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Posted to dev@hunter.apache.org by Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> on 2024/12/08 20:29:09 UTC
Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Hi all
I didn't yet receive powers to push the entire hunter repo into
https://github.com/apache/hunter
...and since there isn't any code or branches there, I also cannot create a
pull request just yet. But... I did spend this Sunday afternoon preparing a
branch that is rebased on top of what I expect to become the canonical
upstream:
https://github.com/nyrkio/hunter/tree/to-asf-upstream2
Apparently our fork is 6 commits ahead. I will submit separate PRs once
there is a repo in place to submit PRs against. But you can already take a
sneak peek from above.
The two most interesting ones should be:
- Add to_json() and from_json() serialization methods'
- Incremental Hunter: Since Datastax introduced an approach where we only
consider the w(indown length) closest points, it turns out that the next
logical step is an optimization: since the common case is that new test
results are appended to the end, we can limit the recompute to the 1-2
last windows at the tail end. Everything before that point is guaranteed to
not have changed, because the newly added test result is not inside the
window that is considered as input for the algorithm.
Other changes are fixes or an additional test/benchmark. Some are quite
interesting stlil. Especially I can tell with confidence that Piotr never
thought of using a p-value of 0.1 or higher :-) (You can look at the patch
yourself to find out.)
henrik
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com>.
If you used the Series and AnalyzedSeries classes the p-value fix should
not affect you because those classes use an AnalysisOptions object that has
is own defaults and I didn't change those. (Rather, my change aligns
default arguments later in the call stack with those set in
AnalysisOptions.)
But it's always good to test of course.
henrik
On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 1:05 AM Alexander Sorokoumov <
aleksandr.sorokoumov@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Henrik,
>
> Thank you for preparing these commits! I will test them on Kafka Streams
> benchmark results in the next couple of days. I am especially curious about
> the p-value fix.
>
> Best,
> Alex
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 12:30 PM Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > I didn't yet receive powers to push the entire hunter repo into
> > https://github.com/apache/hunter
> >
> > ...and since there isn't any code or branches there, I also cannot
> create a
> > pull request just yet. But... I did spend this Sunday afternoon
> preparing a
> > branch that is rebased on top of what I expect to become the canonical
> > upstream:
> >
> > https://github.com/nyrkio/hunter/tree/to-asf-upstream2
> >
> > Apparently our fork is 6 commits ahead. I will submit separate PRs once
> > there is a repo in place to submit PRs against. But you can already
> take a
> > sneak peek from above.
> >
> > The two most interesting ones should be:
> > - Add to_json() and from_json() serialization methods'
> > - Incremental Hunter: Since Datastax introduced an approach where we
> only
> > consider the w(indown length) closest points, it turns out that the next
> > logical step is an optimization: since the common case is that new test
> > results are appended to the end, we can limit the recompute to the 1-2
> > last windows at the tail end. Everything before that point is guaranteed
> to
> > not have changed, because the newly added test result is not inside the
> > window that is considered as input for the algorithm.
> >
> > Other changes are fixes or an additional test/benchmark. Some are quite
> > interesting stlil. Especially I can tell with confidence that Piotr never
> > thought of using a p-value of 0.1 or higher :-) (You can look at the
> patch
> > yourself to find out.)
> >
> > henrik
> >
>
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Alexander Sorokoumov <al...@gmail.com>.
Hi Henrik,
Thank you for preparing these commits! I will test them on Kafka Streams
benchmark results in the next couple of days. I am especially curious about
the p-value fix.
Best,
Alex
On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 12:30 PM Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I didn't yet receive powers to push the entire hunter repo into
> https://github.com/apache/hunter
>
> ...and since there isn't any code or branches there, I also cannot create a
> pull request just yet. But... I did spend this Sunday afternoon preparing a
> branch that is rebased on top of what I expect to become the canonical
> upstream:
>
> https://github.com/nyrkio/hunter/tree/to-asf-upstream2
>
> Apparently our fork is 6 commits ahead. I will submit separate PRs once
> there is a repo in place to submit PRs against. But you can already take a
> sneak peek from above.
>
> The two most interesting ones should be:
> - Add to_json() and from_json() serialization methods'
> - Incremental Hunter: Since Datastax introduced an approach where we only
> consider the w(indown length) closest points, it turns out that the next
> logical step is an optimization: since the common case is that new test
> results are appended to the end, we can limit the recompute to the 1-2
> last windows at the tail end. Everything before that point is guaranteed to
> not have changed, because the newly added test result is not inside the
> window that is considered as input for the algorithm.
>
> Other changes are fixes or an additional test/benchmark. Some are quite
> interesting stlil. Especially I can tell with confidence that Piotr never
> thought of using a p-value of 0.1 or higher :-) (You can look at the patch
> yourself to find out.)
>
> henrik
>
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com>.
Cool! I sent the PR. Feels good to merge a years worth of divergence :-)
On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 2:12 AM Alexander Sorokoumov <
aleksandr.sorokoumov@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Henrik,
>
> https://github.com/apache/hunter is online, so you can open a PR against
> master! FWIW I double-checked that your commits did not introduce any
> changes to Kafka Streams benchmark results.
>
> Best,
> Alex
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 6:30 PM Alexander Sorokoumov <
> aleksandr.sorokoumov@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Are we planning to complete the "initial clean up" outside of
> > apache/hunter or would we just push what we have and then continue
> > with the cleanup in apache/hunter? Both ways are acceptable.
> >
> > I'd rather get datastax-labs/hunter into apache/hunter, then
> > merge Nyrkiö's changes, then do the clean up to avoid rebase hell. Here
> is
> > the Jira issue for the clean up -
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HUNTER-2.
> >
> > Best,
> > Alex
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 11:27 AM Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Ah, now I see what Mick was saying. Cool stuff. Yeah it will be nice to
> >> keep old PRs and issues!
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 3:58 PM Sean McCarthy <
> >> sean.mccarthy.dev@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Apologies, I had linked the wrong ticket. Thanks Mick for sharing the
> >> > right issue.
> >> >
> >> > > On Dec 10, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 2:43 PM Mick Semb Wever <mc...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>> The Infra ticket is only about the name of the repo, not the
> >> contents.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The contents are getting moved. See INFRA-26353
> >> > >> This'll move issues and PRs over too, and put a redirect in place
> >> from
> >> > the
> >> > >> old url.
> >> > >> Let me know if this isn't wanted.
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > > All of that is good... What I meant is, I don't see the infra ticket
> >> > > mentioning the github.com/datastax-labs/hunter repo at all.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Alexander Sorokoumov <al...@gmail.com>.
Hey Henrik,
https://github.com/apache/hunter is online, so you can open a PR against
master! FWIW I double-checked that your commits did not introduce any
changes to Kafka Streams benchmark results.
Best,
Alex
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 6:30 PM Alexander Sorokoumov <
aleksandr.sorokoumov@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Are we planning to complete the "initial clean up" outside of
> apache/hunter or would we just push what we have and then continue
> with the cleanup in apache/hunter? Both ways are acceptable.
>
> I'd rather get datastax-labs/hunter into apache/hunter, then
> merge Nyrkiö's changes, then do the clean up to avoid rebase hell. Here is
> the Jira issue for the clean up -
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HUNTER-2.
>
> Best,
> Alex
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 11:27 AM Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
>
>> Ah, now I see what Mick was saying. Cool stuff. Yeah it will be nice to
>> keep old PRs and issues!
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 3:58 PM Sean McCarthy <
>> sean.mccarthy.dev@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Apologies, I had linked the wrong ticket. Thanks Mick for sharing the
>> > right issue.
>> >
>> > > On Dec 10, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 2:43 PM Mick Semb Wever <mc...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>>>
>> > >>> The Infra ticket is only about the name of the repo, not the
>> contents.
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> The contents are getting moved. See INFRA-26353
>> > >> This'll move issues and PRs over too, and put a redirect in place
>> from
>> > the
>> > >> old url.
>> > >> Let me know if this isn't wanted.
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > All of that is good... What I meant is, I don't see the infra ticket
>> > > mentioning the github.com/datastax-labs/hunter repo at all.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Alexander Sorokoumov <al...@gmail.com>.
> Are we planning to complete the "initial clean up" outside of
apache/hunter or would we just push what we have and then continue
with the cleanup in apache/hunter? Both ways are acceptable.
I'd rather get datastax-labs/hunter into apache/hunter, then merge Nyrkiö's
changes, then do the clean up to avoid rebase hell. Here is the Jira issue
for the clean up - https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HUNTER-2.
Best,
Alex
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 11:27 AM Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
> Ah, now I see what Mick was saying. Cool stuff. Yeah it will be nice to
> keep old PRs and issues!
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 3:58 PM Sean McCarthy <sean.mccarthy.dev@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Apologies, I had linked the wrong ticket. Thanks Mick for sharing the
> > right issue.
> >
> > > On Dec 10, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 2:43 PM Mick Semb Wever <mc...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >>>>
> > >>> The Infra ticket is only about the name of the repo, not the
> contents.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The contents are getting moved. See INFRA-26353
> > >> This'll move issues and PRs over too, and put a redirect in place from
> > the
> > >> old url.
> > >> Let me know if this isn't wanted.
> > >>
> > >
> > > All of that is good... What I meant is, I don't see the infra ticket
> > > mentioning the github.com/datastax-labs/hunter repo at all.
> >
> >
>
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com>.
Ah, now I see what Mick was saying. Cool stuff. Yeah it will be nice to
keep old PRs and issues!
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 3:58 PM Sean McCarthy <se...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Apologies, I had linked the wrong ticket. Thanks Mick for sharing the
> right issue.
>
> > On Dec 10, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 2:43 PM Mick Semb Wever <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >>>>
> >>> The Infra ticket is only about the name of the repo, not the contents.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> The contents are getting moved. See INFRA-26353
> >> This'll move issues and PRs over too, and put a redirect in place from
> the
> >> old url.
> >> Let me know if this isn't wanted.
> >>
> >
> > All of that is good... What I meant is, I don't see the infra ticket
> > mentioning the github.com/datastax-labs/hunter repo at all.
>
>
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Sean McCarthy <se...@gmail.com>.
Apologies, I had linked the wrong ticket. Thanks Mick for sharing the right issue.
> On Dec 10, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 2:43 PM Mick Semb Wever <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>> The Infra ticket is only about the name of the repo, not the contents.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The contents are getting moved. See INFRA-26353
>> This'll move issues and PRs over too, and put a redirect in place from the
>> old url.
>> Let me know if this isn't wanted.
>>
>
> All of that is good... What I meant is, I don't see the infra ticket
> mentioning the github.com/datastax-labs/hunter repo at all.
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com>.
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 2:43 PM Mick Semb Wever <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > The Infra ticket is only about the name of the repo, not the contents.
> >
>
>
> The contents are getting moved. See INFRA-26353
> This'll move issues and PRs over too, and put a redirect in place from the
> old url.
> Let me know if this isn't wanted.
>
All of that is good... What I meant is, I don't see the infra ticket
mentioning the github.com/datastax-labs/hunter repo at all.
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Mick Semb Wever <mc...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 at 22:42, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 5:24 PM Sean McCarthy <se...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I believe datastax-labs/hunter is being moved into apache/hunter by
> > ASF-infra, according to: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HUNTER-1
> <
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HUNTER-1>
> > Tracked in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-26336 <
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-26336> (though I can’t view
> > this issue).
> >
> >
> The Infra ticket is only about the name of the repo, not the contents.
>
The contents are getting moved. See INFRA-26353
This'll move issues and PRs over too, and put a redirect in place from the
old url.
Let me know if this isn't wanted.
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com>.
On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 5:24 PM Sean McCarthy <se...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I believe datastax-labs/hunter is being moved into apache/hunter by
> ASF-infra, according to: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HUNTER-1 <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HUNTER-1>
> Tracked in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-26336 <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-26336> (though I can’t view
> this issue).
>
>
The Infra ticket is only about the name of the repo, not the contents.
> If not, or maybe I've misunderstood, I’m happy to move the commit history
> into apache/hunter.
>
If you have the permissions to push to the empty repo, please do!
henrik
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Sean McCarthy <se...@gmail.com>.
I believe datastax-labs/hunter is being moved into apache/hunter by ASF-infra, according to: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HUNTER-1 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HUNTER-1>
Tracked in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-26336 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-26336> (though I can’t view this issue).
If not, or maybe I've misunderstood, I’m happy to move the commit history into apache/hunter.
Sean
> On Dec 9, 2024, at 6:14 AM, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
>
> I think we would like https://github.com/datastax-labs/hunter to be
> ceremoniously pushed as the main branch. Of course, my 6 commits are now
> rebased on top of it too, but they are more or less new to the rest of the
> community, so submitting them as separate PRs, or in any case as one single
> separate PR, would be more proper. And it's a good opportunity to practice
> reviews. We honestly don't expect hunter to be that busy in terms of
> commits. Those 6 represent half a year of progress.
>
> That said, there is an additional layer of functionality we have in Nyrkiö
> code that could be now (finally!) refactored down to hunter. But
> refactoring is work too, who knows when we get a moment to actually do it.
>
> henrik
>
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 8:46 AM Lari Hotari <lh...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> I could help push
>> https://github.com/nyrkio/hunter/tree/to-asf-upstream2 as the main
>> branch in https://github.com/apache/hunter repository if that's what
>> we'd want to have as the starting point.
>>
>> There's an "Initial Clean Up" step described here:
>> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/transitioning_asf.html#initial_clean_up
>> .
>> The Incubator guide states "We recommend that you start the initial
>> cleanup before you commit the code. You MUST complete it before
>> creating any releases."
>>
>> Are we planning to complete the "initial clean up" outside of
>> apache/hunter or would we just push what we have and then continue
>> with the cleanup in apache/hunter? Both ways are acceptable.
>>
>> -Lari
>>
>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 at 22:30, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I didn't yet receive powers to push the entire hunter repo into
>>> https://github.com/apache/hunter
>>>
>>> ...and since there isn't any code or branches there, I also cannot
>> create a
>>> pull request just yet. But... I did spend this Sunday afternoon
>> preparing a
>>> branch that is rebased on top of what I expect to become the canonical
>>> upstream:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/nyrkio/hunter/tree/to-asf-upstream2
>>>
>>> Apparently our fork is 6 commits ahead. I will submit separate PRs once
>>> there is a repo in place to submit PRs against. But you can already
>> take a
>>> sneak peek from above.
>>>
>>> The two most interesting ones should be:
>>> - Add to_json() and from_json() serialization methods'
>>> - Incremental Hunter: Since Datastax introduced an approach where we
>> only
>>> consider the w(indown length) closest points, it turns out that the next
>>> logical step is an optimization: since the common case is that new test
>>> results are appended to the end, we can limit the recompute to the 1-2
>>> last windows at the tail end. Everything before that point is guaranteed
>> to
>>> not have changed, because the newly added test result is not inside the
>>> window that is considered as input for the algorithm.
>>>
>>> Other changes are fixes or an additional test/benchmark. Some are quite
>>> interesting stlil. Especially I can tell with confidence that Piotr never
>>> thought of using a p-value of 0.1 or higher :-) (You can look at the
>> patch
>>> yourself to find out.)
>>>
>>> henrik
>>
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com>.
I think we would like https://github.com/datastax-labs/hunter to be
ceremoniously pushed as the main branch. Of course, my 6 commits are now
rebased on top of it too, but they are more or less new to the rest of the
community, so submitting them as separate PRs, or in any case as one single
separate PR, would be more proper. And it's a good opportunity to practice
reviews. We honestly don't expect hunter to be that busy in terms of
commits. Those 6 represent half a year of progress.
That said, there is an additional layer of functionality we have in Nyrkiö
code that could be now (finally!) refactored down to hunter. But
refactoring is work too, who knows when we get a moment to actually do it.
henrik
On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 8:46 AM Lari Hotari <lh...@apache.org> wrote:
> I could help push
> https://github.com/nyrkio/hunter/tree/to-asf-upstream2 as the main
> branch in https://github.com/apache/hunter repository if that's what
> we'd want to have as the starting point.
>
> There's an "Initial Clean Up" step described here:
> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/transitioning_asf.html#initial_clean_up
> .
> The Incubator guide states "We recommend that you start the initial
> cleanup before you commit the code. You MUST complete it before
> creating any releases."
>
> Are we planning to complete the "initial clean up" outside of
> apache/hunter or would we just push what we have and then continue
> with the cleanup in apache/hunter? Both ways are acceptable.
>
> -Lari
>
> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 at 22:30, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > I didn't yet receive powers to push the entire hunter repo into
> > https://github.com/apache/hunter
> >
> > ...and since there isn't any code or branches there, I also cannot
> create a
> > pull request just yet. But... I did spend this Sunday afternoon
> preparing a
> > branch that is rebased on top of what I expect to become the canonical
> > upstream:
> >
> > https://github.com/nyrkio/hunter/tree/to-asf-upstream2
> >
> > Apparently our fork is 6 commits ahead. I will submit separate PRs once
> > there is a repo in place to submit PRs against. But you can already
> take a
> > sneak peek from above.
> >
> > The two most interesting ones should be:
> > - Add to_json() and from_json() serialization methods'
> > - Incremental Hunter: Since Datastax introduced an approach where we
> only
> > consider the w(indown length) closest points, it turns out that the next
> > logical step is an optimization: since the common case is that new test
> > results are appended to the end, we can limit the recompute to the 1-2
> > last windows at the tail end. Everything before that point is guaranteed
> to
> > not have changed, because the newly added test result is not inside the
> > window that is considered as input for the algorithm.
> >
> > Other changes are fixes or an additional test/benchmark. Some are quite
> > interesting stlil. Especially I can tell with confidence that Piotr never
> > thought of using a p-value of 0.1 or higher :-) (You can look at the
> patch
> > yourself to find out.)
> >
> > henrik
>
Re: Upstreaming 6 commits from Nyrkiö fork
Posted by Lari Hotari <lh...@apache.org>.
I could help push
https://github.com/nyrkio/hunter/tree/to-asf-upstream2 as the main
branch in https://github.com/apache/hunter repository if that's what
we'd want to have as the starting point.
There's an "Initial Clean Up" step described here:
https://incubator.apache.org/guides/transitioning_asf.html#initial_clean_up
.
The Incubator guide states "We recommend that you start the initial
cleanup before you commit the code. You MUST complete it before
creating any releases."
Are we planning to complete the "initial clean up" outside of
apache/hunter or would we just push what we have and then continue
with the cleanup in apache/hunter? Both ways are acceptable.
-Lari
On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 at 22:30, Henrik Ingo <he...@nyrkio.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I didn't yet receive powers to push the entire hunter repo into
> https://github.com/apache/hunter
>
> ...and since there isn't any code or branches there, I also cannot create a
> pull request just yet. But... I did spend this Sunday afternoon preparing a
> branch that is rebased on top of what I expect to become the canonical
> upstream:
>
> https://github.com/nyrkio/hunter/tree/to-asf-upstream2
>
> Apparently our fork is 6 commits ahead. I will submit separate PRs once
> there is a repo in place to submit PRs against. But you can already take a
> sneak peek from above.
>
> The two most interesting ones should be:
> - Add to_json() and from_json() serialization methods'
> - Incremental Hunter: Since Datastax introduced an approach where we only
> consider the w(indown length) closest points, it turns out that the next
> logical step is an optimization: since the common case is that new test
> results are appended to the end, we can limit the recompute to the 1-2
> last windows at the tail end. Everything before that point is guaranteed to
> not have changed, because the newly added test result is not inside the
> window that is considered as input for the algorithm.
>
> Other changes are fixes or an additional test/benchmark. Some are quite
> interesting stlil. Especially I can tell with confidence that Piotr never
> thought of using a p-value of 0.1 or higher :-) (You can look at the patch
> yourself to find out.)
>
> henrik