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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> on 2007/06/30 13:11:52 UTC
Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Lenya devs,
The 1.4 release has taken almost 3 years to develop, and in the
process it has become a rather major rewrite of Lenya. Does it
warrant being called 2.0? When the release is finally announced, a
2.0 designation might grab more attention, which is a good thing.
To me a new major version number implies:
* major architectural changes
* significant upgrade effort
* major new functionality
* lots of cool new things to learn about
and a ".0" minor version implies:
* some risk of bugginess, until the ".1" or ".01" release comes out.
That describes the current Lenya code pretty well.
I think the only real cost of the change would be updating the
documentation, wiki and bugzilla, which I would be happy to do.
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
On Thu, 2007-07-05 at 08:46 -0600, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> -0 The community knows the next release is 1.4. There is a lot of mails
> referring to "1.4" If suddenly we jump to 2.0 no body knows from where
> it was take.
Hmm, you and solprovider have a valid point there. Right now lots of
mails start with [1.4] (even on the user list).
>
> I don't feel I have enough merit these days in lenya to vote -1, but
> this is what I would like to vote for this change.
>
Hmm, you have enough to vote -1, which is a binding -1 since you are in
the PMC. If you feel strong enough, then please vote -1.
In any case we may want to ask our user as well what they think about
the renaming issue. It would be a pity if we confuse them.
salu2
> Best Regards,
>
> Antonio Gallardo.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Antonio Gallardo.
>
> solprovider@apache.org escribió:
> > On 7/4/07, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Lenya devs,
> >>
> >> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> >> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> >> previously-planned "1.4".
> >>
> >> The reason for this proposed change is to more accurately signify the
> >> scope and depth of the changes to the Lenya architecture and feature
> >> set. Please see the previous e-mail thread for the prior discussion.
> >>
> >> Voting is open for a period of one week, per Lenya guidelines.
> >
> > -0
> >
> > The reasons and advantages to renaming are:
> > - The functionality is very different.
> > - The upgrade path from 1.2 is difficult.
> > - Different knowledge/skills are needed.
> > - Marketing press releases like major number releases.
> > .
> > The disadvantage is the community knows the next release as 1.4. Many
> > people are using various development versions. Changing the name will
> > cause confusion. Directories are often named with the version number
> > so this increases the work of "upgrading'" to the production release.
> > "2.0" sounds less stable than "1.4.0". The old skills still apply, but
> > this may discourage less innovative developers.
> >
> > Changing the version number may attract a new audience, but may damage
> > the current community. I am not certain the change will accomplish
> > enough to offset the effort.
> >
> > solprovider
> >
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>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
-0 The community knows the next release is 1.4. There is a lot of mails
referring to "1.4" If suddenly we jump to 2.0 no body knows from where
it was take.
I don't feel I have enough merit these days in lenya to vote -1, but
this is what I would like to vote for this change.
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
solprovider@apache.org escribió:
> On 7/4/07, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lenya devs,
>>
>> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
>> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
>> previously-planned "1.4".
>>
>> The reason for this proposed change is to more accurately signify the
>> scope and depth of the changes to the Lenya architecture and feature
>> set. Please see the previous e-mail thread for the prior discussion.
>>
>> Voting is open for a period of one week, per Lenya guidelines.
>
> -0
>
> The reasons and advantages to renaming are:
> - The functionality is very different.
> - The upgrade path from 1.2 is difficult.
> - Different knowledge/skills are needed.
> - Marketing press releases like major number releases.
> .
> The disadvantage is the community knows the next release as 1.4. Many
> people are using various development versions. Changing the name will
> cause confusion. Directories are often named with the version number
> so this increases the work of "upgrading'" to the production release.
> "2.0" sounds less stable than "1.4.0". The old skills still apply, but
> this may discourage less innovative developers.
>
> Changing the version number may attract a new audience, but may damage
> the current community. I am not certain the change will accomplish
> enough to offset the effort.
>
> solprovider
>
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by so...@apache.org.
On 7/4/07, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
>
> The reason for this proposed change is to more accurately signify the
> scope and depth of the changes to the Lenya architecture and feature
> set. Please see the previous e-mail thread for the prior discussion.
>
> Voting is open for a period of one week, per Lenya guidelines.
-0
The reasons and advantages to renaming are:
- The functionality is very different.
- The upgrade path from 1.2 is difficult.
- Different knowledge/skills are needed.
- Marketing press releases like major number releases.
.
The disadvantage is the community knows the next release as 1.4. Many
people are using various development versions. Changing the name will
cause confusion. Directories are often named with the version number
so this increases the work of "upgrading'" to the production release.
"2.0" sounds less stable than "1.4.0". The old skills still apply, but
this may discourage less innovative developers.
Changing the version number may attract a new audience, but may damage
the current community. I am not certain the change will accomplish
enough to offset the effort.
solprovider
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Bob Harner wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
+0
Michi
>
> The reason for this proposed change is to more accurately signify the
> scope and depth of the changes to the Lenya architecture and feature
> set. Please see the previous e-mail thread for the prior discussion.
>
> Voting is open for a period of one week, per Lenya guidelines.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lenya.apache.org
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Yanel, Yulup
http://www.wyona.com
michael.wechner@wyona.com, michi@apache.org
+41 44 272 91 61
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Bob Harner schrieb:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
+1
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
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Re: Bugzilla Admin (was Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?)
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
On 7/12/07, Gregor J. Rothfuss <gr...@apache.org> wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 06:46 -0400, Bob Harner wrote:
> > ...
> >> Thorsten: can you add "2.0" and "2.0.1" Target Milestones in Bugzilla?
> >> These will be the targets for the existing 1.4 and 1.4.1 bugs.
> >
> > Actually it seems I am not bugzilla admin. I thought I am. Gregor can
> > you add me and maybe some other to the admins.
>
> i cannot. you need to file a ticket with the asf sysadmins.
I submitted the request, as https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-1293
According to http://apache.org/dev/reporting-issues.html such requests
need to come from a PMC member, but we'll see if they do it anyway.
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Re: Bugzilla Admin (was Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?)
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 06:46 -0400, Bob Harner wrote:
> ...
>> Thorsten: can you add "2.0" and "2.0.1" Target Milestones in Bugzilla?
>> These will be the targets for the existing 1.4 and 1.4.1 bugs.
>
> Actually it seems I am not bugzilla admin. I thought I am. Gregor can
> you add me and maybe some other to the admins.
i cannot. you need to file a ticket with the asf sysadmins.
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Bugzilla Admin (was Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 06:46 -0400, Bob Harner wrote:
...
> Thorsten: can you add "2.0" and "2.0.1" Target Milestones in Bugzilla?
> These will be the targets for the existing 1.4 and 1.4.1 bugs.
Actually it seems I am not bugzilla admin. I thought I am. Gregor can
you add me and maybe some other to the admins.
TIA
salu2
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Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
On 7/4/07, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
>
> The reason for this proposed change is to more accurately signify the
> scope and depth of the changes to the Lenya architecture and feature
> set. Please see the previous e-mail thread for the prior discussion.
>
> Voting is open for a period of one week, per Lenya guidelines.
>
A week has elapsed and the vote has passed by a strong majority:
+1 Andreas
+1 Thorsten
+1 Bob
+0 Michael
+1 Jann
-0 Solprovider
+1 Joachim
-1 Antonio
+1 Gregor
+1 Richard
So now we can begin the 1.4-to-2.0 renaming process. I will do some
over the next couple of days while the many of you are in Zürich, and
will try to finish most of it this weekend. I have already done quite
a bit of analysis of the changes needed (in wiki, bugzilla, forest
docs and source code) and the task doesn't seem too hard. But be
prepared for a flood of e-mail from the commits and wiki changes.
Help is certainly welcome, but if anyone plans on doing any bulk CVS
changes please announce it first so we aren't duplicating the effort.
Thorsten: can you add "2.0" and "2.0.1" Target Milestones in Bugzilla?
These will be the targets for the existing 1.4 and 1.4.1 bugs.
Thanks for voting, everyone!
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Jann Forrer <ja...@id.uzh.ch>.
Bob Harner wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
>
+1
Jann
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Bob Harner wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
>
> The reason for this proposed change is to more accurately signify the
> scope and depth of the changes to the Lenya architecture and feature
> set. Please see the previous e-mail thread for the prior discussion.
>
> Voting is open for a period of one week, per Lenya guidelines.
+1
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Joachim Wolfgang Kaltz <jo...@uni-due.de>.
Bob Harner schrieb:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
+1
Wolfgang
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Richard Frovarp <Ri...@sendit.nodak.edu>.
Bob Harner wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
>
> The reason for this proposed change is to more accurately signify the
> scope and depth of the changes to the Lenya architecture and feature
> set. Please see the previous e-mail thread for the prior discussion.
>
> Voting is open for a period of one week, per Lenya guidelines.
+1
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
+1
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 07:17 -0400, Bob Harner wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
+1
salu2
--
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Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions
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Re: [VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Jörn Nettingsmeier <ne...@apache.org>.
Bob Harner wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
> version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
> previously-planned "1.4".
>
> The reason for this proposed change is to more accurately signify the
> scope and depth of the changes to the Lenya architecture and feature
> set. Please see the previous e-mail thread for the prior discussion.
i'm with bob in that the amount of new code warrants a major version bump.
contrary to michi, i think calling it "2.0" is not about hyping up our
product, but about communicating precisely that there is a lot of new
stuff. on the contrary, a "dot-zero" release sounds more honest to me
than 1.4, which implies "maintenance release with some new features".
hence i'm +1.
but i also think that solprovider's and antonio's remarks are important.
sorry for not entering this discussion earlier (before the vote).
if this vote passes, imho we should nonetheless raise the issue on the
user's list, clarify our intentions and ask for comments before
re-numbering the release.
regards,
jörn
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Kurt is up in heaven now.
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[VOTE] Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
Lenya devs,
As previously discussed, please vote whether to use "2.0" as the
version number of the next release of the Lenya trunk rather than the
previously-planned "1.4".
The reason for this proposed change is to more accurately signify the
scope and depth of the changes to the Lenya architecture and feature
set. Please see the previous e-mail thread for the prior discussion.
Voting is open for a period of one week, per Lenya guidelines.
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Re: Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
On Sat, 2007-06-30 at 07:11 -0400, Bob Harner wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> The 1.4 release has taken almost 3 years to develop, and in the
> process it has become a rather major rewrite of Lenya. Does it
> warrant being called 2.0? When the release is finally announced, a
> 2.0 designation might grab more attention, which is a good thing.
Thanks Bob for bringing this up and explain your reasoning.
I agree that 2.0 fit better then 1.4 for all the reasons you gave.
To make it official someone needs to call a vote.
salu2
--
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Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions
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Re: Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
On 7/1/07, Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> wrote:
> Bob Harner wrote:
>
> > Lenya devs,
> >
> > The 1.4 release has taken almost 3 years to develop, and in the
> > process it has become a rather major rewrite of Lenya. Does it
> > warrant being called 2.0? When the release is finally announced, a
> > 2.0 designation might grab more attention, which is a good thing.
>
>
> do you really want to outsmart people, because this is what it sounds to me?
>
> I don't think the ASF is about marketing people into something, but
> rather providing great code/product and
> because of that people will start using it. But that means patience ...
Sure, I agree with that. And I am only proposing calling it 2.0
because I honestly consider the changes substantial enough. The
restructuring of the application into modules, the switch to UUID's,
all the refactoring and API improvements that Andreas and others have
done, the much more extensive support for publication templating and
fallback, the New Publication Wizard... There are probably a dozen
major changes -- disruptive things which took a long time to work out
-- that might collectively justify a 2.0 designation.
Anyway, it's just a proposal I threw out there. I wonder what others think?
> > To me a new major version number implies:
> >
> > * major architectural changes
> > * significant upgrade effort
>
> I am afraid that this (upgrade effort) is very true
>
> > * major new functionality
> > * lots of cool new things to learn about
>
> btw, is there a list of all the new functionality and cool things to
> learn yet?
http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/ lists 8 things under the topic
"What's New in Lenya 1.4". We could and should come up with a much
larger list, though.
> Cheers
>
> Michael
>
> >
> > and a ".0" minor version implies:
> >
> > * some risk of bugginess, until the ".1" or ".01" release comes out.
> >
> > That describes the current Lenya code pretty well.
> >
> > I think the only real cost of the change would be updating the
> > documentation, wiki and bugzilla, which I would be happy to do.
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Re: Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Bob Harner wrote:
> Lenya devs,
>
> The 1.4 release has taken almost 3 years to develop, and in the
> process it has become a rather major rewrite of Lenya. Does it
> warrant being called 2.0? When the release is finally announced, a
> 2.0 designation might grab more attention, which is a good thing.
do you really want to outsmart people, because this is what it sounds to me?
I don't think the ASF is about marketing people into something, but
rather providing great code/product and
because of that people will start using it. But that means patience ...
>
> To me a new major version number implies:
>
> * major architectural changes
> * significant upgrade effort
I am afraid that this (upgrade effort) is very true
> * major new functionality
> * lots of cool new things to learn about
btw, is there a list of all the new functionality and cool things to
learn yet?
Cheers
Michael
>
> and a ".0" minor version implies:
>
> * some risk of bugginess, until the ".1" or ".01" release comes out.
>
> That describes the current Lenya code pretty well.
>
> I think the only real cost of the change would be updating the
> documentation, wiki and bugzilla, which I would be happy to do.
>
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>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Yanel, Yulup
http://www.wyona.com
michael.wechner@wyona.com, michi@apache.org
+41 44 272 91 61
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Re: Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Bob Harner schrieb:
>> Lenya devs,
>>
>> The 1.4 release has taken almost 3 years to develop, and in the
>> process it has become a rather major rewrite of Lenya. Does it
>> warrant being called 2.0? When the release is finally announced, a
>> 2.0 designation might grab more attention, which is a good thing.
>
> I think this is a good idea - not primarily because of the increased
> attention, but because of the points you mentioned below.
agreed. a blatant version increase would be to go directly to 5.0 or to
"lenya professional 2007". this is a similar step of httpd from 1.3 to 2.0.
>> To me a new major version number implies:
>>
>> * major architectural changes
>> * significant upgrade effort
>> * major new functionality
>> * lots of cool new things to learn about
>
> +1
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_versioning
>
> "[...] the major number is increased when there are significant jumps
> in functionality [...]"
>
> IMO this is the case in our situation.
+1
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Re: Rename Lenya 1.4 to 2.0?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Bob Harner schrieb:
> Lenya devs,
>
> The 1.4 release has taken almost 3 years to develop, and in the
> process it has become a rather major rewrite of Lenya. Does it
> warrant being called 2.0? When the release is finally announced, a
> 2.0 designation might grab more attention, which is a good thing.
I think this is a good idea - not primarily because of the increased
attention, but because of the points you mentioned below.
> To me a new major version number implies:
>
> * major architectural changes
> * significant upgrade effort
> * major new functionality
> * lots of cool new things to learn about
+1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_versioning
"[...] the major number is increased when there are significant jumps
in functionality [...]"
IMO this is the case in our situation.
-- Andreas
>
> and a ".0" minor version implies:
>
> * some risk of bugginess, until the ".1" or ".01" release comes out.
>
> That describes the current Lenya code pretty well.
>
> I think the only real cost of the change would be updating the
> documentation, wiki and bugzilla, which I would be happy to do.
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
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