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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com> on 2018/05/28 15:10:18 UTC
Apache on Apache was: Build systems [WAS: Re: [VOTE] Release Apache
NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1]
2018-05-25 16:58 GMT+02:00 Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>:
> On Fri, 25 May 2018 at 02:02 Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > IMO, Gradle is a step backward for build systems - scriptability leads to
> > fragile systems, and ones that are impossible for tools to reason about.
> >
> > https://timboudreau.com/blog/maven/read
> >
> >
> Nice article! I know you link it in a comment, but also worth posting
> Jaroslav's page on this too - http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Gradle
>
>
Now I see! I've noticed quite a lot of activity on twitter with respect to
this article. Now I know where it is coming from. Thanks for sharing!
When discussing[1] the build systems, have we also considered the Apache
view point - e.g. running Apache on Apache? From this perspective Ant and
Maven are +10...
-jt
[1] I assume this thread is just a discussion as nobody has the guts to
really rework the whole build system for all the (including not yet
donated) code, right?
Re: Apache on Apache was: Build systems [WAS: Re: [VOTE] Release
Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1]
Posted by "William L. Thomson Jr." <wl...@o-sinc.com>.
On Mon, 28 May 2018 21:40:29 -0400
Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Considering William L. Thomson Jr. single-handledly did the Gentoo
> > build system for NetBeans using portage it doesn't seem like an
> > impossible task.
I have been doing Gentoo ebuilds for over a decade. I can crank some
stuff out pretty quickly. I also re-did pretty much all of Java on
Gentoo to make packaging anything Java related less cumbersome. I was
pretty well versed and system re-designed when I took on Netbeans
packaging my way. Using the stuff I have been working on for sometime.
Though others said my effort for updating Java on Gentoo was seemingly
impossible. What is impossible for some is feasible for others :)
> Most modules will be pretty simple
The modules were pretty simple to package. That is also a testament to
consistent project structure for all sub projects. With a few
deviations here and there. For the amount of ebuilds, Netbeans was less
effort to package than other stuff with far less sub projects/modules.
Good work to all current and past Netbeans Developers!!!
Their good work is in part what saved me time. Much appreciated!!!
> - it's those that, say bundle runtimes and things like that whose
> builds are non-trivial. That may be less of an issue today than it
> was 15 years or so ago.
Hard to say, but likely switching to say Maven or Gradle would be more
work than it took me using Portage on Gentoo + my stuff. Then again my
stuff was a long time in the making ~2yrs. Had it not been for all that.
It would have likely taken more to package Netbeans or any Java package.
--
William L. Thomson Jr.
Re: Apache on Apache was: Build systems [WAS: Re: [VOTE] Release
Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1]
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
> Considering William L. Thomson Jr. single-handledly did the Gentoo build
> system for NetBeans using portage it doesn't seem like an impossible task.
Most modules will be pretty simple - it's those that, say bundle runtimes
and things like that whose builds are non-trivial. That may be less of an
issue today than it was 15 years or so ago.
-Tim
>
> Actually, one idea I would like to try is source-code only modules that
> get compiled at load time (kind-of like Tomcat compiles JSPs).
>
> This would greatly simplify our releases since most of the modules would
> be just compresses source code. Only a small part will have to be binary.
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On 28 May 2018 6:10 PM, Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 2018-05-25 16:58 GMT+02:00 Neil C Smith neilcsmith@apache.org:
> >
> > > On Fri, 25 May 2018 at 02:02 Tim Boudreau niftiness@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > IMO, Gradle is a step backward for build systems - scriptability
> leads to
> > > >
> > > > fragile systems, and ones that are impossible for tools to reason
> about.
> > > >
> > > > https://timboudreau.com/blog/maven/read
> > >
> > > Nice article! I know you link it in a comment, but also worth posting
> > >
> > > Jaroslav's page on this too - http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Gradle
> >
> > Now I see! I've noticed quite a lot of activity on twitter with respect
> to
> >
> > this article. Now I know where it is coming from. Thanks for sharing!
> >
> > When discussing[1] the build systems, have we also considered the Apache
> >
> > view point - e.g. running Apache on Apache? From this perspective Ant and
> >
> > Maven are +10...
> >
> > -jt
> >
> > [1] I assume this thread is just a discussion as nobody has the guts to
> >
> > really rework the whole build system for all the (including not yet
> >
> > donated) code, right?
>
>
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>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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>
>
>
> --
http://timboudreau.com
Re: Apache on Apache was: Build systems [WAS: Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 RC1 (incubating) rc1]
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
> When discussing[1] the build systems, have we also considered the Apache
> view point - e.g. running Apache on Apache? From this perspective Ant and
> Maven are +10...
Coding in Apache Groovy using an Apache Subversion repository and an Apache Ant build system :-)
> [1] I assume this thread is just a discussion as nobody has the guts to
> really rework the whole build system for all the (including not yet
> donated) code, right?
Considering William L. Thomson Jr. single-handledly did the Gentoo build system for NetBeans using portage it doesn't seem like an impossible task.
Actually, one idea I would like to try is source-code only modules that get compiled at load time (kind-of like Tomcat compiles JSPs).
This would greatly simplify our releases since most of the modules would be just compresses source code. Only a small part will have to be binary.
--emi
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On 28 May 2018 6:10 PM, Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2018-05-25 16:58 GMT+02:00 Neil C Smith neilcsmith@apache.org:
>
> > On Fri, 25 May 2018 at 02:02 Tim Boudreau niftiness@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > IMO, Gradle is a step backward for build systems - scriptability leads to
> > >
> > > fragile systems, and ones that are impossible for tools to reason about.
> > >
> > > https://timboudreau.com/blog/maven/read
> >
> > Nice article! I know you link it in a comment, but also worth posting
> >
> > Jaroslav's page on this too - http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Gradle
>
> Now I see! I've noticed quite a lot of activity on twitter with respect to
>
> this article. Now I know where it is coming from. Thanks for sharing!
>
> When discussing[1] the build systems, have we also considered the Apache
>
> view point - e.g. running Apache on Apache? From this perspective Ant and
>
> Maven are +10...
>
> -jt
>
> [1] I assume this thread is just a discussion as nobody has the guts to
>
> really rework the whole build system for all the (including not yet
>
> donated) code, right?
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