Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[julio cesar sanchez <jc...@gmail.com>]

I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things recently
that worried me

First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/phonegap/D7ydf_hNq-w

Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow
(from http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers)

cordova Questions
259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered


I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of
questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not sure
if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Frederico Galvão <fr...@pontoget.com.br>]

Hi, I'm from Brazil, been working with javascript seriously since 2008, and
have known and worked with cordova since 2012, and I'd also like to give my
50 cent on this.

I won't dig deep in the topic right now (but I'm willing to), but I have
said a few times that the issue with cordova is a <marketing> one, in the
sense that it does a bad job at telling users what it does or does not.

I'm still against calling cordova/Phonegap/PB a framework of any sort, as
it doesn't require you to write code in any specific way and also doesn't
generate actual application code. I'd rather have it be called a tool or a
lib. More a tool than a lib (unless you're using CordovaActivity/WebView on
your own).

Misplaced expectations made too many "web developers" (the sort that thinks
that jQuery is a programming language or that Facebook invented web
development with React, I'm sorry) think cordova would instantly solve all
existing problems on the way to mobility. And then we have these questions
on SO or forums all over. And then we have these articles calling cordova
<slow> (it would be the same as saying that projects built with gulp ran
faster than projects build with grunt, they don't, they don't generate
actual application code by themselves).

I've presented more than a few times on different local developer groups
and events, and with time I noticed this had become the main point of what
I was telling people, because that's what they wanted to hear:
Cordova is not a framework, it will NOT generate actual application code
for you (but a shell instead), and it does NOT guarantee UX/UI/feature
quality.

Nevertheless, I completely agree with the fact that a better flow for the
docs would solve/mitigate a huge chunk of the issues we see currently, and
very often do I find myself trying to picture a better flow, but I could
not yet (lack of time and/or proper thought gathering). As a developer
myself, and a curious one, I ended up going deeper into cordova development
process so that I could understand what was being made directly from the
"source" (this mailing list, for example, which I've been following for
more than a year). For a while, I used to check every commit on all
projects that I was affected by (android, ios, lib, js, doc) and even some
of the distant ones (wp8, ubuntu, coho), and even follow every issue on
jira for CB, and that's what built up my deep understanding of cordova as a
whole. The docs alone, in it's current stage, could never achieve such
enlightening, and I think it should.

Please, take this topic forward, let's all do something about it.

PS: The presentation I ended up using more than a couple of times is
available here http://slides.com/fredericogalvao/cordova-pontoget-coworking
, but I am sorry to say it's not available in english as of right now.
Please feel free to contact me for anything related, I'll be glad to help!

2015-08-28 8:50 GMT-03:00 Tammo Schimanski <ta...@cordova.de>:

> Hey Julio,
> I already did some translation via Crowdin. For Plugins as also for the
> main files. But unfortunately i also don’t have enough time to do the
> translation for all plugins and the main files. :-/
>
> Just had a look onto the prices for flights… i think, i can’t come, thats
> realy to expensive.
>
> The german documentation is very bad. It is not only bad translated, it is
> so bad that you’re sometimes are not able to understand what is meant.
> Maybe i can invest some hours at the next weekend to do some translation
> again.
>
> It feels good to have contact to other people who are also interested in
> helping new users :-)
>
> Greetings from Germany,
> Tammo
>
>
>
> Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:
>
> >Hi Tammo, great iniciative!
> >
> >I tried to do the same for spanish speakers, but I rarely have time to
> >write tutorials.
> >
> >"not all german developers are able to ask a question in english (although
> >you might thought that they are)."
> >
> >Yeah, on Spain we are told that ALL other european contries speak english
> >well because they learn since childhood.
> >
> >Have you checked the german documentation? is it good? maybe you can
> >contribute with the translation
> >
> >
> >About the face 2 face meeting, this was mentioned on that thread:
> >
> >"Also, just to be clear, we are not explicitly limiting this to committers
> >- anyone interested in the development of the project is welcome. However,
> >I am guessing that we will not be talking basics of Cordova, so this may
> >not be a meeting to learn about Cordova or how to use it."
> >
> >So, you have to judge yourself if it can be of your interest.
> >
> >
> >P.S: I'm a "small" person too, but we all can contribute.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >2015-08-28 12:17 GMT+02:00 Tammo Schimanski <tammo.schimanski@cordova.de
> >:
> >
> >> Hello to all of you from Germany,
> >> i never wrote an e-mail to this list before but i want to tell you
> >> something about the situation over here.
> >>
> >> I started developing applications with Cordova two years ago. It wasn’t
> >> easy to understand how Cordova works and how it has to be used. The docs
> >> didn’t help me enough so that i had to spend many hours in watching
> video
> >> tutorials on youtube and read many articles about the cordova workflow.
> >>
> >> After i developed applications for over a year, i decided to found a
> >> german community which helps users who feel like i felt a year ago. At
> the
> >> End of 2014 i wrote e-mails to apache, registered domains and invested
> many
> >> hours in research and writing tutorials, blog articles and so on. Down
> to
> >> the present day the main Tutorials (iOS & Android) were viewed over
> 40.000
> >> times. We have about 800 visits a day and are helping all people with
> their
> >> questions inside the board. Stackoverflow is also a great way to help
> >> people but not all german developers are able to ask a question in
> english
> >> (although you might thought that they are).
> >>
> >> My target ever was to help people who are sitting in front of their
> >> computers and thinking „hey… why aren’t you working cordova“ or „why
> >> doesn’t it work like expected“? In spring 2015 my colleague and i
> decided
> >> to make all a bit more professional. We weren’t satisfied by the website
> >> because all was a bit heavy to find (Tutorials etc.) and it was not
> state
> >> of the art. Again: E-Mails to apache, registered a new domain and now
> we’re
> >> starting a big project under www.cordova.de (first look for you:
> >> www.cordova.de/dev). I had to rewrite all tutorials, because its still
> >> our aim to make it understandable and clear for everyone! Till now we
> spent
> >> already over 250 hours together for the new project - but it is no
> problem:
> >> We love cordova! The Project will start at the end of September this
> year.
> >> Cordova is a possibility for companys creating a new branch. Every
> >> websitedeveloper is able to develop applications with Cordova - but not
> >> every Developer knows this. We want to spread cordova to every developer
> >> inside Germany!
> >>
> >> So yes, why am i writing you this all? I think, in comparison to you
> i’m a
> >> small person. If i see all the people here getting e-mails to @
> >> microsoft.com, @intel.com and so on…yes, i’m a small person. I just
> want
> >> to let you know, that if we can do anything from the other side of the
> big
> >> pond: Please let us know - we’re here, waiting for your instructions
> :-).
> >>
> >> I don’t know if this „Cordova face to face meeting“ is open for all but
> my
> >> colleague and i thought about coming to that meeting. Only because we’re
> >> interested into getting a deeper look into things and because we both
> want
> >> to get better and better. The better we get, the better we can help the
> >> users in understanding cordova.
> >>
> >> Belonging to the topic, Stackoverflow, frustration etc. - i understand
> >> Jesse Monroy. A big problem is that in many cases you just can post
> links
> >> „look here“ „read this“ etc. and if you give a detailed answer, you’ll
> >> never hear something again from that user like „worked for me“ or „no
> this
> >> doesn’t work“. Thats why we also created a „first steps in cordova“
> guide
> >> on our new website in which all mistakes which can be done are
> explained.
> >>
> >> Okay so… at least, sorry if something is unclear or understandable. I
> hope
> >> that it was at least a little bit interesting for you to get some
> feedback
> >> from Germany.
> >>
> >> Greetings from
> >> Tammo Schimanski
> >>
> >>
> >> E-Mail:                 tammo.schimanski@cordova.de
> >> Phone / Whatsapp:       + 49 162 40 98 169
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:
> >>
> >> >I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things
> >> recently
> >> >that worried me
> >> >
> >> >First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
> >> >https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/phonegap/D7ydf_hNq-w
> >> >
> >> >Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow
> >> >(from http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers)
> >> >
> >> >cordova Questions
> >> >259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
> >> >1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
> >> >37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of
> >> >questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not
> >> sure
> >> >if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>
>


-- 

*Frederico Galvão*

Diretor de Tecnologia

PontoGet Inovação Web


( +55(62) 8131-5720

* www.pontoget.com.br <http://www.pontoget.com/>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Tammo Schimanski <ta...@cordova.de>]

Hey Julio,
I already did some translation via Crowdin. For Plugins as also for the main files. But unfortunately i also don’t have enough time to do the translation for all plugins and the main files. :-/

Just had a look onto the prices for flights… i think, i can’t come, thats realy to expensive. 

The german documentation is very bad. It is not only bad translated, it is so bad that you’re sometimes are not able to understand what is meant. Maybe i can invest some hours at the next weekend to do some translation again.

It feels good to have contact to other people who are also interested in helping new users :-) 

Greetings from Germany,
Tammo



Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:

>Hi Tammo, great iniciative!
>
>I tried to do the same for spanish speakers, but I rarely have time to
>write tutorials.
>
>"not all german developers are able to ask a question in english (although
>you might thought that they are)."
>
>Yeah, on Spain we are told that ALL other european contries speak english
>well because they learn since childhood.
>
>Have you checked the german documentation? is it good? maybe you can
>contribute with the translation
>
>
>About the face 2 face meeting, this was mentioned on that thread:
>
>"Also, just to be clear, we are not explicitly limiting this to committers
>- anyone interested in the development of the project is welcome. However,
>I am guessing that we will not be talking basics of Cordova, so this may
>not be a meeting to learn about Cordova or how to use it."
>
>So, you have to judge yourself if it can be of your interest.
>
>
>P.S: I'm a "small" person too, but we all can contribute.
>
>
>
>
>2015-08-28 12:17 GMT+02:00 Tammo Schimanski <ta...@cordova.de>:
>
>> Hello to all of you from Germany,
>> i never wrote an e-mail to this list before but i want to tell you
>> something about the situation over here.
>>
>> I started developing applications with Cordova two years ago. It wasn’t
>> easy to understand how Cordova works and how it has to be used. The docs
>> didn’t help me enough so that i had to spend many hours in watching video
>> tutorials on youtube and read many articles about the cordova workflow.
>>
>> After i developed applications for over a year, i decided to found a
>> german community which helps users who feel like i felt a year ago. At the
>> End of 2014 i wrote e-mails to apache, registered domains and invested many
>> hours in research and writing tutorials, blog articles and so on. Down to
>> the present day the main Tutorials (iOS & Android) were viewed over 40.000
>> times. We have about 800 visits a day and are helping all people with their
>> questions inside the board. Stackoverflow is also a great way to help
>> people but not all german developers are able to ask a question in english
>> (although you might thought that they are).
>>
>> My target ever was to help people who are sitting in front of their
>> computers and thinking „hey… why aren’t you working cordova“ or „why
>> doesn’t it work like expected“? In spring 2015 my colleague and i decided
>> to make all a bit more professional. We weren’t satisfied by the website
>> because all was a bit heavy to find (Tutorials etc.) and it was not state
>> of the art. Again: E-Mails to apache, registered a new domain and now we’re
>> starting a big project under www.cordova.de (first look for you:
>> www.cordova.de/dev). I had to rewrite all tutorials, because its still
>> our aim to make it understandable and clear for everyone! Till now we spent
>> already over 250 hours together for the new project - but it is no problem:
>> We love cordova! The Project will start at the end of September this year.
>> Cordova is a possibility for companys creating a new branch. Every
>> websitedeveloper is able to develop applications with Cordova - but not
>> every Developer knows this. We want to spread cordova to every developer
>> inside Germany!
>>
>> So yes, why am i writing you this all? I think, in comparison to you i’m a
>> small person. If i see all the people here getting e-mails to @
>> microsoft.com, @intel.com and so on…yes, i’m a small person. I just want
>> to let you know, that if we can do anything from the other side of the big
>> pond: Please let us know - we’re here, waiting for your instructions :-).
>>
>> I don’t know if this „Cordova face to face meeting“ is open for all but my
>> colleague and i thought about coming to that meeting. Only because we’re
>> interested into getting a deeper look into things and because we both want
>> to get better and better. The better we get, the better we can help the
>> users in understanding cordova.
>>
>> Belonging to the topic, Stackoverflow, frustration etc. - i understand
>> Jesse Monroy. A big problem is that in many cases you just can post links
>> „look here“ „read this“ etc. and if you give a detailed answer, you’ll
>> never hear something again from that user like „worked for me“ or „no this
>> doesn’t work“. Thats why we also created a „first steps in cordova“ guide
>> on our new website in which all mistakes which can be done are explained.
>>
>> Okay so… at least, sorry if something is unclear or understandable. I hope
>> that it was at least a little bit interesting for you to get some feedback
>> from Germany.
>>
>> Greetings from
>> Tammo Schimanski
>>
>>
>> E-Mail:                 tammo.schimanski@cordova.de
>> Phone / Whatsapp:       + 49 162 40 98 169
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:
>>
>> >I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things
>> recently
>> >that worried me
>> >
>> >First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
>> >https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/phonegap/D7ydf_hNq-w
>> >
>> >Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow
>> >(from http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers)
>> >
>> >cordova Questions
>> >259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
>> >1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
>> >37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered
>> >
>> >
>> >I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of
>> >questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not
>> sure
>> >if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>>
>>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[julio cesar sanchez <jc...@gmail.com>]

Hi Tammo, great iniciative!

I tried to do the same for spanish speakers, but I rarely have time to
write tutorials.

"not all german developers are able to ask a question in english (although
you might thought that they are)."

Yeah, on Spain we are told that ALL other european contries speak english
well because they learn since childhood.

Have you checked the german documentation? is it good? maybe you can
contribute with the translation


About the face 2 face meeting, this was mentioned on that thread:

"Also, just to be clear, we are not explicitly limiting this to committers
- anyone interested in the development of the project is welcome. However,
I am guessing that we will not be talking basics of Cordova, so this may
not be a meeting to learn about Cordova or how to use it."

So, you have to judge yourself if it can be of your interest.


P.S: I'm a "small" person too, but we all can contribute.




2015-08-28 12:17 GMT+02:00 Tammo Schimanski <ta...@cordova.de>:

> Hello to all of you from Germany,
> i never wrote an e-mail to this list before but i want to tell you
> something about the situation over here.
>
> I started developing applications with Cordova two years ago. It wasn’t
> easy to understand how Cordova works and how it has to be used. The docs
> didn’t help me enough so that i had to spend many hours in watching video
> tutorials on youtube and read many articles about the cordova workflow.
>
> After i developed applications for over a year, i decided to found a
> german community which helps users who feel like i felt a year ago. At the
> End of 2014 i wrote e-mails to apache, registered domains and invested many
> hours in research and writing tutorials, blog articles and so on. Down to
> the present day the main Tutorials (iOS & Android) were viewed over 40.000
> times. We have about 800 visits a day and are helping all people with their
> questions inside the board. Stackoverflow is also a great way to help
> people but not all german developers are able to ask a question in english
> (although you might thought that they are).
>
> My target ever was to help people who are sitting in front of their
> computers and thinking „hey… why aren’t you working cordova“ or „why
> doesn’t it work like expected“? In spring 2015 my colleague and i decided
> to make all a bit more professional. We weren’t satisfied by the website
> because all was a bit heavy to find (Tutorials etc.) and it was not state
> of the art. Again: E-Mails to apache, registered a new domain and now we’re
> starting a big project under www.cordova.de (first look for you:
> www.cordova.de/dev). I had to rewrite all tutorials, because its still
> our aim to make it understandable and clear for everyone! Till now we spent
> already over 250 hours together for the new project - but it is no problem:
> We love cordova! The Project will start at the end of September this year.
> Cordova is a possibility for companys creating a new branch. Every
> websitedeveloper is able to develop applications with Cordova - but not
> every Developer knows this. We want to spread cordova to every developer
> inside Germany!
>
> So yes, why am i writing you this all? I think, in comparison to you i’m a
> small person. If i see all the people here getting e-mails to @
> microsoft.com, @intel.com and so on…yes, i’m a small person. I just want
> to let you know, that if we can do anything from the other side of the big
> pond: Please let us know - we’re here, waiting for your instructions :-).
>
> I don’t know if this „Cordova face to face meeting“ is open for all but my
> colleague and i thought about coming to that meeting. Only because we’re
> interested into getting a deeper look into things and because we both want
> to get better and better. The better we get, the better we can help the
> users in understanding cordova.
>
> Belonging to the topic, Stackoverflow, frustration etc. - i understand
> Jesse Monroy. A big problem is that in many cases you just can post links
> „look here“ „read this“ etc. and if you give a detailed answer, you’ll
> never hear something again from that user like „worked for me“ or „no this
> doesn’t work“. Thats why we also created a „first steps in cordova“ guide
> on our new website in which all mistakes which can be done are explained.
>
> Okay so… at least, sorry if something is unclear or understandable. I hope
> that it was at least a little bit interesting for you to get some feedback
> from Germany.
>
> Greetings from
> Tammo Schimanski
>
>
> E-Mail:                 tammo.schimanski@cordova.de
> Phone / Whatsapp:       + 49 162 40 98 169
>
>
>
>
>
> Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:
>
> >I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things
> recently
> >that worried me
> >
> >First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
> >https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/phonegap/D7ydf_hNq-w
> >
> >Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow
> >(from http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers)
> >
> >cordova Questions
> >259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
> >1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
> >37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered
> >
> >
> >I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of
> >questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not
> sure
> >if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Shazron <sh...@gmail.com>]

Please see my comments on Robert's document, do chime in:
https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss/pull/36

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016, Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I did, but as my reply said, it wasn't showing up.
>
> Regards
> *Rob Posener*
> 0419 012 627
>
> On 30 March 2016 at 05:01, Jesse <purplecabbage@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> > Good observations Julio, we should definitely talk to stack-overflow
> about
> > the merged tags.
> >
> > Robert, you didn't send the pull request back to cordova/cordova-discuss,
> > so no one could see it.  I have done so here:
> > https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss/pull/35
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > @purplecabbage
> > risingj.com
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 4:29 AM, julio cesar sanchez <
> > jcesarmobile@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Joe said:
> > >
> > > "I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
> > > PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions."
> > >
> > > It's curious that Ionic has it's own tag, with about the same number of
> > > questions that Cordova tag, but it's not on any of the lists (and it's
> > not
> > > because all Ionic questios are tagged with Cordova tag too, in fact,
> most
> > > of them aren't)
> > >
> > > But when people is using Phonegap and add the Phonegap tag to the
> > question,
> > > stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova tag because they decided long
> > > time ago that they were synonyms, so you can't use Phonegap tag and we
> > > can't be sure if they are using Cordova or Phonegap unless they tell it
> > on
> > > the question.
> > >
> > > I think that's a mistake by stack overflow part, because people using
> > > phonegap doesn't follow same workflow that people using cordova as
> > Phonegap
> > > docs are different, they mostly use the developer app to test, and
> > phonegap
> > > users might have different problems.
> > >
> > > There are a lot of questions about  "xxxx-xxxx 3rd party plugin isn't
> > > working on my app", and the problem is they are using the phonegap
> > > developer app. But they don't mention that they are using phonegap,
> they
> > > just add the phonegap tag, and stack overflow replaces it with a
> Cordova
> > > tag. They don't mention that they are using the Phonegap developer app
> > > neither because they think that's the way of running Phonegap apps. I
> see
> > > at least one of those everyday on stack overflow or some other forums.
> > >
> > > I've filed a few issues on the phonegap docs page so they can make
> > clearer
> > > to users that when using the phonegap developer app they are not really
> > > running their app, and they have some issues open to list the developer
> > app
> > > limitations. Once they are addressed, maybe the developers are a bit
> > > happier.
> > >
> > > But I'm not sure what to do about the stack overflow synonym, should we
> > > tell them to remove the synonym so people can use Phonegap and Cordova
> as
> > > different tags?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2016-03-29 8:23 GMT+02:00 Robert Posener <rposener8@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>>:
> > >
> > > > I think I have created a discussion, but it is not showing up... yet
> > > > another frustrations!
> > > >
> > > > Rob
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > *Rob Posener*
> > > > 0419 012 627
> > > >
> > > > On 29 March 2016 at 16:48, Parashuram N <panarasi@microsoft.com
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am not sure if everyone got the attachment. Rob, can I request
> you
> > > to
> > > > > create an issue on https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss so
> > that
> > > we
> > > > > could start following up on specific issues there ?
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Robert Posener <rposener8@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > > > > Reply-To: "dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>" <
> dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > Date: Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:08 PM
> > > > > To: "dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>" <
> dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > > > >
> > > > > Gerday all,
> > > > > Because of the serious nature of this thread, I have produced a
> > 6-page
> > > > > contribution of issues together with recommendations for fixing
> them
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > attachment to this email.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Rob Posener
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Rob Posener
> > > > > 0419 012 627
> > > > >
> > > > > On 19 March 2016 at 08:31, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com
> <javascript:;><mailto:
> > > > > bowserj@gmail.com <javascript:;>>> wrote:
> > > > > I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond.  We
> > > don't
> > > > > just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the
> > > > expectation.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and
> actually
> > > > solve
> > > > > the problem in a timely manner.  We've had both extremes of
> > discussing
> > > a
> > > > > problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for getting there, I have no idea.  Any thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal <
> rakatyal@microsoft.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > <mailto:rakatyal@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors'
> PRs
> > > > could
> > > > > > be candidates for improvement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com
> <javascript:;><mailto:
> > > > > nikhilkh@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> > > > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;><mailto:
> dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow
> > > > > > answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have,
> what
> > > are
> > > > > > there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge
> > > impact?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we
> > have
> > > > made
> > > > > > progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact
> of
> > > our
> > > > > > docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms
> of
> > > > > > organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of
> > docs –
> > > > > > tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other
> > > tools
> > > > > like
> > > > > > gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for
> > improvement?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had
> > > somewhat
> > > > > > high Net promoter score (NPS).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
> > > > > > [3]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <csantana23@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>
> > <mailto:
> > > > > csantana23@gmail.com <javascript:;>>> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >I agree Joe
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you
> > > once
> > > > a
> > > > > > >day.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not
> > > every
> > > > > > >day that I get something probably most every other day with a
> few.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what
> > > people
> > > > > > >are having problems on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>
> > > <mailto:
> > > > > bowserj@gmail.com <javascript:;>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should
> all
> > > > > > >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there
> with
> > > our
> > > > > > >> respective products/distributions.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <
> bowserj@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > <mailto:bowserj@gmail.com <javascript:;>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > > > > >> > <rsalva@microsoft.com <javascript:;><mailto:
> rsalva@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>>
> > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the
> technologies
> > > > that
> > > > > > >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options.
> > They
> > > > have
> > > > > > an "other"
> > > > > > >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely
> > driven
> > > > by
> > > > > > >> >> the checkbox options.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools
> > for
> > > > > > >> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com <javascript:;><mailto:
> > > rsalva@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> >> 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > > > > >> >> 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> <mailto:
> > > > > bowserj@gmail.com <javascript:;>>]
> > > > > > >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> > > > > > >> >> To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;><mailto:
> > dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > >>
> > > > > > >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers
> > > happy?
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > > > > >> >> <rsalva@microsoft.com <javascript:;><mailto:
> rsalva@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>>
> > > > > > >> >> wrote:
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of
> > > > > > >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech
> but
> > > > have
> > > > > > >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly,
> > it’s
> > > > > > >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also
> > doesn’t
> > > > > > reflect their stated intent.
> > > > > > >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has
> actually
> > > > > > >> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on…
> I’m
> > > just
> > > > > > >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.
> > I'd
> > > be
> > > > > > >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers"
> > section
> > > > of
> > > > > > >> >> the
> > > > > > >> trending
> > > > > > >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which
> > > > indicate
> > > > > > >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or
> are
> > > just
> > > > > > >> >> giving
> > > > > > >> up.  I
> > > > > > >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while,
> mostly
> > > > > > >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic
> > or
> > > > > > something else.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on
> Cordova,
> > > and
> > > > > > >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio
> Tools
> > > for
> > > > > > >> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com <javascript:;>
> <mailto:
> > > > rsalva@microsoft.com <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> >> > 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > > > > >> >> > 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com
> <javascript:;><mailto:
> > > > > bowserj@gmail.com <javascript:;>>]
> > > > > > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> > > > > > >> >> > To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;><mailto:
> > > dev@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > > >>
> > > > > > >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making
> developers
> > > > happy?
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <
> > > > purplecabbage@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > > > > <mailto:purplecabbage@gmail.com <javascript:;>>>
> > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what
> they
> > > > like!
> > > > > > >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what
> they
> > > > > > >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they
> > > > liked.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > +1
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and
> that
> > > it
> > > > > > >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would
> > > > happen
> > > > > > >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about
> > how
> > > > > > >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> > > > > > >> >> > > > <jcesarmobile@gmail.com <javascript:;><mailto:
> jcesarmobile@gmail.com <javascript:;>
> > >>
> > > > > > >> >> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> > > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > > > > > >> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> > > > > > >> >> > > ck
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
> > > > > > >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com<
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > > > > >%7cf296b880892e437222
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
> > > > > > >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
> > > > > > >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> > > > > > >> >> > > ve
> > > > > > >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%
> > 40microsoft.com
> > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> %7c342aabb
> > > > > > >> >> > > 95
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > >> >> > > ------
> > > > > > >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > > > <mailto:dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > dev-help@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > > > <mailto:dev-help@cordova.apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  B
> > > >
> KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB
> > > > > >   [  X  ܚX K  K[XZ[
> > > > > >    ] ][  X  ܚX P  ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B  ܈ Y  ] [ۘ[    [X[     K[XZ[
> > > > > >    ] Z [    ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>]

I did, but as my reply said, it wasn't showing up.

Regards
*Rob Posener*
0419 012 627

On 30 March 2016 at 05:01, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good observations Julio, we should definitely talk to stack-overflow about
> the merged tags.
>
> Robert, you didn't send the pull request back to cordova/cordova-discuss,
> so no one could see it.  I have done so here:
> https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss/pull/35
>
>
>
>
> @purplecabbage
> risingj.com
>
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 4:29 AM, julio cesar sanchez <
> jcesarmobile@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Joe said:
> >
> > "I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
> > PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions."
> >
> > It's curious that Ionic has it's own tag, with about the same number of
> > questions that Cordova tag, but it's not on any of the lists (and it's
> not
> > because all Ionic questios are tagged with Cordova tag too, in fact, most
> > of them aren't)
> >
> > But when people is using Phonegap and add the Phonegap tag to the
> question,
> > stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova tag because they decided long
> > time ago that they were synonyms, so you can't use Phonegap tag and we
> > can't be sure if they are using Cordova or Phonegap unless they tell it
> on
> > the question.
> >
> > I think that's a mistake by stack overflow part, because people using
> > phonegap doesn't follow same workflow that people using cordova as
> Phonegap
> > docs are different, they mostly use the developer app to test, and
> phonegap
> > users might have different problems.
> >
> > There are a lot of questions about  "xxxx-xxxx 3rd party plugin isn't
> > working on my app", and the problem is they are using the phonegap
> > developer app. But they don't mention that they are using phonegap, they
> > just add the phonegap tag, and stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova
> > tag. They don't mention that they are using the Phonegap developer app
> > neither because they think that's the way of running Phonegap apps. I see
> > at least one of those everyday on stack overflow or some other forums.
> >
> > I've filed a few issues on the phonegap docs page so they can make
> clearer
> > to users that when using the phonegap developer app they are not really
> > running their app, and they have some issues open to list the developer
> app
> > limitations. Once they are addressed, maybe the developers are a bit
> > happier.
> >
> > But I'm not sure what to do about the stack overflow synonym, should we
> > tell them to remove the synonym so people can use Phonegap and Cordova as
> > different tags?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-03-29 8:23 GMT+02:00 Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > I think I have created a discussion, but it is not showing up... yet
> > > another frustrations!
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > *Rob Posener*
> > > 0419 012 627
> > >
> > > On 29 March 2016 at 16:48, Parashuram N <pa...@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am not sure if everyone got the attachment. Rob, can I request  you
> > to
> > > > create an issue on https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss so
> that
> > we
> > > > could start following up on specific issues there ?
> > > >
> > > > From: Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>
> > > > Reply-To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > Date: Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:08 PM
> > > > To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > > >
> > > > Gerday all,
> > > > Because of the serious nature of this thread, I have produced a
> 6-page
> > > > contribution of issues together with recommendations for fixing them
> in
> > > the
> > > > attachment to this email.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Rob Posener
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Rob Posener
> > > > 0419 012 627
> > > >
> > > > On 19 March 2016 at 08:31, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > > bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond.  We
> > don't
> > > > just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the
> > > expectation.
> > > >
> > > > I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and actually
> > > solve
> > > > the problem in a timely manner.  We've had both extremes of
> discussing
> > a
> > > > problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well.
> > > >
> > > > As for getting there, I have no idea.  Any thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal <rakatyal@microsoft.com
> > > > <ma...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' PRs
> > > could
> > > > > be candidates for improvement.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com<mailto:
> > > > nikhilkh@microsoft.com>]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> > > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org<ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow
> > > > > answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what
> > are
> > > > > there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge
> > impact?
> > > > >
> > > > > I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we
> have
> > > made
> > > > > progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of
> > our
> > > > > docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of
> > > > > organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of
> docs –
> > > > > tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other
> > tools
> > > > like
> > > > > gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for
> improvement?
> > > > >
> > > > > I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had
> > somewhat
> > > > > high Net promoter score (NPS).
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
> > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
> > > > > [3]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <csantana23@gmail.com
> <mailto:
> > > > csantana23@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >I agree Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you
> > once
> > > a
> > > > > >day.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not
> > every
> > > > > >day that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what
> > people
> > > > > >are having problems on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com
> > <mailto:
> > > > bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all
> > > > > >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with
> > our
> > > > > >> respective products/distributions.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com
> > > > <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > > > >> > <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies
> > > that
> > > > > >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options.
> They
> > > have
> > > > > an "other"
> > > > > >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely
> driven
> > > by
> > > > > >> >> the checkbox options.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools
> for
> > > > > >> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<mailto:
> > rsalva@microsoft.com>
> > > > > >> >> 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > > > >> >> 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > > bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > > > > >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> > > > > >> >> To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:
> dev@cordova.apache.org
> > >>
> > > > > >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers
> > happy?
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > > > >> >> <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> > > > > >> >> wrote:
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of
> > > > > >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech but
> > > have
> > > > > >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly,
> it’s
> > > > > >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also
> doesn’t
> > > > > reflect their stated intent.
> > > > > >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually
> > > > > >> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m
> > just
> > > > > >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.
> I'd
> > be
> > > > > >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers"
> section
> > > of
> > > > > >> >> the
> > > > > >> trending
> > > > > >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which
> > > indicate
> > > > > >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or are
> > just
> > > > > >> >> giving
> > > > > >> up.  I
> > > > > >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly
> > > > > >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic
> or
> > > > > something else.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova,
> > and
> > > > > >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools
> > for
> > > > > >> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<mailto:
> > > rsalva@microsoft.com>
> > > > > >> >> > 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > > > >> >> > 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > > bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > > > > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> > > > > >> >> > To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:
> > dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > > > >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers
> > > happy?
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <
> > > purplecabbage@gmail.com
> > > > <ma...@gmail.com>>
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they
> > > like!
> > > > > >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they
> > > > > >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they
> > > liked.
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > +1
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that
> > it
> > > > > >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would
> > > happen
> > > > > >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about
> how
> > > > > >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> > > > > >> >> > > > <jcesarmobile@gmail.com<mailto:jcesarmobile@gmail.com
> >>
> > > > > >> >> > > wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > >> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > > > > >> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> > > > > >> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > > > > >> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > > > > >> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > > > > >> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > > > > >> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > > > > >> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > > > > >> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> > > > > >> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> > > > > >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > > > > >> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >>
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> > > > > >> >> > > ck
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
> > > > > >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com<
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > > > >%7cf296b880892e437222
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
> > > > > >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
> > > > > >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> > > > > >> >> > > ve
> > > > > >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%
> 40microsoft.com
> > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > > > >
> > > > > >> %7c342aabb
> > > > > >> >> > > 95
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >> >> > > ------
> > > > > >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > > > <ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > > >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> > > > <ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  B
> > > KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB
> > > > >   [  X  ܚX K  K[XZ[
> > > > >    ] ][  X  ܚX P  ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B  ܈ Y  ] [ۘ[    [X[     K[XZ[
> > > > >    ] Z [    ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>]

Good observations Julio, we should definitely talk to stack-overflow about
the merged tags.

Robert, you didn't send the pull request back to cordova/cordova-discuss,
so no one could see it.  I have done so here:
https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss/pull/35




@purplecabbage
risingj.com

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 4:29 AM, julio cesar sanchez <jcesarmobile@gmail.com
> wrote:

> Joe said:
>
> "I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
> PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions."
>
> It's curious that Ionic has it's own tag, with about the same number of
> questions that Cordova tag, but it's not on any of the lists (and it's not
> because all Ionic questios are tagged with Cordova tag too, in fact, most
> of them aren't)
>
> But when people is using Phonegap and add the Phonegap tag to the question,
> stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova tag because they decided long
> time ago that they were synonyms, so you can't use Phonegap tag and we
> can't be sure if they are using Cordova or Phonegap unless they tell it on
> the question.
>
> I think that's a mistake by stack overflow part, because people using
> phonegap doesn't follow same workflow that people using cordova as Phonegap
> docs are different, they mostly use the developer app to test, and phonegap
> users might have different problems.
>
> There are a lot of questions about  "xxxx-xxxx 3rd party plugin isn't
> working on my app", and the problem is they are using the phonegap
> developer app. But they don't mention that they are using phonegap, they
> just add the phonegap tag, and stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova
> tag. They don't mention that they are using the Phonegap developer app
> neither because they think that's the way of running Phonegap apps. I see
> at least one of those everyday on stack overflow or some other forums.
>
> I've filed a few issues on the phonegap docs page so they can make clearer
> to users that when using the phonegap developer app they are not really
> running their app, and they have some issues open to list the developer app
> limitations. Once they are addressed, maybe the developers are a bit
> happier.
>
> But I'm not sure what to do about the stack overflow synonym, should we
> tell them to remove the synonym so people can use Phonegap and Cordova as
> different tags?
>
>
>
>
> 2016-03-29 8:23 GMT+02:00 Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>:
>
> > I think I have created a discussion, but it is not showing up... yet
> > another frustrations!
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > Regards
> > *Rob Posener*
> > 0419 012 627
> >
> > On 29 March 2016 at 16:48, Parashuram N <pa...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I am not sure if everyone got the attachment. Rob, can I request  you
> to
> > > create an issue on https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss so that
> we
> > > could start following up on specific issues there ?
> > >
> > > From: Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>
> > > Reply-To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > Date: Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:08 PM
> > > To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > >
> > > Gerday all,
> > > Because of the serious nature of this thread, I have produced a 6-page
> > > contribution of issues together with recommendations for fixing them in
> > the
> > > attachment to this email.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Rob Posener
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Rob Posener
> > > 0419 012 627
> > >
> > > On 19 March 2016 at 08:31, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond.  We
> don't
> > > just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the
> > expectation.
> > >
> > > I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and actually
> > solve
> > > the problem in a timely manner.  We've had both extremes of discussing
> a
> > > problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well.
> > >
> > > As for getting there, I have no idea.  Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal <rakatyal@microsoft.com
> > > <ma...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' PRs
> > could
> > > > be candidates for improvement.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com<mailto:
> > > nikhilkh@microsoft.com>]
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org<ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > > >
> > > > I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow
> > > > answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what
> are
> > > > there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge
> impact?
> > > >
> > > > I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we have
> > made
> > > > progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of
> our
> > > > docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of
> > > > organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of docs –
> > > > tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other
> tools
> > > like
> > > > gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for improvement?
> > > >
> > > > I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had
> somewhat
> > > > high Net promoter score (NPS).
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
> > > > [3]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d
> > > >
> > > > On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > csantana23@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >I agree Joe
> > > > >
> > > > >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you
> once
> > a
> > > > >day.
> > > > >
> > > > >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
> > > > >
> > > > >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not
> every
> > > > >day that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
> > > > >
> > > > >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what
> people
> > > > >are having problems on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com
> <mailto:
> > > bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all
> > > > >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with
> our
> > > > >> respective products/distributions.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com
> > > <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > > >> > <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies
> > that
> > > > >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They
> > have
> > > > an "other"
> > > > >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven
> > by
> > > > >> >> the checkbox options.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> > > > >> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<mailto:
> rsalva@microsoft.com>
> > > > >> >> 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > > >> >> 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > > > >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> > > > >> >> To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org
> >>
> > > > >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers
> happy?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > > >> >> <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> > > > >> >> wrote:
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of
> > > > >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech but
> > have
> > > > >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s
> > > > >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also doesn’t
> > > > reflect their stated intent.
> > > > >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually
> > > > >> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m
> just
> > > > >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd
> be
> > > > >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section
> > of
> > > > >> >> the
> > > > >> trending
> > > > >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which
> > indicate
> > > > >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or are
> just
> > > > >> >> giving
> > > > >> up.  I
> > > > >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly
> > > > >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic or
> > > > something else.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova,
> and
> > > > >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools
> for
> > > > >> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<mailto:
> > rsalva@microsoft.com>
> > > > >> >> > 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > > >> >> > 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > > > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> > > > >> >> > To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:
> dev@cordova.apache.org
> > >>
> > > > >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers
> > happy?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <
> > purplecabbage@gmail.com
> > > <ma...@gmail.com>>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they
> > like!
> > > > >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they
> > > > >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they
> > liked.
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > +1
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that
> it
> > > > >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would
> > happen
> > > > >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how
> > > > >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> > > > >> >> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>>
> > > > >> >> > > wrote:
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > > > >> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> > > > >> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > > > >> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > > > >> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > > > >> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > > > >> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > > > >> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > > > >> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> > > > >> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> > > > >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > > > >> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> > > > >> >> > > ck
> > > > >> >> > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
> > > > >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com<
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > > >%7cf296b880892e437222
> > > > >> >> > >
> > 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
> > > > >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
> > > > >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> > > > >> >> > > ve
> > > > >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com
> <
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > > >
> > > > >> %7c342aabb
> > > > >> >> > > 95
> > > > >> >> > >
> > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> >> > > ------
> > > > >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > > <ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> > > <ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  B
> > KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB
> > > >   [  X  ܚX K  K[XZ[
> > > >    ] ][  X  ܚX P  ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B  ܈ Y  ] [ۘ[    [X[     K[XZ[
> > > >    ] Z [    ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[julio cesar sanchez <jc...@gmail.com>]

Joe said:

"I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions."

It's curious that Ionic has it's own tag, with about the same number of
questions that Cordova tag, but it's not on any of the lists (and it's not
because all Ionic questios are tagged with Cordova tag too, in fact, most
of them aren't)

But when people is using Phonegap and add the Phonegap tag to the question,
stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova tag because they decided long
time ago that they were synonyms, so you can't use Phonegap tag and we
can't be sure if they are using Cordova or Phonegap unless they tell it on
the question.

I think that's a mistake by stack overflow part, because people using
phonegap doesn't follow same workflow that people using cordova as Phonegap
docs are different, they mostly use the developer app to test, and phonegap
users might have different problems.

There are a lot of questions about  "xxxx-xxxx 3rd party plugin isn't
working on my app", and the problem is they are using the phonegap
developer app. But they don't mention that they are using phonegap, they
just add the phonegap tag, and stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova
tag. They don't mention that they are using the Phonegap developer app
neither because they think that's the way of running Phonegap apps. I see
at least one of those everyday on stack overflow or some other forums.

I've filed a few issues on the phonegap docs page so they can make clearer
to users that when using the phonegap developer app they are not really
running their app, and they have some issues open to list the developer app
limitations. Once they are addressed, maybe the developers are a bit
happier.

But I'm not sure what to do about the stack overflow synonym, should we
tell them to remove the synonym so people can use Phonegap and Cordova as
different tags?




2016-03-29 8:23 GMT+02:00 Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>:

> I think I have created a discussion, but it is not showing up... yet
> another frustrations!
>
> Rob
>
> Regards
> *Rob Posener*
> 0419 012 627
>
> On 29 March 2016 at 16:48, Parashuram N <pa...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > I am not sure if everyone got the attachment. Rob, can I request  you to
> > create an issue on https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss so that we
> > could start following up on specific issues there ?
> >
> > From: Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>
> > Reply-To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > Date: Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:08 PM
> > To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >
> > Gerday all,
> > Because of the serious nature of this thread, I have produced a 6-page
> > contribution of issues together with recommendations for fixing them in
> the
> > attachment to this email.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Rob Posener
> >
> > Regards
> > Rob Posener
> > 0419 012 627
> >
> > On 19 March 2016 at 08:31, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond.  We don't
> > just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the
> expectation.
> >
> > I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and actually
> solve
> > the problem in a timely manner.  We've had both extremes of discussing a
> > problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well.
> >
> > As for getting there, I have no idea.  Any thoughts?
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal <rakatyal@microsoft.com
> > <ma...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' PRs
> could
> > > be candidates for improvement.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com<mailto:
> > nikhilkh@microsoft.com>]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org<ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > >
> > > I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow
> > > answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what are
> > > there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge impact?
> > >
> > > I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we have
> made
> > > progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of our
> > > docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of
> > > organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of docs –
> > > tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other tools
> > like
> > > gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for improvement?
> > >
> > > I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had somewhat
> > > high Net promoter score (NPS).
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
> > > [3]
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d
> > >
> > > On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:
> > csantana23@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I agree Joe
> > > >
> > > >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you once
> a
> > > >day.
> > > >
> > > >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
> > > >
> > > >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not every
> > > >day that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
> > > >
> > > >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what people
> > > >are having problems on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all
> > > >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our
> > > >> respective products/distributions.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com
> > <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > >> > <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies
> that
> > > >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They
> have
> > > an "other"
> > > >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven
> by
> > > >> >> the checkbox options.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> > > >> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<ma...@microsoft.com>
> > > >> >> 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > >> >> 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > > >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> > > >> >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>>
> > > >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > >> >> <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of
> > > >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech but
> have
> > > >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s
> > > >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also doesn’t
> > > reflect their stated intent.
> > > >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually
> > > >> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just
> > > >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be
> > > >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section
> of
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> trending
> > > >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which
> indicate
> > > >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just
> > > >> >> giving
> > > >> up.  I
> > > >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly
> > > >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic or
> > > something else.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and
> > > >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> > > >> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<mailto:
> rsalva@microsoft.com>
> > > >> >> > 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > >> >> > 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> > > >> >> > To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org
> >>
> > > >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers
> happy?
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <
> purplecabbage@gmail.com
> > <ma...@gmail.com>>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they
> like!
> > > >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they
> > > >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they
> liked.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > +1
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it
> > > >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would
> happen
> > > >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how
> > > >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> > > >> >> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>>
> > > >> >> > > wrote:
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > > >> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> > > >> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > > >> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > > >> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > > >> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > > >> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > > >> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > > >> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> > > >> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> > > >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > > >> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> > > >> >> > > ck
> > > >> >> > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
> > > >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com<
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > >%7cf296b880892e437222
> > > >> >> > >
> 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
> > > >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
> > > >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> > > >> >> > > ve
> > > >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com<
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > >
> > > >> %7c342aabb
> > > >> >> > > 95
> > > >> >> > >
> ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> > > ------
> > > >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > <ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> > <ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >  B
> KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB
> > >   [  X  ܚX K  K[XZ[
> > >    ] ][  X  ܚX P  ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B  ܈ Y  ] [ۘ[    [X[     K[XZ[
> > >    ] Z [    ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B
> > >
> >
> >
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>]

I think I have created a discussion, but it is not showing up... yet
another frustrations!

Rob

Regards
*Rob Posener*
0419 012 627

On 29 March 2016 at 16:48, Parashuram N <pa...@microsoft.com> wrote:

> I am not sure if everyone got the attachment. Rob, can I request  you to
> create an issue on https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss so that we
> could start following up on specific issues there ?
>
> From: Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> Date: Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:08 PM
> To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>
> Gerday all,
> Because of the serious nature of this thread, I have produced a 6-page
> contribution of issues together with recommendations for fixing them in the
> attachment to this email.
>
> Regards
>
> Rob Posener
>
> Regards
> Rob Posener
> 0419 012 627
>
> On 19 March 2016 at 08:31, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond.  We don't
> just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the expectation.
>
> I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and actually solve
> the problem in a timely manner.  We've had both extremes of discussing a
> problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well.
>
> As for getting there, I have no idea.  Any thoughts?
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal <rakatyal@microsoft.com
> <ma...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
>
> > I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' PRs could
> > be candidates for improvement.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com<mailto:
> nikhilkh@microsoft.com>]
> > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org<ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >
> > I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow
> > answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what are
> > there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge impact?
> >
> > I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we have made
> > progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of our
> > docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of
> > organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of docs –
> > tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other tools
> like
> > gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for improvement?
> >
> > I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had somewhat
> > high Net promoter score (NPS).
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
> > [2]
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
> > [3]
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d
> >
> > On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:
> csantana23@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > >I agree Joe
> > >
> > >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you once a
> > >day.
> > >
> > >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
> > >
> > >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not every
> > >day that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
> > >
> > >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what people
> > >are having problems on.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all
> > >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our
> > >> respective products/distributions.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > >> > <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that
> > >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have
> > an "other"
> > >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by
> > >> >> the checkbox options.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> > >> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<ma...@microsoft.com>
> > >> >> 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > >> >> 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> > >> >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>>
> > >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > >> >> <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of
> > >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech but have
> > >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s
> > >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also doesn’t
> > reflect their stated intent.
> > >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually
> > >> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just
> > >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be
> > >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of
> > >> >> the
> > >> trending
> > >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate
> > >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just
> > >> >> giving
> > >> up.  I
> > >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly
> > >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic or
> > something else.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and
> > >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> > >> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<ma...@microsoft.com>
> > >> >> > 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > >> >> > 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> > >> >> > To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>>
> > >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <purplecabbage@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like!
> > >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they
> > >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > +1
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it
> > >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen
> > >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how
> > >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> > >> >> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>>
> > >> >> > > wrote:
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > >> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> > >> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > >> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > >> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > >> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > >> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > >> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > >> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> > >> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> > >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > >> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> > >> >> > > ck
> > >> >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
> > >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> >%7cf296b880892e437222
> > >> >> > > 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
> > >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
> > >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> > >> >> > > ve
> > >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> >
> > >> %7c342aabb
> > >> >> > > 95
> > >> >> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >> > > ------
> > >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> <ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> <ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> >
> >  B KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB
> >   [  X  ܚX K  K[XZ[
> >    ] ][  X  ܚX P  ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B  ܈ Y  ] [ۘ[    [X[     K[XZ[
> >    ] Z [    ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B
> >
>
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Parashuram N <pa...@microsoft.com>]

I am not sure if everyone got the attachment. Rob, can I request  you to create an issue on https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss so that we could start following up on specific issues there ?

From: Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
Date: Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:08 PM
To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

Gerday all,
Because of the serious nature of this thread, I have produced a 6-page contribution of issues together with recommendations for fixing them in the attachment to this email.

Regards

Rob Posener

Regards
Rob Posener
0419 012 627

On 19 March 2016 at 08:31, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond.  We don't
just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the expectation.

I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and actually solve
the problem in a timely manner.  We've had both extremes of discussing a
problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well.

As for getting there, I have no idea.  Any thoughts?

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal <ra...@microsoft.com>> wrote:

> I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' PRs could
> be candidates for improvement.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com<ma...@microsoft.com>]
> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> To: dev@cordova.apache.org<ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>
> I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow
> answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what are
> there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge impact?
>
> I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we have made
> progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of our
> docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of
> organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of docs –
> tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other tools like
> gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for improvement?
>
> I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had somewhat
> high Net promoter score (NPS).
>
> [1]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
> [2]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
> [3]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d
>
> On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <cs...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >I agree Joe
> >
> >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you once a
> >day.
> >
> >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
> >
> >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not every
> >day that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
> >
> >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what people
> >are having problems on.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all
> >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our
> >> respective products/distributions.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> >> > <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that
> >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have
> an "other"
> >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by
> >> >> the checkbox options.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> >> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<ma...@microsoft.com>
> >> >> 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> >> >> 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com>]
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> >> >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>>
> >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> >> >> <rs...@microsoft.com>>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of
> >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech but have
> >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s
> >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also doesn’t
> reflect their stated intent.
> >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually
> >> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just
> >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be
> >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of
> >> >> the
> >> trending
> >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate
> >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just
> >> >> giving
> >> up.  I
> >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly
> >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic or
> something else.
> >> >>
> >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and
> >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> >> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<ma...@microsoft.com>
> >> >> > 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> >> >> > 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com>]
> >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> >> >> > To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>>
> >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like!
> >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they
> >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > +1
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it
> >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen
> >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how
> >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> >> >> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>>
> >> >> > > wrote:
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> >> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> >> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> >> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> >> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> >> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> >> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> >> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> >> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> >> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> >> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> >> >> > > ck
> >> >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
> >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d>%7cf296b880892e437222
> >> >> > > 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
> >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
> >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> >> >> > > ve
> >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d>
> >> %7c342aabb
> >> >> > > 95
> >> >> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > ------
> >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org<ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org<ma...@cordova.apache.org>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
>
>  B KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB
>   [  X  ܚX K  K[XZ[
>    ] ][  X  ܚX P  ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B  ܈ Y  ] [ۘ[    [X[     K[XZ[
>    ] Z [    ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Robert Posener <rp...@gmail.com>]

Gerday all,
Because of the serious nature of this thread, I have produced a 6-page
contribution of issues together with recommendations for fixing them in the
attachment to this email.

Regards

Rob Posener

Regards
*Rob Posener*
0419 012 627

On 19 March 2016 at 08:31, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond.  We don't
> just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the expectation.
>
> I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and actually solve
> the problem in a timely manner.  We've had both extremes of discussing a
> problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well.
>
> As for getting there, I have no idea.  Any thoughts?
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal <ra...@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' PRs could
> > be candidates for improvement.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com]
> > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >
> > I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow
> > answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what are
> > there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge impact?
> >
> > I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we have made
> > progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of our
> > docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of
> > organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of docs –
> > tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other tools
> like
> > gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for improvement?
> >
> > I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had somewhat
> > high Net promoter score (NPS).
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
> > [2]
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
> > [3]
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d
> >
> > On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I agree Joe
> > >
> > >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you once a
> > >day.
> > >
> > >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
> > >
> > >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not every
> > >day that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
> > >
> > >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what people
> > >are having problems on.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all
> > >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our
> > >> respective products/distributions.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > >> > <rs...@microsoft.com>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that
> > >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have
> > an "other"
> > >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by
> > >> >> the checkbox options.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> > >> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
> > >> >> 425 706 5270 office
> > >> >> 206 612 5079 mobile
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> > >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> > >> >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > >> >> <rs...@microsoft.com>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of
> > >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech but have
> > >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s
> > >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also doesn’t
> > reflect their stated intent.
> > >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually
> > >> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just
> > >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be
> > >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of
> > >> >> the
> > >> trending
> > >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate
> > >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just
> > >> >> giving
> > >> up.  I
> > >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly
> > >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic or
> > something else.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and
> > >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> > >> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
> > >> >> > 425 706 5270 office
> > >> >> > 206 612 5079 mobile
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> > >> >> > To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like!
> > >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they
> > >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > +1
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it
> > >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen
> > >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how
> > >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> > >> >> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>
> > >> >> > > wrote:
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > >> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> > >> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > >> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > >> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > >> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > >> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > >> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > >> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> > >> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> > >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > >> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> > >> >> > > ck
> > >> >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
> > >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com%7cf296b880892e437222
> > >> >> > > 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
> > >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
> > >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> > >> >> > > ve
> > >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com
> > >> %7c342aabb
> > >> >> > > 95
> > >> >> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >> > > ------
> > >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> >
> >  B KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB
> >   [  X  ܚX K  K[XZ[
> >    ] ][  X  ܚX P  ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B  ܈ Y  ] [ۘ[    [X[     K[XZ[
> >    ] Z [    ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B
> >
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>]

I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond.  We don't
just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the expectation.

I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and actually solve
the problem in a timely manner.  We've had both extremes of discussing a
problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well.

As for getting there, I have no idea.  Any thoughts?

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal <ra...@microsoft.com> wrote:

> I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' PRs could
> be candidates for improvement.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>
> I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow
> answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what are
> there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge impact?
>
> I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we have made
> progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of our
> docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of
> organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of docs –
> tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other tools like
> gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for improvement?
>
> I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had somewhat
> high Net promoter score (NPS).
>
> [1]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
> [2]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
> [3]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d
>
> On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I agree Joe
> >
> >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you once a
> >day.
> >
> >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
> >
> >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not every
> >day that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
> >
> >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what people
> >are having problems on.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all
> >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our
> >> respective products/distributions.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> >> > <rs...@microsoft.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that
> >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have
> an "other"
> >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by
> >> >> the checkbox options.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> >> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
> >> >> 425 706 5270 office
> >> >> 206 612 5079 mobile
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> >> >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> >> >> <rs...@microsoft.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of
> >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech but have
> >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s
> >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also doesn’t
> reflect their stated intent.
> >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually
> >> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just
> >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be
> >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of
> >> >> the
> >> trending
> >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate
> >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just
> >> >> giving
> >> up.  I
> >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly
> >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic or
> something else.
> >> >>
> >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and
> >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for
> >> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
> >> >> > 425 706 5270 office
> >> >> > 206 612 5079 mobile
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> >> >> > To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like!
> >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they
> >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > +1
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it
> >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen
> >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how
> >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> >> >> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>
> >> >> > > wrote:
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> >> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> >> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> >> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> >> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> >> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> >> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> >> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> >> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> >> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> >> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> >> >> > > ck
> >> >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
> >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com%7cf296b880892e437222
> >> >> > > 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
> >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
> >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> >> >> > > ve
> >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com
> >> %7c342aabb
> >> >> > > 95
> >> >> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > ------
> >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
>
>  B KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB
>   [  X  ܚX K  K[XZ[
>    ] ][  X  ܚX P  ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B  ܈ Y  ] [ۘ[    [X[     K[XZ[
>    ] Z [    ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B
>

RE: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Raghav Katyal <ra...@microsoft.com>]

I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' PRs could be candidates for improvement.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com] 
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what are there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge impact? 

I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we have made progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of our docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of docs – tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other tools like gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for improvement?

I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had somewhat high Net promoter score (NPS).

[1] https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
[2] https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
[3] https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d

On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I agree Joe
>
>It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you once a 
>day.
>
>I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
>
>I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not every 
>day that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
>
>At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what people 
>are having problems on.
>
>
>
>On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all 
>> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our 
>> respective products/distributions.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva 
>> > <rs...@microsoft.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that 
>> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have an "other"
>> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by 
>> >> the checkbox options.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for 
>> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
>> >> 425 706 5270 office
>> >> 206 612 5079 mobile
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
>> >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva 
>> >> <rs...@microsoft.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
>> >> >
>> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of 
>> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech but have 
>> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s 
>> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also doesn’t reflect their stated intent.
>> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually 
>> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
>> >> >
>> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just 
>> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be 
>> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of 
>> >> the
>> trending
>> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate 
>> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just 
>> >> giving
>> up.  I
>> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly 
>> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic or something else.
>> >>
>> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and 
>> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for 
>> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
>> >> > 425 706 5270 office
>> >> > 206 612 5079 mobile
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
>> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
>> >> > To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
>> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! 
>> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they 
>> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > +1
>> >> >
>> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it 
>> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen 
>> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how 
>> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez 
>> >> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
>> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
>> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
>> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
>> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
>> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
>> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
>> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
>> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
>> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
>> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
>> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
>> >> > > ck
>> >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
>> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com%7cf296b880892e437222
>> >> > > 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
>> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
>> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
>> >> > > ve
>> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com
>> %7c342aabb
>> >> > > 95
>> >> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
>> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > ------
>> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>


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 ] ][  X  ܚX P ܙݘK \X K ܙ B  ܈Y][ۘ[  [X[  K[XZ[
 ] Z[ ܙݘK \X K ܙ B

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Nikhil Khandelwal <ni...@microsoft.com>]

I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what are there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge impact? 

I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we have made progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of our docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of docs – tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other tools like gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for improvement?

I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had somewhat high Net promoter score (NPS).

[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cordova-dev/201504.mbox/%3CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8@Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%3E
[2] https://cordova.apache.org/announcements/2016/03/03/docs-improvement.html
[3] https://apachecordovabot.typeform.com/report/BCc5co/JQLG

On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I agree Joe
>
>It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you once a
>day.
>
>I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
>
>I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not every day
>that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
>
>At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what people are
>having problems on.
>
>
>
>On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all spend a
>> bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our respective
>> products/distributions.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that Stack
>> >> Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have an "other"
>> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by the
>> >> checkbox options.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager
>> >> Visual Studio Tools for Apache Cordova
>> >> rsalva@microsoft.com
>> >> 425 706 5270 office
>> >> 206 612 5079 mobile
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
>> >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
>> >> >
>> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of developers
>> >> > who are developing with the language or tech but have not expressed
>> >> > interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s not a good list to be
>> >> > on, but developer behavior also doesn’t reflect their stated intent.
>> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually doubled
>> >> > since the same time last year.
>> >> >
>> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just not
>> >> > sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be more
>> >> concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of the
>> trending
>> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate that
>> >> people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just giving
>> up.  I
>> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly because
>> >> they're using some third party framework like ionic or something else.
>> >>
>> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
>> >> PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for Apache
>> >> > Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
>> >> > 425 706 5270 office
>> >> > 206 612 5079 mobile
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
>> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
>> >> > To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
>> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! They
>> >> > > are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they think they
>> >> > > like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > +1
>> >> >
>> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it passed
>> >> > Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen if we went
>> >> > on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how people were so
>> >> > unhappy with WordPress.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
>> >> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
>> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
>> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
>> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
>> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
>> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
>> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
>> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
>> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
>> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
>> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
>> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
>> >> > > ck
>> >> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.com&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com%7cf296b880892e4372223b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
>> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
>> >> > > ve
>> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com
>> %7c342aabb
>> >> > > 95
>> >> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
>> >> > > =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com>]

I agree Joe

It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you once a
day.

I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"

I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not every day
that I get something probably most every other day with a few.

At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what people are
having problems on.



On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all spend a
> bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our respective
> products/distributions.
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that Stack
> >> Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have an "other"
> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by the
> >> checkbox options.
> >>
> >>
> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager
> >> Visual Studio Tools for Apache Cordova
> >> rsalva@microsoft.com
> >> 425 706 5270 office
> >> 206 612 5079 mobile
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> >> >
> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of developers
> >> > who are developing with the language or tech but have not expressed
> >> > interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s not a good list to be
> >> > on, but developer behavior also doesn’t reflect their stated intent.
> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually doubled
> >> > since the same time last year.
> >> >
> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just not
> >> > sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be more
> >> concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of the
> trending
> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate that
> >> people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just giving
> up.  I
> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly because
> >> they're using some third party framework like ionic or something else.
> >>
> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
> >> PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for Apache
> >> > Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
> >> > 425 706 5270 office
> >> > 206 612 5079 mobile
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> >> > To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! They
> >> > > are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they think they
> >> > > like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > +1
> >> >
> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it passed
> >> > Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen if we went
> >> > on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how people were so
> >> > unhappy with WordPress.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> >> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> >> > > ck
> >> > > overflow.com
> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> >> > > ve
> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com
> %7c342aabb
> >> > > 95
> >> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> >> > > =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> >> > >
> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>]

BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all spend a
bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our respective
products/distributions.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that Stack
>> Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have an "other"
>> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by the
>> checkbox options.
>>
>>
> So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager
>> Visual Studio Tools for Apache Cordova
>> rsalva@microsoft.com
>> 425 706 5270 office
>> 206 612 5079 mobile
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
>> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
>> >
>> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of developers
>> > who are developing with the language or tech but have not expressed
>> > interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s not a good list to be
>> > on, but developer behavior also doesn’t reflect their stated intent.
>> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually doubled
>> > since the same time last year.
>> >
>> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just not
>> > sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
>> >
>>
>> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be more
>> concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of the trending
>> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate that
>> people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just giving up.  I
>> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly because
>> they're using some third party framework like ionic or something else.
>>
>> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
>> PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for Apache
>> > Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
>> > 425 706 5270 office
>> > 206 612 5079 mobile
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
>> > To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
>> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! They
>> > > are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they think they
>> > > like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > +1
>> >
>> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it passed
>> > Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen if we went
>> > on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how people were so
>> > unhappy with WordPress.
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
>> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > 2016 survey is out
>> > > >
>> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
>> > > >
>> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
>> > > > WordPress              74.3%
>> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
>> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
>> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
>> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
>> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
>> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
>> > > > Other                       61.5%
>> > > > Perl                         61.3%
>> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
>> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
>> > > ck
>> > > overflow.com%2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
>> > > ve
>> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c342aabb
>> > > 95
>> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
>> > > =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
>> > >
>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that Stack
> Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have an "other"
> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by the
> checkbox options.
>
>
So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???



>
>
> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager
> Visual Studio Tools for Apache Cordova
> rsalva@microsoft.com
> 425 706 5270 office
> 206 612 5079 mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> >
> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of developers
> > who are developing with the language or tech but have not expressed
> > interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s not a good list to be
> > on, but developer behavior also doesn’t reflect their stated intent.
> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually doubled
> > since the same time last year.
> >
> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just not
> > sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> >
>
> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be more
> concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of the trending
> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate that
> people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just giving up.  I
> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly because
> they're using some third party framework like ionic or something else.
>
> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
> PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for Apache
> > Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
> > 425 706 5270 office
> > 206 612 5079 mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> > To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! They
> > > are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they think they
> > > like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
> > >
> > >
> > +1
> >
> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it passed
> > Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen if we went
> > on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how people were so
> > unhappy with WordPress.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> > > > <jc...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 2016 survey is out
> > > >
> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > > >
> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > > > Other                       61.5%
> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > > >
> > > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> > > ck
> > > overflow.com%2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> > > ve
> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c342aabb
> > > 95
> > > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > > =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>

RE: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

["Ryan J. Salva" <rs...@microsoft.com>]

Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies that Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options. They have an "other" option with a text box, but people's answers are largely driven by the checkbox options.




Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager
Visual Studio Tools for Apache Cordova
rsalva@microsoft.com
425 706 5270 office
206 612 5079 mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com> wrote:

> As I told some of my co-workers today:
>
> If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of developers 
> who are developing with the language or tech but have not expressed 
> interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s not a good list to be 
> on, but developer behavior also doesn’t reflect their stated intent. 
> NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually doubled 
> since the same time last year.
>
> Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just not 
> sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
>

I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of the trending tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate that people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just giving up.  I haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly because they're using some third party framework like ionic or something else.

I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.


>
>
> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools for Apache 
> Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com
> 425 706 5270 office
> 206 612 5079 mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! They 
> > are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they think they 
> > like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
> >
> >
> +1
>
> It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it passed 
> Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen if we went 
> on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how people were so 
> unhappy with WordPress.
>
>
> >
> > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez 
> > > <jc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 2016 survey is out
> > >
> > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > >
> > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > > WordPress              74.3%
> > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > > Other                       61.5%
> > > Perl                         61.3%
> > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > >
> > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> > ck 
> > overflow.com%2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> > ve
> > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c342aabb
> > 95 
> > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva <rs...@microsoft.com> wrote:

> As I told some of my co-workers today:
>
> If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of developers who
> are developing with the language or tech but have not expressed interest in
> continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s not a good list to be on, but developer
> behavior also doesn’t reflect their stated intent. NPM Stats show the
> number of Cordova downloads has actually doubled since the same time last
> year.
>
> Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just not sure
> what to make of it given developer behavior.
>

I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.  I'd be more
concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section of the trending
tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which indicate that
people either have no problems (not very likely) or are just giving up.  I
haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly because
they're using some third party framework like ionic or something else.

I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.


>
>
> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager
> Visual Studio Tools for Apache Cordova
> rsalva@microsoft.com
> 425 706 5270 office
> 206 612 5079 mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! They
> > are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they think they like,
> > or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
> >
> >
> +1
>
> It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it passed
> Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen if we went on the
> WordPress mailing list and talked about how people were so unhappy with
> WordPress.
>
>
> >
> > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> > > <jc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 2016 survey is out
> > >
> > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > >
> > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > > WordPress              74.3%
> > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > > Other                       61.5%
> > > Perl                         61.3%
> > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > >
> > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fstack
> > overflow.com%2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-love
> > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c342aabb95
> > ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=x
> > SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> >
> >
>

RE: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

["Ryan J. Salva" <rs...@microsoft.com>]

As I told some of my co-workers today:

If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is “% of developers who are developing with the language or tech but have not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly, it’s not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also doesn’t reflect their stated intent. NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually doubled since the same time last year. 

Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear on… I’m just not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.


Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager
Visual Studio Tools for Apache Cordova
rsalva@microsoft.com
425 706 5270 office
206 612 5079 mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! They 
> are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they think they like, 
> or think they will seem cooler if they liked.
>
>
+1

It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked about how people were so unhappy with WordPress.


>
> > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez 
> > <jc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > 2016 survey is out
> >
> > Most Dreaded technologies:
> >
> > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > WordPress              74.3%
> > Matlab                     72.8%
> > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > LAMP                      68.7%
> > Cordova                  66.9%
> > Salesforce               65.4%
> > Other                       61.5%
> > Perl                         61.3%
> > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > Objective-C             60.2%
> >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fstack
> overflow.com%2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-love
> d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c342aabb95
> ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=x
> SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <pu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! They are
> almost always wrong, and will tell you what they think they like, or think
> they will seem cooler if they liked.
>
>
+1

It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and that it passed
Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what would happen if we went on the
WordPress mailing list and talked about how people were so unhappy with
WordPress.


>
> > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez <jc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > 2016 survey is out
> >
> > Most Dreaded technologies:
> >
> > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > WordPress              74.3%
> > Matlab                     72.8%
> > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > LAMP                      68.7%
> > Cordova                  66.9%
> > Salesforce               65.4%
> > Other                       61.5%
> > Perl                         61.3%
> > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > Objective-C             60.2%
> >
> >
> https://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#technology-most-loved-dreaded-and-wanted
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>
>

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>]

Never trust people's answers when you ask them what they like! They are almost always wrong, and will tell you what they think they like, or think they will seem cooler if they liked. 



> On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 2016 survey is out
> 
> Most Dreaded technologies:
> 
> Visual Basic            79.5%
> WordPress              74.3%
> Matlab                     72.8%
> Sharepoint              72.1%
> CoffeeScript            71.0%
> LAMP                      68.7%
> Cordova                  66.9%
> Salesforce               65.4%
> Other                       61.5%
> Perl                         61.3%
> SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> Objective-C             60.2%
> 
> https://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#technology-most-loved-dreaded-and-wanted

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[julio cesar sanchez <jc...@gmail.com>]

2016 survey is out

Most Dreaded technologies:

Visual Basic            79.5%
WordPress              74.3%
Matlab                     72.8%
Sharepoint              72.1%
CoffeeScript            71.0%
LAMP                      68.7%
Cordova                  66.9%
Salesforce               65.4%
Other                       61.5%
Perl                         61.3%
SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
Objective-C             60.2%

https://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#technology-most-loved-dreaded-and-wanted

Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

["Ryan J. Salva" <rs...@microsoft.com>]

Tammo,

Sorry you won't be able to make it. We would have loved to have you here. For at least part of the meetup, we'll host an online meeting for others to join remotely. Maybe you can join that way? Stay tuned for details. 

rjs

Sent from a mobile device. 

> On Aug 29, 2015, at 6:58 AM, Tammo Schimanski <ta...@cordova.de> wrote:
> 
> Hey Tim and thanks for your reply!
> 
> I already looked for flights but i think it’s a bit too short now. Flights from here to america are at about 800€ ( approx. 900$) + a cheap Hotel and i’m over 1.000$ which is unfortunately to expensive for me. Being a member of this e-mail list now helps me a lot to understand whats happening in the background.
> 
> If there is a small summary from the face 2 face meeting, i would be happy to get that. 
> 
> Nice Weekend for you all!
> 
> Tammo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am [DATE] schrieb "Tim Barham" <[ADDRESS]>:
> 
>> Thanks for this info, Tammo - this is all great stuff, and it sounds like the German Cordova community owes you a lot! I have a couple of comments:
>> 
>> 1. In the Cordova community (or any Apache community), nobody should consider themselves a small person :). Individual contributions are what Apache projects are all about (or should be). While some of us might have https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c4f314fdcd9cf4028207008d2b079de75%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1fXDJGl53w%2fiT8BiTLN1NeTA6UVbKljY3KsrWEOrPLY%3d or https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=intel.com&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c4f314fdcd9cf4028207008d2b079de75%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=j6mrQnVDUAEG71wtBh7aXc8JkuDeFqucwH2HPj0uLAA%3d or https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=adobe.com&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c4f314fdcd9cf4028207008d2b079de75%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=Oq12Zq%2bbpIgcEqaLbyjkEpfT9GFfTbPK7LIU1oHSxpY%3d email addresses, in the long run our contributions are no more important than anybody else's (we just have the good fortune of doing it for our day job :) ). 
>> 
>> 2. I know this was already mentioned by Julio, but it seems to me you would definitely be welcome at the face 2 face meeting if you felt it might be of benefit. It sounds to me like it would be a great opportunity if you could make it.
>> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tammo Schimanski [mailto:tammo.schimanski@cordova.de] 
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 8:17 PM
>> To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>> 
>> Hello to all of you from Germany,
>> i never wrote an e-mail to this list before but i want to tell you something about the situation over here.
>> 
>> I started developing applications with Cordova two years ago. It wasn’t easy to understand how Cordova works and how it has to be used. The docs didn’t help me enough so that i had to spend many hours in watching video tutorials on youtube and read many articles about the cordova workflow.
>> 
>> After i developed applications for over a year, i decided to found a german community which helps users who feel like i felt a year ago. At the End of 2014 i wrote e-mails to apache, registered domains and invested many hours in research and writing tutorials, blog articles and so on. Down to the present day the main Tutorials (iOS & Android) were viewed over 40.000 times. We have about 800 visits a day and are helping all people with their questions inside the board. Stackoverflow is also a great way to help people but not all german developers are able to ask a question in english (although you might thought that they are).
>> 
>> My target ever was to help people who are sitting in front of their computers and thinking „hey… why aren’t you working cordova“ or „why doesn’t it work like expected“? In spring 2015 my colleague and i decided to make all a bit more professional. We weren’t satisfied by the website because all was a bit heavy to find (Tutorials etc.) and it was not state of the art. Again: E-Mails to apache, registered a new domain and now we’re starting a big project under https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cordova.de&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=DWV2Gp%2btg2ekG6MvC1Ra9IMfFh3ceDWQUwjrRFAjaXM%3d (first look for you: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cordova.de%2fdev&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=AX4broDgZmgkyx6ljiVci1OTd%2fMRkZXM7KqK3ECA%2bzc%3d). I had to rewrite all tutorials, because its still our aim to make it understandable and clear for everyone! Till now we spent already over 250 hours together for the new project - but it is no problem: We love cordova! The Project will start at the end of September this year. Cordova is a possibility for companys creating a new branch. Every websitedeveloper is able to develop applications with Cordova - but not every Developer knows this. We want to spread cordova to every developer inside Germany!
>> 
>> So yes, why am i writing you this all? I think, in comparison to you i’m a small person. If i see all the people here getting e-mails to @https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=TkAyBoWRDD87phXTuwk5Ut4kRD1pf9yEqaKc0OoZ2Rs%3d, @https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=intel.com&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3ZP1F9eBjoU68%2bRDamnegwZ3kszlp%2baOveRcsDlyIVI%3d and so on…yes, i’m a small person. I just want to let you know, that if we can do anything from the other side of the big pond: Please let us know - we’re here, waiting for your instructions :-). 
>> 
>> I don’t know if this „Cordova face to face meeting“ is open for all but my colleague and i thought about coming to that meeting. Only because we’re interested into getting a deeper look into things and because we both want to get better and better. The better we get, the better we can help the users in understanding cordova. 
>> 
>> Belonging to the topic, Stackoverflow, frustration etc. - i understand Jesse Monroy. A big problem is that in many cases you just can post links „look here“ „read this“ etc. and if you give a detailed answer, you’ll never hear something again from that user like „worked for me“ or „no this doesn’t work“. Thats why we also created a „first steps in cordova“ guide on our new website in which all mistakes which can be done are explained.
>> 
>> Okay so… at least, sorry if something is unclear or understandable. I hope that it was at least a little bit interesting for you to get some feedback from Germany.
>> 
>> Greetings from
>> Tammo Schimanski
>> 
>> 
>> E-Mail:        tammo.schimanski@cordova.de
>> Phone / Whatsapp:    + 49 162 40 98 169 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:
>> 
>>> I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things 
>>> recently that worried me
>>> 
>>> First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fgroups
>>> .google.com%2fforum%2f%23!topic%2fphonegap%2fD7ydf_hNq-w&data=01%7c01%7
>>> cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c
>>> 72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Oi55qjHPNIa93Qwhn%2fglWTziW
>>> 1vY8ZcKxp8M3JHRZ4%3d
>>> 
>>> Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow 
>>> (from 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fstackov
>>> erflow.com%2ftags%2fcordova%2ftopusers&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mg
>>> d.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91
>>> ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ePFNX11aAOUF%2frRpMUGvDlMuuVNxbzVoqRb07hTzGHM%
>>> 3d)
>>> 
>>> cordova Questions
>>> 259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
>>> 1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
>>> 37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of 
>>> questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not 
>>> sure if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Tammo Schimanski <ta...@cordova.de>]

Hey Tim and thanks for your reply!

I already looked for flights but i think it’s a bit too short now. Flights from here to america are at about 800€ ( approx. 900$) + a cheap Hotel and i’m over 1.000$ which is unfortunately to expensive for me. Being a member of this e-mail list now helps me a lot to understand whats happening in the background.

If there is a small summary from the face 2 face meeting, i would be happy to get that. 

Nice Weekend for you all!

Tammo
   



Am [DATE] schrieb "Tim Barham" <[ADDRESS]>:

>Thanks for this info, Tammo - this is all great stuff, and it sounds like the German Cordova community owes you a lot! I have a couple of comments:
>
>1. In the Cordova community (or any Apache community), nobody should consider themselves a small person :). Individual contributions are what Apache projects are all about (or should be). While some of us might have microsoft.com or intel.com or adobe.com email addresses, in the long run our contributions are no more important than anybody else's (we just have the good fortune of doing it for our day job :) ). 
>
>2. I know this was already mentioned by Julio, but it seems to me you would definitely be welcome at the face 2 face meeting if you felt it might be of benefit. It sounds to me like it would be a great opportunity if you could make it.
>
>Tim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tammo Schimanski [mailto:tammo.schimanski@cordova.de] 
>Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 8:17 PM
>To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>
>Hello to all of you from Germany,
>i never wrote an e-mail to this list before but i want to tell you something about the situation over here.
>
>I started developing applications with Cordova two years ago. It wasn’t easy to understand how Cordova works and how it has to be used. The docs didn’t help me enough so that i had to spend many hours in watching video tutorials on youtube and read many articles about the cordova workflow.
>
>After i developed applications for over a year, i decided to found a german community which helps users who feel like i felt a year ago. At the End of 2014 i wrote e-mails to apache, registered domains and invested many hours in research and writing tutorials, blog articles and so on. Down to the present day the main Tutorials (iOS & Android) were viewed over 40.000 times. We have about 800 visits a day and are helping all people with their questions inside the board. Stackoverflow is also a great way to help people but not all german developers are able to ask a question in english (although you might thought that they are).
>
>My target ever was to help people who are sitting in front of their computers and thinking „hey… why aren’t you working cordova“ or „why doesn’t it work like expected“? In spring 2015 my colleague and i decided to make all a bit more professional. We weren’t satisfied by the website because all was a bit heavy to find (Tutorials etc.) and it was not state of the art. Again: E-Mails to apache, registered a new domain and now we’re starting a big project under https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cordova.de&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=DWV2Gp%2btg2ekG6MvC1Ra9IMfFh3ceDWQUwjrRFAjaXM%3d (first look for you: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cordova.de%2fdev&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=AX4broDgZmgkyx6ljiVci1OTd%2fMRkZXM7KqK3ECA%2bzc%3d). I had to rewrite all tutorials, because its still our aim to make it understandable and clear for everyone! Till now we spent already over 250 hours together for the new project - but it is no problem: We love cordova! The Project will start at the end of September this year. Cordova is a possibility for companys creating a new branch. Every websitedeveloper is able to develop applications with Cordova - but not every Developer knows this. We want to spread cordova to every developer inside Germany!
>
>So yes, why am i writing you this all? I think, in comparison to you i’m a small person. If i see all the people here getting e-mails to @https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=TkAyBoWRDD87phXTuwk5Ut4kRD1pf9yEqaKc0OoZ2Rs%3d, @https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=intel.com&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3ZP1F9eBjoU68%2bRDamnegwZ3kszlp%2baOveRcsDlyIVI%3d and so on…yes, i’m a small person. I just want to let you know, that if we can do anything from the other side of the big pond: Please let us know - we’re here, waiting for your instructions :-). 
>
>I don’t know if this „Cordova face to face meeting“ is open for all but my colleague and i thought about coming to that meeting. Only because we’re interested into getting a deeper look into things and because we both want to get better and better. The better we get, the better we can help the users in understanding cordova. 
>
>Belonging to the topic, Stackoverflow, frustration etc. - i understand Jesse Monroy. A big problem is that in many cases you just can post links „look here“ „read this“ etc. and if you give a detailed answer, you’ll never hear something again from that user like „worked for me“ or „no this doesn’t work“. Thats why we also created a „first steps in cordova“ guide on our new website in which all mistakes which can be done are explained.
>
>Okay so… at least, sorry if something is unclear or understandable. I hope that it was at least a little bit interesting for you to get some feedback from Germany.
>
>Greetings from
>Tammo Schimanski
>
>
>E-Mail: 		tammo.schimanski@cordova.de
>Phone / Whatsapp: 	+ 49 162 40 98 169 
>
>
>
>
>
>Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:
>
>>I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things 
>>recently that worried me
>>
>>First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
>>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fgroups
>>.google.com%2fforum%2f%23!topic%2fphonegap%2fD7ydf_hNq-w&data=01%7c01%7
>>cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c
>>72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Oi55qjHPNIa93Qwhn%2fglWTziW
>>1vY8ZcKxp8M3JHRZ4%3d
>>
>>Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow 
>>(from 
>>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fstackov
>>erflow.com%2ftags%2fcordova%2ftopusers&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mg
>>d.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91
>>ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ePFNX11aAOUF%2frRpMUGvDlMuuVNxbzVoqRb07hTzGHM%
>>3d)
>>
>>cordova Questions
>>259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
>>1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
>>37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered
>>
>>
>>I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of 
>>questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not 
>>sure if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org


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RE: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Tim Barham <Ti...@microsoft.com>]

Thanks for this info, Tammo - this is all great stuff, and it sounds like the German Cordova community owes you a lot! I have a couple of comments:

1. In the Cordova community (or any Apache community), nobody should consider themselves a small person :). Individual contributions are what Apache projects are all about (or should be). While some of us might have microsoft.com or intel.com or adobe.com email addresses, in the long run our contributions are no more important than anybody else's (we just have the good fortune of doing it for our day job :) ). 

2. I know this was already mentioned by Julio, but it seems to me you would definitely be welcome at the face 2 face meeting if you felt it might be of benefit. It sounds to me like it would be a great opportunity if you could make it.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Tammo Schimanski [mailto:tammo.schimanski@cordova.de] 
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 8:17 PM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

Hello to all of you from Germany,
i never wrote an e-mail to this list before but i want to tell you something about the situation over here.

I started developing applications with Cordova two years ago. It wasn’t easy to understand how Cordova works and how it has to be used. The docs didn’t help me enough so that i had to spend many hours in watching video tutorials on youtube and read many articles about the cordova workflow.

After i developed applications for over a year, i decided to found a german community which helps users who feel like i felt a year ago. At the End of 2014 i wrote e-mails to apache, registered domains and invested many hours in research and writing tutorials, blog articles and so on. Down to the present day the main Tutorials (iOS & Android) were viewed over 40.000 times. We have about 800 visits a day and are helping all people with their questions inside the board. Stackoverflow is also a great way to help people but not all german developers are able to ask a question in english (although you might thought that they are).

My target ever was to help people who are sitting in front of their computers and thinking „hey… why aren’t you working cordova“ or „why doesn’t it work like expected“? In spring 2015 my colleague and i decided to make all a bit more professional. We weren’t satisfied by the website because all was a bit heavy to find (Tutorials etc.) and it was not state of the art. Again: E-Mails to apache, registered a new domain and now we’re starting a big project under https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cordova.de&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=DWV2Gp%2btg2ekG6MvC1Ra9IMfFh3ceDWQUwjrRFAjaXM%3d (first look for you: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cordova.de%2fdev&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=AX4broDgZmgkyx6ljiVci1OTd%2fMRkZXM7KqK3ECA%2bzc%3d). I had to rewrite all tutorials, because its still our aim to make it understandable and clear for everyone! Till now we spent already over 250 hours together for the new project - but it is no problem: We love cordova! The Project will start at the end of September this year. Cordova is a possibility for companys creating a new branch. Every websitedeveloper is able to develop applications with Cordova - but not every Developer knows this. We want to spread cordova to every developer inside Germany!

So yes, why am i writing you this all? I think, in comparison to you i’m a small person. If i see all the people here getting e-mails to @https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=TkAyBoWRDD87phXTuwk5Ut4kRD1pf9yEqaKc0OoZ2Rs%3d, @https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=intel.com&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3ZP1F9eBjoU68%2bRDamnegwZ3kszlp%2baOveRcsDlyIVI%3d and so on…yes, i’m a small person. I just want to let you know, that if we can do anything from the other side of the big pond: Please let us know - we’re here, waiting for your instructions :-). 

I don’t know if this „Cordova face to face meeting“ is open for all but my colleague and i thought about coming to that meeting. Only because we’re interested into getting a deeper look into things and because we both want to get better and better. The better we get, the better we can help the users in understanding cordova. 

Belonging to the topic, Stackoverflow, frustration etc. - i understand Jesse Monroy. A big problem is that in many cases you just can post links „look here“ „read this“ etc. and if you give a detailed answer, you’ll never hear something again from that user like „worked for me“ or „no this doesn’t work“. Thats why we also created a „first steps in cordova“ guide on our new website in which all mistakes which can be done are explained.

Okay so… at least, sorry if something is unclear or understandable. I hope that it was at least a little bit interesting for you to get some feedback from Germany.

Greetings from
Tammo Schimanski


E-Mail: 		tammo.schimanski@cordova.de
Phone / Whatsapp: 	+ 49 162 40 98 169 





Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:

>I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things 
>recently that worried me
>
>First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fgroups
>.google.com%2fforum%2f%23!topic%2fphonegap%2fD7ydf_hNq-w&data=01%7c01%7
>cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c
>72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Oi55qjHPNIa93Qwhn%2fglWTziW
>1vY8ZcKxp8M3JHRZ4%3d
>
>Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow 
>(from 
>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fstackov
>erflow.com%2ftags%2fcordova%2ftopusers&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mg
>d.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91
>ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ePFNX11aAOUF%2frRpMUGvDlMuuVNxbzVoqRb07hTzGHM%
>3d)
>
>cordova Questions
>259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
>1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
>37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered
>
>
>I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of 
>questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not 
>sure if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?

[Tammo Schimanski <ta...@cordova.de>]

Hello to all of you from Germany,
i never wrote an e-mail to this list before but i want to tell you something about the situation over here.

I started developing applications with Cordova two years ago. It wasn’t easy to understand how Cordova works and how it has to be used. The docs didn’t help me enough so that i had to spend many hours in watching video tutorials on youtube and read many articles about the cordova workflow.

After i developed applications for over a year, i decided to found a german community which helps users who feel like i felt a year ago. At the End of 2014 i wrote e-mails to apache, registered domains and invested many hours in research and writing tutorials, blog articles and so on. Down to the present day the main Tutorials (iOS & Android) were viewed over 40.000 times. We have about 800 visits a day and are helping all people with their questions inside the board. Stackoverflow is also a great way to help people but not all german developers are able to ask a question in english (although you might thought that they are).

My target ever was to help people who are sitting in front of their computers and thinking „hey… why aren’t you working cordova“ or „why doesn’t it work like expected“? In spring 2015 my colleague and i decided to make all a bit more professional. We weren’t satisfied by the website because all was a bit heavy to find (Tutorials etc.) and it was not state of the art. Again: E-Mails to apache, registered a new domain and now we’re starting a big project under www.cordova.de (first look for you: www.cordova.de/dev). I had to rewrite all tutorials, because its still our aim to make it understandable and clear for everyone! Till now we spent already over 250 hours together for the new project - but it is no problem: We love cordova! The Project will start at the end of September this year. Cordova is a possibility for companys creating a new branch. Every websitedeveloper is able to develop applications with Cordova - but not every Developer knows this. We want to spread cordova to every developer inside Germany!

So yes, why am i writing you this all? I think, in comparison to you i’m a small person. If i see all the people here getting e-mails to @microsoft.com, @intel.com and so on…yes, i’m a small person. I just want to let you know, that if we can do anything from the other side of the big pond: Please let us know - we’re here, waiting for your instructions :-). 

I don’t know if this „Cordova face to face meeting“ is open for all but my colleague and i thought about coming to that meeting. Only because we’re interested into getting a deeper look into things and because we both want to get better and better. The better we get, the better we can help the users in understanding cordova. 

Belonging to the topic, Stackoverflow, frustration etc. - i understand Jesse Monroy. A big problem is that in many cases you just can post links „look here“ „read this“ etc. and if you give a detailed answer, you’ll never hear something again from that user like „worked for me“ or „no this doesn’t work“. Thats why we also created a „first steps in cordova“ guide on our new website in which all mistakes which can be done are explained.

Okay so… at least, sorry if something is unclear or understandable. I hope that it was at least a little bit interesting for you to get some feedback from Germany.

Greetings from
Tammo Schimanski


E-Mail: 		tammo.schimanski@cordova.de
Phone / Whatsapp: 	+ 49 162 40 98 169 





Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:

>I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things recently
>that worried me
>
>First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/phonegap/D7ydf_hNq-w
>
>Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow
>(from http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers)
>
>cordova Questions
>259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
>1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
>37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered
>
>
>I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of
>questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not sure
>if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)


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