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Posted to dev@geronimo.apache.org by Alex Blewitt <Al...@ioshq.com> on 2003/08/26 15:49:07 UTC
[PATCH] Submitted directory structure for new 'mail' module
I submitted Geronimo 18 in the 'mail' module. Can someone apply it so
that work can begin on the new Apache mail implementations?
http://jira.codehaus.org/secure/ViewIssue.jspa?key=GERONIMO-18
Thanks,
Alex.
Re: [PATCH] Submitted directory structure for new 'mail' module
Posted by Laurent Forêt <l....@clipack.com>.
Further more, I repeat my suggestion .
One spec = one Implementation ===> flexibility, transparency.
>From my point of view, the minimum is to separate into different module.
I don't think that a servletContainer developper is interested in how the
jsp spec is implemented or how the EJBContainer is implemented.
I also think that jmx should be developped in another part of the project. I
know, it's more difficult to do this at the beginning, but if the spec is
well done, the developper just has to respect the spec.
Laurent Forêt.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Blewitt" <Al...@ioshq.com>
To: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Submitted directory structure for new 'mail' module
> On Tuesday, Aug 26, 2003, at 18:38 Europe/London, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>
> > Chill. We will add a mail module later, but we really don't need it
> > now. Right now core contains EJB and that will be moved later also.
> > Once we get something going we will do a big refactor and move out
> > EJB, mail and anything not deemed core.
>
> I think it can safely be assumed that 'JavaMail' is as much as an
> independent component as EJB, Web, Twiddle etc.
>
> The reason that the EJB is in core is that's what was there in the
> import build. Since then, other things have been added, and where
> sensible they have gone into separate modules.
>
> Given that it is highly unlikely that JavaMail will ever be just
> tightly integrated into the Geronimo core (indeed, other Apache
> developers have expressed an interest in being able to access it) there
> is no real reason to put it in core when it can be put in its own
> module. Putting it into core with the intent of later refactoring just
> delays the refactoring process until later and makes it potentially
> harder than starting in the right direction.
>
> There are also configuration files which must be a part of the JavaMail
> implementation, and should not be mistaken for other code. Introducing
> it into the core module now would result in that extra piece of
> information potentially coming lost during a refactoring process.
>
> Given that I have already written the module's project.xml file (with
> necessary dependencies) and set up the resources correctly, there is no
> extra cost involved in setting up a module to handle it. It also
> separates out the source code from other parts of the Geronimo core, so
> that (for example) it is possible to run the JavaMail implementation
> tests separately from the Core tests. As the JavaMail is in its
> infancy, I don't think that it will be passing all of its tests for a
> while, and it would only serve to annoy 'core' developers that lots of
> tests in what is an unrelated module.
>
> Given that there are many reasons to have a separate module, and only
> 'we don't really need it now' against, I think it is clear that a
> separate module is the right way to go.
>
> Alex.
>
>
Re: [PATCH] Submitted directory structure for new 'mail' module
Posted by Alex Blewitt <Al...@ioshq.com>.
On Tuesday, Aug 26, 2003, at 18:38 Europe/London, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
> Chill. We will add a mail module later, but we really don't need it
> now. Right now core contains EJB and that will be moved later also.
> Once we get something going we will do a big refactor and move out
> EJB, mail and anything not deemed core.
I think it can safely be assumed that 'JavaMail' is as much as an
independent component as EJB, Web, Twiddle etc.
The reason that the EJB is in core is that's what was there in the
import build. Since then, other things have been added, and where
sensible they have gone into separate modules.
Given that it is highly unlikely that JavaMail will ever be just
tightly integrated into the Geronimo core (indeed, other Apache
developers have expressed an interest in being able to access it) there
is no real reason to put it in core when it can be put in its own
module. Putting it into core with the intent of later refactoring just
delays the refactoring process until later and makes it potentially
harder than starting in the right direction.
There are also configuration files which must be a part of the JavaMail
implementation, and should not be mistaken for other code. Introducing
it into the core module now would result in that extra piece of
information potentially coming lost during a refactoring process.
Given that I have already written the module's project.xml file (with
necessary dependencies) and set up the resources correctly, there is no
extra cost involved in setting up a module to handle it. It also
separates out the source code from other parts of the Geronimo core, so
that (for example) it is possible to run the JavaMail implementation
tests separately from the Core tests. As the JavaMail is in its
infancy, I don't think that it will be passing all of its tests for a
while, and it would only serve to annoy 'core' developers that lots of
tests in what is an unrelated module.
Given that there are many reasons to have a separate module, and only
'we don't really need it now' against, I think it is clear that a
separate module is the right way to go.
Alex.
Re: [PATCH] Submitted directory structure for new 'mail' module
Posted by Dain Sundstrom <da...@coredevelopers.net>.
Alex,
Chill. We will add a mail module later, but we really don't need it
now. Right now core contains EJB and that will be moved later also.
Once we get something going we will do a big refactor and move out EJB,
mail and anything not deemed core.
-dain
On Tuesday, August 26, 2003, at 12:28 PM, Alex Blewitt wrote:
>>> Please can you explain your reasoning why it is better in 'core'
>>> when other modules (web, twiddle, xmlbeans) clearly exist and such
>>> modules act as a suitable separation of code?
>>
>> The reason is that your patch did not have any code in it. Take it
>> from my perspective if I go and create modules for everyone who
>> submitted a patch with no code, then we could end up with lots of
>> empty/stale modules.
>
> It did not have code, but it had:
>
> o Directory structure required for packages
> o Project.xml file with documentation about that module and package
> names configured
> o Resources for JavaMail implementation which will be required (which
> should be moved from the specs/javamail/resources directory)
>
> Thus your assumption 'no code==empty' is invalid. Granted, it had no
> Java code, but it was not empty.
>
> I am trying to work with others to co-ordinate the JavaMail
> implementation, and I wanted to set up the right structure/module so
> that people would use the right place for it. Indeed, I have said to
> one of the other developers on JavaMail that I would get the module
> set up so that he would have something to commit a patch against.
>
> If you want to put some code in it, please feel free to add the
> following :
>
> ---
> modules/mail/src/java/org/apache/geronimo/mail/AbstractTransport.java:
>
> package org.apache.geronimo.mail;
>
> import javax.mail.Transport;
> public abstract class AbstractTransport extends Transport {
> }
> ---
>
> Thus there is now code for this patch.
>
> Alex.
>
>
/*************************
* Dain Sundstrom
* Partner
* Core Developers Network
*************************/
Re: [PATCH] Submitted directory structure for new 'mail' module
Posted by Alex Blewitt <Al...@ioshq.com>.
>> Please can you explain your reasoning why it is better in 'core' when
>> other modules (web, twiddle, xmlbeans) clearly exist and such modules
>> act as a suitable separation of code?
>
> The reason is that your patch did not have any code in it. Take it
> from my perspective if I go and create modules for everyone who
> submitted a patch with no code, then we could end up with lots of
> empty/stale modules.
It did not have code, but it had:
o Directory structure required for packages
o Project.xml file with documentation about that module and package
names configured
o Resources for JavaMail implementation which will be required (which
should be moved from the specs/javamail/resources directory)
Thus your assumption 'no code==empty' is invalid. Granted, it had no
Java code, but it was not empty.
I am trying to work with others to co-ordinate the JavaMail
implementation, and I wanted to set up the right structure/module so
that people would use the right place for it. Indeed, I have said to
one of the other developers on JavaMail that I would get the module set
up so that he would have something to commit a patch against.
If you want to put some code in it, please feel free to add the
following :
---
modules/mail/src/java/org/apache/geronimo/mail/AbstractTransport.java:
package org.apache.geronimo.mail;
import javax.mail.Transport;
public abstract class AbstractTransport extends Transport {
}
---
Thus there is now code for this patch.
Alex.
Re: [PATCH] Submitted directory structure for new 'mail' module
Posted by Jason Dillon <ja...@coredevelopers.net>.
> That doesn't make sense. The specs for JavaMail are in a separate
> module, and the implementation of JavaMail is supposed to be a part
> of, but not tightly intertwined with, the Geronimo package.
Agreed.
> Further, JavaMail has configuration files that need to be kept with
> the JavaMail implementation; putting them in the 'core' package is
> going to potentially lose that information and if it gets refactored
> out then these references may be lost.
Agreed.
> Lastly, there's no real reason why Geronimo needs to depend on the
> JavaMail specs (per se) but obviously the JavaMail implementation
> does. I have coded the appropriate project.xml module in the mail
> module to take account of this feature, so that the JavaMail doesn't
> need to depend on other parts of the core, nor vice-versa.
Agreed.
> Please can you explain your reasoning why it is better in 'core' when
> other modules (web, twiddle, xmlbeans) clearly exist and such modules
> act as a suitable separation of code?
The reason is that your patch did not have any code in it. Take it
from my perspective if I go and create modules for everyone who
submitted a patch with no code, then we could end up with lots of
empty/stale modules.
--jason
Re: [PATCH] Submitted directory structure for new 'mail' module
Posted by Alex Blewitt <Al...@ioshq.com>.
On Tuesday, Aug 26, 2003, at 18:03 Europe/London, Jason Dillon wrote:
> Can you plz use the core module for now.
That doesn't make sense. The specs for JavaMail are in a separate
module, and the implementation of JavaMail is supposed to be a part of,
but not tightly intertwined with, the Geronimo package.
Further, JavaMail has configuration files that need to be kept with the
JavaMail implementation; putting them in the 'core' package is going to
potentially lose that information and if it gets refactored out then
these references may be lost.
Lastly, there's no real reason why Geronimo needs to depend on the
JavaMail specs (per se) but obviously the JavaMail implementation does.
I have coded the appropriate project.xml module in the mail module to
take account of this feature, so that the JavaMail doesn't need to
depend on other parts of the core, nor vice-versa.
Please can you explain your reasoning why it is better in 'core' when
other modules (web, twiddle, xmlbeans) clearly exist and such modules
act as a suitable separation of code?
Alex.
> On Tuesday, August 26, 2003, at 08:49 PM, Alex Blewitt wrote:
>
>> I submitted Geronimo 18 in the 'mail' module. Can someone apply it so
>> that work can begin on the new Apache mail implementations?
>>
>> http://jira.codehaus.org/secure/ViewIssue.jspa?key=GERONIMO-18
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Alex.
>>
>
Re: [PATCH] Submitted directory structure for new 'mail' module
Posted by Jason Dillon <ja...@coredevelopers.net>.
Can you plz use the core module for now.
--jason
On Tuesday, August 26, 2003, at 08:49 PM, Alex Blewitt wrote:
> I submitted Geronimo 18 in the 'mail' module. Can someone apply it so
> that work can begin on the new Apache mail implementations?
>
> http://jira.codehaus.org/secure/ViewIssue.jspa?key=GERONIMO-18
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex.
>