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Posted to users@kafka.apache.org by Tim Visher <ti...@gmail.com> on 2016/11/29 14:30:38 UTC
Disadvantages of Upgrading Kafka server without upgrading client libraries?
Hi Everyone,
I have an install of Kafka 0.8.2.1 which I'm upgrading to 0.10.1.0. I see
that Kafka 0.10.1.0 should be backwards compatible with client libraries
written for older versions but that newer client libraries are only
compatible with their version and up.
My question is what disadvantages would there be to never upgrading the
clients? I'm mainly asking because it would be advantageous to save some
time here with a little technical debt if the costs weren't too high. If
there are major issues then I can take on the client upgrade as well.
Thanks in advance!
--
In Christ,
Timmy V.
http://blog.twonegatives.com/
http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail
Re: Disadvantages of Upgrading Kafka server without upgrading client libraries?
Posted by Ismael Juma <is...@juma.me.uk>.
That's right, there should be no performance penalty if the broker is
configured to use the older message format. The downside is that timestamps
introduced in message format version 2 won't be supported in that case.
Ismael
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Hans Jespersen <ha...@confluent.io> wrote:
> The performance impact of upgrading and some settings you can use to
> mitigate this impact when the majority of your clients are still 0.8.x are
> documented on the Apache Kafka website
> https://kafka.apache.org/documentation#upgrade_10_performance_impact
>
> -hans
>
> /**
> * Hans Jespersen, Principal Systems Engineer, Confluent Inc.
> * hans@confluent.io (650)924-2670
> */
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Apurva Mehta <ap...@confluent.io> wrote:
>
> > I may be wrong, but since there have been message format changes between
> > 0.8.2 and 0.10.1, there will be a performance penalty if the clients are
> > not also upgraded. This is because you lose the zero-copy semantics on
> the
> > server side as the messages have to be converted to the old format before
> > being sent out on the wire to the old clients.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Thomas Becker <to...@tivo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > The only obvious downside I'm aware of is not being able to benefit
> > > from the bugfixes in the client. We are essentially doing the same
> > > thing; we upgraded the broker side to 0.10.0.0 but have yet to upgrade
> > > our clients from 0.8.1.x.
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2016-11-29 at 09:30 -0500, Tim Visher wrote:
> > > > Hi Everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I have an install of Kafka 0.8.2.1 which I'm upgrading to 0.10.1.0. I
> > > > see
> > > > that Kafka 0.10.1.0 should be backwards compatible with client
> > > > libraries
> > > > written for older versions but that newer client libraries are only
> > > > compatible with their version and up.
> > > >
> > > > My question is what disadvantages would there be to never upgrading
> > > > the
> > > > clients? I'm mainly asking because it would be advantageous to save
> > > > some
> > > > time here with a little technical debt if the costs weren't too high.
> > > > If
> > > > there are major issues then I can take on the client upgrade as well.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance!
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > In Christ,
> > > >
> > > > Timmy V.
> > > >
> > > > http://blog.twonegatives.com/
> > > > http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Tommy Becker
> > >
> > > Senior Software Engineer
> > >
> > > O +1 919.460.4747
> > >
> > > tivo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > This email and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> > > material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
> copying,
> > > or distribution of this email (or any attachments) by others is
> > prohibited.
> > > If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> > > immediately and permanently delete this email and any attachments. No
> > > employee or agent of TiVo Inc. is authorized to conclude any binding
> > > agreement on behalf of TiVo Inc. by email. Binding agreements with TiVo
> > > Inc. may only be made by a signed written agreement.
> > >
> >
>
Re: Disadvantages of Upgrading Kafka server without upgrading client libraries?
Posted by Hans Jespersen <ha...@confluent.io>.
The performance impact of upgrading and some settings you can use to
mitigate this impact when the majority of your clients are still 0.8.x are
documented on the Apache Kafka website
https://kafka.apache.org/documentation#upgrade_10_performance_impact
-hans
/**
* Hans Jespersen, Principal Systems Engineer, Confluent Inc.
* hans@confluent.io (650)924-2670
*/
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Apurva Mehta <ap...@confluent.io> wrote:
> I may be wrong, but since there have been message format changes between
> 0.8.2 and 0.10.1, there will be a performance penalty if the clients are
> not also upgraded. This is because you lose the zero-copy semantics on the
> server side as the messages have to be converted to the old format before
> being sent out on the wire to the old clients.
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Thomas Becker <to...@tivo.com> wrote:
>
> > The only obvious downside I'm aware of is not being able to benefit
> > from the bugfixes in the client. We are essentially doing the same
> > thing; we upgraded the broker side to 0.10.0.0 but have yet to upgrade
> > our clients from 0.8.1.x.
> >
> > On Tue, 2016-11-29 at 09:30 -0500, Tim Visher wrote:
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > >
> > > I have an install of Kafka 0.8.2.1 which I'm upgrading to 0.10.1.0. I
> > > see
> > > that Kafka 0.10.1.0 should be backwards compatible with client
> > > libraries
> > > written for older versions but that newer client libraries are only
> > > compatible with their version and up.
> > >
> > > My question is what disadvantages would there be to never upgrading
> > > the
> > > clients? I'm mainly asking because it would be advantageous to save
> > > some
> > > time here with a little technical debt if the costs weren't too high.
> > > If
> > > there are major issues then I can take on the client upgrade as well.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance!
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > In Christ,
> > >
> > > Timmy V.
> > >
> > > http://blog.twonegatives.com/
> > > http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail
> > --
> >
> >
> > Tommy Becker
> >
> > Senior Software Engineer
> >
> > O +1 919.460.4747
> >
> > tivo.com
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > This email and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> > material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying,
> > or distribution of this email (or any attachments) by others is
> prohibited.
> > If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> > immediately and permanently delete this email and any attachments. No
> > employee or agent of TiVo Inc. is authorized to conclude any binding
> > agreement on behalf of TiVo Inc. by email. Binding agreements with TiVo
> > Inc. may only be made by a signed written agreement.
> >
>
Re: Disadvantages of Upgrading Kafka server without upgrading client libraries?
Posted by Apurva Mehta <ap...@confluent.io>.
I may be wrong, but since there have been message format changes between
0.8.2 and 0.10.1, there will be a performance penalty if the clients are
not also upgraded. This is because you lose the zero-copy semantics on the
server side as the messages have to be converted to the old format before
being sent out on the wire to the old clients.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Thomas Becker <to...@tivo.com> wrote:
> The only obvious downside I'm aware of is not being able to benefit
> from the bugfixes in the client. We are essentially doing the same
> thing; we upgraded the broker side to 0.10.0.0 but have yet to upgrade
> our clients from 0.8.1.x.
>
> On Tue, 2016-11-29 at 09:30 -0500, Tim Visher wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I have an install of Kafka 0.8.2.1 which I'm upgrading to 0.10.1.0. I
> > see
> > that Kafka 0.10.1.0 should be backwards compatible with client
> > libraries
> > written for older versions but that newer client libraries are only
> > compatible with their version and up.
> >
> > My question is what disadvantages would there be to never upgrading
> > the
> > clients? I'm mainly asking because it would be advantageous to save
> > some
> > time here with a little technical debt if the costs weren't too high.
> > If
> > there are major issues then I can take on the client upgrade as well.
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > --
> >
> > In Christ,
> >
> > Timmy V.
> >
> > http://blog.twonegatives.com/
> > http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail
> --
>
>
> Tommy Becker
>
> Senior Software Engineer
>
> O +1 919.460.4747
>
> tivo.com
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> This email and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying,
> or distribution of this email (or any attachments) by others is prohibited.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> immediately and permanently delete this email and any attachments. No
> employee or agent of TiVo Inc. is authorized to conclude any binding
> agreement on behalf of TiVo Inc. by email. Binding agreements with TiVo
> Inc. may only be made by a signed written agreement.
>
Re: Disadvantages of Upgrading Kafka server without upgrading
client libraries?
Posted by Thomas Becker <to...@Tivo.com>.
The only obvious downside I'm aware of is not being able to benefit
from the bugfixes in the client. We are essentially doing the same
thing; we upgraded the broker side to 0.10.0.0 but have yet to upgrade
our clients from 0.8.1.x.
On Tue, 2016-11-29 at 09:30 -0500, Tim Visher wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I have an install of Kafka 0.8.2.1 which I'm upgrading to 0.10.1.0. I
> see
> that Kafka 0.10.1.0 should be backwards compatible with client
> libraries
> written for older versions but that newer client libraries are only
> compatible with their version and up.
>
> My question is what disadvantages would there be to never upgrading
> the
> clients? I'm mainly asking because it would be advantageous to save
> some
> time here with a little technical debt if the costs weren't too high.
> If
> there are major issues then I can take on the client upgrade as well.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> --
>
> In Christ,
>
> Timmy V.
>
> http://blog.twonegatives.com/
> http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail
--
Tommy Becker
Senior Software Engineer
O +1 919.460.4747
tivo.com
________________________________
This email and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments) by others is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete this email and any attachments. No employee or agent of TiVo Inc. is authorized to conclude any binding agreement on behalf of TiVo Inc. by email. Binding agreements with TiVo Inc. may only be made by a signed written agreement.
Re: Disadvantages of Upgrading Kafka server without upgrading client libraries?
Posted by Gwen Shapira <gw...@confluent.io>.
Most people upgrade clients to enjoy new client features, fix bugs or
improve performance. If none of these apply, no need to upgrade.
Since you are upgrading to 0.10.1.0, read the upgrade docs closely -
there are specific server settings regarding the message format that
you need to configure a certain way if the clients are not upgraded.
Gwen
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 6:30 AM, Tim Visher <ti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I have an install of Kafka 0.8.2.1 which I'm upgrading to 0.10.1.0. I see
> that Kafka 0.10.1.0 should be backwards compatible with client libraries
> written for older versions but that newer client libraries are only
> compatible with their version and up.
>
> My question is what disadvantages would there be to never upgrading the
> clients? I'm mainly asking because it would be advantageous to save some
> time here with a little technical debt if the costs weren't too high. If
> there are major issues then I can take on the client upgrade as well.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> --
>
> In Christ,
>
> Timmy V.
>
> http://blog.twonegatives.com/
> http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail
--
Gwen Shapira
Product Manager | Confluent
650.450.2760 | @gwenshap
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