DoubleDown Casino has received: Re: It’s time to change the name

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Dev, Apr 29, 2022, 7:14 PDT

Speaking as someone in the Pacific Northwest US, where we say land
acknowledgement for the Duwamish tribe at the beginning of all school
events, meaning I respect and understand the motivation for this:

I think simply opening this up for a member vote will result in an
unproductive firefight. Reactions will range from enthusiastic sympathy to
bewildered annoyance to outright hostile accusations.

Can I propose an outreach to some Apache tribe governments so we can open a
dialog with them directly, and start to understand what their official
experience of the ASF branding is?

Then we could formulate a plan after some deliberation.

The plan could include logo redesign if the feather symbol is viewed as
insensitive, for example, and other changes balanced with feasibility and
community values.

Best
Andrew

On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 6:29 AM me <me...@emangini.com> wrote:

> @Christian
>
> You’re very welcome! I think an internal poll has a great way of defining
> footholds. It’s going to be hard to craft to avoid confirmation bias, but I
> think it’s definitely possible.
>
> @Matt
>
> I agree. There is no doubt that this is something that would require
> stages. Approaching this “Big Bang” style is going to fail pretty quickly.
> I’m thinking the effort is going to be an amalgam of the Washington
> Redskins -> Commanders effort + the migration from JUnit 4 to 5. This
> definitely hits on the “strategic” aspect of Sam’s initial questions.
>
> I think we can probably differentiate a brand change and a name change as
> separate efforts (or at the very least separate life cycles). Large
> organizations that acquire startups and small companies often rebrand the
> acquired assets and their products to better fit their business/tech
> strategy. However, underlying assets (repos, docs, materials) are retrofit
> at a slower burn.
>
>
> I think the first action item is probably a poll. I’m happy to pair/mob
> (virtually or otherwise) on it with someone. Are there any particular
> psychometrics we’d like to leverage (i.e. Likert?)
>
> @Walter, do you want to take a first stab at a poll? Maybe we can put
> together a small tiger team to carry it out?
>
>
>
>
> From: Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
> Reply: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Date: April 28, 2022 at 18:45:07
> To: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Subject:  Re: It’s time to change the name
>
> Defining a scope here is also fairly important. For example, the
> apache.org domain name is fairly baked into a lot of unchangeable
> places such as Java package names, every single released artifact, the
> software license itself (which is used by tons of people outside of
> ASF), all the existing public URLs to things, email addresses, signing
> keys, the GitHub organization name, tons of infrastructure
> configuration, finance documents, corporate documents, trademarks, and
> surely other areas I'm forgetting.
>
> If we have a name change and only update the places where it's easy to
> do so, the name Apache will still be highly visible in tons of key
> areas for the indefinite future. This isn't even considering
> downstream users of Apache software, either, who may or may not adopt
> a rename. These are some of the fairly intractable concerns I've had
> about a name change, and that's even after working with another OSS
> project that went through a name change and still has tons of
> references to its old names due to compatibility issues.
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 3:49 PM Christian Grobmeier
> <gr...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, at 22:19, me wrote:
> > > Christian,
> > >
> > > Were you thinking of an internal poll? That’s actually a spectacular
> idea.
> >
> > Yes, that was I was thinking. Basically a poll on members@, since (I
> guess) members would eventually decide on that proposal.
> >
> > >
> > > How do we go about kicking that off?
> >
> > I am not so sure either, but I guess writing the poll and proposing it
> to community@ would be a first step. Once decided on the content we could
> vote on sending it, and then send it to members@
> >
> > Others may have different ideas, but that is my first idea on it.
> >
> > Thanks for calling my idea spectacular, it gives me a warm feeling,
> since I didn't think of it as such :)
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Christian
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ed Mangini
> > > me@emangini.com
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Christian Grobmeier <gr...@apache.org>
> > > Reply: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Date: April 28, 2022 at 15:43:04
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Subject: Re: It’s time to change the name
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, at 20:57, me wrote:
> > >> > The desire to make the change is definitely there. I echo Walter’s
> > >> > passion and statements.
> > >>
> > >> +1
> > >> > I also agree w/ Sam that this isn’t going to be easy to
> accomplish.
> > >>
> > >> +1
> > >>
> > >> > Perhaps a starting point would be to answer these questions in
> concert:
> > >> > - what is the LOE to perform the rebranding/renaming?
> > >> > - are there enough volunteers within the organization willing to
> participate?
> > >> > - what does the community think?
> > >> >
> > >> > I want to emphasize that this last question is a point of no
> return. If
> > >> > we start creating surveys and asking about our brand, it’s going
> to
> > >> > chum the waters.
> > >>
> > >> Agreed. I would have thought to make a poll in the community first-
> briefly explain the issue and see what the community (non-binding) vote is
> - just checking sentiments.
> > >>
> > >> I am afraid there will be a lot of headwinds. But based on the
> outcome one could decide if its more work to explain the issue or actually
> solve the issue.
> > >>
> > >> Also a quick poll could stir up some people who are interested in
> helping.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Christian
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > From: Walter Cameron <wa...@waltercameron.com>
> > >> > Reply: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > >> > Date: April 28, 2022 at 01:29:03
> > >> > To: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > >> > Subject: Re: It’s time to change the name
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 6:40 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Walter: what are you personally willing to volunteer to do? What
> is
> > >> >> your plan? What resources do you need?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Honestly Sam the extent of my plan was to bring attention to this
> issue and
> > >> > the harms it’s caused. Beyond that I’m kinda winging it but I
> appreciate
> > >> > your eagerness and openness to change. I had hoped I’d speak up,
> people
> > >> > would finally pull their heads out of the sand and work to undo the
> harm
> > >> > they’ve caused.
> > >> >
> > >> > ASF’s brand violates its own CoC. You would think that might spur
> effort
> > >> > for change by those perpetuating the harm, but if you want me to do
> the
> > >> > work I’ll do whatever I can. I’m not that familiar with the details
> of the
> > >> > organization, surely not as familiar as one of its Directors, so in
> a lot
> > >> > of ways I don’t fully understand the scope of what needs to be
> done, but
> > >> > I’m willing to volunteer a few weekends of my rudimentary technical
> and
> > >> > design skills to run a “Find & Replace…” and put together a new
> logo or
> > >> > whatever you think would be helpful in this effort. I haven’t
> designed a
> > >> > logo in probably 15 years but I’m willing to give it a try.
> > >> >
> > >> > I would have assumed that an organization with a paid staff and
> goals to
> > >> > increase the diversity of its contributors and continue receiving
> corporate
> > >> > donations would understand that the costs of inaction outweigh the
> costs of
> > >> > action here.
> > >> >
> > >> > Let me know what else I can do to help.
> > >> >
> > >> > Walter
> > >>
> > >>
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