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Posted to users@httpd.apache.org by Michael Avila <ma...@mich.com> on 2005/10/19 00:30:29 UTC
[users@httpd] Apache With SBC DSL
This is a little off topic. I asked the question before but I have
additional information about the problem and it may make a difference. I
have been told that the IP address given depends upon location so let it be
known that I am in the Detroit area of Michigan.
Currently I have dialup and use DynDNSUpdater to change my IP address in DNS
(through DynDNS.org).
I am going to be ordering DSL from SBC this week. I have my own PC and then
I want to have an Apache webserver on another PC. I want both hooked up to
the DSL. The DSL that I am ordering will have a dynamic IP address.
After talking to no less than 5 SBC DSL people, I know less now than before
I talked with them. I called tech support and asked if I will be getting a
routable IP address. (The person who will be doing the hookup for me told me
to ask that question.) The way she said yes caused me to ask the next
question. Is it a 192 address? Yep, you guessed it! The answer was yes.
Sooo, I need to find out how to work with the worse case scenario - that I
receive a dynamic non-routable IP address. How can people access my site
with a domain name if the dynamic address keeps changing and it is a private
network (192.0.0.0) address? My understanding is that the modem has the
dynamic non-routable address. If a router is next and then the webserver,
how can people reach the webserver?
I hope that I explained it clear enough. Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Mike
[users@httpd] Re: Apache With SBC DSL
Posted by Joost de Heer <sa...@xs4all.nl>.
> and it is a private network (192.0.0.0) address?
<nitpick mode>
192.168.0.0/16 is a private network, the rest of the 192.0.0.0/8 network
is routable.
</nitpick mode>
Joost
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[users@httpd] Re: Apache With SBC DSL
Posted by Shankar Unni <sh...@netscape.net>.
Michael Avila wrote:
> question. Is it a 192 address? Yep, you guessed it! The answer was yes.
No, it's not (not a 192.**168**.* address (private), that is). Whatever
address you get will be a public IP address.
But yes, watch out for various ports being blocked (a whole lot of them
are blocked inbound, and some key ports, like 25, are also blocked
outbound, though you can ask for them to be specifically unblocked).
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Re: [users@httpd] Apache With SBC DSL
Posted by Nick Jones <ni...@yahoo.com>.
--- Tyler Nally <tn...@technally.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday 18 October 2005 05:30 pm, Michael Avila
> wrote:
>
> > Sooo, I need to find out how to work with the
> worse case scenario - that I
> > receive a dynamic non-routable IP address. How can
> people access my site
> > with a domain name if the dynamic address keeps
> changing and it is a
> > private network (192.0.0.0) address? My
> understanding is that the modem has
> > the dynamic non-routable address. If a router is
> next and then the
> > webserver, how can people reach the webserver?
>
> I've also the same as you... but I don't have a
> webserver at home as
> of yet setup. The question I can't answer is ..
> whether the Speadstream
> 5100 DSL modem (I think that's what I have) will
> allow a web browser from
> the outside world to connect upwardly into where my
> SBC DSL service is
> provided *to* my computer. If it won't, then no
> browsing of my machine
> is possible... with current hardware. If it will..
> then that's sufficient
> for it to work.
>
> I know my DynDNS host name that I've made for my
> machine and I can ping
> it from the outside world .. so I know the machine
> is reachable from the
> outside. My hunch is that the DSL modem is a stupid
> modem and does like
> any regular modem in a computer would do... if
> traffic hits it from the
> *internet* side.. it does its magic and sends it off
> to the customer side.
> And if traffic hits the modem from the customer
> side... it then hands it
> off to the internet side. I'd be surprised to find
> out that the DSL modem
> is smart/configured to block port 80 for web
> traffic.
SBC where I live (eastern WI, USA) does not block any
incoming ports except for 25. Charter (the cable
company) on the other hand, blocks a whole slew of
useful ports (21,23,25,80,110,143,etc.) and is useless
for having a home server (not to mention the dismal
upload speed). If SBC DSL was available at my
apartment I'd take it in a heartbeat.
What you're trying to do here is a piece of cake. Just
set your router to forward all traffic coming in on
port 80 to your webserver, and make sure your
webserver is set to a static internal IP address.
Also, make sure you have the Apache server set up to
dynamically update with your DNS provider. DynDNS.org,
no-ip.com, and ZoneEdit (the one I use) all provide
simple utilities for all platforms to do this for you
automagically. Plus, make sure your listen directive
in httpd.conf is set to listen to that internal IP (or
just use "Listen *:80").
> Now, if the DSL modem won't allow upstream traffic,
> what you *might* have
> to do is get a Linksys/Belkin/etc DSL internet
> router that you can setup
> in the place of the DSL modem that SBC provides in
> order to forward the
> "port 80" traffic that hits this device onto your
> machine rather than
> stopping it right at the DSL entry point device.
>
> In order for a new device to work, you still have to
> set it up *like* the
> DSL modem in that it'll take the parameters
> somewhere that'll associate your
> *home* master SBCGLOBAL.net account with your PHONE
> # (of DSL service) of
> the master account. SBC uses this combination of
> values to allow their
> DSL modem a free connection into their systems by
> verifying your master
> dsl account (mine is from sbcglobal.net) with
> password plus a verificaton
> of what phone number is the only phone number to
> allow that DSL connetion
>
> Also realize, that the standard home service only
> gives you 1.5 Megabits
> downstream per second... down to your PC... whereas
> upstream (away from your
> computer) isssss... I think... only 128K bits per
> second. If you upgrade
> to a 3 Mbits per second downstream.. you'll get
> almost 500K upstream.
>
> That's why you can download to your machine so much
> faster than uploading
> from it to another place.
>
> That's also why, they weren't volunteering much
> informtion to you because
> they'd rather you upgrade to SDSL with 3Mbits
> upstream/downstream and
> five routable IP addresses. But then.. I think that
> also costs $74.95
> per month as well... compared to $14.95 (slower DSL)
> or $29.95 (faster DSL).
>
> A much healthier connection...
> --
> Tyler Nally
> tnally@technally.com
-Nick
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Re: [users@httpd] Apache With SBC DSL
Posted by Tyler Nally <tn...@technally.com>.
On Tuesday 18 October 2005 05:30 pm, Michael Avila wrote:
> Sooo, I need to find out how to work with the worse case scenario - that I
> receive a dynamic non-routable IP address. How can people access my site
> with a domain name if the dynamic address keeps changing and it is a
> private network (192.0.0.0) address? My understanding is that the modem has
> the dynamic non-routable address. If a router is next and then the
> webserver, how can people reach the webserver?
I've also the same as you... but I don't have a webserver at home as
of yet setup. The question I can't answer is .. whether the Speadstream
5100 DSL modem (I think that's what I have) will allow a web browser from
the outside world to connect upwardly into where my SBC DSL service is
provided *to* my computer. If it won't, then no browsing of my machine
is possible... with current hardware. If it will.. then that's sufficient
for it to work.
I know my DynDNS host name that I've made for my machine and I can ping
it from the outside world .. so I know the machine is reachable from the
outside. My hunch is that the DSL modem is a stupid modem and does like
any regular modem in a computer would do... if traffic hits it from the
*internet* side.. it does its magic and sends it off to the customer side.
And if traffic hits the modem from the customer side... it then hands it
off to the internet side. I'd be surprised to find out that the DSL modem
is smart/configured to block port 80 for web traffic.
Now, if the DSL modem won't allow upstream traffic, what you *might* have
to do is get a Linksys/Belkin/etc DSL internet router that you can setup
in the place of the DSL modem that SBC provides in order to forward the
"port 80" traffic that hits this device onto your machine rather than
stopping it right at the DSL entry point device.
In order for a new device to work, you still have to set it up *like* the
DSL modem in that it'll take the parameters somewhere that'll associate your
*home* master SBCGLOBAL.net account with your PHONE # (of DSL service) of
the master account. SBC uses this combination of values to allow their
DSL modem a free connection into their systems by verifying your master
dsl account (mine is from sbcglobal.net) with password plus a verificaton
of what phone number is the only phone number to allow that DSL connetion
Also realize, that the standard home service only gives you 1.5 Megabits
downstream per second... down to your PC... whereas upstream (away from your
computer) isssss... I think... only 128K bits per second. If you upgrade
to a 3 Mbits per second downstream.. you'll get almost 500K upstream.
That's why you can download to your machine so much faster than uploading
from it to another place.
That's also why, they weren't volunteering much informtion to you because
they'd rather you upgrade to SDSL with 3Mbits upstream/downstream and
five routable IP addresses. But then.. I think that also costs $74.95
per month as well... compared to $14.95 (slower DSL) or $29.95 (faster DSL).
A much healthier connection...
--
Tyler Nally
tnally@technally.com
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RE: [users@httpd] Apache With SBC DSL
Posted by Nia Hartman <ni...@earthlink.net>.
May I suggest no-ip.com , I have used it for 5 years and it works great and
is simple to use. You keep your dynamic IP addressing and the no-ip.com
just tracks your current ip address and reroutes your web traffic to the new
ip as it changes. You can use it for free on a site called
mywebname.no-ip.com or park your registered name with them for about $25 per
year.
Let me warn you that Cable may be better than DSL. I have used both and
have had a number of problems with DSL. First DSL requires a phone line and
mine has had lots of trouble during bad weather and is now unusable due to
my neighbor's tree in the lines. If you have a DSL problem you have three
agencies who all point fingers at each other; 1-the phone company, 2-the
wire provider, 3-the internet provider. I had Earthlink, Covad, and Verizon
giving me the runaround for 3 weeks before I killed my yearlong contract and
went back to cable. With cable the lines are faster, more secure and
reliable, the tech help even seems better; I deal with time-warner and
earthlink and they have clear lines of who does what. A nasty problem with
DSL also is that you have to use PPPOe. If you only have one PC on the DSL
that machine has to have the software running on it and that is OK.
BUUUUUT, when you have a router on your home network the router has PPPOe in
it and handles the connection. If you ever need tech help you have to put
your single machine on the modem which means reinstalling PPPOe on that
machine everytime you need tech help. You can't just turn PPPOe off. You
have to remove it from your server again when it is connected to the router.
(This may only be an XP problem but it sucks.) The price difference is not
worth going to DSL.
_____________________________________________
From: Michael Avila [mailto:mavila@mich.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:30 PM
To: Apache - User Mailing List
Subject: [users@httpd] Apache With SBC DSL
This is a little off topic. I asked the question before but I have
additional information about the problem and it may make a difference. I
have been told that the IP address given depends upon location so let it be
known that I am in the Detroit area of Michigan.
Currently I have dialup and use DynDNSUpdater to change my IP address in DNS
(through DynDNS.org).
I am going to be ordering DSL from SBC this week. I have my own PC and then
I want to have an Apache webserver on another PC. I want both hooked up to
the DSL. The DSL that I am ordering will have a dynamic IP address.
After talking to no less than 5 SBC DSL people, I know less now than before
I talked with them. I called tech support and asked if I will be getting a
routable IP address. (The person who will be doing the hookup for me told me
to ask that question.) The way she said yes caused me to ask the next
question. Is it a 192 address? Yep, you guessed it! The answer was yes.
Sooo, I need to find out how to work with the worse case scenario - that I
receive a dynamic non-routable IP address. How can people access my site
with a domain name if the dynamic address keeps changing and it is a private
network (192.0.0.0) address? My understanding is that the modem has the
dynamic non-routable address. If a router is next and then the webserver,
how can people reach the webserver?
I hope that I explained it clear enough. Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Mike
<< File: ATT00072.txt >>
RE: [users@httpd] Apache With SBC DSL
Posted by Nia Hartman <ni...@earthlink.net>.
I use SMC routers because they are the same price as others and include
built in print servers.
Don't worry about your modem, the router has a Virtual Server setup that
pulls the port 80 traffic through to your internal network.
Go to the link below and check out page 56. It shows how simple it is to
set up the Virtual Server.
In the first line I put a 2, 80, 80. This means 192.168.2.2 is my server's
IP address internally and port 80 traffic should go through to port 80.
Then I select Enable then Add. Done.
http://www.smc.com/files/AK/2804WBRP-G_MN.pdf
_____________________________________________
From: Michael Avila [mailto:mavila@mich.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:30 PM
To: Apache - User Mailing List
Subject: [users@httpd] Apache With SBC DSL
This is a little off topic. I asked the question before but I have
additional information about the problem and it may make a difference. I
have been told that the IP address given depends upon location so let it be
known that I am in the Detroit area of Michigan.
Currently I have dialup and use DynDNSUpdater to change my IP address in DNS
(through DynDNS.org).
I am going to be ordering DSL from SBC this week. I have my own PC and then
I want to have an Apache webserver on another PC. I want both hooked up to
the DSL. The DSL that I am ordering will have a dynamic IP address.
After talking to no less than 5 SBC DSL people, I know less now than before
I talked with them. I called tech support and asked if I will be getting a
routable IP address. (The person who will be doing the hookup for me told me
to ask that question.) The way she said yes caused me to ask the next
question. Is it a 192 address? Yep, you guessed it! The answer was yes.
Sooo, I need to find out how to work with the worse case scenario - that I
receive a dynamic non-routable IP address. How can people access my site
with a domain name if the dynamic address keeps changing and it is a private
network (192.0.0.0) address? My understanding is that the modem has the
dynamic non-routable address. If a router is next and then the webserver,
how can people reach the webserver?
I hope that I explained it clear enough. Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Mike
<< File: ATT00072.txt >>
RE: [users@httpd] Apache With SBC DSL
Posted by "James W. Anderson" <jw...@bellsouth.net>.
My advice would be to contact SBC sales and ask if you can get a static IP
address for your DSL line. There are two reasons for doing this. First, if
they offer static IPs, then you can be assured it will NOT be a 192.x
address (what would be the benefit of having a static 192.x address versus a
dynamic one?). Second, if you're going to host web content out of your home
you should get a static IP anyway, just to eliminate the chore of keeping
your DNS in synch.
As for making your web server visible to the outside world, you'll want to
forward all incoming requests on port 80 to your web server. Your DSL modem
and/or router should have this capability. I have BellSouth as my DSL
provider and host a web server in house by forwarding port 80 to the web
server's IP. Just remember that your outbound bandwidth is a fraction of
your inbound bandwidth, so your web clients will see some pretty crappy
performance when they request content from your server (their inbound will
be limited by your outbound bandwidth).
Finally, you shouldn't have any trouble sharing the DSL line with several
PCs. Some of the newer DSL modems today come with DHCP and DNS servers
built-in, so that you can just plug an Ethernet switch into the LAN-side and
connect as many PCs as your switch will accommodate. If your modem doesn't
have DHCP or DNS built-in, then you'll hook the modem's LAN output into your
router's WAN input, and then connect all of your PCs to the router. In
either scenario you will want to use a static IP address for your web
server, so that you don't have to keep changing your port forward each time
there's a power outage and the server gets a new IP when everything reboots.
I hope this helps.
_____________________________________________
From: Michael Avila [mailto:mavila@mich.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 6:30 PM
To: Apache - User Mailing List
Subject: [users@httpd] Apache With SBC DSL
This is a little off topic. I asked the question before but I have
additional information about the problem and it may make a difference. I
have been told that the IP address given depends upon location so let it be
known that I am in the Detroit area of Michigan.
Currently I have dialup and use DynDNSUpdater to change my IP address in DNS
(through DynDNS.org).
I am going to be ordering DSL from SBC this week. I have my own PC and then
I want to have an Apache webserver on another PC. I want both hooked up to
the DSL. The DSL that I am ordering will have a dynamic IP address.
After talking to no less than 5 SBC DSL people, I know less now than before
I talked with them. I called tech support and asked if I will be getting a
routable IP address. (The person who will be doing the hookup for me told me
to ask that question.) The way she said yes caused me to ask the next
question. Is it a 192 address? Yep, you guessed it! The answer was yes.
Sooo, I need to find out how to work with the worse case scenario - that I
receive a dynamic non-routable IP address. How can people access my site
with a domain name if the dynamic address keeps changing and it is a private
network (192.0.0.0) address? My understanding is that the modem has the
dynamic non-routable address. If a router is next and then the webserver,
how can people reach the webserver?
I hope that I explained it clear enough. Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Mike
<< File: ATT00006.txt >>