wrong lists - 2cents

[Ralph LaChance <Ra...@compuserve.com>]

Just my random, well-intentioned 2 cents on the frequency with
which "user" questions show up here.

Mind you, I don't find them all that annoying; some - including me - would
say it doesn't hurt to have "developers" see what the real world is up to.  But
I have noticed that increasingly folks show signs of having been told (off 
list)
that they're asking in the wrong place.

I can't help but wonder if some of the user questions that stray onto this
list do so because of confusion engendered by the list names.

I can imagine someone thinking

	"ah, I, a developer building a fop app, need help;
	I'll send my question to this here fop-dev list"

I could go on about the disinclination of certain red-blooded developers
to ever believe they are a "user" but maybe I won't go there   ;-)

Perhaps a simple rename of the current fop-dev to Fop-internals would help ?

btw Some might say the web page is pretty explicit about which
list is which - to which I might say "and your point is ?"

	'best
	-Ralph LaChance

Oh my, I hope this doesn't launch a firestorm  ;-)


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Re: wrong lists - 2cents

["J.Pietschmann" <j3...@yahoo.de>]

Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> You may be right. It may be a weak argument that the dev/user scheme is
> used all over the XML project. In this regard your thought should
> probably be targeted one level higher up.

Well, it's an apache standard, and the generally
copied charters state clearly:
   dev: discussions *among* developers
   user: user discussions and help
There is the option to use bugzilla for feature
requests (i don't know whether this is used for
FOP, is is handled this way for Ant)

J.Pietschmann


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Re: wrong lists - 2cents

[Jeremias Maerki <je...@outline.ch>]

Hi Ralph

> Just my random, well-intentioned 2 cents on the frequency with
> which "user" questions show up here.
> 
> Mind you, I don't find them all that annoying; some - including me - would
> say it doesn't hurt to have "developers" see what the real world is up to.  But
> I have noticed that increasingly folks show signs of having been told (off 
> list)
> that they're asking in the wrong place.

It's not that we're not also on the fop-user list, you know. I think
we're just trying to get users to finally use fop-user for their
questions. More and more, they can also help themselves. That's a good
sign. I mean we have a big user base already and a relatively small
developer circle on the other side. And some of them are working hard on
the redesign so that some user requirements are even possible to
implement.

But I think nobody has ever been told off without an answer to the
question a the same time. It has taken a long time to separate fop-dev
and fop-user. To do that people had/have to be redirected (as politely
as possible, of course).

> I can't help but wonder if some of the user questions that stray onto this
> list do so because of confusion engendered by the list names.
>
> I can imagine someone thinking
> 
> 	"ah, I, a developer building a fop app, need help;
> 	I'll send my question to this here fop-dev list"
>
> I could go on about the disinclination of certain red-blooded developers
> to ever believe they are a "user" but maybe I won't go there   ;-)
> 
> Perhaps a simple rename of the current fop-dev to Fop-internals would help ?

You may be right. It may be a weak argument that the dev/user scheme is
used all over the XML project. In this regard your thought should
probably be targeted one level higher up.

> btw Some might say the web page is pretty explicit about which
> list is which - to which I might say "and your point is ?"
>
> Oh my, I hope this doesn't launch a firestorm  ;-)

We'll see. :-) 

Cheers,
Jeremias Märki

mailto:jeremias.maerki@outline.ch

OUTLINE AG
Postfach 3954 - Rhynauerstr. 15 - CH-6002 Luzern
Tel. +41 41 317 2020 - Fax +41 41 317 2029
Internet http://www.outline.ch


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