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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> on 2012/03/12 22:47:42 UTC
Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Hi All,
We have had a recent discussion in the forum (after another case) about the problem where files are replaced with only hashes, leading to serious data loss.
Is there any plan to handle it or at least to double check the save process?
For the record: usually after a power loss, the opened file is wrecked and no data is recoverable. In very rare cases (I've seen it twice IIRC), user is able to recover the last version from the temporary files.
The discussion: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
The post where I've listed more than 90 similar reports in forums: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
The issue I'd filed: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=107847
NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess so according to a quick Google search: http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html
Of course the bug is not reproducible, it happens on several OS, with different versions but has appeared clearly end of 2008.
Please remember that this bug is very detrimental to the product reputation, leading to a loss of confidence in the code. Especially for a very basic feature. Facing say a power loss is not usual but the original file should not be processed until the new file is correctly written (or its temporary version should at least be available for recovery).
Hagar
Re: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
El día 12 de marzo de 2012 22:47, Hagar Delest
<ha...@laposte.net> escribió:
> Hi All,
>
> We have had a recent discussion in the forum (after another case) about the
> problem where files are replaced with only hashes, leading to serious data
> loss.
> Is there any plan to handle it or at least to double check the save process?
>
> For the record: usually after a power loss, the opened file is wrecked and
> no data is recoverable. In very rare cases (I've seen it twice IIRC), user
> is able to recover the last version from the temporary files.
> The discussion:
> http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
> The post where I've listed more than 90 similar reports in forums:
> http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
> The issue I'd filed: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=107847
>
> NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess so according
> to a quick Google search:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html
>
> Of course the bug is not reproducible, it happens on several OS, with
> different versions but has appeared clearly end of 2008.
>
> Please remember that this bug is very detrimental to the product reputation,
> leading to a loss of confidence in the code. Especially for a very basic
> feature. Facing say a power loss is not usual but the original file should
> not be processed until the new file is correctly written (or its temporary
> version should at least be available for recovery).
>
> Hagar
I think that the first step should be to enable by default the "always
create backup copy" under Tools → Options → Load/Save. Second step
should be to set the default path to the backup folder on a more
visible location: I've seen many users that get panicked when you say
they need to search for the hidden folder that contains the user
profile.
Ricardo
Re: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:47:42 +0100
Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We have had a recent discussion in the forum (after another
> case) about the problem where files are replaced with only
> hashes, leading to serious data loss. Is there any plan to
> handle it or at least to double check the save process?
>
> For the record: usually after a power loss, the opened file is
> wrecked and no data is recoverable. In very rare cases (I've
> seen it twice IIRC), user is able to recover the last version
> from the temporary files. The discussion:
> http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
> The post where I've listed more than 90 similar reports in
> forums:
> http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
> The issue I'd filed:
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=107847
>
> NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess
> so according to a quick Google search:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html
>
> Of course the bug is not reproducible, it happens on several
> OS, with different versions but has appeared clearly end of
> 2008.
>
> Please remember that this bug is very detrimental to the
> product reputation, leading to a loss of confidence in the
> code. Especially for a very basic feature. Facing say a power
> loss is not usual but the original file should not be processed
> until the new file is correctly written (or its temporary
> version should at least be available for recovery).
>
> Hagar
>
I add my voice to Hagar's remarks. I can remember back in pre
CP/M days, while working in Z80 assembler, running into a similar
problem; its fix necessitated a rethink of the file saving
protocol. Of course, I realise that one cannot write bomb-proof
code, but one certainly ought be able to improve the situation
where the last copy of a file is erased or destroyed if the power
fails - a common scenario with less experienced users and laptops.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
Re: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Posted by Alexander Thurgood <al...@gmail.com>.
Le 12/03/12 22:47, Hagar Delest a écrit :
Hi Hagar,
> NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess so
> according to a quick Google search:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html
Yes, the problem has been raised also on some of the LO user lists, at
least the ones I follow, not sure whether the file was filled with
dashes though, or just trashed with irrelevant bytes of random
characters, I haven't looked at the details enough.
>
>
> Of course the bug is not reproducible, it happens on several OS, with
> different versions but has appeared clearly end of 2008.
And possibly even older than that, from my own recollections of lost
files, and attempts to save data in some way or another.
>
> Please remember that this bug is very detrimental to the product
> reputation, leading to a loss of confidence in the code. Especially for
> a very basic feature. Facing say a power loss is not usual but the
> original file should not be processed until the new file is correctly
> written (or its temporary version should at least be available for
> recovery).
If I have understood correctly, this is currently being looked at within
the LO project on the developer list, using fsync (or its Windows
equivalent), but in a way that would attempt to reduce the performance
hit. There might be something of use their for the AOOo project. I don't
have a Nabble reference to hand just now to point to the particular thread.
Alex
Re: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Posted by Kevin Sisco <ke...@gmail.com>.
As far as keeping data safe, would it be practical to have the
software create "stored session" files? I guess this would be much
like a dump file on windows or simply a setting file on certain
editing programs. Just a thought.
On 3/12/12, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We have had a recent discussion in the forum (after another case) about the
> problem where files are replaced with only hashes, leading to serious data
> loss.
> Is there any plan to handle it or at least to double check the save process?
>
> For the record: usually after a power loss, the opened file is wrecked and
> no data is recoverable. In very rare cases (I've seen it twice IIRC), user
> is able to recover the last version from the temporary files.
> The discussion:
> http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
> The post where I've listed more than 90 similar reports in forums:
> http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
> The issue I'd filed: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=107847
>
> NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess so according
> to a quick Google search:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html
>
> Of course the bug is not reproducible, it happens on several OS, with
> different versions but has appeared clearly end of 2008.
>
> Please remember that this bug is very detrimental to the product reputation,
> leading to a loss of confidence in the code. Especially for a very basic
> feature. Facing say a power loss is not usual but the original file should
> not be processed until the new file is correctly written (or its temporary
> version should at least be available for recovery).
>
> Hagar
>
Re: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 05:38:51 +0100
eric b <er...@free.fr> wrote:
>
> Le 12 mars 12 à 22:47, Hagar Delest a écrit :
>
> > Hi All,
> >
>
> Hi,
>
>
> > We have had a recent discussion in the forum (after another case)
> > about the problem where files are replaced with only hashes,
> > leading to serious data loss.
> > Is there any plan to handle it or at least to double check the save
> > process?
> >
>
> Currently, not that I know.
>
>
> > For the record: usually after a power loss, the opened file is
> > wrecked and no data is recoverable. In very rare cases (I've seen
> > it twice IIRC), user is able to recover the last version from the
> > temporary files.
> > The discussion: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/
> > viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
> > The post where I've listed more than 90 similar reports in forums:
> > http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?
> > f=6&t=17677#p81363
> > The issue I'd filed: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?
> > id=107847
> >
>
>
> To be honest, I had a lot of similar issues with (old versions of)
> Windows + MS Office, exactly the same way, long time ago. I even
> remeber I lost a lof of work myself and I never complained to
> Microsoft, who does not care (imho).
>
> This isssue looks like a true issue, but a one extremely difficult to
> reproduce. There are really a lot of possible reasons to turn
> something readable into ####, like a simple 1 bit offset somewhere in
> the datas, or some unneeded address incrementation in some loop,
> including bad things with the file system (somewhere in sal or more
> complicated). I think you understand things are awfully complicated
> to track.
>
> Until we find a track, the most important is to collect as much of
> datas as possible. There is certainly one common denominator for a
> big part of those issues imho, but the area of investigations is
> enormous.
>
> Of course, I don't have a solution, and only common work could help.
> To make progress, we could define a strategy when one new issue is
> detected, e.g. :
>
> - create a meta-issue (I'll let other people propose a name)
> - propose a process to collect datas, and what do if ever such issue
> occurs (like not power off the computer, or provide us a previous
> version of the damaged document if possible .. and so on)
> - explain the users the difficulty to reproduce, and the analyze
> needs more information than other issues, so we need to collect a lot
> before to imagine a root and solve it
> - cross the issues with other OpenOffice.org derivatives could help :
> I'll ask on our lists, to know whether the problem occured with
> OOo4Kids too.
>
> - (please propose other ideas)
>
>
>
> > NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess so
> > according to a quick Google search: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> > libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html
> >
>
> I think you should keep an eye on this side, but I bet this is the
> case too.
>
>
>
> > Of course the bug is not reproducible, it happens on several OS,
> > with different versions but has appeared clearly end of 2008.
> >
>
>
> More the date is precise, more it will help : there is probably some
> history somewhere, and a list of cws introduced in meantime could
> help to isolate a good candidate for the (possible) bug or regression.
>
>
>
> > Please remember that this bug is very detrimental to the product
> > reputation, leading to a loss of confidence in the code.
>
>
> Yes, but we should not exagerate either. Know data loss is possible,
> is true. This is a serious, but very seldom issue : we can create,
> use files without lose something most of the time. I'd even bet
> people lose more often their datas on windows because of viruses,
> trojan, whatever than with OOo.
>
> Last but not least the code is open, what is something really good in
> this case.
>
>
> > Especially for a very basic feature. Facing say a power loss is not
> > usual but the original file should not be processed until the new
> > file is correctly written (or its temporary version should at least
> > be available for recovery).
>
>
> My 2 cts
>
> Eric
>
Eric remarks
> This isssue looks like a true issue, but a one extremely difficult to
> reproduce. There are really a lot of possible reasons to turn
> something readable into ####, like a simple 1 bit offset somewhere in
> the datas, or some unneeded address incrementation in some loop,
> including bad things with the file system (somewhere in sal or more
> complicated). I think you understand things are awfully complicated
> to track.
I agree that the hash problem is difficult to track, but an immediate worry should be that the original file is frequently destroyed in the event of crash/power failure. I think we all understand that a file in progress of editing is not secure if there is a crash, but the original file ought not be zapped under almost all circumstances.
So I see two problems -
one) the need to preserve the original file, which ought be easy as it is a change in the logic of the Save process,
two) the need to investigate what code shortcoming leads to files of hashes, which may involve detailed analysis of low level code (my thoughts are that it may be caused by unmasked interrupts, but I haven't coded at that level for 30 years, so am out of my experience).
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
RE: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Posted by "C. J. Palmer" <cj...@charter.net>.
Please no more E-Mails
-----Original Message-----
From: xia zhao [mailto:lilyzhao8@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 1:31 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
2012/3/13 eric b <er...@free.fr>
>
> Le 12 mars 12 à 22:47, Hagar Delest a écrit :
>
> Hi All,
>>
>>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> We have had a recent discussion in the forum (after another case) about
>> the problem where files are replaced with only hashes, leading to serious
>> data loss.
>> Is there any plan to handle it or at least to double check the save
>> process?
>>
>>
> Currently, not that I know.
>
>
>
> For the record: usually after a power loss, the opened file is wrecked
>> and no data is recoverable. In very rare cases (I've seen it twice IIRC),
>> user is able to recover the last version from the temporary files.
>> The discussion: http://user.services.**openoffice.org/en/forum/**
>> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677<http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677>
>> The post where I've listed more than 90 similar reports in forums:
>> http://user.services.**openoffice.org/en/forum/**
>> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#**p81363<http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363>
>> The issue I'd filed: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**
>> show_bug.cgi?id=107847<https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=107847>
>>
>>
>
> To be honest, I had a lot of similar issues with (old versions of) Windows
> + MS Office, exactly the same way, long time ago. I even remeber I lost a
> lof of work myself and I never complained to Microsoft, who does not care
> (imho).
>
> This isssue looks like a true issue, but a one extremely difficult to
> reproduce. There are really a lot of possible reasons to turn something
> readable into ####, like a simple 1 bit offset somewhere in the datas, or
> some unneeded address incrementation in some loop, including bad things
> with the file system (somewhere in sal or more complicated). I think you
> understand things are awfully complicated to track.
>
> Until we find a track, the most important is to collect as much of datas
> as possible. There is certainly one common denominator for a big part of
> those issues imho, but the area of investigations is enormous.
>
> Of course, I don't have a solution, and only common work could help. To
> make progress, we could define a strategy when one new issue is detected,
> e.g. :
>
> - create a meta-issue (I'll let other people propose a name)
> - propose a process to collect datas, and what do if ever such issue
> occurs (like not power off the computer, or provide us a previous version
> of the damaged document if possible .. and so on)
> - explain the users the difficulty to reproduce, and the analyze needs
> more information than other issues, so we need to collect a lot before to
> imagine a root and solve it
> - cross the issues with other OpenOffice.org derivatives could help : I'll
> ask on our lists, to know whether the problem occured with OOo4Kids too.
>
> - (please propose other ideas)
>
> I agree collecting datas is one good way, is there any log when recovery
> fail or data lost?
>
Meanwhile, can someone do save, recovery logic analysis? Such as cold
walkthrough etc?
From QA view, I will add this scenario, power lost, long run etc to AOO
3.4 scope to see if something can catch.
Lily
>
>
> NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess so
>> according to a quick Google search: http://www.mail-archive.com/**
>> libreoffice-bugs@lists.**freedesktop.org/msg19017.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html>
>>
>>
> I think you should keep an eye on this side, but I bet this is the case
> too.
>
>
>
>
> Of course the bug is not reproducible, it happens on several OS, with
>> different versions but has appeared clearly end of 2008.
>>
>>
>
> More the date is precise, more it will help : there is probably some
> history somewhere, and a list of cws introduced in meantime could help to
> isolate a good candidate for the (possible) bug or regression.
>
>
>
>
> Please remember that this bug is very detrimental to the product
>> reputation, leading to a loss of confidence in the code.
>>
>
>
> Yes, but we should not exagerate either. Know data loss is possible, is
> true. This is a serious, but very seldom issue : we can create, use files
> without lose something most of the time. I'd even bet people lose more
> often their datas on windows because of viruses, trojan, whatever than with
> OOo.
>
> Last but not least the code is open, what is something really good in this
> case.
>
>
>
> Especially for a very basic feature. Facing say a power loss is not usual
>> but the original file should not be processed until the new file is
>> correctly written (or its temporary version should at least be available
>> for recovery).
>>
>
>
> My 2 cts
>
> Eric
>
> --
> qɔᴉɹə
> Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/**index.php/Main_Page<http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page>
> L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
> Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Posted by xia zhao <li...@gmail.com>.
2012/3/13 eric b <er...@free.fr>
>
> Le 12 mars 12 à 22:47, Hagar Delest a écrit :
>
> Hi All,
>>
>>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> We have had a recent discussion in the forum (after another case) about
>> the problem where files are replaced with only hashes, leading to serious
>> data loss.
>> Is there any plan to handle it or at least to double check the save
>> process?
>>
>>
> Currently, not that I know.
>
>
>
> For the record: usually after a power loss, the opened file is wrecked
>> and no data is recoverable. In very rare cases (I've seen it twice IIRC),
>> user is able to recover the last version from the temporary files.
>> The discussion: http://user.services.**openoffice.org/en/forum/**
>> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677<http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677>
>> The post where I've listed more than 90 similar reports in forums:
>> http://user.services.**openoffice.org/en/forum/**
>> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#**p81363<http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363>
>> The issue I'd filed: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**
>> show_bug.cgi?id=107847<https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=107847>
>>
>>
>
> To be honest, I had a lot of similar issues with (old versions of) Windows
> + MS Office, exactly the same way, long time ago. I even remeber I lost a
> lof of work myself and I never complained to Microsoft, who does not care
> (imho).
>
> This isssue looks like a true issue, but a one extremely difficult to
> reproduce. There are really a lot of possible reasons to turn something
> readable into ####, like a simple 1 bit offset somewhere in the datas, or
> some unneeded address incrementation in some loop, including bad things
> with the file system (somewhere in sal or more complicated). I think you
> understand things are awfully complicated to track.
>
> Until we find a track, the most important is to collect as much of datas
> as possible. There is certainly one common denominator for a big part of
> those issues imho, but the area of investigations is enormous.
>
> Of course, I don't have a solution, and only common work could help. To
> make progress, we could define a strategy when one new issue is detected,
> e.g. :
>
> - create a meta-issue (I'll let other people propose a name)
> - propose a process to collect datas, and what do if ever such issue
> occurs (like not power off the computer, or provide us a previous version
> of the damaged document if possible .. and so on)
> - explain the users the difficulty to reproduce, and the analyze needs
> more information than other issues, so we need to collect a lot before to
> imagine a root and solve it
> - cross the issues with other OpenOffice.org derivatives could help : I'll
> ask on our lists, to know whether the problem occured with OOo4Kids too.
>
> - (please propose other ideas)
>
> I agree collecting datas is one good way, is there any log when recovery
> fail or data lost?
>
Meanwhile, can someone do save, recovery logic analysis? Such as cold
walkthrough etc?
From QA view, I will add this scenario, power lost, long run etc to AOO
3.4 scope to see if something can catch.
Lily
>
>
> NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess so
>> according to a quick Google search: http://www.mail-archive.com/**
>> libreoffice-bugs@lists.**freedesktop.org/msg19017.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html>
>>
>>
> I think you should keep an eye on this side, but I bet this is the case
> too.
>
>
>
>
> Of course the bug is not reproducible, it happens on several OS, with
>> different versions but has appeared clearly end of 2008.
>>
>>
>
> More the date is precise, more it will help : there is probably some
> history somewhere, and a list of cws introduced in meantime could help to
> isolate a good candidate for the (possible) bug or regression.
>
>
>
>
> Please remember that this bug is very detrimental to the product
>> reputation, leading to a loss of confidence in the code.
>>
>
>
> Yes, but we should not exagerate either. Know data loss is possible, is
> true. This is a serious, but very seldom issue : we can create, use files
> without lose something most of the time. I'd even bet people lose more
> often their datas on windows because of viruses, trojan, whatever than with
> OOo.
>
> Last but not least the code is open, what is something really good in this
> case.
>
>
>
> Especially for a very basic feature. Facing say a power loss is not usual
>> but the original file should not be processed until the new file is
>> correctly written (or its temporary version should at least be available
>> for recovery).
>>
>
>
> My 2 cts
>
> Eric
>
> --
> qɔᴉɹə
> Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/**index.php/Main_Page<http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page>
> L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
> Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Le Tue, 13 Mar 2012 05:38:51 +0100, eric b <er...@free.fr> a écrit :
>
> Until we find a track, the most important is to collect as much of datas as possible. There is certainly one common denominator for a big part of those issues imho, but the area of investigations is enormous.
>
There are 91 reports and for each, I've mentioned in the post linked what OS, what OOo version and if there was a special situation (very often power loss). Of course we used to ask for details but there is no pattern that could be noticed sadly.
> Of course, I don't have a solution, and only common work could help. To make progress, we could define a strategy when one new issue is detected, e.g. :
>
> - create a meta-issue (I'll let other people propose a name)
> - propose a process to collect datas, and what do if ever such issue occurs (like not power off the computer, or provide us a previous version of the damaged document if possible .. and so on)
Are you talking about the bug report? There is already a link to the forum topic.
The problem is that there is usually no previous version (or very old), user has already rebooted (hoping OOo would recover something).
> - explain the users the difficulty to reproduce, and the analyze needs more information than other issues, so we need to collect a lot before to imagine a root and solve it
In fact, it's rather uneasy to admit that the save process is not robust enough. Users can understand that the new file is damaged but not the original one. Either one of the 2 versions (the new one or the former one) should be ok, not both wrecked.
>> NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess so according to a quick Google search: http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html
>>
>
> I think you should keep an eye on this side, but I bet this is the case too.
I think that devs feeling is the same for LibO: just don't look at it too much...
> More the date is precise, more it will help : there is probably some history somewhere, and a list of cws introduced in meantime could help to isolate a good candidate for the (possible) bug or regression.
Date is rather easy to trace with the posts timing.
Hagar
Re: Files replaced by hashes, let's face it
Posted by eric b <er...@free.fr>.
Le 12 mars 12 à 22:47, Hagar Delest a écrit :
> Hi All,
>
Hi,
> We have had a recent discussion in the forum (after another case)
> about the problem where files are replaced with only hashes,
> leading to serious data loss.
> Is there any plan to handle it or at least to double check the save
> process?
>
Currently, not that I know.
> For the record: usually after a power loss, the opened file is
> wrecked and no data is recoverable. In very rare cases (I've seen
> it twice IIRC), user is able to recover the last version from the
> temporary files.
> The discussion: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/
> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
> The post where I've listed more than 90 similar reports in forums:
> http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?
> f=6&t=17677#p81363
> The issue I'd filed: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?
> id=107847
>
To be honest, I had a lot of similar issues with (old versions of)
Windows + MS Office, exactly the same way, long time ago. I even
remeber I lost a lof of work myself and I never complained to
Microsoft, who does not care (imho).
This isssue looks like a true issue, but a one extremely difficult to
reproduce. There are really a lot of possible reasons to turn
something readable into ####, like a simple 1 bit offset somewhere in
the datas, or some unneeded address incrementation in some loop,
including bad things with the file system (somewhere in sal or more
complicated). I think you understand things are awfully complicated
to track.
Until we find a track, the most important is to collect as much of
datas as possible. There is certainly one common denominator for a
big part of those issues imho, but the area of investigations is
enormous.
Of course, I don't have a solution, and only common work could help.
To make progress, we could define a strategy when one new issue is
detected, e.g. :
- create a meta-issue (I'll let other people propose a name)
- propose a process to collect datas, and what do if ever such issue
occurs (like not power off the computer, or provide us a previous
version of the damaged document if possible .. and so on)
- explain the users the difficulty to reproduce, and the analyze
needs more information than other issues, so we need to collect a lot
before to imagine a root and solve it
- cross the issues with other OpenOffice.org derivatives could help :
I'll ask on our lists, to know whether the problem occured with
OOo4Kids too.
- (please propose other ideas)
> NB: not sure if LibO has inherited this problem too but I guess so
> according to a quick Google search: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/msg19017.html
>
I think you should keep an eye on this side, but I bet this is the
case too.
> Of course the bug is not reproducible, it happens on several OS,
> with different versions but has appeared clearly end of 2008.
>
More the date is precise, more it will help : there is probably some
history somewhere, and a list of cws introduced in meantime could
help to isolate a good candidate for the (possible) bug or regression.
> Please remember that this bug is very detrimental to the product
> reputation, leading to a loss of confidence in the code.
Yes, but we should not exagerate either. Know data loss is possible,
is true. This is a serious, but very seldom issue : we can create,
use files without lose something most of the time. I'd even bet
people lose more often their datas on windows because of viruses,
trojan, whatever than with OOo.
Last but not least the code is open, what is something really good in
this case.
> Especially for a very basic feature. Facing say a power loss is not
> usual but the original file should not be processed until the new
> file is correctly written (or its temporary version should at least
> be available for recovery).
My 2 cts
Eric
--
qɔᴉɹə
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