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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by "matthew.hawthorne" <ma...@apache.org> on 2004/03/24 01:36:25 UTC
thoughts on subversion (was - Re: xdocs/ missing?)
Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> What are our thoughts on migrating to subversion? I've not even had time
> to try it out myself. Though I have it on my list.
I've been using it at work for about 6 months and I like it a lot.
Being able to easily move and rename directories and files is very cool.
They seemed to focus on fixing CVS' weaknesses and it looks like they
did a good job. It took about a day to get used to, and from then on it
felt natural.
I recently switched my home server over to Subversion and had some
problems getting the integration with Apache2 working, but it didn't
really matter since I prefer the svn+ssh method anyway.
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RE: thoughts on subversion (was - Re: xdocs/ missing?)
Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
>
> Branches and tags are lightweight copies. Alex Karasulu has been using
> branches for scratch areas, and enjoying it quite a bit.
>
Sorry I'm rushing out the door but the branching is cake. It was
much more intuitive copying over the trunk for a branch and then
merging it back in than dealing with sticky tags in CVS.
On a more general note, I can't deal with CVS any more. As I've told
Noel and others its like going back to dial up when you've already
tasted the speed and freedom of high speed. That's perhaps the best
way I can look at it.
Again sorry about the general and brief response - there are other
great aspects I wanted to mention as well and others seem to be hitting
those points.
Hope we decide to make the move soon.
Alex
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RE: thoughts on subversion (was - Re: xdocs/ missing?)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> (a) It seems that there are still some rough edges to the "import cvs
> repository" tool.
There has been a lot of work on it lately, but the only rough edges I know
of tend to be from when people abused CVS.
> (b) Subversion's handling of branches is quite different from CVS.
Branches and tags are lightweight copies. Alex Karasulu has been using
branches for scratch areas, and enjoying it quite a bit.
> (c) it may be worth waiting until svn client apps are available
> pre-built for most os versions.
I downloaded the source tarball, and did:
tar zxvf subversion-1.0.1.tar.gz
cd subversion-1.0.1
./configure --with-ssl --enable-all-static
make
The --with-ssl is important, since otherwise you will not have SSL support.
I added the --enable-all-static because I wanted one statically linked
client, even it it is 5MB. No fuss, no muss, no dependencies. If you want
to do the same thing, add --without-berkeley-db to ensure that it won't
build the server.
--- Noel
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Re: thoughts on subversion (was - Re: xdocs/ missing?)
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
My experiment-environment osjava.org has just moved to it and I'm finding
that it is largely a seamless adjustment for the user once they've:
a) Gotten a working client
b) Grokked the differences in a checkout
Later I expect to have pain learning the differences in tagging, but no
rush.
Client-wise; Windows seems well supported and I've happily built the
source for the client on OS X and am using it. Fink does not work
well/at-all. --with-ssl is worth remembering as a configure option.
I had pain setting up the server, so got an osjava colleague who gets it a
lot more to set the repo up for me. My server pain was due to odd i18n
issues with SuSE, but we're currently running on FreeBSD without issues.
Checking out is done from a url, so something like:
svn co http://....
which is a bit odd. Also you have to get used to 'HEAD' being 'trunk' and
having it in your directory path [I always have HEAD, but some might not].
The view-cvs [or view-svn really] we have installed has a download as
tar.gz option, which seems to remove the need for users to launch
themselves into needing svn clients, though anyone wanting to patch etc
will still need such a thing.
I know people who are expecting that because SVN uses WebDav, that clients
that talk WebDav like Dreamweaver will work, but a quick test showed that
this is not true. It's effectively read only. My SVN admin tells me it's
because SVN uses extensions like revision numbers to the basic webdav
protocol. Or something like that.
svn status is an improvement over cvs -n update, if only semantically.
Anyway, I'm +1 on moving to it.
Hen
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Simon Kitching wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 12:36, matthew.hawthorne wrote:
> > Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> > > What are our thoughts on migrating to subversion? I've not even had time
> > > to try it out myself. Though I have it on my list.
> >
> > I've been using it at work for about 6 months and I like it a lot.
> > Being able to easily move and rename directories and files is very cool.
> > They seemed to focus on fixing CVS' weaknesses and it looks like they
> > did a good job. It took about a day to get used to, and from then on it
> > felt natural.
> >
> > I recently switched my home server over to Subversion and had some
> > problems getting the integration with Apache2 working, but it didn't
> > really matter since I prefer the svn+ssh method anyway.
>
> Some issues to watch out for:
>
> (a) It seems that there are still some rough edges to the "import cvs
> repository" tool. At least there were about 4 weeks ago, which was when
> I unsubscribed from the subversion user list.
>
> (b) Subversion's handling of branches is quite different from CVS.
> I didn't manage to get my head around it properly during my brief
> experimentation with subversion, but there may be some gotchas in this
> area to watch out for.
>
> (c) it may be worth waiting until svn client apps are available
> pre-built for most os versions. Page
> http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html has a list of
> packages for various OSes, but the following aren't listed:
> gentoo
> mandrake
> aix
> hpux
> solaris
> I don't know the state of prebuilt client apps for these.
>
> (d) Support for svn in tools like eclipse is also only partial at the
> moment. I don't know if Ant has an svn task. etc.
>
> Otherwise I agree it is very smooth, comfortingly similar in feel to
> CVS, and best of all: *maintained* and *secure* (unlike CVS).
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Simon
>
>
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RE: thoughts on subversion (was - Re: xdocs/ missing?)
Posted by David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>.
--- "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > The eclipse plugin only works on windows because they use JNI
> > for some reason and have to compile against specific svn versions.
>
> "Download the latest release 0.9.0 for Windows (Linux and OSX
> releases also avaliable in "Documents and Files") which
> supports the following and more .... "
>
> See http://subclipse.tigris.org.
Cool, but the FAQ reads:
Why does Subclipse only support Windows?
A linux version is planned.
which caused the confusion.
David
>
> --- Noel
>
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RE: thoughts on subversion (was - Re: xdocs/ missing?)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> The eclipse plugin only works on windows because they use JNI
> for some reason and have to compile against specific svn versions.
"Download the latest release 0.9.0 for Windows (Linux and OSX
releases also avaliable in "Documents and Files") which
supports the following and more .... "
See http://subclipse.tigris.org.
--- Noel
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Re: thoughts on subversion (was - Re: xdocs/ missing?)
Posted by David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>.
--- Simon Kitching <si...@ecnetwork.co.nz> wrote:
<snip>
> (c) it may be worth waiting until svn client apps are available
> pre-built for most os versions. Page
> http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html has a list of
> packages for various OSes, but the following aren't listed:
> gentoo
> mandrake
> aix
> hpux
> solaris
> I don't know the state of prebuilt client apps for these.
>
> (d) Support for svn in tools like eclipse is also only partial at the
> moment. I don't know if Ant has an svn task. etc.
IMO, this is the main blocker. The eclipse plugin only works on windows
because they use JNI for some reason and have to compile against specific
svn versions. Until I can mindlessly select menu items from an IDE to
manipulate the repository I'm against leaving cvs. I agree there are
benefits to switching but they just don't outweigh the pain of poor tool
integration. IMHO, waiting for svn and the surrounding tools to mature a
bit more is a good idea.
David
>
> Otherwise I agree it is very smooth, comfortingly similar in feel to
> CVS, and best of all: *maintained* and *secure* (unlike CVS).
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Simon
>
>
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>
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Re: thoughts on subversion (was - Re: xdocs/ missing?)
Posted by Simon Kitching <si...@ecnetwork.co.nz>.
On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 12:36, matthew.hawthorne wrote:
> Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> > What are our thoughts on migrating to subversion? I've not even had time
> > to try it out myself. Though I have it on my list.
>
> I've been using it at work for about 6 months and I like it a lot.
> Being able to easily move and rename directories and files is very cool.
> They seemed to focus on fixing CVS' weaknesses and it looks like they
> did a good job. It took about a day to get used to, and from then on it
> felt natural.
>
> I recently switched my home server over to Subversion and had some
> problems getting the integration with Apache2 working, but it didn't
> really matter since I prefer the svn+ssh method anyway.
Some issues to watch out for:
(a) It seems that there are still some rough edges to the "import cvs
repository" tool. At least there were about 4 weeks ago, which was when
I unsubscribed from the subversion user list.
(b) Subversion's handling of branches is quite different from CVS.
I didn't manage to get my head around it properly during my brief
experimentation with subversion, but there may be some gotchas in this
area to watch out for.
(c) it may be worth waiting until svn client apps are available
pre-built for most os versions. Page
http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html has a list of
packages for various OSes, but the following aren't listed:
gentoo
mandrake
aix
hpux
solaris
I don't know the state of prebuilt client apps for these.
(d) Support for svn in tools like eclipse is also only partial at the
moment. I don't know if Ant has an svn task. etc.
Otherwise I agree it is very smooth, comfortingly similar in feel to
CVS, and best of all: *maintained* and *secure* (unlike CVS).
Cheers,
Simon
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