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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Christofer Dutz <ch...@codecentric.de> on 2017/11/01 13:02:55 UTC

Re: Protocols and IP?

Hi Ted,

well PLC4X is intended to be a set of libraries that allow unified access to PLCs using multiple protocols. Currently most implementations of libraries for accessing PLCs are licensed GPL and make it impossible to use them in commercial projects. One or two are LGPL. All of them however lack a unified API to access Information and the implementations themselves are usually implemented in a POC style and usually lack features like: Async Communication, Non-Blocking-IO etc. This is what I’m trying to fix. The native usage is greatly inspired by how you use JDBC today.

We are planning on also implementing adapters for multiple Apache projects. Right now I have these on my List:
Apache Edgent,
Apache Mynewt,
Apache Camel and even
Apache Brooklyn

as well as provide Java, Scala, C++ versions of the library (C++ will probably come a little later, but I need that for Mynewt, which I think will be an important adapter to have).

It’s a big effort and we already have a quite big and diverse number of people interested in helping and an even bigger number of companies immediately wanting to use it ;-)

We are still looking for people interested in helping (Both as Committers as well as Incubator Mentors) … that’s also the reason why I replied to the list and not just to you, Ted ;-)

Chris

Mit freundlichen Grüßen | Best regards

Christofer Dutz | Senior IT Consultant

codecentric AG | Kreuznacher Straße 30 | 60486 Frankfurt am Main | Deutschland

mobil: +49 (1525) 3057806 <tel:+4915253057806>

fax: +49 (69) 75938200 <tel:+496975938200>

www.codecentric.de <http://www.codecentric.de/> | blog.codecentric.de <http://blog.codecentric.de/> | www.meettheexperts.de <http://www.meettheexperts.de/>

Sitz der Gesellschaft: Solingen | HRB 25917| Amtsgericht Wuppertal

Vorstand: Michael Hochgürtel . Rainer Vehns

Aufsichtsrat: Patric Fedlmeier (Vorsitzender) . Klaus Jäger . Jürgen Schütz

Diese E-Mail einschließlich evtl. beigefügter Dateien enthält vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschützte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und löschen Sie diese E-Mail und evtl. beigefügter Dateien umgehend. Das unerlaubte Kopieren, Nutzen oder Öffnen evtl. beigefügter Dateien sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.

Von: Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
Antworten an: <le...@apache.org>
Datum: Mittwoch, 1. November 2017 um 00:15
An: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Protocols and IP?

So, as a bizarre coincidence, I was at a customer's site today and one thing that they are very interested in is PLC controller data extraction.

Can you tell me a bit more about what you guys do?

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Christofer Dutz <ch...@codecentric.de> wrote:

Hi Betrand,

Yes, you are right … this issue is about a project, that is not yet an Apache project but I am planning on submitting an incubation proposal soon.

The thing is, if there are issues with the path I am going, there is no real need to continue the project. So, it would be instantly dead as soon as it’s in the incubator.

So, I took this issue to our company’s lawyers for now. I guess I’ll get some initial feedback from them soon.
As we are currently putting a lot of effort into this (Our design department is working on a logo and stuff like that), I am being paid for working on it. Colleagues are also investing their time. If the lawyers give me a “go”, I’ll continue my work and add their report to the incubation proposal.

Sort of a strange hen-egg problem ;-)

Chris

Mit freundlichen Grüßen | Best regards
Christofer Dutz | Senior IT Consultant

codecentric AG | Kreuznacher Straße 30 | 60486 Frankfurt am Main | Deutschland
mobil: +49 (1525) 3057806 <tel:+4915253057806>
fax: +49 (69) 75938200 <tel:+496975938200>
www.codecentric.de <http://www.codecentric.de/> | blog.codecentric.de <http://blog.codecentric.de/> | www.meettheexperts.de <http://www.meettheexperts.de/>

Sitz der Gesellschaft: Solingen | HRB 25917| Amtsgericht Wuppertal
Vorstand: Michael Hochgürtel . Rainer Vehns
Aufsichtsrat: Patric Fedlmeier (Vorsitzender) . Klaus Jäger . Jürgen Schütz

Am 31.10.17, 14:14 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Christofer Dutz
<ch...@codecentric.de> wrote:
> ...Guess it would be best to have this double checked by some paid lawyers....

The ASF does have legal counsels, if what you're after is directly
related to an Apache project the best IMO is to write a concise
request for legal advice, which can be at
https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/LEGAL if it's not
confidential.

If it's confidential, ask here how to proceed.

IIUC your question is related to an incoming podling, in which case I
think the best is to include the question (concise and concrete is
best) in the podling proposal, and the Incubator can ask for help if
needed in resolving the question.

-Bertrand

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RE: Protocols and IP?

Posted by Toby Considine <To...@gmail.com>.

When talking to a device, you have to talk whatever the device talks.

 

When exposing an interface you have more choices. I’d like to recommend OBIX, and open specification for abstract communications with any control system. Originally, OBIX was only in XML, and stood for Open Building Information Exchange. It has been revised to include formal binding specifications for SOAP (mostly used in Asia), REST (primary implementation in North America and perhaps Europe), and Web Socket (Smart TV Alliance). There are now open specifications for encoding in XML, JSON, EXI, and COAP. OBIX is an OASIS specification, free to download, free to use, free to include in products.

 

It will be very useful to expose the devices you name, but how exposed? That might as well follow a standard.

 

http://docs.oasis-open.org/obix/obix/v1.1/obix-v1.1.html

 

 Bindings for OBIX: REST Bindings Version 1.0. http://docs.oasis-open.org/obix/obix-rest/v1.0/obix-rest-v1.0.html.

Bindings for OBIX: SOAP Bindings Version 1.0. http://docs.oasis-open.org/obix/obix-soap/v1.0/obix-soap-v1.0.html.

Encodings for OBIX: Common Encodings Version 1.0. http://docs.oasis-open.org/obix/obix-encodings/v1.0/obix-encodings-v1.0.html.

Bindings for OBIX: Web Socket Bindings Version 1.0. http://docs.oasis-open.org/obix/obix-websocket/v1.0/obix-websocket-v1.0.html

 

This will enable you to expose the adapters you write to participate in a large and growing world…

 

tc

 

From: Christofer Dutz [mailto:christofer.dutz@codecentric.de] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 9:03 AM
To: legal-discuss@apache.org; Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Protocols and IP?

 

Hi Ted,

 

well PLC4X is intended to be a set of libraries that allow unified access to PLCs using multiple protocols. Currently most implementations of libraries for accessing PLCs are licensed GPL and make it impossible to use them in commercial projects. One or two are LGPL. All of them however lack a unified API to access Information and the implementations themselves are usually implemented in a POC style and usually lack features like: Async Communication, Non-Blocking-IO etc. This is what I’m trying to fix. The native usage is greatly inspired by how you use JDBC today.

 

We are planning on also implementing adapters for multiple Apache projects. Right now I have these on my List: 

-          Apache Edgent, 

-          Apache Mynewt, 

-          Apache Camel and even 

-          Apache Brooklyn 

 

as well as provide Java, Scala, C++ versions of the library (C++ will probably come a little later, but I need that for Mynewt, which I think will be an important adapter to have). 

 

It’s a big effort and we already have a quite big and diverse number of people interested in helping and an even bigger number of companies immediately wanting to use it ;-)

 

We are still looking for people interested in helping (Both as Committers as well as Incubator Mentors) … that’s also the reason why I replied to the list and not just to you, Ted ;-)

 

Chris

 

 

 

-- 


Mit freundlichen Grüßen | Best regards

Christofer Dutz | Senior IT Consultant

 

codecentric AG | Kreuznacher Straße 30 | 60486 Frankfurt am Main | Deutschland 

mobil: +49 (1525) 3057806  <tel:+4915253057806>

fax: +49 (69) 75938200 <tel:+496975938200>

www.codecentric.de <http://www.codecentric.de>  < <http://www.codecentric.de/> http://www.codecentric.de/> | blog.codecentric.de < <http://blog.codecentric.de/> http://blog.codecentric.de/> | www.meettheexperts.de <http://www.meettheexperts.de>  < <http://www.meettheexperts.de/> http://www.meettheexperts.de/>    

 

Sitz der Gesellschaft: Solingen | HRB 25917| Amtsgericht Wuppertal

Vorstand: Michael Hochgürtel . Rainer Vehns

Aufsichtsrat: Patric Fedlmeier (Vorsitzender) . Klaus Jäger . Jürgen Schütz

 

Diese E-Mail einschließlich evtl. beigefügter Dateien enthält vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschützte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und löschen Sie diese E-Mail und evtl. beigefügter Dateien umgehend. Das unerlaubte Kopieren, Nutzen oder Öffnen evtl. beigefügter Dateien sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.

 

 

 

Von: Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com> >
Antworten an: <legal-discuss@apache.org <ma...@apache.org> >
Datum: Mittwoch, 1. November 2017 um 00:15
An: "legal-discuss@apache.org <ma...@apache.org> " <legal-discuss@apache.org <ma...@apache.org> >
Betreff: Re: Protocols and IP?

 

So, as a bizarre coincidence, I was at a customer's site today and one thing that they are very interested in is PLC controller data extraction.

 

Can you tell me a bit more about what you guys do?

 

 

 

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@codecentric.de <ma...@codecentric.de> > wrote:

Hi Betrand,

Yes, you are right … this issue is about a project, that is not yet an Apache project but I am planning on submitting an incubation proposal soon.

The thing is, if there are issues with the path I am going, there is no real need to continue the project. So, it would be instantly dead as soon as it’s in the incubator.

So, I took this issue to our company’s lawyers for now. I guess I’ll get some initial feedback from them soon.
As we are currently putting a lot of effort into this (Our design department is working on a logo and stuff like that), I am being paid for working on it. Colleagues are also investing their time. If the lawyers give me a “go”, I’ll continue my work and add their report to the incubation proposal.

Sort of a strange hen-egg problem ;-)

Chris

--

Mit freundlichen Grüßen | Best regards
Christofer Dutz | Senior IT Consultant

codecentric AG | Kreuznacher Straße 30 | 60486 Frankfurt am Main | Deutschland
mobil: +49 (1525) 3057806 <tel:%2B49%20%281525%29%203057806>   <tel:+4915253057806 <tel:%2B4915253057806> >
fax: +49 (69) 75938200 <tel:%2B49%20%2869%29%2075938200>  <tel:+496975938200 <tel:%2B496975938200> >
www.codecentric.de <http://www.codecentric.de>  <http://www.codecentric.de/> | blog.codecentric.de <http://blog.codecentric.de>  <http://blog.codecentric.de/> | www.meettheexperts.de <http://www.meettheexperts.de>  <http://www.meettheexperts.de/>

Sitz der Gesellschaft: Solingen | HRB 25917| Amtsgericht Wuppertal
Vorstand: Michael Hochgürtel . Rainer Vehns
Aufsichtsrat: Patric Fedlmeier (Vorsitzender) . Klaus Jäger . Jürgen Schütz

Diese E-Mail einschließlich evtl. beigefügter Dateien enthält vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschützte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und löschen Sie diese E-Mail und evtl. beigefügter Dateien umgehend. Das unerlaubte Kopieren, Nutzen oder Öffnen evtl. beigefügter Dateien sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser E-Mail ist nicht gestattet.



Am 31.10.17, 14:14 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bdelacretaz@apache.org <ma...@apache.org> >:


    On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Christofer Dutz
    <christofer.dutz@codecentric.de <ma...@codecentric.de> > wrote:
    > ...Guess it would be best to have this double checked by some paid lawyers....

    The ASF does have legal counsels, if what you're after is directly
    related to an Apache project the best IMO is to write a concise
    request for legal advice, which can be at
    https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/LEGAL if it's not
    confidential.

    If it's confidential, ask here how to proceed.

    IIUC your question is related to an incoming podling, in which case I
    think the best is to include the question (concise and concrete is
    best) in the podling proposal, and the Incubator can ask for help if
    needed in resolving the question.

    -Bertrand

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