EJB and Apache/Jakarta/etc

["Diethelm Guallar, Gonzalo" <Go...@sonda.com>]

I know this is not the right forum, but I'm interested
in what you people might have to say about this.

The project I have been working on selected IBM WebSphere
as its base infrastructure. The tool seems good, though a
tad expensive. Anyway, when I started looking for something
that made a reality of the much mentioned separation
between content and presentation, I realized WebSphere
did not have anything that provided such separation. Indeed,
after some research, I found that Cocoon is the most
advanced implementation of technologies that achieve
this separation (go Cocoon!). Together with this, came
the realization that actually what we are using from
WebSphere is a very tiny portion, and that we could
(probably; this is not proven fact yet) move our whole
architecture to JServ/Tomcat, Cocoon, etc., all freely
available tools (I'm all for it, but I hope management
doesn't get in the way). So, I decided to research a bit
further and come up with a comparison of WebSphere (or
WebLogic, for that matter) and whatever components
running on top of Apache (such as JServ and Cocoon).
It seems that ALL we have done on WebSphere could be
implemented on these OpenSource tools, with one (possible)
exception: EJBs. We are not really using EJBs at this
point (and maybe we never will), but that still begs
the question: is it possible to write EJBs on the OpenSource
world of JServ+friends?

Sorry if this took so long, but I wanted to provide a
little context on where I'm coming from. Any wisdom is
greatly appreciated. Thanks,


--
Gonzalo A. Diethelm
gonzalo.diethelm@sonda.com

Re: EJB and Apache/Jakarta/etc

[Uli Mayring <ul...@denic.de>]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Mark Washeim wrote:

> To put it short, once I'm finished (this week), I'm going to write a long
> discursive essay about this industry. It will contend itself with the
> errors

Well, be sure to fill us in where we can read that essay.

> Don't worry. It'll stay up. Article generation and stats are already
> presented by cocoon (under-optimized I might add) . . .
> 
> I'm almost there . . .

Good luck!

Ulrich

-- 
Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Softwareentwicklung

Re: EJB and Apache/Jakarta/etc

[Mark Washeim <es...@canuck.com>]

on 12/6/00 2:35 pm, Uli Mayring at ulim@denic.de wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, Mark Washeim wrote:
> 
>> I'm deep in over my head, now, using cocoon and apache to repair what the
>> big name brands have wrought and bring some sanity back to a project . . .
> 
> I hope you're not talking about eurofootball.com, because this site is
> going to be needed in the next few weeks :)
> 
> Ulrich

I am indeed talking about eurofootball.com :)

<RANT>
For the sake of so-called business ethics, I should keep my mouth shut . . .
but then, what ever stopped our colleague engineers from being un-ethical .
. . 

To put it short, once I'm finished (this week), I'm going to write a long
discursive essay about this industry. It will contend itself with the errors
and the arrogance of consultancies. It will rage against the stupidity of
'buying' solutions to problems, at all (since when has anyone ever solved a
problem by buying anything!)... and I will belabour (sorry) the topic of the
origins of open source in the scientific spirit which derives from the
Enlightment notion that knowledge yields freedom. . . contentious stuff,
eh?! . . .
</RANT>

Don't worry. It'll stay up. Article generation and stats are already
presented by cocoon (under-optimized I might add) . . .

I'm almost there . . .


-- 
Mark (Poetaster) Washeim

'On the linen wrappings of certain mummified remains
found near the Etrurian coast are invaluable writings
that await translation.

Quem colorem habet sapientia?'

Evan S. Connell

 

Re: EJB and Apache/Jakarta/etc

[Uli Mayring <ul...@denic.de>]

On Sat, 10 Jun 2000, Mark Washeim wrote:

> I'm deep in over my head, now, using cocoon and apache to repair what the
> big name brands have wrought and bring some sanity back to a project . . .

I hope you're not talking about eurofootball.com, because this site is
going to be needed in the next few weeks :)

Ulrich

-- 
Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Softwareentwicklung

Re: EJB and Apache/Jakarta/etc

[Mark Washeim <es...@canuck.com>]

on 10/6/00 2:23 am, Diethelm Guallar, Gonzalo at Gonzalo.Diethelm@sonda.com
wrote:


I know this is not the right forum, but I'm interested
in what you people might have to say about this.

The project I have been working on selected IBM WebSphere
as its base infrastructure. The tool seems good, though a
tad expensive. Anyway, when I started looking for something
that made a reality of the much mentioned separation
between content and presentation, I realized WebSphere
did not have anything that provided such separation. Indeed,
after some research, I found that Cocoon is the most
advanced implementation of technologies that achieve
this separation (go Cocoon!). Together with this, came
the realization that actually what we are using from
WebSphere is a very tiny portion, and that we could
(probably; this is not proven fact yet) move our whole
architecture to JServ/Tomcat, Cocoon, etc., all freely
available tools (I'm all for it, but I hope management
doesn't get in the way). So, I decided to research a bit
further and come up with a comparison of WebSphere (or
WebLogic, for that matter) and whatever components
running on top of Apache (such as JServ and Cocoon).
It seems that ALL we have done on WebSphere could be
implemented on these OpenSource tools, with one (possible)
exception: EJBs. We are not really using EJBs at this
point (and maybe we never will), but that still begs
the question: is it possible to write EJBs on the OpenSource
world of JServ+friends?

Sorry if this took so long, but I wanted to provide a
little context on where I'm coming from. Any wisdom is
greatly appreciated. Thanks,

I have been deploying, often ruefully, for one client on proprietary
hardware and software (often sun and weblogic) the same servlets that we
deploy for equally large clients on cheap pcs with open source unix (FreeBSD
variants) and Jserv and Apache. . .

Successful case studies not withstanding, IT (or MIS) departments rarely
leave the safety of the shrink wrap . . . of course, it often bites them in
the ass, but, still, they feel safe...

After a recent monumentally botched project where name-brand meant trouble,
I personally will never again specify name brand (eg. WebSphere in this
particular case) . . .

The ease of use, cost of ownership, technical support, in short, all the
things we expect of name brands are simply more likely to come from the open
source community where motives for contributing are not driven by marketing
but by something closer to the scientific communities commitment to
knowledge itself . . .

I'm deep in over my head, now, using cocoon and apache to repair what the
big name brands have wrought and bring some sanity back to a project . . . .
-- 
Mark (Poetaster) Washeim

'On the linen wrappings of certain mummified remains
found near the Etrurian coast are invaluable writings
that await translation.

Quem colorem habet sapientia?'

Evan S. Connell