Guidance on EPL source please

[Scott Gray <le...@gmail.com>]

Hi there,

Over in the Apache OFBiz project we're having some trouble coming to
an agreement about whether or not it is okay to include some
javascript and jsp files that are part of Eclipse BIRT distribution
(EPL license) which is being integrated into OFBiz.

Quoting from the Third-Party Licensing Policy
(http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html):
"For small amounts of source that is directly consumed by the ASF
product at runtime in source form, and for which that source is
unlikely to be changed anyway (say, by virtue of being specified by a
standard), this action is sufficient. An example of this is the
web-facesconfig_1_0.dtd, whose inclusion is mandated by the JSR 127:
JavaServer Faces specification.

Code that is more substantial, more volatile, or not directly consumed
at runtime in source form may only be distributed in binary form."

The area of concern is BIRT's report web viewer which consists of 45
javascript files and 37 jsp files.  My opinion is that the number of
files being included does not constitute a small amount of source and
given that many people like to change the way their application is
presented, there is a decent chance that the jsp files could be
modified downstream (perhaps less so for the javascript).  Others feel
that these files fit within the bounds of the policy, hence my
bringing the question to this list

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Scott Gray

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Re: Guidance on EPL source please

[Scott Gray <le...@gmail.com>]

Hi Henri,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

The issue is somewhat less critical now since the code has been
removed from svn, it was put there accidentally during a merge that
didn't go so well.  I'm happy to create a jira issue if you think the
information below warrants it, just let me know and I'll move it over.

I don't know a whole lot about the viewer since I haven't had anything
to do with the integration other than reviewing the commits as they
come in but here's some info from BIRT's website:
"BIRT Viewer - The BIRT project provides a sample "viewer" that is
used to preview reports within Eclipse. BIRT includes an Apache Tomcat
server invoked each time you preview your report. In addition to being
packaged as an Eclipse Plug-in, the Viewer is also available as a
standalone J2EE application, which can be used in any JSP-compliant
J2EE server. The Viewer Plug-in can also be embedded within a Rich
Client Platform (RCP) application. BIRT provides web output as a
single HTML document, paginated HTML, PDF, XLS, DOC, PPT, and
Postscript. Additionally the viewer allows exporting the data to CSV,
printing, and Table of Contents functionality."

So it was being deployed in OFBiz as a standalone J2EE application (in
expanded form, not as a war package) and then accessed within our apps
using a jsp tag which embeds the viewer into a given page.  The jsp
files and javascript files of concern are consumed at run time to
create an ajax based viewer that allows for better report navigation.

So to answer your questions (as best I can):
> What do those files do,
As above, they're consumed at run time to generate an ajax based
viewer.  Just standard jsp and javascript usage.

>are they stored in our SVN and built
> against, or the output of a tool?
Stored in svn but not built against, just consumed in source form at run time.

> Are they a part of the runtime product or only used in build/test/documentation?
Runtime product, plays no role in build/test/documentation

The fact that the BIRT project describes the viewer as a "sample" (I
didn't know this previously) increases my concern, since it gives the
impression that the intention is for the viewer to modified/customized
to suit the needs of the embedding system.  The viewer isn't required
to use BIRT's reporting engine and we can still generate static HTML,
PDF, etc. reports without it but it is a good tool and I guess the
next question if we can't include it in source form would be if there
is any other way we could get around the restriction, perhaps by
obfuscating the source so that it can't be easily modified by
downstream users.

Many thanks
Scott

2009/12/19 Henri Yandell <hy...@gmail.com>:
> Definitely an interesting use case, so thankyou for bringing it up.
>
> This all builds up as precedence, and we've not had an item like this
> before (if I understand correctly).
>
> Can you explain a bit more about the use case of the BIRT Report
> Viewer? What do those files do, are they stored in our SVN and built
> against, or the output of a tool? Are they a part of the runtime
> product or only used in build/test/documentation?
>
> You might want to open this as a JIRA item. That does a better job of
> making sure that it doesn't get dropped.
>
> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hen
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Scott Gray <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Over in the Apache OFBiz project we're having some trouble coming to
>> an agreement about whether or not it is okay to include some
>> javascript and jsp files that are part of Eclipse BIRT distribution
>> (EPL license) which is being integrated into OFBiz.
>>
>> Quoting from the Third-Party Licensing Policy
>> (http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html):
>> "For small amounts of source that is directly consumed by the ASF
>> product at runtime in source form, and for which that source is
>> unlikely to be changed anyway (say, by virtue of being specified by a
>> standard), this action is sufficient. An example of this is the
>> web-facesconfig_1_0.dtd, whose inclusion is mandated by the JSR 127:
>> JavaServer Faces specification.
>>
>> Code that is more substantial, more volatile, or not directly consumed
>> at runtime in source form may only be distributed in binary form."
>>
>> The area of concern is BIRT's report web viewer which consists of 45
>> javascript files and 37 jsp files.  My opinion is that the number of
>> files being included does not constitute a small amount of source and
>> given that many people like to change the way their application is
>> presented, there is a decent chance that the jsp files could be
>> modified downstream (perhaps less so for the javascript).  Others feel
>> that these files fit within the bounds of the policy, hence my
>> bringing the question to this list
>>
>> Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Many thanks
>> Scott Gray
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: Guidance on EPL source please

[Henri Yandell <hy...@gmail.com>]

Definitely an interesting use case, so thankyou for bringing it up.

This all builds up as precedence, and we've not had an item like this
before (if I understand correctly).

Can you explain a bit more about the use case of the BIRT Report
Viewer? What do those files do, are they stored in our SVN and built
against, or the output of a tool? Are they a part of the runtime
product or only used in build/test/documentation?

You might want to open this as a JIRA item. That does a better job of
making sure that it doesn't get dropped.

http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL

Thanks,

Hen

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Scott Gray <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Over in the Apache OFBiz project we're having some trouble coming to
> an agreement about whether or not it is okay to include some
> javascript and jsp files that are part of Eclipse BIRT distribution
> (EPL license) which is being integrated into OFBiz.
>
> Quoting from the Third-Party Licensing Policy
> (http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html):
> "For small amounts of source that is directly consumed by the ASF
> product at runtime in source form, and for which that source is
> unlikely to be changed anyway (say, by virtue of being specified by a
> standard), this action is sufficient. An example of this is the
> web-facesconfig_1_0.dtd, whose inclusion is mandated by the JSR 127:
> JavaServer Faces specification.
>
> Code that is more substantial, more volatile, or not directly consumed
> at runtime in source form may only be distributed in binary form."
>
> The area of concern is BIRT's report web viewer which consists of 45
> javascript files and 37 jsp files.  My opinion is that the number of
> files being included does not constitute a small amount of source and
> given that many people like to change the way their application is
> presented, there is a decent chance that the jsp files could be
> modified downstream (perhaps less so for the javascript).  Others feel
> that these files fit within the bounds of the policy, hence my
> bringing the question to this list
>
> Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Many thanks
> Scott Gray
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>

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