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Posted to java-dev@axis.apache.org by jayachandra <ja...@gmail.com> on 2005/08/19 07:14:23 UTC
Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
Here is my +1
Jaya
On 8/19/05, Shahi, Ashutosh <As...@ca.com> wrote:
> +1. Welcome Dennis.
>
> Ashutosh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:dms@sosnoski.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:36 AM
> To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re:
> [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
>
> Yes, dims asked me ahead of time and I said I was definitely interested.
>
> Of course, that was before he -1'ed me using "dms" as my apache id...
>
> - Dennis
>
> Dennis M. Sosnoski
> Enterprise Java, XML, and Web Services
> Training and Consulting
> http://www.sosnoski.com
> Redmond, WA 425.885.7197
>
>
>
> Aleksander Slominski wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > if Dennis is interested then it would be great addition to Axis2 team!
> >
> > alek
> >
> > chathura@opensource.lk wrote:
> >
> >> here is my +1
> >> Chathura
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> +1,
> >>> welcome Dennis :-)
> >>>
> >>> - Ruchith
> >>>
> >>> On 8/19/05, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Team,
> >>>> Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
> >>>> with open arms to Axis2.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks,
> >>>> dims
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of
> >>>>> better
> >>>>> tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
> >>>>> start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
> >>>>> versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get
> this
> >>>>> thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2
> list
> >>>>> for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails
> on
> >>>>> this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware
> of
> >>>>> the discussion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models
> to
> >>>>> (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot
> work
> >>>>> with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing
> classes
> >>>>> using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> very
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to
> developing
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> web
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> services, since the users then have little or no control over the
> >>>>> schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC
> 1.0-style
> >>>>> doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to
> work
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> with
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be
> regenerated
> >>>>> every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
> >>>>> writing a translation layer into their applications to take the
> data
> >>>>> from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures
> actually
> >>>>> used by their main application code.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> between
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework.
> >>>>> JAXB
> >>>>> 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the
> email
> >>>>> exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for
> working
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> with
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics
> and
> >>>>> refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
> >>>>> everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost
>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything
> (though
> >>>>> there is a tool which will generate a default binding
> automatically,
> >>>>> with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
> >>>>> providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> JiBX
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and
> allowing
> >>>>> overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX
> binding.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the
> current
> >>>>> schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every
> >>>>> step
> >>>>> of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> change
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be
> >>>>> able to
> >>>>> go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> automatically
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches).
> I've
> >>>>> been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving
> it
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> this direction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the
> >>>>> possibility of
> >>>>> building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with
> different
> >>>>> frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
> >>>>> general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
> >>>>> integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would
> leave
> >>>>> the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
> >>>>> instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes,
> and
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form
> that
> >>>>> takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB,
> >>>>> etc.).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and
> start
> >>>>> putting this together? ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Dennis
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service
> >>>> Platform
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Ruchith
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
--
-- Jaya
Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer
Posted by Deepal Jayasinghe <de...@opensource.lk>.
+1 from mine too
Thanks,
Deepal
................................................................
~Future is Open~
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajith Ranabahu" <aj...@gmail.com>
To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer
> Here is my late +1 :) Glad to have you aboard
>
>
>
Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer
Posted by Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com>.
Here is my late +1 :) Glad to have you aboard
Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
Posted by Srinath Perera <he...@gmail.com>.
Here is my +1
Welcome abroad Dennis
Srinath
On 8/19/05, Thilina Gunarathne <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1. Welcome Dennis :)
>
> ~Thilina
>
>
> On 8/19/05, jayachandra <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Here is my +1
> >
> > Jaya
> >
> > On 8/19/05, Shahi, Ashutosh <Ashutosh.Shahi@ca.com > wrote:
> > > +1. Welcome Dennis.
> > >
> > > Ashutosh
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:dms@sosnoski.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:36 AM
> > > To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re:
> > > [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
> > >
> > > Yes, dims asked me ahead of time and I said I was definitely interested.
> > >
> > > Of course, that was before he -1'ed me using "dms" as my apache id...
> > >
> > > - Dennis
> > >
> > > Dennis M. Sosnoski
> > > Enterprise Java, XML, and Web Services
> > > Training and Consulting
> > > http://www.sosnoski.com
> > > Redmond, WA 425.885.7197
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Aleksander Slominski wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > > if Dennis is interested then it would be great addition to Axis2 team!
> > > >
> > > > alek
> > > >
> > > > chathura@opensource.lk wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> here is my +1
> > > >> Chathura
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> +1,
> > > >>> welcome Dennis :-)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> - Ruchith
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On 8/19/05, Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Team,
> > > >>>> Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
> > > >>>> with open arms to Axis2.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> thanks,
> > > >>>> dims
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of
> > > >>>>> better
> > > >>>>> tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
> > > >>>>> start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
> > > >>>>> versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get
> > > this
> > > >>>>> thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2
> > > list
> > > >>>>> for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails
> > > on
> > > >>>>> this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware
> > > of
> > > >>>>> the discussion.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models
> > > to
> > > >>>>> (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot
> > > work
> > > >>>>> with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing
> > > classes
> > > >>>>> using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> very
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to
> > > developing
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> web
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> services, since the users then have little or no control over the
> > > >>>>> schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC
> > > 1.0-style
> > > >>>>> doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to
> > > work
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> with
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be
> > > regenerated
> > > >>>>> every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
> > > >>>>> writing a translation layer into their applications to take the
> > > data
> > > >>>>> from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures
> > > actually
> > > >>>>> used by their main application code.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> between
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework.
> > > >>>>> JAXB
> > > >>>>> 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the
> > > email
> > > >>>>> exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for
> > > working
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> with
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics
> > > and
> > > >>>>> refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
> > > >>>>> everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost
> > >
> > > >>>>> the
> > > >>>>> opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything
> > > (though
> > > >>>>> there is a tool which will generate a default binding
> > > automatically,
> > > >>>>> with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
> > > >>>>> providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> JiBX
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and
> > > allowing
> > > >>>>> overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX
> > > binding.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the
> > > current
> > > >>>>> schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every
> > > >>>>> step
> > > >>>>> of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> change
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be
> > > >>>>> able to
> > > >>>>> go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> automatically
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and
> > > >>>>> have
> > > >>>>> the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches).
> > > I've
> > > >>>>> been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving
> > > it
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> in
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> this direction.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the
> > > >>>>> possibility of
> > > >>>>> building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with
> > > different
> > > >>>>> frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
> > > >>>>> general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
> > > >>>>> integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would
> > > leave
> > > >>>>> the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
> > > >>>>> instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes,
> > > and
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> to
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form
> > > that
> > > >>>>> takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB,
> > > >>>>> etc.).
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and
> > > start
> > > >>>>> putting this together? ;-)
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> - Dennis
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service
> > > >>>> Platform
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Ruchith
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -- Jaya
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "May the SourcE be with u"
> http://www.bloglines.com/blog/thilina
> http://webservices.apache.org/~thilina/
Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
Posted by Thilina Gunarathne <cs...@gmail.com>.
+1. Welcome Dennis :)
~Thilina
On 8/19/05, jayachandra <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here is my +1
>
> Jaya
>
> On 8/19/05, Shahi, Ashutosh <As...@ca.com> wrote:
> > +1. Welcome Dennis.
> >
> > Ashutosh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:dms@sosnoski.com]
> > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:36 AM
> > To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re:
> > [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
> >
> > Yes, dims asked me ahead of time and I said I was definitely interested.
> >
> > Of course, that was before he -1'ed me using "dms" as my apache id...
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
> > Dennis M. Sosnoski
> > Enterprise Java, XML, and Web Services
> > Training and Consulting
> > http://www.sosnoski.com
> > Redmond, WA 425.885.7197
> >
> >
> >
> > Aleksander Slominski wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > if Dennis is interested then it would be great addition to Axis2 team!
> > >
> > > alek
> > >
> > > chathura@opensource.lk wrote:
> > >
> > >> here is my +1
> > >> Chathura
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> +1,
> > >>> welcome Dennis :-)
> > >>>
> > >>> - Ruchith
> > >>>
> > >>> On 8/19/05, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Team,
> > >>>> Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
> > >>>> with open arms to Axis2.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> thanks,
> > >>>> dims
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of
> > >>>>> better
> > >>>>> tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
> > >>>>> start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
> > >>>>> versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get
> > this
> > >>>>> thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2
> > list
> > >>>>> for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails
> > on
> > >>>>> this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware
> > of
> > >>>>> the discussion.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models
> > to
> > >>>>> (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot
> > work
> > >>>>> with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing
> > classes
> > >>>>> using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> very
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to
> > developing
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> web
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> services, since the users then have little or no control over the
> > >>>>> schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC
> > 1.0-style
> > >>>>> doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to
> > work
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> with
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be
> > regenerated
> > >>>>> every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
> > >>>>> writing a translation layer into their applications to take the
> > data
> > >>>>> from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures
> > actually
> > >>>>> used by their main application code.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> between
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework.
> > >>>>> JAXB
> > >>>>> 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the
> > email
> > >>>>> exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for
> > working
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> with
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics
> > and
> > >>>>> refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
> > >>>>> everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost
> >
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>> opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything
> > (though
> > >>>>> there is a tool which will generate a default binding
> > automatically,
> > >>>>> with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
> > >>>>> providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> JiBX
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and
> > allowing
> > >>>>> overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX
> > binding.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the
> > current
> > >>>>> schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every
> > >>>>> step
> > >>>>> of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> change
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be
> > >>>>> able to
> > >>>>> go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> automatically
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and
> > >>>>> have
> > >>>>> the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches).
> > I've
> > >>>>> been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving
> > it
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> in
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> this direction.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the
> > >>>>> possibility of
> > >>>>> building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with
> > different
> > >>>>> frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
> > >>>>> general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
> > >>>>> integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would
> > leave
> > >>>>> the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
> > >>>>> instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes,
> > and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form
> > that
> > >>>>> takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB,
> > >>>>> etc.).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and
> > start
> > >>>>> putting this together? ;-)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> - Dennis
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service
> > >>>> Platform
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Ruchith
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> -- Jaya
>
--
"May the SourcE be with u"
http://www.bloglines.com/blog/thilina
http://webservices.apache.org/~thilina/