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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com> on 2017/04/19 20:19:38 UTC
Trouble child OpenOffice
Hi people
I want to raise a question here. I know, we have to solve our problems our
self, but maybe here are people with ideas. OpenOffice has a big community
problem. The community was simply melted away in the last year. We have at
the moment no Company who offer devs. And the rest of the community fights
the absolutely urgent issues. There was already a discussion about
retirement, it was refused. But this doesn't mean we are out of the danger
zone.
The sweet part of this story is our user base. We have 100'000 Downloads
EVERY single DAY. I mean, this is crazy. We have really loyal users. We
get also frequently messages from user who just want to say "thank you".
The sad thing about this is, they have actually no chance to do something
for the program. They are looked out. Remember, they are normal users,
they are no developers. They are typically private users or small
companies. But imagine what happened if only a small part of our users pay
20$.
We really need devs and we need skilled one, because OpenOffice is
challenging for programmers. Companies with a load of money has a easy way
to influence an Apache project. Simply pay a developer, that's it. But
people without big pocket are simply looked out. (if they have no
programmer skills) That's not fair!
How to solve this problem? Thanks a load.
Regards Raphael
--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Issac Goldstand <ma...@beamartyr.net>.
+1
As a silent observer of AOO for years, I've seen this come up and be
hashed many times internally. I think it's a sort of unique TLP with
it's own unique issues, and that the exposure to the rest of the ASF
here might bring up some fresh ideas.
On 4/21/2017 7:08 AM, Raphael Bircher wrote:
> Hi Ted
>
> Am .04.2017, 00:35 Uhr, schrieb Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Raphael Bircher
>> <rb...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
>>>> the fact that
>>>> it is both a product and a project.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's a bit provocative. What would happened if we drop the product, but
>>> don't retire as a project.
>>
>>
>> Could this go to the OO lists?
>
> Yes and no. I will start a thread at the OpenOffice Dev, but I want also
> to keep this tread open. I find it really healthy to brainstorm here.
> Here are other options and People who watch from a different angle.
> That's a really good thing.
>
> Regards Raphael
>
>
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ted
Am .04.2017, 00:35 Uhr, schrieb Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Raphael Bircher
> <rb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
>>> the fact that
>>> it is both a product and a project.
>>>
>>
>> It's a bit provocative. What would happened if we drop the product, but
>> don't retire as a project.
>
>
> Could this go to the OO lists?
Yes and no. I will start a thread at the OpenOffice Dev, but I want also
to keep this tread open. I find it really healthy to brainstorm here. Here
are other options and People who watch from a different angle. That's a
really good thing.
Regards Raphael
--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
>> the fact that
>> it is both a product and a project.
>>
>
> It's a bit provocative. What would happened if we drop the product, but
> don't retire as a project.
Could this go to the OO lists?
Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Raphael Bircher
<rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Roman
>
>> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
>> the fact that
>> it is both a product and a project.
>
> It's a bit provocative. What would happened if we drop the product, but
> don't retire as a project.
True story; Apache Subversion ships no binaries, yet is build-able on most
older and all the most recent operating systems. There is a broad network
of different builds across all of these architectures. There are very platform
specific deviations; there were interesting Windows solutions long before
Microsoft took an interest and integrated it entirely into Visual Studio.
I don't know what it looks like, but I've long advocated for AOO to 'own'
the underlying document processing source code. Retain one GUI layer
as long as there are developers around it, but recognize that no single
implementation can be performant over the entire universe of UI
implementations, even those such as QT don't behave the same way
between Linux and Win32.
We aim to promulgate open standards by being the best implementation
of those standards. I don't anticipate LO or AOO walking away from some
sharing of the documentation code base. But if the ASF's releases will
further more implementors shared goals, then AOO will continue to
succeed in that aspect. If not, let closed providers such as LO keep
running with it, and allow Oracle to have succeeded in their goal.
There is the secondary effect of online document processing; few want
to be entirely crippled by an outage, but the convenience of the world
of Google Docs/Office 360 is very compelling. Unless there are great
solutions that straddle the two well, there is no connection between
these two interested communities.
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Hi Roman
Am .04.2017, 17:06 Uhr, schrieb Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>:
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Raphael Bircher
> <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ted
>>
>> Am .04.2017, 06:14 Uhr, schrieb Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Raphael,
>>>
>>> Why don't you get some folks together and start a company that solicits
>>> donations to support OO development and QA work?
>>
>>
>> That's the Apache like style, and that's exactly the reason why i write
>> to
>> community and not to the openoffice dev. We have many projects at big
>> data
>> who are really successful. How they handle this problem? How they get
>> paid
>> stuff involved into their projects. Maybe we can learn from it.
>
> It happens in exactly the way Ted is suggesting -- companies building
> product
> around Bigdata projects are handling client relationships and they pour
> $$$ back
> into the projects either via hiring more developers to work on them or
> by direct
> sponsorship of ASF or by promoting the projects via conferences,
> training, etc.
> OR all of the above ;-)
>
> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
> the fact that
> it is both a product and a project.
It's a bit provocative. What would happened if we drop the product, but
don't retire as a project.
Regards Raphael
--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Am .04.2017, 06:30 Uhr, schrieb Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>:
> Hadrian / Raphael,
>
> I will be at Apachecon Miami and open for any opportunity. Will either
> of you be there?
Unfortunately I'm not. But how about meeting on a chat, videochat?
Regards Raphael
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.
Yes, I'll be in Miami.
Cheers,
Hadrian
On 04/21/2017 12:30 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
> Hadrian / Raphael,
>
> I will be at Apachecon Miami and open for any opportunity. Will either of you be there?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 9:05 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 04/20/2017 11:06 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Raphael Bircher
>>> <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ted
>>>>
>>>> Am .04.2017, 06:14 Uhr, schrieb Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Raphael,
>>>>>
>>>>> Why don't you get some folks together and start a company that solicits
>>>>> donations to support OO development and QA work?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's the Apache like style, and that's exactly the reason why i write to
>>>> community and not to the openoffice dev. We have many projects at big data
>>>> who are really successful. How they handle this problem? How they get paid
>>>> stuff involved into their projects. Maybe we can learn from it.
>>>
>>> It happens in exactly the way Ted is suggesting -- companies building product
>>> around Bigdata projects are handling client relationships and they pour $$$ back
>>> into the projects either via hiring more developers to work on them or by direct
>>> sponsorship of ASF or by promoting the projects via conferences, training, etc.
>>> OR all of the above ;-)
>> Ok. I like a challenge. Raphael, how much, or what would it take to make what you suggest happen? I am willing to pony up some cash and other resources.
>>
>>>
>>> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
>>> the fact that
>>> it is both a product and a project.
>> That's not unique to OO. There are other projects that are a product too. Tomcat, ServiceMix, Archiva are examples.
>>
>> I see other challenges and opportunities (depending on how one looks at the glass). For instance the fact that both MS and Google, major competitors, have a cloud service offering.
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roman.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
>
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
Hadrian / Raphael,
I will be at Apachecon Miami and open for any opportunity. Will either of you be there?
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 20, 2017, at 9:05 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 04/20/2017 11:06 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Raphael Bircher
>> <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ted
>>>
>>> Am .04.2017, 06:14 Uhr, schrieb Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Raphael,
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you get some folks together and start a company that solicits
>>>> donations to support OO development and QA work?
>>>
>>>
>>> That's the Apache like style, and that's exactly the reason why i write to
>>> community and not to the openoffice dev. We have many projects at big data
>>> who are really successful. How they handle this problem? How they get paid
>>> stuff involved into their projects. Maybe we can learn from it.
>>
>> It happens in exactly the way Ted is suggesting -- companies building product
>> around Bigdata projects are handling client relationships and they pour $$$ back
>> into the projects either via hiring more developers to work on them or by direct
>> sponsorship of ASF or by promoting the projects via conferences, training, etc.
>> OR all of the above ;-)
> Ok. I like a challenge. Raphael, how much, or what would it take to make what you suggest happen? I am willing to pony up some cash and other resources.
>
>>
>> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
>> the fact that
>> it is both a product and a project.
> That's not unique to OO. There are other projects that are a product too. Tomcat, ServiceMix, Archiva are examples.
>
> I see other challenges and opportunities (depending on how one looks at the glass). For instance the fact that both MS and Google, major competitors, have a cloud service offering.
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>
>
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Hi Hadrian
Am .04.2017, 06:05 Uhr, schrieb Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>:
>
>
> On 04/20/2017 11:06 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Raphael Bircher
>> <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ted
>>>
>>> Am .04.2017, 06:14 Uhr, schrieb Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Raphael,
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you get some folks together and start a company that
>>>> solicits
>>>> donations to support OO development and QA work?
>>>
>>>
>>> That's the Apache like style, and that's exactly the reason why i
>>> write to
>>> community and not to the openoffice dev. We have many projects at big
>>> data
>>> who are really successful. How they handle this problem? How they get
>>> paid
>>> stuff involved into their projects. Maybe we can learn from it.
>>
>> It happens in exactly the way Ted is suggesting -- companies building
>> product
>> around Bigdata projects are handling client relationships and they pour
>> $$$ back
>> into the projects either via hiring more developers to work on them or
>> by direct
>> sponsorship of ASF or by promoting the projects via conferences,
>> training, etc.
>> OR all of the above ;-)
> Ok. I like a challenge. Raphael, how much, or what would it take to make
> what you suggest happen? I am willing to pony up some cash and other
> resources.
>
>>
>> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
>> the fact that
>> it is both a product and a project.
> That's not unique to OO. There are other projects that are a product
> too. Tomcat, ServiceMix, Archiva are examples.
>
> I see other challenges and opportunities (depending on how one looks at
> the glass). For instance the fact that both MS and Google, major
> competitors, have a cloud service offering.
At the ApacheCon Europe in Sinsheeim an employee from IBM have had a talk
about experiments for a Online version. It was interesting how crowded it
gets. Unfortunately it was not continued. An other frequent request is a
Version for IPad.
Just some ideas.
Regards Raphael
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.
On 04/20/2017 11:06 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Raphael Bircher
> <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ted
>>
>> Am .04.2017, 06:14 Uhr, schrieb Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Raphael,
>>>
>>> Why don't you get some folks together and start a company that solicits
>>> donations to support OO development and QA work?
>>
>>
>> That's the Apache like style, and that's exactly the reason why i write to
>> community and not to the openoffice dev. We have many projects at big data
>> who are really successful. How they handle this problem? How they get paid
>> stuff involved into their projects. Maybe we can learn from it.
>
> It happens in exactly the way Ted is suggesting -- companies building product
> around Bigdata projects are handling client relationships and they pour $$$ back
> into the projects either via hiring more developers to work on them or by direct
> sponsorship of ASF or by promoting the projects via conferences, training, etc.
> OR all of the above ;-)
Ok. I like a challenge. Raphael, how much, or what would it take to make
what you suggest happen? I am willing to pony up some cash and other
resources.
>
> The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
> the fact that
> it is both a product and a project.
That's not unique to OO. There are other projects that are a product
too. Tomcat, ServiceMix, Archiva are examples.
I see other challenges and opportunities (depending on how one looks at
the glass). For instance the fact that both MS and Google, major
competitors, have a cloud service offering.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Raphael Bircher
<rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ted
>
> Am .04.2017, 06:14 Uhr, schrieb Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Raphael,
>>
>> Why don't you get some folks together and start a company that solicits
>> donations to support OO development and QA work?
>
>
> That's the Apache like style, and that's exactly the reason why i write to
> community and not to the openoffice dev. We have many projects at big data
> who are really successful. How they handle this problem? How they get paid
> stuff involved into their projects. Maybe we can learn from it.
It happens in exactly the way Ted is suggesting -- companies building product
around Bigdata projects are handling client relationships and they pour $$$ back
into the projects either via hiring more developers to work on them or by direct
sponsorship of ASF or by promoting the projects via conferences, training, etc.
OR all of the above ;-)
The challenge that is unique to OpenOffice as you are well aware is
the fact that
it is both a product and a project.
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ted
Am .04.2017, 06:14 Uhr, schrieb Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>:
> Raphael,
>
> Why don't you get some folks together and start a company that solicits
> donations to support OO development and QA work?
That's the Apache like style, and that's exactly the reason why i write to
community and not to the openoffice dev. We have many projects at big data
who are really successful. How they handle this problem? How they get paid
stuff involved into their projects. Maybe we can learn from it.
Regards, Raphael
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Raphael,
>>
>> Not sure why you aren't trying this conversation on the OpenOffice
>> Developer list.
>>
>> It is true there is a lack of c++ devs and QA. We were too dependent on
>> IBM. You had volunteered to do Windows builds, but had other
>> considerations?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Apr 19, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Raphael Bircher
>> <rb...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi people
>> >
>> > I want to raise a question here. I know, we have to solve our problems
>> our self, but maybe here are people with ideas. OpenOffice has a big
>> community problem. The community was simply melted away in the last
>> year.
>> We have at the moment no Company who offer devs. And the rest of the
>> community fights the absolutely urgent issues. There was already a
>> discussion about retirement, it was refused. But this doesn't mean we
>> are
>> out of the danger zone.
>> >
>> > The sweet part of this story is our user base. We have 100'000
>> Downloads
>> EVERY single DAY. I mean, this is crazy. We have really loyal users. We
>> get
>> also frequently messages from user who just want to say "thank you".
>> >
>> > The sad thing about this is, they have actually no chance to do
>> something for the program. They are looked out. Remember, they are
>> normal
>> users, they are no developers. They are typically private users or small
>> companies. But imagine what happened if only a small part of our users
>> pay
>> 20$.
>> >
>> > We really need devs and we need skilled one, because OpenOffice is
>> challenging for programmers. Companies with a load of money has a easy
>> way
>> to influence an Apache project. Simply pay a developer, that's it. But
>> people without big pocket are simply looked out. (if they have no
>> programmer skills) That's not fair!
>> >
>> > How to solve this problem? Thanks a load.
>> >
>> > Regards Raphael
>> >
>> > --
>> > My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Raphael,
Why don't you get some folks together and start a company that solicits
donations to support OO development and QA work?
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi Raphael,
>
> Not sure why you aren't trying this conversation on the OpenOffice
> Developer list.
>
> It is true there is a lack of c++ devs and QA. We were too dependent on
> IBM. You had volunteered to do Windows builds, but had other considerations?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 19, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi people
> >
> > I want to raise a question here. I know, we have to solve our problems
> our self, but maybe here are people with ideas. OpenOffice has a big
> community problem. The community was simply melted away in the last year.
> We have at the moment no Company who offer devs. And the rest of the
> community fights the absolutely urgent issues. There was already a
> discussion about retirement, it was refused. But this doesn't mean we are
> out of the danger zone.
> >
> > The sweet part of this story is our user base. We have 100'000 Downloads
> EVERY single DAY. I mean, this is crazy. We have really loyal users. We get
> also frequently messages from user who just want to say "thank you".
> >
> > The sad thing about this is, they have actually no chance to do
> something for the program. They are looked out. Remember, they are normal
> users, they are no developers. They are typically private users or small
> companies. But imagine what happened if only a small part of our users pay
> 20$.
> >
> > We really need devs and we need skilled one, because OpenOffice is
> challenging for programmers. Companies with a load of money has a easy way
> to influence an Apache project. Simply pay a developer, that's it. But
> people without big pocket are simply looked out. (if they have no
> programmer skills) That's not fair!
> >
> > How to solve this problem? Thanks a load.
> >
> > Regards Raphael
> >
> > --
> > My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
>
>
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>
Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
Hi Raphael,
Not sure why you aren't trying this conversation on the OpenOffice Developer list.
It is true there is a lack of c++ devs and QA. We were too dependent on IBM. You had volunteered to do Windows builds, but had other considerations?
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 19, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi people
>
> I want to raise a question here. I know, we have to solve our problems our self, but maybe here are people with ideas. OpenOffice has a big community problem. The community was simply melted away in the last year. We have at the moment no Company who offer devs. And the rest of the community fights the absolutely urgent issues. There was already a discussion about retirement, it was refused. But this doesn't mean we are out of the danger zone.
>
> The sweet part of this story is our user base. We have 100'000 Downloads EVERY single DAY. I mean, this is crazy. We have really loyal users. We get also frequently messages from user who just want to say "thank you".
>
> The sad thing about this is, they have actually no chance to do something for the program. They are looked out. Remember, they are normal users, they are no developers. They are typically private users or small companies. But imagine what happened if only a small part of our users pay 20$.
>
> We really need devs and we need skilled one, because OpenOffice is challenging for programmers. Companies with a load of money has a easy way to influence an Apache project. Simply pay a developer, that's it. But people without big pocket are simply looked out. (if they have no programmer skills) That's not fair!
>
> How to solve this problem? Thanks a load.
>
> Regards Raphael
>
> --
> My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
>
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RE: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <or...@apache.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Wenk [mailto:andywenk@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 14:26
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
>
> Hi Raphael,
>
> this is really sad to hear. The gap between so many users and a
> vanishing community developers wise is really strange. So the question
> comes to mind what the reasons are for this situation:
>
> * are there problems in the community - especially among the developers?
> * is OpenOffice not competitive anymore compared to Microsoft Office?
> * is OpenOffice not competitive anymore compared to Google Docs and
> similar tools?
> * are the download numbers correct?
[orcmid]
From 2017-01-01 to 2017-03-31, the first quarter of 2017, Apache OpenOffice 4.1.3 was downloaded from the SourceForge mirrors over 9 million times.
You can see the distribution by platform at
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/4.1.3/stats/os?dates=2017-01-01+to+2017-03-31>
> * do you have an idea about the acceptance of OpenOffice in the wide
> world (marketing. press and so on)?
[orcmid]
You can see the distribution by language and nation (roughly based on the origin of the download request).
>
> I am quite sure you already asked and discussed these questions. But
> maybe they trigger some in depth discussions to better understand the
> “why”
>
> I wish you all the best with the project and hope, that it will move on.
>
> Andy
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG public key:
> http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x45D3565377F93D29
>
>
>
> > On 19. Apr 2017, at 22:19, Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi people
> >
> > I want to raise a question here. I know, we have to solve our problems
> our self, but maybe here are people with ideas. OpenOffice has a big
> community problem. The community was simply melted away in the last
> year. We have at the moment no Company who offer devs. And the rest of
> the community fights the absolutely urgent issues. There was already a
> discussion about retirement, it was refused. But this doesn't mean we
> are out of the danger zone.
> >
> > The sweet part of this story is our user base. We have 100'000
> Downloads EVERY single DAY. I mean, this is crazy. We have really loyal
> users. We get also frequently messages from user who just want to say
> "thank you".
> >
> > The sad thing about this is, they have actually no chance to do
> something for the program. They are looked out. Remember, they are
> normal users, they are no developers. They are typically private users
> or small companies. But imagine what happened if only a small part of
> our users pay 20$.
> >
> > We really need devs and we need skilled one, because OpenOffice is
> challenging for programmers. Companies with a load of money has a easy
> way to influence an Apache project. Simply pay a developer, that's it.
> But people without big pocket are simply looked out. (if they have no
> programmer skills) That's not fair!
> >
> > How to solve this problem? Thanks a load.
> >
> > Regards Raphael
> >
> > --
> > My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
>
>
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
This is an incredibly unhelpful response. Don't feed the troll.
On 04/20/2017 01:03 AM, toki wrote:
> On 04/19/2017 09:26 PM, Andy Wenk wrote:
>
>> * are there problems in the community - especially among the developers?
>
> What has happened to Apache OpenOffice was been entirely predictably.
>
> Oracle's offer checked all of the boxes for ensuring that a project
> would have no developer support.
>
>> * is OpenOffice not competitive any more compared to Microsoft Office?
>> * is OpenOffice not competitive any more compared to Google Docs and similar tools?
>
> It would be more accurate to say that LibreOffice has picked up the
> goodwill, and cachet that OpenOffice.org had.
>
>> * are the download numbers correct?
>
> Between 2015-10-01 and 2016-06-30 there were 29,137,880 downloads of
> Apache OpenOffice 4.1.2
> Between 2017-01-01 and 2017-04-19 there were 10,748,967 downloads of
> Apache OpenOffice 4.1.3
>
> In as much as these figures are from SourceForge, they probably are
> reasonably accurate. The big unknown is how many of these are "failed
> downloads".
>
> OTOH, things like the number of downloads from Cuba, San Marino, Monaco,
> and The Holy See, imply that there is an issue with either failed
> downloads, or accurate geolocation, or accurately counting of the downloads.
>
>> * do you have an idea about the acceptance of OpenOffice in the wide world (marketing. press and so on)?
>
> Compare https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/professional-support/ with
> https://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
>
> jonathon
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by toki <to...@gmail.com>.
On 04/20/2017 10:27 AM, Raphael Bircher wrote:
>Why don't you manage to take over the Apache OpenOffice users in all
these years.
I've thought about it, but my basic approach to getting things done
conflicts with doing things the Apache Way.
>Why LibreOffice lose users like the City of Munich.
a) That was a proposal, not an implementation;
b) That announcement was a surprise to the IT department;
c) The proposed migration flies in the face of both official EU and DE
policy;
>I'm also sure that you will see the problem all outside LibreOffice.
LibO has a slightly different set of issues. The two biggest being an
over-reliance on paid developers, and too few corporate sponsors.
>At the moment you are in better condition, yes. But it doesn't give you
the right to spread FUD over Apache OpenOffice. Thanks!
I'm guessing that you are objecting to my statement that OOo checked
every box for rejecting a project, under both the ASF guidelines as a
whole, and all of the projects under its wings, which either a formal,
or informal set of criteria to use to accept/reject sub-projects from
the outside. Unfortunately, for you, that is the way that cookie crumbles.
jonathon
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Hi Toki
It's interesting how you jump in every time we talk about trouble at
OpenOffice. I know, that you and some LibreOffice guys want to see Apache
OpenOffice dead. If we are so bad, you should better ask your self, why
you don't manage to take over the Apache OpenOffice users in all this
years. Why LibreOffice lose users like the City of Munich. I'm sure you
have answares, but I'm also sure that you will see the problem all outside
LibreOffice. LibreOffice also lose a load of traction. Now days you have
only 1/5 of the activity on the dev ML as you have in good times. You also
lost payed devs in the past. At the moment you are in better condition,
yes. But it doesn't give you the right to spread FUD over Apache
OpenOffice. Thanks!
Am .04.2017, 07:03 Uhr, schrieb toki <to...@gmail.com>:
> On 04/19/2017 09:26 PM, Andy Wenk wrote:
>
>> * are there problems in the community - especially among the developers?
>
> What has happened to Apache OpenOffice was been entirely predictably.
>
> Oracle's offer checked all of the boxes for ensuring that a project
> would have no developer support.
>
>> * is OpenOffice not competitive any more compared to Microsoft Office?
>> * is OpenOffice not competitive any more compared to Google Docs and
>> similar tools?
>
> It would be more accurate to say that LibreOffice has picked up the
> goodwill, and cachet that OpenOffice.org had.
>
>> * are the download numbers correct?
>
> Between 2015-10-01 and 2016-06-30 there were 29,137,880 downloads of
> Apache OpenOffice 4.1.2
> Between 2017-01-01 and 2017-04-19 there were 10,748,967 downloads of
> Apache OpenOffice 4.1.3
>
> In as much as these figures are from SourceForge, they probably are
> reasonably accurate. The big unknown is how many of these are "failed
> downloads".
>
> OTOH, things like the number of downloads from Cuba, San Marino, Monaco,
> and The Holy See, imply that there is an issue with either failed
> downloads, or accurate geolocation, or accurately counting of the
> downloads.
>
>> * do you have an idea about the acceptance of OpenOffice in the wide
>> world (marketing. press and so on)?
>
> Compare https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/professional-support/ with
> https://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
>
> jonathon
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by toki <to...@gmail.com>.
On 04/19/2017 09:26 PM, Andy Wenk wrote:
> * are there problems in the community - especially among the developers?
What has happened to Apache OpenOffice was been entirely predictably.
Oracle's offer checked all of the boxes for ensuring that a project
would have no developer support.
> * is OpenOffice not competitive any more compared to Microsoft Office?
> * is OpenOffice not competitive any more compared to Google Docs and similar tools?
It would be more accurate to say that LibreOffice has picked up the
goodwill, and cachet that OpenOffice.org had.
> * are the download numbers correct?
Between 2015-10-01 and 2016-06-30 there were 29,137,880 downloads of
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.2
Between 2017-01-01 and 2017-04-19 there were 10,748,967 downloads of
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.3
In as much as these figures are from SourceForge, they probably are
reasonably accurate. The big unknown is how many of these are "failed
downloads".
OTOH, things like the number of downloads from Cuba, San Marino, Monaco,
and The Holy See, imply that there is an issue with either failed
downloads, or accurate geolocation, or accurately counting of the downloads.
> * do you have an idea about the acceptance of OpenOffice in the wide world (marketing. press and so on)?
Compare https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/professional-support/ with
https://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
jonathon
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Re: Trouble child OpenOffice
Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.
Hi Raphael,
this is really sad to hear. The gap between so many users and a vanishing community developers wise is really strange. So the question comes to mind what the reasons are for this situation:
* are there problems in the community - especially among the developers?
* is OpenOffice not competitive anymore compared to Microsoft Office?
* is OpenOffice not competitive anymore compared to Google Docs and similar tools?
* are the download numbers correct?
* do you have an idea about the acceptance of OpenOffice in the wide world (marketing. press and so on)?
I am quite sure you already asked and discussed these questions. But maybe they trigger some in depth discussions to better understand the “why”
I wish you all the best with the project and hope, that it will move on.
Andy
--
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!
GPG public key:
http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x45D3565377F93D29
> On 19. Apr 2017, at 22:19, Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi people
>
> I want to raise a question here. I know, we have to solve our problems our self, but maybe here are people with ideas. OpenOffice has a big community problem. The community was simply melted away in the last year. We have at the moment no Company who offer devs. And the rest of the community fights the absolutely urgent issues. There was already a discussion about retirement, it was refused. But this doesn't mean we are out of the danger zone.
>
> The sweet part of this story is our user base. We have 100'000 Downloads EVERY single DAY. I mean, this is crazy. We have really loyal users. We get also frequently messages from user who just want to say "thank you".
>
> The sad thing about this is, they have actually no chance to do something for the program. They are looked out. Remember, they are normal users, they are no developers. They are typically private users or small companies. But imagine what happened if only a small part of our users pay 20$.
>
> We really need devs and we need skilled one, because OpenOffice is challenging for programmers. Companies with a load of money has a easy way to influence an Apache project. Simply pay a developer, that's it. But people without big pocket are simply looked out. (if they have no programmer skills) That's not fair!
>
> How to solve this problem? Thanks a load.
>
> Regards Raphael
>
> --
> My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
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