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Posted to user@karaf.apache.org by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com> on 2013/03/12 23:03:37 UTC
Re: release by subsystem
*Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
*
FYI:
1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
releases from any level of dependency tree:
https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
Thank you,
Andrei
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
To: dev@karaf.apache.org
Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
> Hi Andrei,
>
> I understand your point.
>
> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
> the minimal distribution and framework:
>
> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>
> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>
>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>> subsystem is possible.
>>
>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>
>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>>
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
I deeply disagree as it is not compliant with the Apache rules.
It's our guarantee and responsibility to review release and vote for
*all* releases.
More over, I don't see issue with our current releases.
I disagree with Christian, I don't think that Karaf 2.3.x was a mistake,
it was the occasion to promote important update (new OSGi version, etc)
without embedding too much changes.
My 0.02€
Regards
JB
On 03/13/2013 01:19 AM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
> Guillaume:
>
> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>
> Andrei.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>> *
>>> FYI:
>>>
>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>
>> Thx for the heads up.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>
>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>> dependencies.
>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>
>>
>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>
>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>
>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>>
>>>> I understand your point.
>>>>
>>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>>
>>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> JB
>>>>
>>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>>>
>>>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>>>
>>>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
I think the problem is not in the apache release process.
We would have been able to do a 3.0.0 release since some months now. I
think it was a mistake that we introduced a 2.3.x branch at all.
2.3.0 was not as stable as 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT when we released it.
If we had instead just released 3.0 as it was then we would be fine. By
now 3.0.x would be stable and people would already start the migrations.
So I think we should not do a 2.4.x branch and instead just push out
3.0.0 and work on making it as good as possible.
Christian
On 13.03.2013 01:52, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
> Daniel: thank you for your support :-) Andrei.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org, Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:43:27 PM CDT
>> THAT all said, I would also like much more frequent releases. :-)
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:42 PM, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jamie:
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> how about automatic "YES" for RC release provided there is not a single
>>>> "NO" ?
>>> As long as there are at least three YES votes to go along with the no NO votes. :-)
>>>
>>> Seriously, this falls into the lines of standard Apache release process guidelines. Not something that is really changeable except under extreme circumstances. (example would be shortening the 72 hour window for an emergency security release)
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: dev@karaf.apache.org, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:32:11 PM CDT
>>>>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>>>>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>>>>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Jamie:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>>>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>>>>>> community to my best understanding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>>>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Guillaume:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrei.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>>>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>>>>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>>>>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>>>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thx for the heads up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>>>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>>>>>> dependencies.
>>>>>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>>>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>>>>>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand your point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>>>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>>>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>>>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>>>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>>>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>>>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>>>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel Kulp
>>> dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
>>> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
>>>
>
--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Open Source Architect
http://www.talend.com
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>.
Daniel: thank you for your support :-) Andrei.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>
To: dev@karaf.apache.org, Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:43:27 PM CDT
> THAT all said, I would also like much more frequent releases. :-)
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:42 PM, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jamie:
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> how about automatic "YES" for RC release provided there is not a single
>>> "NO" ?
>> As long as there are at least three YES votes to go along with the no NO votes. :-)
>>
>> Seriously, this falls into the lines of standard Apache release process guidelines. Not something that is really changeable except under extreme circumstances. (example would be shortening the 72 hour window for an emergency security release)
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: dev@karaf.apache.org, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:32:11 PM CDT
>>>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>>>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>>>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Jamie:
>>>>>
>>>>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>>>>
>>>>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>>>>
>>>>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>>>>> community to my best understanding.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Guillaume:
>>>>>
>>>>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei.
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>>>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>>>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>>>> *
>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>>>>
>>>>> Thx for the heads up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>>>
>>>>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>>>>> dependencies.
>>>>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>>>>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand your point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>>>
>>>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> JB
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>>>
>>>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>>>
>>>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> --
>> Daniel Kulp
>> dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
>> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
>>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>.
THAT all said, I would also like much more frequent releases. :-)
Dan
On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:42 PM, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jamie:
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> how about automatic "YES" for RC release provided there is not a single
>> "NO" ?
>
> As long as there are at least three YES votes to go along with the no NO votes. :-)
>
> Seriously, this falls into the lines of standard Apache release process guidelines. Not something that is really changeable except under extreme circumstances. (example would be shortening the 72 hour window for an emergency security release)
>
> Dan
>
>
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
>> Cc: dev@karaf.apache.org, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:32:11 PM CDT
>>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Jamie:
>>>>
>>>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>>>
>>>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>>>
>>>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>>>> community to my best understanding.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Guillaume:
>>>>
>>>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>>>
>>>> Andrei.
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>>> *
>>>> FYI:
>>>>
>>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>>>
>>>> Thx for the heads up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>>
>>>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>>>> dependencies.
>>>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>>
>>>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>>>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>>
>>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>>
>>>> I understand your point.
>>>>
>>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>>
>>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> JB
>>>>
>>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>>
>>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>>
>>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>>
>>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
> --
> Daniel Kulp
> dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
>
--
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>.
On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jamie:
>
> :-)
>
> how about automatic "YES" for RC release provided there is not a single
> "NO" ?
As long as there are at least three YES votes to go along with the no NO votes. :-)
Seriously, this falls into the lines of standard Apache release process guidelines. Not something that is really changeable except under extreme circumstances. (example would be shortening the 72 hour window for an emergency security release)
Dan
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
> Cc: dev@karaf.apache.org, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:32:11 PM CDT
>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Jamie:
>>>
>>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>>
>>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>>
>>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>>
>>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>>> community to my best understanding.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Guillaume:
>>>
>>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>>
>>> Andrei.
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>> *
>>> FYI:
>>>
>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>>
>>> Thx for the heads up.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>
>>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>>> dependencies.
>>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>
>>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>
>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>
>>> I understand your point.
>>>
>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>
>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>
>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>
>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>
>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>
>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>
>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
--
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>.
Guillaume:
I did not look at 2.x lately, but at the time we made decision for 3.x
2.x features plugin did not work at all for our use cases.
Andrei.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
<de...@karaf.apache.org>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:42:30 PM CDT
> There's no lazy consensus possible for releases.
>
> Also, we have done regular releases roughly every 2 months since a few
> years (thx to Jamie): http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/karaf/tags/
>
> But could make them more frequent, but I think you're confused by the
> fact that 3.x is long to be released, which, again, has nothing to do
> with the release process. Have you had any real problems with the 2.x
> branches that were not fixed in an acceptable delay ?
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Jamie:
>
> :-)
>
> how about automatic "YES" for RC release provided there is not a
> single "NO" ?
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> <ma...@gmail.com>
> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
> <ma...@gmail.com>
> Cc: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>, Guillaume
> Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> <ma...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:32:11 PM CDT
>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Jamie:
>>>
>>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> <ma...@gmail.com>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
>>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> <ma...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>>
>>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>>
>>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>>
>>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>>> community to my best understanding.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>> <an...@gmail.com> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Guillaume:
>>>
>>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>>
>>> Andrei.
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> <ma...@gmail.com>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org> <de...@karaf.apache.org> <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>> *
>>> FYI:
>>>
>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>>
>>> Thx for the heads up.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>
>>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>>> dependencies.
>>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>
>>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net> <ma...@nanthrax.net>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>
>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>
>>> I understand your point.
>>>
>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>
>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>
>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>
>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>
>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>
>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>
>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>
> Email: gnodet@redhat.com <ma...@redhat.com>
> Web: http://fusesource.com <http://fusesource.com/>
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>.
great, thank you for the strong commitment.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
To: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>,
"dev@karaf.apache.org" <de...@karaf.apache.org>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:45:23 PM CDT
> I suspect that our release schedule will be getting more on track now
> that we've cleared some versioning discussions.
>
> Karaf 2.2.x is coming to EOL soon.
> Karaf 2.3.x is continuing on in support mode.
> Karaf 2.4.0-snapshots have started for new features.
> Karaf 3.0.0 is truly nearing, and as soon as that is out a 3.1.x
> branch will be created.
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There's no lazy consensus possible for releases.
>>
>> Also, we have done regular releases roughly every 2 months since a few years
>> (thx to Jamie): http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/karaf/tags/
>>
>> But could make them more frequent, but I think you're confused by the fact
>> that 3.x is long to be released, which, again, has nothing to do with the
>> release process. Have you had any real problems with the 2.x branches that
>> were not fixed in an acceptable delay ?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Jamie:
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> how about automatic "YES" for RC release provided there is not a single
>>> "NO" ?
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: dev@karaf.apache.org, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:32:11 PM CDT
>>>
>>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jamie:
>>>
>>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>>
>>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>>
>>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>>
>>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>>> community to my best understanding.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Guillaume:
>>>
>>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>>
>>> Andrei.
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>> *
>>> FYI:
>>>
>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>>
>>> Thx for the heads up.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>
>>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>>> dependencies.
>>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>
>>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically
>>> speaking,
>>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>
>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>
>>> I understand your point.
>>>
>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>
>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>
>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>
>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>
>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>
>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>
>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>>
>> Email: gnodet@redhat.com
>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
I suspect that our release schedule will be getting more on track now
that we've cleared some versioning discussions.
Karaf 2.2.x is coming to EOL soon.
Karaf 2.3.x is continuing on in support mode.
Karaf 2.4.0-snapshots have started for new features.
Karaf 3.0.0 is truly nearing, and as soon as that is out a 3.1.x
branch will be created.
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There's no lazy consensus possible for releases.
>
> Also, we have done regular releases roughly every 2 months since a few years
> (thx to Jamie): http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/karaf/tags/
>
> But could make them more frequent, but I think you're confused by the fact
> that 3.x is long to be released, which, again, has nothing to do with the
> release process. Have you had any real problems with the 2.x branches that
> were not fixed in an acceptable delay ?
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jamie:
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> how about automatic "YES" for RC release provided there is not a single
>> "NO" ?
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
>> Cc: dev@karaf.apache.org, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:32:11 PM CDT
>>
>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jamie:
>>
>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>
>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>
>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>
>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>> community to my best understanding.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Guillaume:
>>
>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>
>> Andrei.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>> *
>> FYI:
>>
>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>
>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>
>> Thx for the heads up.
>>
>>
>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>
>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>> dependencies.
>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>
>>
>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>
>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically
>> speaking,
>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>
>> Hi Andrei,
>>
>> I understand your point.
>>
>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>
>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>
>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>
>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>
>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>> subsystem is possible.
>>
>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>
>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>
> Email: gnodet@redhat.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
There's no lazy consensus possible for releases.
Also, we have done regular releases roughly every 2 months since a few
years (thx to Jamie): http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/karaf/tags/
But could make them more frequent, but I think you're confused by the fact
that 3.x is long to be released, which, again, has nothing to do with the
release process. Have you had any real problems with the 2.x branches that
were not fixed in an acceptable delay ?
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Andrei Pozolotin <
andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jamie:
>
> :-)
>
> how about automatic "YES" for RC release provided there is not a single
> "NO" ?
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> <ja...@gmail.com>
> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
> Cc: dev@karaf.apache.org, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:32:11 PM CDT
>
> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
> integration purposes in the mean time.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin<an...@gmail.com> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jamie:
>
> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> <ja...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> <gn...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>
> Sorry for jumping in here,
>
> Apache builds require approval before release:http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>
> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
> community to my best understanding.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin<an...@gmail.com> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Guillaume:
>
> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>
> Andrei.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> <gn...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
> *
> FYI:
>
> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
> releases from any level of dependency tree:
> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>
> Thx for the heads up.
>
>
> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>
> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
> dependencies.
> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>
>
> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>
> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net> <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>
> Hi Andrei,
>
> I understand your point.
>
> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
> the minimal distribution and framework:
>
> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>
> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>
> *Jean-Baptiste*
>
> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
> subsystem is possible.
>
> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>
> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrei
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Red Hat, Open Source Integration
Email: gnodet@redhat.com
Web: http://fusesource.com
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>.
Jamie:
:-)
how about automatic "YES" for RC release provided there is not a single
"NO" ?
Andrei
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
Cc: dev@karaf.apache.org, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:32:11 PM CDT
> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
> integration purposes in the mean time.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jamie:
>>
>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>
>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>
>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>
>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>> community to my best understanding.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Guillaume:
>>
>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>
>> Andrei.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>> *
>> FYI:
>>
>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>
>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>
>> Thx for the heads up.
>>
>>
>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>
>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>> dependencies.
>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>
>>
>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>
>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>
>> Hi Andrei,
>>
>> I understand your point.
>>
>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>
>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>
>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>
>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>
>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>> subsystem is possible.
>>
>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>
>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>>
>>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
I agree .. we don't want Jamie do to a release with a headache from bad
red wine :-)
Christian
On 13.03.2013 02:23, Daniel Kulp wrote:
> There is also the more critical issue of helping Jamie pick out release wines. If we go to a more frequent release schedule, he might run out of quality options to chose from and may need help providing a good selection. :-)
>
> Dan
>
--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Open Source Architect
http://www.talend.com
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>.
There is also the more critical issue of helping Jamie pick out release wines. If we go to a more frequent release schedule, he might run out of quality options to chose from and may need help providing a good selection. :-)
Dan
On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:16 PM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Awesome :)
>
> The best way is getting involved with Apache via contributions
> (submitting patches for bug fixes, new features, improvements, joining
> our email list discussions, submitting Jiras, etc). Generally new
> patch releases tend to be scheduled when the community request them,
> and are most commonly delayed when we're awaiting a critical/blocker
> issue to be resolved.
>
> Getting involved information:
> http://karaf.apache.org/index/community/contributing.html
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/getinvolved.html
> http://www.apache.org/dev/contributors
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jamie:
>>
>> well, in this case please let me know how can I help you make 1 RC per
>> month,
>>
>> instead of just bugging you on the list :-)
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
>> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:52:37 PM CDT
>>
>> There will not be a two year wait for Karaf 3.0.0.RC2 - we're hoping
>> that another RC will not be required before cutting the official 3.0.0
>> release. This RC1 is to gain feedback and identify critical issues
>> that need addressing before 3.0.0 is put up for vote.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Guillaume:
>>
>> no, snapshots are no good.
>>
>> explanation:
>>
>> we were trying to run in semi-production mode on karaf 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT for
>> last 6 month or so.
>>
>> problematic patterns:
>>
>> 1) some snapshots are good, some are really bad - karaf not even start
>> 2) daily snapshot pull is too much toll on developers - waste of time
>> 3) there is no easy way to go back to find out what/where was good / revert
>> to last known good.
>>
>> issue at hand:
>>
>> this used to work some 3 months back, but broken now:
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2180
>>
>> now you will cut RC1, with this bug baked in,
>> and then I have to wait for next 2 years to get RC2 :-)
>> I do not mind the bug, I mind 2 year wait / lack of periodic RC freeze.
>>
>> example from another project:
>> netty is not afraid to release 8 alphas and 2 betas in 6 month
>> http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cnetty
>>
>> I am not asking you to be an Oracle and release java every day,
>> but can you please be Google with their monthly chrome releases? :-)
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Andrei.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> To: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
>> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:33:49 PM CDT
>>
>> I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei. We have nightly
>> builds already. Aren't those sufficient ?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jamie:
>>
>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>
>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>
>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>
>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>> community to my best understanding.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Guillaume:
>>
>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>
>> Andrei.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>> *
>> FYI:
>>
>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>
>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>
>> Thx for the heads up.
>>
>>
>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>
>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third
>> party
>> dependencies.
>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>
>>
>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>
>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically
>> speaking,
>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>
>> Hi Andrei,
>>
>> I understand your point.
>>
>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>
>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>
>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>
>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>
>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>> subsystem is possible.
>>
>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>
>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>>
>> Email: gnodet@redhat.com
>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
--
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
Awesome :)
The best way is getting involved with Apache via contributions
(submitting patches for bug fixes, new features, improvements, joining
our email list discussions, submitting Jiras, etc). Generally new
patch releases tend to be scheduled when the community request them,
and are most commonly delayed when we're awaiting a critical/blocker
issue to be resolved.
Getting involved information:
http://karaf.apache.org/index/community/contributing.html
http://www.apache.org/foundation/getinvolved.html
http://www.apache.org/dev/contributors
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jamie:
>
> well, in this case please let me know how can I help you make 1 RC per
> month,
>
> instead of just bugging you on the list :-)
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:52:37 PM CDT
>
> There will not be a two year wait for Karaf 3.0.0.RC2 - we're hoping
> that another RC will not be required before cutting the official 3.0.0
> release. This RC1 is to gain feedback and identify critical issues
> that need addressing before 3.0.0 is put up for vote.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Guillaume:
>
> no, snapshots are no good.
>
> explanation:
>
> we were trying to run in semi-production mode on karaf 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT for
> last 6 month or so.
>
> problematic patterns:
>
> 1) some snapshots are good, some are really bad - karaf not even start
> 2) daily snapshot pull is too much toll on developers - waste of time
> 3) there is no easy way to go back to find out what/where was good / revert
> to last known good.
>
> issue at hand:
>
> this used to work some 3 months back, but broken now:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2180
>
> now you will cut RC1, with this bug baked in,
> and then I have to wait for next 2 years to get RC2 :-)
> I do not mind the bug, I mind 2 year wait / lack of periodic RC freeze.
>
> example from another project:
> netty is not afraid to release 8 alphas and 2 betas in 6 month
> http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cnetty
>
> I am not asking you to be an Oracle and release java every day,
> but can you please be Google with their monthly chrome releases? :-)
>
> cheers,
>
> Andrei.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> To: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:33:49 PM CDT
>
> I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei. We have nightly
> builds already. Aren't those sufficient ?
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
> integration purposes in the mean time.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jamie:
>
> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>
> Sorry for jumping in here,
>
> Apache builds require approval before release:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>
> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
> community to my best understanding.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Guillaume:
>
> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>
> Andrei.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
> *
> FYI:
>
> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>
> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>
> Thx for the heads up.
>
>
> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>
> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third
> party
> dependencies.
> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>
>
> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>
> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically
> speaking,
> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>
> Hi Andrei,
>
> I understand your point.
>
> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
> the minimal distribution and framework:
>
> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>
> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>
> *Jean-Baptiste*
>
> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
> subsystem is possible.
>
> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>
> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrei
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>
> Email: gnodet@redhat.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>.
Jamie:
well, in this case please let me know how can I help you make 1 RC per
month,
instead of just bugging you on the list :-)
Andrei
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
<de...@karaf.apache.org>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:52:37 PM CDT
> There will not be a two year wait for Karaf 3.0.0.RC2 - we're hoping
> that another RC will not be required before cutting the official 3.0.0
> release. This RC1 is to gain feedback and identify critical issues
> that need addressing before 3.0.0 is put up for vote.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Guillaume:
>>
>> no, snapshots are no good.
>>
>> explanation:
>>
>> we were trying to run in semi-production mode on karaf 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT for
>> last 6 month or so.
>>
>> problematic patterns:
>>
>> 1) some snapshots are good, some are really bad - karaf not even start
>> 2) daily snapshot pull is too much toll on developers - waste of time
>> 3) there is no easy way to go back to find out what/where was good / revert
>> to last known good.
>>
>> issue at hand:
>>
>> this used to work some 3 months back, but broken now:
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2180
>>
>> now you will cut RC1, with this bug baked in,
>> and then I have to wait for next 2 years to get RC2 :-)
>> I do not mind the bug, I mind 2 year wait / lack of periodic RC freeze.
>>
>> example from another project:
>> netty is not afraid to release 8 alphas and 2 betas in 6 month
>> http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cnetty
>>
>> I am not asking you to be an Oracle and release java every day,
>> but can you please be Google with their monthly chrome releases? :-)
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Andrei.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> To: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
>> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:33:49 PM CDT
>>
>> I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei. We have nightly
>> builds already. Aren't those sufficient ?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Jamie:
>>>>
>>>> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>>>
>>>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>>>
>>>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>>>> community to my best understanding.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Guillaume:
>>>>
>>>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>>>
>>>> Andrei.
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>>> *
>>>> FYI:
>>>>
>>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>>>
>>>> Thx for the heads up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>>
>>>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third
>>>> party
>>>> dependencies.
>>>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>>
>>>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically
>>>> speaking,
>>>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>>
>>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>>
>>>> I understand your point.
>>>>
>>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>>
>>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> JB
>>>>
>>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>>
>>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>>
>>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>>
>>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>>
>> Email: gnodet@redhat.com
>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
There will not be a two year wait for Karaf 3.0.0.RC2 - we're hoping
that another RC will not be required before cutting the official 3.0.0
release. This RC1 is to gain feedback and identify critical issues
that need addressing before 3.0.0 is put up for vote.
Cheers,
Jamie
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guillaume:
>
> no, snapshots are no good.
>
> explanation:
>
> we were trying to run in semi-production mode on karaf 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT for
> last 6 month or so.
>
> problematic patterns:
>
> 1) some snapshots are good, some are really bad - karaf not even start
> 2) daily snapshot pull is too much toll on developers - waste of time
> 3) there is no easy way to go back to find out what/where was good / revert
> to last known good.
>
> issue at hand:
>
> this used to work some 3 months back, but broken now:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2180
>
> now you will cut RC1, with this bug baked in,
> and then I have to wait for next 2 years to get RC2 :-)
> I do not mind the bug, I mind 2 year wait / lack of periodic RC freeze.
>
> example from another project:
> netty is not afraid to release 8 alphas and 2 betas in 6 month
> http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cnetty
>
> I am not asking you to be an Oracle and release java every day,
> but can you please be Google with their monthly chrome releases? :-)
>
> cheers,
>
> Andrei.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> To: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:33:49 PM CDT
>
> I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei. We have nightly
> builds already. Aren't those sufficient ?
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Jamie:
>> >
>> > cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> > From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> > Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>> >
>> > Sorry for jumping in here,
>> >
>> > Apache builds require approval before release:
>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>> >
>> > As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>> > community to my best understanding.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Jamie
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> > <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Guillaume:
>> >
>> > how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>> >
>> > Andrei.
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> > From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>> > andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>> > *
>> > FYI:
>> >
>> > 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>> > releases from any level of dependency tree:
>> >
>> > https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>> >
>> > Thx for the heads up.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>> > karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>> >
>> > Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third
>> > party
>> > dependencies.
>> > When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>> >
>> >
>> > 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>> > promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>> >
>> > And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically
>> > speaking,
>> > trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> > Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>> >
>> > Hi Andrei,
>> >
>> > I understand your point.
>> >
>> > Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>> > the minimal distribution and framework:
>> >
>> > - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>> > it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>> > - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>> > the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>> >
>> > I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > JB
>> >
>> > On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>> >
>> > *Jean-Baptiste*
>> >
>> > I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>> > subsystem is possible.
>> >
>> > For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>> > Aries, why should I wait for it?
>> >
>> > this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>> > no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>
> Email: gnodet@redhat.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:16 AM, Andrei Pozolotin <
andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guillaume
>
> what you say sounds like
> ""3.x is dead on arrival, and Red Hat will support only 2.x development".
>
> can you please make some kind of "official" statement?
>
That's not really what I'm saying. And any statement I make would only
reflect my feelings, not my employer official position.
What I really mean is that all our users are using 2.x and quite happy with
it, so it will take time before 3.x is heavily used in production. And
we'll have to support the 2.x branch for a long time anyway.
The main problem I have is that atm I don't see anything in 3.x that is
incentive enough to switch at the cost of stabilising and maintaining a
brand new branch. I consider 2.x stable and good, so I'd rather spend my
time on stuff I consider more important (mainly fabric those days).
> I do not care either way, just want to know where to focus efforts.
>
Yes, and I do understand that. I'm not a fortune teller. It's a chicken
and egg problem: 3.x isn't much used, so it's not being stabilised, which
does not help adoption ... I think having a first RC on trunk will
definitely help people trying it and stabilising, but I think it will still
be months before 3.x is really stable production ready.
For your actual problem, what you could do is try to evaluate how much it
would cost to switch back to a stable 2.x branch and weight that with the
cost of helping stabilising it.
>
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> <gn...@gmail.com>
> To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
> Cc: "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com> <ja...@gmail.com>,
> "dev@karaf.apache.org" <de...@karaf.apache.org> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 08:43:12 PM CDT
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Andrei Pozolotin <
> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Guillaume:
>>
>> no, snapshots are no good.
>>
>> explanation:
>>
>> we were trying to run in semi-production mode on karaf 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT for
>> last 6 month or so.
>>
>> problematic patterns:
>>
>> 1) some snapshots are good, some are really bad - karaf not even start
>> 2) daily snapshot pull is too much toll on developers - waste of time
>> 3) there is no easy way to go back to find out what/where was good /
>> revert to last known good.
>>
>
> That's the problem with automated builds. Having automated monthly RCs
> would not help in any way.
> What you're looking for is stability, not automated builds.
>
>
>>
>> issue at hand:
>>
>> this used to work some 3 months back, but broken now:
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2180
>>
>> now you will cut RC1, with this bug baked in,
>> and then I have to wait for next 2 years to get RC2 :-)
>> I do not mind the bug, I mind 2 year wait / lack of periodic RC freeze.
>>
>> example from another project:
>> netty is not afraid to release 8 alphas and 2 betas in 6 month
>> http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cnetty
>>
>> I am not asking you to be an Oracle and release java every day,
>> but can you please be Google with their monthly chrome releases? :-)
>>
>
> The real problem with 3.x is lack of focus from the community, nothing
> else. It's not a technical problem: trying to do more releases won't help,
> as the problem is really to focus on those releases.
> And again, this stability / release problem is not really present on 2.x
> branches.
> Btw, what features in 3.x were important to you so that you choose to use
> this version instead of 2.x ? One possibility may be to backport those to
> 2.4.x branch ...
>
>
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Andrei.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> <gn...@gmail.com>
>> To: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> <ja...@gmail.com>
>> Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>,
>> "dev@karaf.apache.org" <de...@karaf.apache.org> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:33:49 PM CDT
>>
>> I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei. We have nightly
>> builds already. Aren't those sufficient ?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Jamie:
>>> >
>>> > cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>> >
>>> > Andrei
>>> >
>>> > -------- Original Message --------
>>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> > From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>> > Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>> >
>>> > Sorry for jumping in here,
>>> >
>>> > Apache builds require approval before release:
>>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>> >
>>> > As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>>> > community to my best understanding.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Jamie
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>> > <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Guillaume:
>>> >
>>> > how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>> >
>>> > Andrei.
>>> >
>>> > -------- Original Message --------
>>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> > From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>>> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>> > andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>> > *
>>> > FYI:
>>> >
>>> > 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>> > releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>> >
>>> > Thx for the heads up.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>> > karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>> >
>>> > Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third
>>> party
>>> > dependencies.
>>> > When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be
>>> fixed.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>> > promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>> >
>>> > And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically
>>> speaking,
>>> > trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thank you,
>>> >
>>> > Andrei
>>> >
>>> > -------- Original Message --------
>>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>> > Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>> >
>>> > Hi Andrei,
>>> >
>>> > I understand your point.
>>> >
>>> > Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>> > the minimal distribution and framework:
>>> >
>>> > - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>> > it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>> > - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>> > the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>> >
>>> > I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> > JB
>>> >
>>> > On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>> >
>>> > *Jean-Baptiste*
>>> >
>>> > I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>> > subsystem is possible.
>>> >
>>> > For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not
>>> need
>>> > Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>> >
>>> > this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there
>>> are
>>> > no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you,
>>> >
>>> > Andrei
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>>
>> Email: gnodet@redhat.com
>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>
> Email: gnodet@redhat.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Red Hat, Open Source Integration
Email: gnodet@redhat.com
Web: http://fusesource.com
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>.
Guillaume
what you say sounds like
""3.x is dead on arrival, and Red Hat will support only 2.x development".
can you please make some kind of "official" statement?
I do not care either way, just want to know where to focus efforts.
Andrei
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
To: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
<de...@karaf.apache.org>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 08:43:12 PM CDT
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Guillaume:
>
> no, snapshots are no good.
>
> explanation:
>
> we were trying to run in semi-production mode on karaf
> 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT for last 6 month or so.
>
> problematic patterns:
>
> 1) some snapshots are good, some are really bad - karaf not even start
> 2) daily snapshot pull is too much toll on developers - waste of time
> 3) there is no easy way to go back to find out what/where was good
> / revert to last known good.
>
>
> That's the problem with automated builds. Having automated monthly
> RCs would not help in any way.
> What you're looking for is stability, not automated builds.
>
>
>
> issue at hand:
>
> this used to work some 3 months back, but broken now:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2180
>
> now you will cut RC1, with this bug baked in,
> and then I have to wait for next 2 years to get RC2 :-)
> I do not mind the bug, I mind 2 year wait / lack of periodic RC
> freeze.
>
> example from another project:
> netty is not afraid to release 8 alphas and 2 betas in 6 month
> http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cnetty
>
> I am not asking you to be an Oracle and release java every day,
> but can you please be Google with their monthly chrome releases? :-)
>
>
> The real problem with 3.x is lack of focus from the community, nothing
> else. It's not a technical problem: trying to do more releases won't
> help, as the problem is really to focus on those releases.
> And again, this stability / release problem is not really present on
> 2.x branches.
> Btw, what features in 3.x were important to you so that you choose to
> use this version instead of 2.x ? One possibility may be to backport
> those to 2.4.x branch ...
>
>
>
> cheers,
>
> Andrei.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> <ma...@gmail.com>
> To: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> <ma...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>
> <ma...@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
> <ma...@karaf.apache.org> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:33:49 PM CDT
>> I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei. We have
>> nightly builds already. Aren't those sufficient ?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G.
>> <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from
>> Apache -
>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are
>> available for
>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com
>> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > Jamie:
>> >
>> > cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> > From: Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com
>> <ma...@gmail.com>>
>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
>> > Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com
>> <ma...@gmail.com>>
>> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>> >
>> > Sorry for jumping in here,
>> >
>> > Apache builds require approval before release:
>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>> >
>> > As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>> > community to my best understanding.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Jamie
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> > <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com
>> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Guillaume:
>> >
>> > how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release,
>> w/o vote?
>> >
>> > Andrei.
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> > From: Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com
>> <ma...@gmail.com>>
>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
>> <dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>>
>> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>> > andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com
>> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>> > *
>> > FYI:
>> >
>> > 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental
>> cascaded
>> > releases from any level of dependency tree:
>> >
>> >
>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>> >
>> > Thx for the heads up.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases
>> and release
>> > karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>> >
>> > Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting
>> for third party
>> > dependencies.
>> > When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting
>> to be fixed.
>> >
>> >
>> > 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2
>> weeks" was
>> > promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>> >
>> > And this has nothing to do with the release process.
>> Technically speaking,
>> > trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net
>> <ma...@nanthrax.net>>
>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
>> > Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>> >
>> > Hi Andrei,
>> >
>> > I understand your point.
>> >
>> > Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the
>> purpose of
>> > the minimal distribution and framework:
>> >
>> > - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container
>> (however,
>> > it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles
>> use it)
>> > - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the
>> purpose is to let
>> > the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>> >
>> > I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > JB
>> >
>> > On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>> >
>> > *Jean-Baptiste*
>> >
>> > I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so
>> release by
>> > subsystem is possible.
>> >
>> > For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which
>> does not need
>> > Aries, why should I wait for it?
>> >
>> > this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back,
>> so there are
>> > no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>>
>> Email: gnodet@redhat.com <ma...@redhat.com>
>> Web: http://fusesource.com <http://fusesource.com/>
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>
> Email: gnodet@redhat.com <ma...@redhat.com>
> Web: http://fusesource.com <http://fusesource.com/>
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Andrei Pozolotin <
andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guillaume:
>
> no, snapshots are no good.
>
> explanation:
>
> we were trying to run in semi-production mode on karaf 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT for
> last 6 month or so.
>
> problematic patterns:
>
> 1) some snapshots are good, some are really bad - karaf not even start
> 2) daily snapshot pull is too much toll on developers - waste of time
> 3) there is no easy way to go back to find out what/where was good /
> revert to last known good.
>
That's the problem with automated builds. Having automated monthly RCs
would not help in any way.
What you're looking for is stability, not automated builds.
>
> issue at hand:
>
> this used to work some 3 months back, but broken now:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2180
>
> now you will cut RC1, with this bug baked in,
> and then I have to wait for next 2 years to get RC2 :-)
> I do not mind the bug, I mind 2 year wait / lack of periodic RC freeze.
>
> example from another project:
> netty is not afraid to release 8 alphas and 2 betas in 6 month
> http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cnetty
>
> I am not asking you to be an Oracle and release java every day,
> but can you please be Google with their monthly chrome releases? :-)
>
The real problem with 3.x is lack of focus from the community, nothing
else. It's not a technical problem: trying to do more releases won't help,
as the problem is really to focus on those releases.
And again, this stability / release problem is not really present on 2.x
branches.
Btw, what features in 3.x were important to you so that you choose to use
this version instead of 2.x ? One possibility may be to backport those to
2.4.x branch ...
>
> cheers,
>
> Andrei.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> <gn...@gmail.com>
> To: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> <ja...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>,
> "dev@karaf.apache.org" <de...@karaf.apache.org> <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:33:49 PM CDT
>
> I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei. We have nightly
> builds already. Aren't those sufficient ?
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
>> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
>> integration purposes in the mean time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Jamie:
>> >
>> > cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> > From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> > Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>> >
>> > Sorry for jumping in here,
>> >
>> > Apache builds require approval before release:
>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>> >
>> > As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>> > community to my best understanding.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Jamie
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> > <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Guillaume:
>> >
>> > how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>> >
>> > Andrei.
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> > From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>> > andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>> > *
>> > FYI:
>> >
>> > 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>> > releases from any level of dependency tree:
>> >
>> >
>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>> >
>> > Thx for the heads up.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>> > karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>> >
>> > Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third
>> party
>> > dependencies.
>> > When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>> >
>> >
>> > 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>> > promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>> >
>> > And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically
>> speaking,
>> > trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> > Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>> >
>> > Hi Andrei,
>> >
>> > I understand your point.
>> >
>> > Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>> > the minimal distribution and framework:
>> >
>> > - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>> > it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>> > - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>> > the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>> >
>> > I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > JB
>> >
>> > On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>> >
>> > *Jean-Baptiste*
>> >
>> > I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>> > subsystem is possible.
>> >
>> > For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>> > Aries, why should I wait for it?
>> >
>> > this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>> > no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Andrei
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>
> Email: gnodet@redhat.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Red Hat, Open Source Integration
Email: gnodet@redhat.com
Web: http://fusesource.com
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>.
Guillaume:
no, snapshots are no good.
explanation:
we were trying to run in semi-production mode on karaf 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT
for last 6 month or so.
problematic patterns:
1) some snapshots are good, some are really bad - karaf not even start
2) daily snapshot pull is too much toll on developers - waste of time
3) there is no easy way to go back to find out what/where was good /
revert to last known good.
issue at hand:
this used to work some 3 months back, but broken now:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2180
now you will cut RC1, with this bug baked in,
and then I have to wait for next 2 years to get RC2 :-)
I do not mind the bug, I mind 2 year wait / lack of periodic RC freeze.
example from another project:
netty is not afraid to release 8 alphas and 2 betas in 6 month
http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cnetty
I am not asking you to be an Oracle and release java every day,
but can you please be Google with their monthly chrome releases? :-)
cheers,
Andrei.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
To: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>,
"dev@karaf.apache.org" <de...@karaf.apache.org>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:33:49 PM CDT
> I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei. We have
> nightly builds already. Aren't those sufficient ?
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
> integration purposes in the mean time.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > Jamie:
> >
> > cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
> >
> > Andrei
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> > From: Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>>
> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
> > Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
> >
> > Sorry for jumping in here,
> >
> > Apache builds require approval before release:
> > http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
> >
> > As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
> > community to my best understanding.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jamie
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> > <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Guillaume:
> >
> > how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
> >
> > Andrei.
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> > From: Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
> <dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>>
> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
> > andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
> > *
> > FYI:
> >
> > 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
> > releases from any level of dependency tree:
> >
> >
> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
> >
> > Thx for the heads up.
> >
> >
> > 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and
> release
> > karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
> >
> > Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for
> third party
> > dependencies.
> > When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to
> be fixed.
> >
> >
> > 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2
> weeks" was
> > promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
> >
> > And this has nothing to do with the release process.
> Technically speaking,
> > trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Andrei
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net
> <ma...@nanthrax.net>>
> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
> > Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
> >
> > Hi Andrei,
> >
> > I understand your point.
> >
> > Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
> > the minimal distribution and framework:
> >
> > - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container
> (however,
> > it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
> > - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is
> to let
> > the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
> >
> > I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
> >
> > *Jean-Baptiste*
> >
> > I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so
> release by
> > subsystem is possible.
> >
> > For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does
> not need
> > Aries, why should I wait for it?
> >
> > this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so
> there are
> > no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Andrei
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>
> Email: gnodet@redhat.com <ma...@redhat.com>
> Web: http://fusesource.com <http://fusesource.com/>
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei. We have nightly
builds already. Aren't those sufficient ?
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
> that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
> integration purposes in the mean time.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Jamie:
> >
> > cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
> >
> > Andrei
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> > From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> > Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
> >
> > Sorry for jumping in here,
> >
> > Apache builds require approval before release:
> > http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
> >
> > As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
> > community to my best understanding.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jamie
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> > <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Guillaume:
> >
> > how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
> >
> > Andrei.
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> > From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
> > andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
> > *
> > FYI:
> >
> > 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
> > releases from any level of dependency tree:
> >
> > https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
> >
> > Thx for the heads up.
> >
> >
> > 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
> > karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
> >
> > Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
> > dependencies.
> > When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
> >
> >
> > 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
> > promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
> >
> > And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically
> speaking,
> > trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Andrei
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> > To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> > Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
> >
> > Hi Andrei,
> >
> > I understand your point.
> >
> > Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
> > the minimal distribution and framework:
> >
> > - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
> > it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
> > - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
> > the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
> >
> > I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
> >
> > *Jean-Baptiste*
> >
> > I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
> > subsystem is possible.
> >
> > For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
> > Aries, why should I wait for it?
> >
> > this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
> > no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Andrei
> >
> >
> >
>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Red Hat, Open Source Integration
Email: gnodet@redhat.com
Web: http://fusesource.com
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from Apache -
that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are available for
integration purposes in the mean time.
Cheers,
Jamie
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jamie:
>
> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>
> Sorry for jumping in here,
>
> Apache builds require approval before release:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>
> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
> community to my best understanding.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Guillaume:
>
> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>
> Andrei.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
> *
> FYI:
>
> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>
> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>
> Thx for the heads up.
>
>
> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>
> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
> dependencies.
> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>
>
> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>
> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>
> Hi Andrei,
>
> I understand your point.
>
> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
> the minimal distribution and framework:
>
> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>
> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>
> *Jean-Baptiste*
>
> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
> subsystem is possible.
>
> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>
> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrei
>
>
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>.
On Mar 12, 2013, at 8:28 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jamie:
>
> cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
If it is "distributed" via the mirror system and Maven central and stuff, it's a release and would need a vote.
For anything else, we have (or should have) nightly SNAPSHOT builds that people can grab.
Dan
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>> Sorry for jumping in here,
>>
>> Apache builds require approval before release:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>
>> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>> community to my best understanding.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Guillaume:
>>>
>>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>>
>>> Andrei.
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>>>> *
>>>>> FYI:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>>> Thx for the heads up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>>>
>>>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>>>> dependencies.
>>>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>>>
>>>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>>>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand your point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>>>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>>>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>>>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>>>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>>>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>>>>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>>>>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>>>>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>
--
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>.
Jamie:
cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
Andrei
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Jamie G. <ja...@gmail.com>
To: dev@karaf.apache.org
Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
> Sorry for jumping in here,
>
> Apache builds require approval before release:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>
> As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
> community to my best understanding.
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Guillaume:
>>
>> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>>
>> Andrei.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
>> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>>> *
>>>> FYI:
>>>>
>>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>> Thx for the heads up.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>>
>>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>>> dependencies.
>>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>>
>>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand your point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>>>
>>>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> JB
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>>>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>>>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>>>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by "Jamie G." <ja...@gmail.com>.
Sorry for jumping in here,
Apache builds require approval before release:
http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
community to my best understanding.
Cheers,
Jamie
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guillaume:
>
> how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
>
> Andrei.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
> Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>> *
>>> FYI:
>>>
>>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>
>> Thx for the heads up.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>>
>> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
>> dependencies.
>> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>>
>>
>>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>>
>> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
>> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>
>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>>
>>>> I understand your point.
>>>>
>>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>>
>>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> JB
>>>>
>>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>>>
>>>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>>>
>>>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Andrei Pozolotin <an...@gmail.com>.
Guillaume:
how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release, w/o vote?
Andrei.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>
To: dev@karaf.apache.org <de...@karaf.apache.org>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
> andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>> *
>> FYI:
>>
>> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
>> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>
>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>
> Thx for the heads up.
>
>
>>
>> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
>> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>
> Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
> dependencies.
> When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>
>
>> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
>> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>
> And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
> trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>
>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>
>>> I understand your point.
>>>
>>> Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
>>> the minimal distribution and framework:
>>>
>>> - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
>>> it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
>>> - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
>>> the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>>
>>> I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>> On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>>> *Jean-Baptiste*
>>>>
>>>> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
>>>> subsystem is possible.
>>>>
>>>> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
>>>> Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>>>
>>>> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
>>>> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
Re: release by subsystem
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
> *
> FYI:
>
> 1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental cascaded
> releases from any level of dependency tree:
>
> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
Thx for the heads up.
>
>
> 2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases and release
> karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>
Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting for third party
dependencies.
When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting to be fixed.
>
> 3) IIRC, the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2 weeks" was
> promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>
And this has nothing to do with the release process. Technically speaking,
trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrei
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: release by subsystem
> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
> Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
> > Hi Andrei,
> >
> > I understand your point.
> >
> > Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the purpose of
> > the minimal distribution and framework:
> >
> > - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container (however,
> > it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles use it)
> > - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the purpose is to let
> > the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
> >
> > I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
> >> *Jean-Baptiste*
> >>
> >> I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so release by
> >> subsystem is possible.
> >>
> >> For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which does not need
> >> Aries, why should I wait for it?
> >>
> >> this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back, so there are
> >> no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >> Andrei
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Red Hat, Open Source Integration
Email: gnodet@redhat.com
Web: http://fusesource.com
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/