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Posted to repository@apache.org by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> on 2006/06/16 17:37:24 UTC
Incubator artifacts and repositories
The repository folks have thus far created several repositories:
http://www.apache.org/dist/java-repository/
http://www.apache.org/dist/maven-repository/
http://people.apache.org/repository/
Other than filenames, which are meaningless when the artifacts are
transparently downloaded by build tools, the contents of
http://people.apache.org/repository/ makes no attempt to differentiate
between artifacts (snapshots or otherwise) for official ASF projects,
non-ASF projects, and Apache Incubator projects.
The Incubator has consistently established clear guidelines that Incubator
artifacts are supposed to require a deliberate, intentional, act of
acceptance on the part of the user. Adding a general ASF repository of
mixed content does not satisfy that requirement, in my view. I would be
happier, I suppose, with a separate repository, e.g.,
http://incubator.apache.org/repository, that clearly indicates the nature of
its contents, and contains only Incubator artifacts.
Opinions? What do others feel?
I am leaving orthogonal my view that it is entirely irresponsible to
encourage or even condone the use of automatically downloaded artifacts
without authenticating the content of those artifacts.
--- Noel
cc: repository@, but discussion to be on general@incubator.apache.org
Re: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com>.
On 19/06/06, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> Yep. I have no problems with that per se.
>
> Especially if Maven is a happy fellow with "0.9-incubating-SNAPSHOT" and
> such...
>
Yep.
Also, under the versioning rules:
0.9-incubating-SNAPSHOT < 0.9-incubating < 0.9-SNAPSHOT < 0.9
So even if it were re-released as 0.9 after being 0.9-incubating,
that'd work for any version comparisons.
- Brett
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Re: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Monday 19 June 2006 05:41, Brett Porter wrote:
> Here's what we should do:
> - put "incubating" in the version (not the group or artifact ID). This
> poses the least technical limitations to the project.
> - not publish in the main repository (that's what we do with other
> distributions). However, I don't think we necessarily need multiple
> other repositories - we just need 'sanctioned' and 'unsanctioned',
> which could well include beta/RC builds for other projects.
> - should someone ask to upload to Ibiblio separately, it can be done.
> Incubating is still in the version, the important thing is that it's
> not represented in the official ASF repo.
>
> Sound ok?
Yep. I have no problems with that per se.
Especially if Maven is a happy fellow with "0.9-incubating-SNAPSHOT" and
such...
Cheers
Niclas
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Re: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com>.
On 18/06/06, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> That it is now a Apache project and all that comes with that.
>
> Changing the label on the web page is not sufficient, as all artifacts contain
> the "Incubating" disclaimer.
Yes, I'm aware of that, and probably should have directly mentioned this.
"Incubation ... indicates that the infrastructure, communications, and
decision making process have stabilized in a manner consistent with
other successful ASF projects.
"While incubation status is not necessarily a reflection of the
completeness or stability of the code, it does indicate that the
project has yet to be fully endorsed by the ASF."
This was all I was getting at - the disclaimer doesn't talk about the
code being endorsed but the project and its community. Graduation
doesn't affect the validity of prior releases and people can still use
them in the knowledge that the project is now endorsed.
Anyway, I was just trying to get at the clear aim here which I believe
is to make it clear to the user that project is not yet endorsed by
the ASF. I believe the best thing to do here is Alan's suggestion to
change the version. This also happens to follow what Jackrabbit did,
which is probably the best example of a well-incubated project.
http://people.apache.org/dist/incubator/jackrabbit/0.9-incubating/
Here's what we should do:
- put "incubating" in the version (not the group or artifact ID). This
poses the least technical limitations to the project.
- not publish in the main repository (that's what we do with other
distributions). However, I don't think we necessarily need multiple
other repositories - we just need 'sanctioned' and 'unsanctioned',
which could well include beta/RC builds for other projects.
- should someone ask to upload to Ibiblio separately, it can be done.
Incubating is still in the version, the important thing is that it's
not represented in the official ASF repo.
Sound ok?
- Brett
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Re: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Saturday 17 June 2006 15:24, Brett Porter wrote:
> Why would a project cut another release just because they've
> graduated? I can't think of a particular reason - is there something
> you had in mind that changes?
That it is now a Apache project and all that comes with that.
Changing the label on the web page is not sufficient, as all artifacts contain
the "Incubating" disclaimer.
Cheers
Niclas
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Re: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com>.
Hi Noel,
I'm expecting you'll probably respond to my other mail too, but I just
wanted to pick up on this point.
On 17/06/06, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Distinguishing between what was put out during Incubation and what was put
> out post-Incubation is a good thing.
Why would a project cut another release just because they've
graduated? I can't think of a particular reason - is there something
you had in mind that changes?
As I understand it, no releases can happen until the IP is cleared, so
what we're left with for incubator releases are projects that haven't
yet proven to have a viable, sustainable community - something that
doesn't seem at all to have a bearing on the person receiving the
code.
Just trying to understand what problem is being solved here - I'm a
bit lost in all the solutions :)
- Brett
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Re: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Hiram Chirino wrote:
>
>
>> As I see it, it comes down to a choice of having the user configure
>> his pom with either
>>
>
>
>> 1) an artifact id or group id or version id that
>> includes "incubator" in it.
>> or
>> 2) a repository id that include "incubator" in it.
>>
>
> Or, as I see it, both. Since the artifacts are not captive to the
> repository, they should carry their own label, too.
>
> This is not a hardship for projects. As you note, #1 is what projects
> already do today, and once you've setup the build script properly, it is a
> done deal. And, yes, consistency in placement would be nice. We'll try to
> help that out with some project templates for Maven and Ant.
>
> The idea that having a separate Incubator repository could reduce work
> because "when the podling needs to graduate since dependent projects would
> not need to change artifact ids" is not necessarily a good thing.
> Distinguishing between what was put out during Incubation and what was put
> out post-Incubation is a good thing.
>
Distinguishing these artifacts is a good thing. I'm not sure that this
mandates a separate incubating maven repo. IIUC, option 1 covers this
nicely if we put the word inclubator in the version number, e.g.
group id: org.apache.yoko
artifact id: yoko-core
version: 1.0-incubator-M1
Just trying to keep things simple.
Regards,
Alan
RE: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Hiram Chirino wrote:
> As I see it, it comes down to a choice of having the user configure
> his pom with either
> 1) an artifact id or group id or version id that
> includes "incubator" in it.
> or
> 2) a repository id that include "incubator" in it.
Or, as I see it, both. Since the artifacts are not captive to the
repository, they should carry their own label, too.
This is not a hardship for projects. As you note, #1 is what projects
already do today, and once you've setup the build script properly, it is a
done deal. And, yes, consistency in placement would be nice. We'll try to
help that out with some project templates for Maven and Ant.
The idea that having a separate Incubator repository could reduce work
because "when the podling needs to graduate since dependent projects would
not need to change artifact ids" is not necessarily a good thing.
Distinguishing between what was put out during Incubation and what was put
out post-Incubation is a good thing.
As I see it, we might have three repositories: ASF artifacts, non-ASF
dependents (i.e., only those dependents that are vetted and used by ASF
projects, and whose license is suitable), and Apache Incubator artifacts.
--- Noel
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Re: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
So as I see it, it comes down to a choice of having the user configure
his pom with either
1) an artifact id or group id or version id that includes "incubator" in it.
or
2) a repository id that include "incubator" in it.
#1 is what most projects do today. It would be nice if they were more
consistent about how they include "incubator" in the artifact id.
If we go with #2 I think most podlings would like it better since they
can then avoid having incubator in the artifact id. This in turn
would mean there is less work when the podling needs to graduate since
dependent projects would not need to change artifact ids.
On 6/16/06, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> The repository folks have thus far created several repositories:
>
> http://www.apache.org/dist/java-repository/
> http://www.apache.org/dist/maven-repository/
> http://people.apache.org/repository/
>
> Other than filenames, which are meaningless when the artifacts are
> transparently downloaded by build tools, the contents of
> http://people.apache.org/repository/ makes no attempt to differentiate
> between artifacts (snapshots or otherwise) for official ASF projects,
> non-ASF projects, and Apache Incubator projects.
>
> The Incubator has consistently established clear guidelines that Incubator
> artifacts are supposed to require a deliberate, intentional, act of
> acceptance on the part of the user. Adding a general ASF repository of
> mixed content does not satisfy that requirement, in my view. I would be
> happier, I suppose, with a separate repository, e.g.,
> http://incubator.apache.org/repository, that clearly indicates the nature of
> its contents, and contains only Incubator artifacts.
>
> Opinions? What do others feel?
>
> I am leaving orthogonal my view that it is entirely irresponsible to
> encourage or even condone the use of automatically downloaded artifacts
> without authenticating the content of those artifacts.
>
> --- Noel
>
> cc: repository@, but discussion to be on general@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Regards,
Hiram
Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
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Re: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com>.
On 17/06/06, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> The repository folks have thus far created several repositories:
>
> http://www.apache.org/dist/java-repository/
> http://www.apache.org/dist/maven-repository/
> http://people.apache.org/repository/
There's also http://people.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository/
So between these that's one official repository for deploying to using
each of maven1 and maven2, and one development repository each. The
development repositories are not mirrored anywhere at present.
I am in favour of using a different repository for incubator
artifacts. In your view, should there be both a development build
repository and a release repository, or should development builds in
the incubator be allowed into the development repositories for the
others?
If this was the case, I'd argue that the group/artifactId should not
include the 'incubating' mark, making it a smoother transition after
graduation.
Given these cases, I am assuming you would not want the incubating
repositories mirrored (ie, users of the release would have to opt-in
to the repository). I also assume you would want those maintaining the
ibiblio repository to reject requests from users to manually upload
any of these releases. Are these correct?
On the non-ASF artifact side, to fill in those on general@incubator as
its been discussed on repository@, I don't believe any of these should
house things not produced by the ASF (though this has always been the
intent, it historically wasn't the case until the snapshot repository
was recently purged). There is some discussion about creating one,
specifically for housing development builds of non-ASF artifacts,
which would be non-mirrored also (obviously).
- Brett
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Re: Incubator artifacts and repositories
Posted by Peter Kriens <Pe...@aQute.biz>.
Over time you will have a lot of repos if you need a repo per
qualifier. Isnt it possible to have meta data for this?
Kind regards,
Peter Kriens
NJB> The repository folks have thus far created several repositories:
NJB> http://www.apache.org/dist/java-repository/
NJB> http://www.apache.org/dist/maven-repository/
NJB> http://people.apache.org/repository/
NJB> Other than filenames, which are meaningless when the artifacts are
NJB> transparently downloaded by build tools, the contents of
NJB> http://people.apache.org/repository/ makes no attempt to differentiate
NJB> between artifacts (snapshots or otherwise) for official ASF projects,
NJB> non-ASF projects, and Apache Incubator projects.
NJB> The Incubator has consistently established clear guidelines that Incubator
NJB> artifacts are supposed to require a deliberate, intentional, act of
NJB> acceptance on the part of the user. Adding a general ASF repository of
NJB> mixed content does not satisfy that requirement, in my view. I would be
NJB> happier, I suppose, with a separate repository, e.g.,
NJB> http://incubator.apache.org/repository, that clearly indicates the nature of
NJB> its contents, and contains only Incubator artifacts.
NJB> Opinions? What do others feel?
NJB> I am leaving orthogonal my view that it is entirely irresponsible to
NJB> encourage or even condone the use of automatically downloaded artifacts
NJB> without authenticating the content of those artifacts.
NJB> --- Noel
NJB> cc: repository@, but discussion to be on general@incubator.apache.org
--
Peter Kriens Tel +33467542167
9C, Avenue St. Drézéry AOL,Yahoo: pkriens
34160 Beaulieu, France ICQ 255570717
Skype pkriens Fax +1 8153772599