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Posted to community@apache.org by Phil Steitz <ph...@steitz.com> on 2003/11/05 22:26:28 UTC
Mailing from apache email address
Apologies if the answer to this question is obvious and I have just not
stumbled on it; but I am having a hard time "legally" sending mail from
my apache email address. Short of logging in to minotaur via ssh and
using pine, I know of no authenticated way to do this. I can't seem to
connect my Mozilla mail client via SMTP. From the headers on mails from
this and other apache lists, it looks like some folks are just modifying
the headers. I can set up my local sendmail to push psteitz@apache.org;
but that seems bogus to me. Even when I send from minotaur, the headers
don't look right. Can someone give me a clue? What do other people do?
Is there a doc on this somewhere?
Phil
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de>.
How about setting up SMTP AUTH over TLS? This is pretty simple (at least
with sendmail) and you don't need to fiddle with SSH for sending mail.
Don't we have a full fledged Java based mail server in the ASF? ;-)
(ducks, runs)
Regards
Henning
On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 23:25, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> Joshua and Joerg said you can just send mail as whomever you like through
> your local SMTP relay; and while that's usually true, some conservative
> sysadmins will only allow relaying through of mail claiming to be from a
> particular sender domain; furthermore it's becoming more common for port
> 25 outgoing to be filtered when coming from "untrusted" networks.
>
> Therefore, you have one other option involving SSH, but allowing you to
> use your local mail client. Minotaur.apache.org is configured to allow
> SMTP relaying via the localhost interface. So what you do is set up an
> SSH tunnel that connects your own localhost port X (X can be any value
> above 1024) to minotaur's localhost port 25; then in your mail client
> configuration, you set your SMTP server to be "localhost", port X. When
> you send a message, your mail client will connect to localhost:X, relayed
> over your SSH connection to localhost:25 on minotaur. I do this, though
> not with apache.org's server.
>
> In a similar way, you can use the POP service that runs on minotaur's
> localhost interface. Tunnel to localhost:110.
>
> Brian
>
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Phil Steitz wrote:
> > Apologies if the answer to this question is obvious and I have just not
> > stumbled on it; but I am having a hard time "legally" sending mail from
> > my apache email address. Short of logging in to minotaur via ssh and
> > using pine, I know of no authenticated way to do this. I can't seem to
> > connect my Mozilla mail client via SMTP. From the headers on mails from
> > this and other apache lists, it looks like some folks are just modifying
> > the headers. I can set up my local sendmail to push psteitz@apache.org;
> > but that seems bogus to me. Even when I send from minotaur, the headers
> > don't look right. Can someone give me a clue? What do other people do?
> > Is there a doc on this somewhere?
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
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> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
> >
>
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hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 7 Nov 2003, at 23:25, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> Therefore, you have one other option involving SSH, but allowing you to
> use your local mail client. Minotaur.apache.org is configured to allow
> SMTP relaying via the localhost interface. So what you do is set up an
> SSH tunnel that connects your own localhost port X (X can be any value
> above 1024) to minotaur's localhost port 25; then in your mail client
> configuration, you set your SMTP server to be "localhost", port X.
> When
> you send a message, your mail client will connect to localhost:X,
> relayed
> over your SSH connection to localhost:25 on minotaur. I do this,
> though
> not with apache.org's server.
Uh, didn't know that minotaur allowed that. You learn something new
every day ;-)
--
Stefano, who likes to have several options when email is concerned
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:52:29 -0800 (PST)
Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 110:localhost:110 -L 25:localhost:25
Great! Works well. I do love it.
Really great!
Thank you, Brian.
P.S.
> certain IP addresses that could send mail that claimed to be From: an
> @apache.org address, in an attempt to prevent forged spam. But I'm sure
> the infrastructure team would make a lot of noise before doing that.
ROTFL! ;-)
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org>.
Phil Steitz a écrit :
> Brian Behlendorf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>
>>> Nice! Finally got this to work. It took me a while to realize that you
>>> really did mean "localhost" on minotaur -- i.e., something like
>>>
>>> ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 109:localhost:110 -L 24:localhost:25
>>
>>
>>
>> Sure. Though you don't need to use different ports. This would work
>> fine:
>>
>> ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 110:localhost:110 -L 25:localhost:25
>
>
> Yes, I changed the ports to avoid conflict with sendmail running locally.
You could even use the ssh connection for your cvs access :)
ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 110:localhost:110 -L 25:localhost:25 -L
2401:localhost:2401
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@steitz.com>.
Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Phil Steitz wrote:
>
>>Nice! Finally got this to work. It took me a while to realize that you
>>really did mean "localhost" on minotaur -- i.e., something like
>>
>>ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 109:localhost:110 -L 24:localhost:25
>
>
> Sure. Though you don't need to use different ports. This would work
> fine:
>
> ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 110:localhost:110 -L 25:localhost:25
Yes, I changed the ports to avoid conflict with sendmail running locally.
>
> Or if you're not able to bind to ports < 1024 because you're on a Unix box
> and not running as root,
>
> ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 1110:localhost:110 -L 1025:localhost:25
>
> or something.
>
>
>>One more question: are there guidelines anywhere on when to use
>>@apache.com email addresses?
>
>
> Don't ever use @apache.com. ;)
Ouch! (yet another reason not to munge the headers...)
>
>
>>I have never used mine and would expect to use it only to subsribe to
>>lists such as this, which is in fact what led to this question. I am not
>>a PMC or ASF member, so I would never really be in a position to
>>officially represent apache. Is there a policy on this?
>
>
> Not really, but it has generally appeared to be used rarely; only a few
> people I know use that as their primary email identity. If you're
> speaking to others about something Apache-related from your @apache.org
> address, it might be a good idea to have a sig that mentions you're not
> speaking FOR the ASF, or something.
Thanks for the clarification.
>
>
>>I will submit a patch to newbie.faq summarizing responses to this
>>question and providing at least linux - mozilla instructions for setting
>>up tunnelling, as well as filling in the missing bit on how to set up
>>.forward. I assume from the discussion above, however, that tunnelling
>>is entirely optional.
>
>
> Thanks, that would be appreciated. And yes, if you can successfully set
> an arbitrary From: header from your mailer, you don't need to tunnel.
> Though, this may change in the future: there is at least one proposal for
> an anti-spam technique that would allow us to state that there were only
> certain IP addresses that could send mail that claimed to be From: an
> @apache.org address, in an attempt to prevent forged spam. But I'm sure
> the infrastructure team would make a lot of noise before doing that.
Got it. Thanks again. I will submit a patch this weekend at the latest.
Phil
>
> Brian
>
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 01:52:29AM -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> > certain IP addresses that could send mail that claimed to be From: an
> > @apache.org address, in an attempt to prevent forged spam. But I'm sure
> > the infrastructure team would make a lot of noise before doing that.
>
> As in noise against it. ;-)
>
> Would this scheme allow DNS entries per LHS of the email address? Then,
> there might be something to it - otherwise, feh.
No, it's DNS-based; like a "reverse MX" record.
> If I were to send a message from jerenkrantz@apache.org, it should only
> originate from one machine - the one this one comes from - or am I
> really Justin at all? Muwhahaha. But, to expect us to tunnel all
> @apache.org originating email only from minotaur (accessible via SSH
> port forwarding or local origination) isn't realistic, IMHO. -- justin
Well, it works for CVS.
Brian
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by André Malo <nd...@apache.org>.
* Henning Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de> wrote:
> Forget SSH. Use TLS and SMTP AUTH. Proven, tried and true 90ies
> technology that works like a charm. ;-)
Quite old, isn't it?
SCNR, nd
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org>.
>>If I were to send a message from jerenkrantz@apache.org, it should only
>>originate from one machine - the one this one comes from - or am I
>>really Justin at all? Muwhahaha. But, to expect us to tunnel all
>>@apache.org originating email only from minotaur (accessible via SSH
>>port forwarding or local origination) isn't realistic, IMHO. -- justin
>
>
> Forget SSH. Use TLS and SMTP AUTH. Proven, tried and true 90ies
> technology that works like a charm. ;-)
big +1
...but AFAIU this is not yet in place for the ASF.
Or did I miss something?
--
Torsten
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de>.
On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 11:04, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> If I were to send a message from jerenkrantz@apache.org, it should only
> originate from one machine - the one this one comes from - or am I
> really Justin at all? Muwhahaha. But, to expect us to tunnel all
> @apache.org originating email only from minotaur (accessible via SSH
> port forwarding or local origination) isn't realistic, IMHO. -- justin
Forget SSH. Use TLS and SMTP AUTH. Proven, tried and true 90ies
technology that works like a charm. ;-)
Regards
Henning
--
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hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services
freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire
"Dominate!! Dominate!! Eat your young and aggregate! I have grotty silicon!"
-- AOL CD when played backwards (User Friendly - 200-10-15)
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 01:52:29AM -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> certain IP addresses that could send mail that claimed to be From: an
> @apache.org address, in an attempt to prevent forged spam. But I'm sure
> the infrastructure team would make a lot of noise before doing that.
As in noise against it. ;-)
Would this scheme allow DNS entries per LHS of the email address? Then,
there might be something to it - otherwise, feh.
If I were to send a message from jerenkrantz@apache.org, it should only
originate from one machine - the one this one comes from - or am I
really Justin at all? Muwhahaha. But, to expect us to tunnel all
@apache.org originating email only from minotaur (accessible via SSH
port forwarding or local origination) isn't realistic, IMHO. -- justin
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Phil Steitz wrote:
> Nice! Finally got this to work. It took me a while to realize that you
> really did mean "localhost" on minotaur -- i.e., something like
>
> ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 109:localhost:110 -L 24:localhost:25
Sure. Though you don't need to use different ports. This would work
fine:
ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 110:localhost:110 -L 25:localhost:25
Or if you're not able to bind to ports < 1024 because you're on a Unix box
and not running as root,
ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 1110:localhost:110 -L 1025:localhost:25
or something.
> One more question: are there guidelines anywhere on when to use
> @apache.com email addresses?
Don't ever use @apache.com. ;)
> I have never used mine and would expect to use it only to subsribe to
> lists such as this, which is in fact what led to this question. I am not
> a PMC or ASF member, so I would never really be in a position to
> officially represent apache. Is there a policy on this?
Not really, but it has generally appeared to be used rarely; only a few
people I know use that as their primary email identity. If you're
speaking to others about something Apache-related from your @apache.org
address, it might be a good idea to have a sig that mentions you're not
speaking FOR the ASF, or something.
> I will submit a patch to newbie.faq summarizing responses to this
> question and providing at least linux - mozilla instructions for setting
> up tunnelling, as well as filling in the missing bit on how to set up
> .forward. I assume from the discussion above, however, that tunnelling
> is entirely optional.
Thanks, that would be appreciated. And yes, if you can successfully set
an arbitrary From: header from your mailer, you don't need to tunnel.
Though, this may change in the future: there is at least one proposal for
an anti-spam technique that would allow us to state that there were only
certain IP addresses that could send mail that claimed to be From: an
@apache.org address, in an attempt to prevent forged spam. But I'm sure
the infrastructure team would make a lot of noise before doing that.
Brian
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@steitz.com>.
Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> Joshua and Joerg said you can just send mail as whomever you like through
> your local SMTP relay; and while that's usually true, some conservative
> sysadmins will only allow relaying through of mail claiming to be from a
> particular sender domain; furthermore it's becoming more common for port
> 25 outgoing to be filtered when coming from "untrusted" networks.
Yes. I prefer not to fake the headers, which is why I asked the question.
>
> Therefore, you have one other option involving SSH, but allowing you to
> use your local mail client. Minotaur.apache.org is configured to allow
> SMTP relaying via the localhost interface. So what you do is set up an
> SSH tunnel that connects your own localhost port X (X can be any value
> above 1024) to minotaur's localhost port 25; then in your mail client
> configuration, you set your SMTP server to be "localhost", port X. When
> you send a message, your mail client will connect to localhost:X, relayed
> over your SSH connection to localhost:25 on minotaur. I do this, though
> not with apache.org's server
>
> In a similar way, you can use the POP service that runs on minotaur's
> localhost interface. Tunnel to localhost:110.
Nice! Finally got this to work. It took me a while to realize that you
really did mean "localhost" on minotaur -- i.e., something like
ssh <username>@cvs.apache.org -L 109:localhost:110 -L 24:localhost:25
Thanks.
One more question: are there guidelines anywhere on when to use
@apache.com email addresses? I have never used mine and would expect to
use it only to subsribe to lists such as this, which is in fact what led
to this question. I am not a PMC or ASF member, so I would never really
be in a position to officially represent apache. Is there a policy on this?
I will submit a patch to newbie.faq summarizing responses to this
question and providing at least linux - mozilla instructions for setting
up tunnelling, as well as filling in the missing bit on how to set up
.forward. I assume from the discussion above, however, that tunnelling
is entirely optional.
Phil
>
> Brian
>
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Phil Steitz wrote:
>
>>Apologies if the answer to this question is obvious and I have just not
>>stumbled on it; but I am having a hard time "legally" sending mail from
>>my apache email address. Short of logging in to minotaur via ssh and
>>using pine, I know of no authenticated way to do this. I can't seem to
>>connect my Mozilla mail client via SMTP. From the headers on mails from
>>this and other apache lists, it looks like some folks are just modifying
>>the headers. I can set up my local sendmail to push psteitz@apache.org;
>>but that seems bogus to me. Even when I send from minotaur, the headers
>>don't look right. Can someone give me a clue? What do other people do?
>>Is there a doc on this somewhere?
>>
>>Phil
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Ben Hyde <bh...@pobox.com>.
Brian's sketch below of how to tunnel to apache mail servers provides a
good opportunity to enquire if anyone knows of a 'server' I could slip
into inetd.conf which would dig such tunnels on demand? Presumably it
would rendezvous somehow with my ssh-agent to get credentials. As it
is I have a script I run that creates a dozen tunnels for various
services (smtp, ldap, http proxies, vnc, ssh, pptp, etc. etc) lurking
behind various firewalls inside various organizations; it's unreliable.
- ben
On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 05:25 PM, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
>
> Joshua and Joerg said you can just send mail as whomever you like
> through
> your local SMTP relay; and while that's usually true, some conservative
> sysadmins will only allow relaying through of mail claiming to be from
> a
> particular sender domain; furthermore it's becoming more common for
> port
> 25 outgoing to be filtered when coming from "untrusted" networks.
>
> Therefore, you have one other option involving SSH, but allowing you to
> use your local mail client. Minotaur.apache.org is configured to allow
> SMTP relaying via the localhost interface. So what you do is set up an
> SSH tunnel that connects your own localhost port X (X can be any value
> above 1024) to minotaur's localhost port 25; then in your mail client
> configuration, you set your SMTP server to be "localhost", port X.
> When
> you send a message, your mail client will connect to localhost:X,
> relayed
> over your SSH connection to localhost:25 on minotaur. I do this,
> though
> not with apache.org's server.
>
> In a similar way, you can use the POP service that runs on minotaur's
> localhost interface. Tunnel to localhost:110.
>
> Brian
>
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> Apologies if the answer to this question is obvious and I have just
>> not
>> stumbled on it; but I am having a hard time "legally" sending mail
>> from
>> my apache email address. Short of logging in to minotaur via ssh and
>> using pine, I know of no authenticated way to do this. I can't seem to
>> connect my Mozilla mail client via SMTP. From the headers on mails
>> from
>> this and other apache lists, it looks like some folks are just
>> modifying
>> the headers. I can set up my local sendmail to push
>> psteitz@apache.org;
>> but that seems bogus to me. Even when I send from minotaur, the
>> headers
>> don't look right. Can someone give me a clue? What do other people
>> do?
>> Is there a doc on this somewhere?
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
Joshua and Joerg said you can just send mail as whomever you like through
your local SMTP relay; and while that's usually true, some conservative
sysadmins will only allow relaying through of mail claiming to be from a
particular sender domain; furthermore it's becoming more common for port
25 outgoing to be filtered when coming from "untrusted" networks.
Therefore, you have one other option involving SSH, but allowing you to
use your local mail client. Minotaur.apache.org is configured to allow
SMTP relaying via the localhost interface. So what you do is set up an
SSH tunnel that connects your own localhost port X (X can be any value
above 1024) to minotaur's localhost port 25; then in your mail client
configuration, you set your SMTP server to be "localhost", port X. When
you send a message, your mail client will connect to localhost:X, relayed
over your SSH connection to localhost:25 on minotaur. I do this, though
not with apache.org's server.
In a similar way, you can use the POP service that runs on minotaur's
localhost interface. Tunnel to localhost:110.
Brian
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Phil Steitz wrote:
> Apologies if the answer to this question is obvious and I have just not
> stumbled on it; but I am having a hard time "legally" sending mail from
> my apache email address. Short of logging in to minotaur via ssh and
> using pine, I know of no authenticated way to do this. I can't seem to
> connect my Mozilla mail client via SMTP. From the headers on mails from
> this and other apache lists, it looks like some folks are just modifying
> the headers. I can set up my local sendmail to push psteitz@apache.org;
> but that seems bogus to me. Even when I send from minotaur, the headers
> don't look right. Can someone give me a clue? What do other people do?
> Is there a doc on this somewhere?
>
> Phil
>
>
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Joerg Pietschmann <pi...@apache.org>.
Phil Steitz wrote:
> Apologies if the answer to this question is obvious and I have just not
> stumbled on it; but I am having a hard time "legally" sending mail from
> my apache email address. Short of logging in to minotaur via ssh and
> using pine, I know of no authenticated way to do this. I can't seem to
> connect my Mozilla mail client via SMTP.
Just create another Mail account and claim "yourname@apache.org" as
email address. Use the usual outgoing mail server of your provider,
they don't care about the content of From: header. If you select
a mailbox in this new account, every reply and newly composed message
will appera to be sent from your apache account.
J.Pietschmann
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Re: Mailing from apache email address
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Phil Steitz wrote:
> Apologies if the answer to this question is obvious and I have just not
> stumbled on it; but I am having a hard time "legally" sending mail from
> my apache email address. Short of logging in to minotaur via ssh and
> using pine, I know of no authenticated way to do this. I can't seem to
> connect my Mozilla mail client via SMTP. From the headers on mails from
> this and other apache lists, it looks like some folks are just modifying
> the headers. I can set up my local sendmail to push psteitz@apache.org;
> but that seems bogus to me. Even when I send from minotaur, the headers
> don't look right. Can someone give me a clue? What do other people do?
> Is there a doc on this somewhere?
On the current internet, you should expect no mapping between login
account / smtp server and an actual email address. (Although some of the
current anti-spam proposals want to reinstitute such a thing.) In other
words, it is perfectly valid to just change your header and send through
your normal smtp server.
(Personally, I avoid using my @apache.org address unless I am speaking in
some way as a representitive of apache.)
Joshua.
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