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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com> on 2018/06/26 08:12:07 UTC
[DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@ into the
dev@ mailing list
Hi All,
In this earlier thread I put forward proposal for a timeline for releases,
to encorporate NetCat testing and voting.
Day 0: dev mailing list agrees to initiate a release, - Code Branched into
specific release Branch & Jenkins updated
Day 0: NetCat Announced + Week of signups
Day 0-6: New and Noteworthy page created/updated (Useful for NetCat process
to see what new features they need to update their test specs with) +
Branding changes in the branch, etc...
Day 7: Test Spec Review Starts
Day 14-21: Testing Starts
Day 44-51: Testing Ends (roughly 30 days of testing?)
Day 51: 72 Hour NetCat Community Acceptance Vote (use to be a survey, but I
assume now it needs an email vote)
Day 55: 72 Hour PPMC Vote
Day 59: 72 Hour IPMC Vote
Day 64: Release
Before I create a wiki page for this, lets discuss. Is 2 months alittle
long to push out a release?
Secondly, what is our release cadence? Are we planning every 6 months,
maybe attempt to keep some alignment with the JDK release cycle, or
something longer term, like 12 months?
Lets discuss what every one thinks is the right way to go?
Regards
John
On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 08:53, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> I think this discussion should take place on the NetCAT mailing list only
> -- and personally I'm not sure that it is the most urgent discussion at
> this point.
>
> Having a dedicated community focused on testing has always been a good
> thing -- whatever we do, we mustn't lose those dedicated people who have
> been so valuable and enthusiastic over many years.
>
> And many thanks John McDonnell for the proposed possible release cycle --
> to me it looks good and makes sense, maybe this could be put on the Wiki,
> and discussed in a separate thread.
>
> Gj
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 8:12 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> bdelacretaz@apache.org
> > wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 12:46 AM Antonio <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
> > >... Has anybody asked _them_ about this merge? What do they think?...
> >
> > The original post in this thread was cross-posted to both dev and netcat
> > lists.
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@ into
the dev@ mailing list
Posted by Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com>.
One of the really nice features of NB has been the fact that you can run
dozens of versions installed in parallel (I usually only have not more than
four).
I grew accustomed to living on the nightly builds and, fortunately, if one
doesn't work you run "uninstall" and wait a couple of days and try
again...assuming you are interested in the new feature usually announced by
Gj in one of his blog entries. Seems like a few days before a new
"version" release the nightly builds were not available while the release
version was pulled together. I found this procedure to be very handy.
Seems like this process could still be done with Git/Apache....why not? I
think it's unique and I'm not aware any of the competitors who provide that
service (maybe Eclipse does -- not sure). As I write Jenkins is building
#473 and I'm running on #470. Maybe we just need to make the Jenkins
builds more obvious for those of us who like to bleed and keep the
"versions" on a cadence that is convenient for developers. What is best
for developers?
My $.02.
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I like the overall concept - just some small things.
>
> 1. Having people wait for critical bugfixes for 6 months is quite long -
> can we do better?
>
> 2. Do we plan to do update releases, e.g. 9.1, or 9.0 patch 1 (as before)
> with just some cherrypicked stuff onto the existing release base branch?
> How does this fit in with NetCAT, e.g. just do some sanity checks for the
> patch release?
>
> Just my 2€c
>
> -Sven
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@ into
the dev@ mailing list
Posted by Sven Reimers <sv...@gmail.com>.
Hi all,
I like the overall concept - just some small things.
1. Having people wait for critical bugfixes for 6 months is quite long -
can we do better?
2. Do we plan to do update releases, e.g. 9.1, or 9.0 patch 1 (as before)
with just some cherrypicked stuff onto the existing release base branch?
How does this fit in with NetCAT, e.g. just do some sanity checks for the
patch release?
Just my 2€c
-Sven
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:02 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 13:34, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Might every 3 months be pushing it a little?
> >
> > We'll constantly be in a state of picking fixes for release -> testing ->
> > fixing -> release -> picking fixes for release, etc..
> >
> > Something like 6 months is a little more relaxed as it gives us about 4
> > months between releases to make changes, introduce new features to the
> IDE,
> > without rushing.
>
> Funnily enough, my view is that 3 months would be more relaxed,
> because there's less stress to rush a new feature if it's not ready
> when there's a new release cycle imminent. Likewise, this was
> suggested on the basis of master being kept relatively stable, with
> new features mainly being developed in branches until they're ready
> for wider testing. With cherry-picking of changes from master into
> the release branch (like is happening now), I don't see why all these
> things cannot happen in parallel. A bit more Release Early, Release
> Often, with some NetCAT still in the mix! ;-)
>
> I think I'm up to 4c.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
--
Sven Reimers
* Senior Expert Software Architect
* Java Champion
* NetBeans Dream Team Member: http://dreamteam.netbeans.org
* Community Leader NetBeans: http://community.java.net/netbeans
Desktop Java:
http://community.java.net/javadesktop
* JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: http://www.jug-bodensee.de
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* LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@
intothe dev@ mailing list
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
Cool, seems the general consensus is 3 months, and so lets look at what the
plan for those 3 months could be:
I've updated my suggestion to show how I think a 3 month cycle would work:
Day 0-90: Development Continues and takes place in branches - as normal
Day 30: dev mailing list agrees to initiate a release. PR's not merged into
master at this time are identified and merged/reviewed as needed & Code
Branched into specific release Branch & Jenkins updated
Day 30: NetCat Announced + Week of signups
Day 30-36: New and Noteworthy page created/updated (Useful for NetCat
process to see what new features they need to update their test specs
with) + Branding changes in the branch, etc...
Day 37: Test Spec Review Starts
Day 44-51: Last of the PR's are merged into the release branch(and master)
Day 44-51: Release Candiate 1 is Built & NetCat Testing Phase Starts
Day 74-81: Testing Ends (roughly 30 days of testing?)
Day 81: 72 Hour NetCat Community Acceptance Vote (use to be a survey, but I
assume now it needs an email vote)
Day 85: 72 Hour PPMC Vote
Day 89: 72 Hour IPMC Vote
Day 94: Release
I might be wrong here, but when we come out of incubation, we dont need the
IPMC vote so we could be releasing on day 89, then...
Regards
John
On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 08:14, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Me too, 3 months sounds good and makes us competitive to e.g. IntelliJ. VS
> Code has once a month (This is my personal Dream but I know, that this is
> not doable, with our process, netcat, etc.). 6 Months is way to Long.
> Remember, that we don’t have only Java, so to make a release only when a
> new JDK is coming out, is inacceptable. Because we have C/C++, JS, HTML,
> CSS, PHP etc. etc. So please think out of the box, NetBeans is not a Java
> DIE anymore for years.
>
> We have patch Levels which is great but for new Features, I don’t know
> whether the patch Level is working.
>
> So Long Story short: 3 months, IMHO.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Jan Lahoda
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Juni 2018 10:02
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@
> intothe dev@ mailing list
>
> I'd personally prefer faster releases (i.e. 3 months or so).
>
> I'd suggest to try to minimize cherry-picking/backporting. One possible way
> is to have a window for merging features, and then only do
> stabilization/bugfixes in master for some time, and only then (closer to
> the release) do a branch, and only cherry-pick a limited # of changes.
>
> I believe this is the approach that has been used in NetBeans for quite
> some time, and, to me, it seemed to work fairly well. I believe the
> branching occurred a months (or so) before the release, but I may be wrong
> on that.
>
> But it surely is not the only process we could follow.
>
> Jan
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:01 PM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 13:34, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Might every 3 months be pushing it a little?
> > >
> > > We'll constantly be in a state of picking fixes for release -> testing
> ->
> > > fixing -> release -> picking fixes for release, etc..
> > >
> > > Something like 6 months is a little more relaxed as it gives us about
> 4
> > > months between releases to make changes, introduce new features to the
> > IDE,
> > > without rushing.
> >
> > Funnily enough, my view is that 3 months would be more relaxed,
> > because there's less stress to rush a new feature if it's not ready
> > when there's a new release cycle imminent. Likewise, this was
> > suggested on the basis of master being kept relatively stable, with
> > new features mainly being developed in branches until they're ready
> > for wider testing. With cherry-picking of changes from master into
> > the release branch (like is happening now), I don't see why all these
> > things cannot happen in parallel. A bit more Release Early, Release
> > Often, with some NetCAT still in the mix! ;-)
> >
> > I think I'm up to 4c.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
AW: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@
intothe dev@ mailing list
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Me too, 3 months sounds good and makes us competitive to e.g. IntelliJ. VS Code has once a month (This is my personal Dream but I know, that this is not doable, with our process, netcat, etc.). 6 Months is way to Long. Remember, that we don’t have only Java, so to make a release only when a new JDK is coming out, is inacceptable. Because we have C/C++, JS, HTML, CSS, PHP etc. etc. So please think out of the box, NetBeans is not a Java DIE anymore for years.
We have patch Levels which is great but for new Features, I don’t know whether the patch Level is working.
So Long Story short: 3 months, IMHO.
Cheers
Chris
Von: Jan Lahoda
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Juni 2018 10:02
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@ intothe dev@ mailing list
I'd personally prefer faster releases (i.e. 3 months or so).
I'd suggest to try to minimize cherry-picking/backporting. One possible way
is to have a window for merging features, and then only do
stabilization/bugfixes in master for some time, and only then (closer to
the release) do a branch, and only cherry-pick a limited # of changes.
I believe this is the approach that has been used in NetBeans for quite
some time, and, to me, it seemed to work fairly well. I believe the
branching occurred a months (or so) before the release, but I may be wrong
on that.
But it surely is not the only process we could follow.
Jan
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:01 PM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 13:34, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Might every 3 months be pushing it a little?
> >
> > We'll constantly be in a state of picking fixes for release -> testing ->
> > fixing -> release -> picking fixes for release, etc..
> >
> > Something like 6 months is a little more relaxed as it gives us about 4
> > months between releases to make changes, introduce new features to the
> IDE,
> > without rushing.
>
> Funnily enough, my view is that 3 months would be more relaxed,
> because there's less stress to rush a new feature if it's not ready
> when there's a new release cycle imminent. Likewise, this was
> suggested on the basis of master being kept relatively stable, with
> new features mainly being developed in branches until they're ready
> for wider testing. With cherry-picking of changes from master into
> the release branch (like is happening now), I don't see why all these
> things cannot happen in parallel. A bit more Release Early, Release
> Often, with some NetCAT still in the mix! ;-)
>
> I think I'm up to 4c.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@ into
the dev@ mailing list
Posted by Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com>.
I'd personally prefer faster releases (i.e. 3 months or so).
I'd suggest to try to minimize cherry-picking/backporting. One possible way
is to have a window for merging features, and then only do
stabilization/bugfixes in master for some time, and only then (closer to
the release) do a branch, and only cherry-pick a limited # of changes.
I believe this is the approach that has been used in NetBeans for quite
some time, and, to me, it seemed to work fairly well. I believe the
branching occurred a months (or so) before the release, but I may be wrong
on that.
But it surely is not the only process we could follow.
Jan
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:01 PM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 13:34, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Might every 3 months be pushing it a little?
> >
> > We'll constantly be in a state of picking fixes for release -> testing ->
> > fixing -> release -> picking fixes for release, etc..
> >
> > Something like 6 months is a little more relaxed as it gives us about 4
> > months between releases to make changes, introduce new features to the
> IDE,
> > without rushing.
>
> Funnily enough, my view is that 3 months would be more relaxed,
> because there's less stress to rush a new feature if it's not ready
> when there's a new release cycle imminent. Likewise, this was
> suggested on the basis of master being kept relatively stable, with
> new features mainly being developed in branches until they're ready
> for wider testing. With cherry-picking of changes from master into
> the release branch (like is happening now), I don't see why all these
> things cannot happen in parallel. A bit more Release Early, Release
> Often, with some NetCAT still in the mix! ;-)
>
> I think I'm up to 4c.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@ into
the dev@ mailing list
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 13:34, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Might every 3 months be pushing it a little?
>
> We'll constantly be in a state of picking fixes for release -> testing ->
> fixing -> release -> picking fixes for release, etc..
>
> Something like 6 months is a little more relaxed as it gives us about 4
> months between releases to make changes, introduce new features to the IDE,
> without rushing.
Funnily enough, my view is that 3 months would be more relaxed,
because there's less stress to rush a new feature if it's not ready
when there's a new release cycle imminent. Likewise, this was
suggested on the basis of master being kept relatively stable, with
new features mainly being developed in branches until they're ready
for wider testing. With cherry-picking of changes from master into
the release branch (like is happening now), I don't see why all these
things cannot happen in parallel. A bit more Release Early, Release
Often, with some NetCAT still in the mix! ;-)
I think I'm up to 4c.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@ into
the dev@ mailing list
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
Might every 3 months be pushing it a little?
We'll constantly be in a state of picking fixes for release -> testing ->
fixing -> release -> picking fixes for release, etc..
Something like 6 months is a little more relaxed as it gives us about 4
months between releases to make changes, introduce new features to the IDE,
without rushing.
John
On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 12:38, Emilian Bold
<em...@protonmail.ch.invalid> wrote:
> Every 3 months sounds good.
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>
> On 26 June 2018 11:38 AM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 09:12, John McDonnell mcdonnell.john@gmail.com
> wrote:
> >
> > > Secondly, what is our release cadence? Are we planning every 6 months,
> > >
> > > maybe attempt to keep some alignment with the JDK release cycle, or
> > >
> > > something longer term, like 12 months?
> >
> > Thanks for kicking this off. Personally, while I'd be happy with 6
> >
> > months, I think aiming for quarterly releases would be a good thing
> >
> > after 9.0, as well as a fixed schedule so everyone know where things
> >
> > stand. Incremental changes, increasing the chances of PR features and
> >
> > bug fixes being out in the wild sooner, while not delaying releases
> >
> > when something isn't quite ready, because the next release will be out
> >
> > soon enough!
> >
> > My thought would be every 3 months -
> >
> > Day 0-30 : branch off master, cherrypick additional fixes aimed for
> >
> > release, prepare beta.
> >
> > Day 30-60 : release beta, shorter form of NetCAT.
> >
> > Day 60-90 : fix major issues raised in NetCAT, update docs, release.
> >
> > My 2c
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@ into the dev@ mailing list
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch.INVALID>.
Every 3 months sounds good.
--emi
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On 26 June 2018 11:38 AM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 09:12, John McDonnell mcdonnell.john@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Secondly, what is our release cadence? Are we planning every 6 months,
> >
> > maybe attempt to keep some alignment with the JDK release cycle, or
> >
> > something longer term, like 12 months?
>
> Thanks for kicking this off. Personally, while I'd be happy with 6
>
> months, I think aiming for quarterly releases would be a good thing
>
> after 9.0, as well as a fixed schedule so everyone know where things
>
> stand. Incremental changes, increasing the chances of PR features and
>
> bug fixes being out in the wild sooner, while not delaying releases
>
> when something isn't quite ready, because the next release will be out
>
> soon enough!
>
> My thought would be every 3 months -
>
> Day 0-30 : branch off master, cherrypick additional fixes aimed for
>
> release, prepare beta.
>
> Day 30-60 : release beta, shorter form of NetCAT.
>
> Day 60-90 : fix major issues raised in NetCAT, update docs, release.
>
> My 2c
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed Release ProcessWAS: Merging back netcat@ into
the dev@ mailing list
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 09:12, John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Secondly, what is our release cadence? Are we planning every 6 months,
> maybe attempt to keep some alignment with the JDK release cycle, or
> something longer term, like 12 months?
Thanks for kicking this off. Personally, while I'd be happy with 6
months, I think aiming for quarterly releases would be a good thing
after 9.0, as well as a fixed schedule so everyone know where things
stand. Incremental changes, increasing the chances of PR features and
bug fixes being out in the wild sooner, while not delaying releases
when something isn't quite ready, because the next release will be out
soon enough!
My thought would be every 3 months -
Day 0-30 : branch off master, cherrypick additional fixes aimed for
release, prepare beta.
Day 30-60 : release beta, shorter form of NetCAT.
Day 60-90 : fix major issues raised in NetCAT, update docs, release.
My 2c
Best wishes,
Neil
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