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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> on 2008/12/10 14:03:46 UTC
Re: Any legal issues with Google Analytics?
Hi,
Picking this up again...
I'm assuming lazy consensus on the idea that we can consider our dev@
lists as "internal use" in the GA ToS. I'll be setting up GA email
reports targeted to dev@jackrabbit.apache.org.
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Marshall Schor <ms...@schor.com> wrote:
> I believe that information collected is being sent to Google (presuming
> you're using Google analytics). As such, I don't think we should state
> we don't "allow" third parties to ... associate data with ... , because
> we don't control what Google does. Perhaps we should somehow refer to
> Google Analytics statements about this, in case they change what they
> say, from time to time.
Here's an updated draft that should cover this:
<draft>
Information about your use of this website is collected using server
access logs and a tracking cookie. The collected information consists
of the following:
1. The IP address from which you access the website;
2. The type of browser and operating system you use to access our site;
3. The date and time you access our site;
4. The pages you visit; and
5. The addresses of pages from where you followed a link to our site.
Part of this information is gathered using a tracking cookie set by
the Google Analytics service [1] and handled by Google as described in
their privacy policy [2]. See your browser documentation for
instructions on how to disable the cookie if you prefer not to share
this data with Google.
We use the gathered information to help us make our site more useful
to visitors and to better understand how and when our site is used. We
do not track or collect personally identifiable information or
associate gathered data with any personally identifying information
from other sources.
By using this website, you consent to the collection of this data in
the manner and for the purpose described above.
[1] http://www.google.com/analytics/
[2] http://www.google.com/privacy.html
</draft>
Comments?
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: Any legal issues with Google Analytics?
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's an updated draft [...]
I've posted this version now at the Jackrabbit web site, see
http://jackrabbit.apache.org/privacy-policy.html
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: Any legal issues with Google Analytics?
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:20 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr.
<wr...@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
> William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>> That isn't the terms of the license. The terms are that the ASF will
>> indemnify Google when they our users.
>
> s/our/cause harm to/
>
> E.g. with exception (maybe) of willful misconduct, we assume all of Google's
> liabilities with respect to using the service.
Ah, I see.
Is this something we need to worry about? What's the worst that could happen?
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: Any legal issues with Google Analytics?
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Jukka Zitting wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Marshall Schor <ms...@schor.com> wrote:
>>> Is this an obligation the ASF would agree to?
>> I don't see much problem with that (but IANAL). I guess Google would
>> have a good claim for damages even without this ToS if we did
>> something that ended up hurting them legally.
>
> That isn't the terms of the license. The terms are that the ASF will
> indemnify Google when they our users.
s/our/cause harm to/
E.g. with exception (maybe) of willful misconduct, we assume all of Google's
liabilities with respect to using the service.
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Re: Any legal issues with Google Analytics?
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Jukka Zitting wrote:
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Marshall Schor <ms...@schor.com> wrote:
>> Is this an obligation the ASF would agree to?
>
> I don't see much problem with that (but IANAL). I guess Google would
> have a good claim for damages even without this ToS if we did
> something that ended up hurting them legally.
That isn't the terms of the license. The terms are that the ASF will
indemnify Google when they our users.
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Re: Any legal issues with Google Analytics?
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Marshall Schor <ms...@schor.com> wrote:
> Is this an obligation the ASF would agree to?
I don't see much problem with that (but IANAL). I guess Google would
have a good claim for damages even without this ToS if we did
something that ended up hurting them legally.
> If not, is it the individual who signs up for the license [...]
I don't personally feel too concerned to use my own Google account,
but this does raise the issue of whether we should have some official
"Apache" account at Google for setting up services like Analytics.
> Unless You notify Google otherwise in writing, You hereby grant to
> Google and its wholly owned subsidiaries a limited license to use Your
> trade names, trademarks, service marks, logos, domain names and other
> distinctive brand features ("Brand Features") in presentations,
> marketing materials, customer lists, and financial reports.
They must have changed the ToS as I can't find that in the current version.
I wonder if they have some mechanism for notifying people when the
terms change...
> Should Apache have an initial practice of "notifying Google in writing"
> to not grant use of Apache's Brand Features?
I guess that's something for the PRC to answer, assuming those terms
still apply.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: Any legal issues with Google Analytics?
Posted by Marshall Schor <ms...@schor.com>.
When we looked at the analytics license a few months ago, it said
>>>You agree to indemnify, hold harmless and defend Google and its
wholly owned subsidiaries, at Your expense, any and all third-party
claims, actions, proceedings, and suits brought against Google or any of
its officers, directors, employees, agents or affiliates, and all
related liabilities, damages, settlements, penalties, fines, costs or
expenses (including, without limitation, reasonable attorneys' fees and
other litigation expenses) incurred by Google or any of its officers,
directors, employees, agents or affiliates, arising out of or relating
to (i) Your breach of any term or condition of this Agreement, (ii) Your
use of the Service, (iii) Your violations of applicable laws, rules or
regulations in connection with the Service, or (iv) Your Brand Features.
In such a case, Google will provide You with written notice of such
claim, suit or action. You shall cooperate as fully as reasonably
required in the defense of any claim. Google reserves the right, at its
own expense, to assume the exclusive defense and control of any matter
subject to indemnification by You.
Is this an obligation the ASF would agree to? If not, is it the
individual who signs up for the license who would have to potentially
defend Google if Google was sued on some issue "arising out of or
relating to (ii) Your use of the Service, or (iv) Your Brand Features"?
I have to confess I don't understand what the real obligations would be
here, and because I don't understand it, I wonder about it.
It also said:
Unless You notify Google otherwise in writing, You hereby grant to
Google and its wholly owned subsidiaries a limited license to use Your
trade names, trademarks, service marks, logos, domain names and other
distinctive brand features ("Brand Features") in presentations,
marketing materials, customer lists, and financial reports.
Should Apache have an initial practice of "notifying Google in writing"
to not grant use of Apache's Brand Features?
Although I'm bringing up these issues, it is in the hope we can find a
way to get comfortably beyond them.
-Marshall Schor
Jukka Zitting wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Picking this up again...
>
> I'm assuming lazy consensus on the idea that we can consider our dev@
> lists as "internal use" in the GA ToS. I'll be setting up GA email
> reports targeted to dev@jackrabbit.apache.org.
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Marshall Schor <ms...@schor.com> wrote:
>
>> I believe that information collected is being sent to Google (presuming
>> you're using Google analytics). As such, I don't think we should state
>> we don't "allow" third parties to ... associate data with ... , because
>> we don't control what Google does. Perhaps we should somehow refer to
>> Google Analytics statements about this, in case they change what they
>> say, from time to time.
>>
>
> Here's an updated draft that should cover this:
>
> <draft>
> Information about your use of this website is collected using server
> access logs and a tracking cookie. The collected information consists
> of the following:
>
> 1. The IP address from which you access the website;
> 2. The type of browser and operating system you use to access our site;
> 3. The date and time you access our site;
> 4. The pages you visit; and
> 5. The addresses of pages from where you followed a link to our site.
>
> Part of this information is gathered using a tracking cookie set by
> the Google Analytics service [1] and handled by Google as described in
> their privacy policy [2]. See your browser documentation for
> instructions on how to disable the cookie if you prefer not to share
> this data with Google.
>
> We use the gathered information to help us make our site more useful
> to visitors and to better understand how and when our site is used. We
> do not track or collect personally identifiable information or
> associate gathered data with any personally identifying information
> from other sources.
>
> By using this website, you consent to the collection of this data in
> the manner and for the purpose described above.
>
> [1] http://www.google.com/analytics/
> [2] http://www.google.com/privacy.html
> </draft>
>
> Comments?
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
>
>
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Re: Any legal issues with Google Analytics?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Jukka,
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...Comments?...
Seen from the angle of a website visitor, I find your proposed notice
clear and understandable. I'm +1 on it if people find it ok from a
legal point of view as well.
-Bertrand
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