I suppose that is more a question of which Apache service has the most headroom right now plus backup sizes.
At this point though I think the consensus may turn out to be a move the Bugzilla. The overriding reason would be that the OOo community is ued to it. Even this requires co-ordination with Oracle.
a) Oracle puts the OOo bugzilla in read-only.
b) Oracle (or us) exports the whole bugzilla.
c) ASF Infra imports OOo bugzilla database into bugzilla - either a separate or the global.
bugzilla input is not customized.
d) AOOo team adds appropriate frontend to markdown site. (This could be done in parallel to a, b and c.)
e) ASF Infrastructure redirects issues.openoffice.org to our new url.
One question, and this has been mentioned by Kay Schenk in another thread is managing all the redirections.
Since there is a lot of URL rewriting that is going to be involved, we need to find out how that ought to happen.
Regards,
Dave
Re: Top level question on website migration
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 06/27/2011 02:28 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we move
> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>
> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now. For services
> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to Oracle's
> server, by IP address. As additional services are migrated to Apache,
> we remove redirects.
>
> 2) Do it in the opposite direction: DNS goes to Oracle's servers and
> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated. As services
> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests. When
> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>
> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
> Oracle. We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the pace of
> migration. But are there protocols beyond http/https that we need to
> worry about? For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
> complicate things?
+1
With 2) we would need to rely more on what Oracle is doing for us.
> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we couldn't
> start some migration this week. Bugzilla, for example, seems to be a
> straightforward.