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Posted to issues@openoffice.apache.org by bu...@apache.org on 2014/04/10 18:44:19 UTC
[Issue 124654] New: locale setting should be saved with the document
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
Issue ID: 124654
Issue Type: ENHANCEMENT
Summary: locale setting should be saved with the document
Product: Calc
Version: 4.1.0-dev
Hardware: All
OS: All
Status: UNCONFIRMED
Severity: normal
Priority: P3
Component: save-export
Assignee: issues@openoffice.apache.org
Reporter: mroellig.news@gmx.net
Depends on: 124651
For a reason of this issue look at issue 124651 and issue 124644.
If a spreadsheet document is created, the used locale setting should be saved
with the document.
If this locale setting is loaded later with the document, where the application
have an other default locale setting, the same locale formats (Format Cells,
tab Numbers) are available how it was at saving time of the document.
So there is a need that in
Tools → Options… - Language Settings
the Locale settings should have an option
[x] For the current document only
but independent from the similar option as for the language.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #17 from Andreas Säger <vi...@t-online.de> ---
There is a difference betwenn the number format locales "Default - English(US)"
and "English(US)". The latter is explicitly set and should look the same on all
machines. The former is the number format locale which happens to be active
because nobody applied one.
Unless the cell locale is explicitly set, the cell locale is "Default -
English(US)" which means the same language in the same country as set in the
global options.
When someone sends me an English number 10,000 (ten thousands) to me I will see
it as a German 10.000 if my own locale is German. The cell's locale is shown as
"Default - German(Germany)
As far as I understand the matter, some kind of "translation" takes place
formats when the cell's locale is not set explicitly ("Default -
Lang(Country)")
#############################################################################
IF the cell's locale is explicitly set, the cell locale may be "English(US)"
(without "Default -"), which means an explicit language in an explicit country.
When someone sends me an English number 10,000 (ten thousands) to me with an
explicitly set number format locale, I will see it as a English 10,000
regardless of my own locale.
The request is: Drop any "Default - ..." locale setting for the cell's number
format. Apply the currently set number format locale, so that every receipient
of the same document will see the same number format.
This behaviour would be similar to the text language (on the "Font" tab of the
formatting dialog) which is always set one way or the other because any string
of words is supposed to be written in some human language or "[None]" when the
language is abstract or unknown. An English text must not switch to German just
because it is opened on a German system. Contrary to words in human language, a
numeric value remains the same when displayed in some other locale context.
However, human reception may confuse 10,000 with 10.000 in any case. From plain
eyesight you can never know which is which.
The workaround I suggested in comment #9 is: Define an explicit number format
locale for cell style "Default" (root of all the other styles) and save it as a
template. Then you may use this template as your default template, so every new
spreadsheet will have an explicitly set number format locale in each cell.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #7 from mroe <mr...@gmx.net> ---
Created attachment 83171
--> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/attachment.cgi?id=83171&action=edit
differences "wrong" vs. "right" locale settings
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #18 from mroe <mr...@gmx.net> ---
(In reply to Rainer Bielefeld from comment #14)
> Where is the advantage of the requested behavior? Or do I misunderstand
> intention?
2 points:
1) What have me pointed to this issue is, that AOO knows _Standard_ number
formats that are _not_ available for _all_ locale.
Such a number format is
D.MM.YYYY" г." for Bulgarian, but not for English or German. That's the reason
why it is for other languages a user defined format.
(Look https://issues.apache.org/ooo/attachment.cgi?id=83157 from issue 124644.)
If you (as a co-worker) have to create new entries with this number format (or
other bulgarian number formats) in this sheet you have the following options:
a) You can select it directly from the date format list, because it was used
previously in this document. But if not
b) You create your own user defined format
c) You select the right language (resp. locale) for the number format
d) You change the locale setting of AOO.
If AOO could choose the locale setting that was used when the sheet was
created, you need not think about.
2) You create a document and mostly it have descriptions beside any numbers.
So you write:
Versuch durchgeführt am:|Donnerstag, 01.05.2014.
Now you send it to your friend in Ecuador. Make it sense, that he read:
Versuch durchgeführt am:|jueves 1 de mayo de 2014
?
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
Edwin Sharp <el...@apache.org> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |elish@apache.org
--- Comment #1 from Edwin Sharp <el...@apache.org> ---
Created attachment 83168
--> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/attachment.cgi?id=83168&action=edit
screenshot of language settings
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #8 from Edwin Sharp <el...@apache.org> ---
Same here.
So the proposed benefit is the availability of incomprehensible formats?
A correspondence with international contacts is usually based on predefined and
mutually agreed norm via standard operating procedures. Formats other than the
agreed one are unnecessary.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
Edwin Sharp <el...@apache.org> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keywords|needmoreinfo |
--- Comment #4 from Edwin Sharp <el...@apache.org> ---
Regarding the UI, there are existing requests for explicit definition of
decimal separator, date format and time format instead of the implicit
definition enforced by the current locale selection.
Regarding the functionality, loading the original locale setting is IMHO
confusing and unwanted.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #16 from mroe <mr...@gmx.net> ---
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #15)
> AOO has some predefined format codes in the 'Format' list. The set depends
> on the language. When AOO opens a document and does not find a format code
> in the current set of predefined ones, then it puts the format code into the
> category "user-defined". I see no error in that behavior. This behavior
> makes sure, that the cell content is shown identically, independent of the
> settings of a special user.
Because this is an ENHANCEMENT wish that could make international work on the
same document easier, I never stated any error!
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
Edwin Sharp <el...@apache.org> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keywords| |needmoreinfo
--- Comment #2 from Edwin Sharp <el...@apache.org> ---
Is this the request?
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |rb.henschel@t-online.de
--- Comment #15 from Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de> ---
ODF 1.2 has the attributes 'number:language' and 'number:country'. AOO writes
both for a number style, if you select an item other than 'default' from the
'Language' list in tab Number of the cell properties. When you want to force
the style to a specific language/country, then choose the corresponding item
from the list and do not use 'default'. The date value itself is stored in the
unambiguous ISO format. For a currency it writes number:currency as three
character code, e.g. EUR. That is unambiguous too. I see no need to store the
'Local settings'.
AOO has some predefined format codes in the 'Format' list. The set depends on
the language. When AOO opens a document and does not find a format code in the
current set of predefined ones, then it puts the format code into the category
"user-defined". I see no error in that behavior. This behavior makes sure, that
the cell content is shown identically, independent of the settings of a special
user.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #12 from mroe <mr...@gmx.net> ---
(In reply to Rainer Bielefeld from comment #11)
> I think this is not a simple "we need an additional checkbox" problem.
>
> (a) Is it possible to have documents in AOO opened with different locale?
> I don't think so
Yes, AOO creates and open such documents! This is the reason for this issue!
> (c) I can't confirm difference with "User Defined" formatting due to
> Attachment 83171 [details] for Issue 124654
> with 4.1.0 (WIN). I never see "User defined" below formatting string.
Please make the difference between a) and b) in comment 5!
a) Tools → Options… - Language Settings - Locale setting: any different from
Bulgarian
b) Tools → Options… - Language Settings - Locale setting: Bulgarian
Look at
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/attachment.cgi?id=83157
from issue 124644. This file is saved with
> (b) Is the requested "locale in document" part of ODF 1.2 specifications?
> I do not know.
I think there is no need for. Maybe it cold be some day. But till then it is
only a field that AOO reads and other programs can silently drop it. But it
enables AOO to choose the right locale setting for the document.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #14 from Rainer Bielefeld <ra...@bielefeldundbuss.de> ---
I think I have to disagree with the request for some reasons until I will have
understood all aspects of the request.
An example:
With my German AOO with German UI and German menu 'Tools -> Options -> Language
Settings -> Languages - Locale=German' I have 2 cells
10.000|km what for me means ten thousand kilometers.
I send the document with saved 'Tools -> Options -> Language Settings ->
Languages - Locale=German' to a co worker in Ecuador.
He opens the document with saved Tools -> Options -> Language Settings ->
Languages - Locale=German' and sees 2 cells
10.000|km what for him means ten kilometers +- 0m.
Can I expect such a brilliance that he will know that Document comes from
Gerany (what is not visible) and how they use decimal separators here?
I think it would ease co-working if we would keep current behavior so that he
will see
10,000|km
Where is the advantage of the requested behavior? Or do I misunderstand
intention?
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
mroe <mr...@gmx.net> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attachment #83168|0 |1
is obsolete| |
--- Comment #3 from mroe <mr...@gmx.net> ---
Created attachment 83170
--> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/attachment.cgi?id=83170&action=edit
mockup for the Language Settings page
@Edwin: No.
I've created a mockup, how the Language Settings page could look. But it shows
only the change in the UI resulted for the enhancement that the settings under
"Default locale settings for documents" should be saved with the document.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #6 from Edwin Sharp <el...@apache.org> ---
I see no difference - both have format code D.MM.YYYY" r."
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #5 from mroe <mr...@gmx.net> ---
(In reply to Edwin Sharp from comment #4)
> Regarding the functionality, loading the original locale setting is IMHO
> confusing and unwanted.
If you don't have any international contact and do you never need to edit
spreadsheets with other locale formats then yours, you'll never need this issue
and perhaps you can't understand it.
Load
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/attachment.cgi?id=83157
look at Format Cells, tab Numbers for cell A3
a) with your locale settings (en)
b) with the original (Bulgarian) locale settings of the document
and find out the difference.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
Rainer Bielefeld <ra...@bielefeldundbuss.de> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keywords| |needhelp
CC| |rainerbielefeld_ooo_qa@biel
| |efeldundbuss.de
--- Comment #11 from Rainer Bielefeld <ra...@bielefeldundbuss.de> ---
I think this is not a simple "we need an additional checkbox" problem.
(a) Is it possible to have documents in AOO opened with different locale?
I don't think so
(b) Is the requested "locale in document" part of ODF 1.2 specifications?
I do not know.
(c) I can't confirm difference with "User Defined" formatting due to
Attachment 83171 for Issue 124654
with 4.1.0 (WIN). I never see "User defined" below formatting string.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
Andreas Säger <vi...@t-online.de> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |villeroy@t-online.de
--- Comment #9 from Andreas Säger <vi...@t-online.de> ---
Set the locale of cell style "Standard" explicitly.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #20 from Andreas Säger <vi...@t-online.de> ---
All defaults can be overridden by means of templates and styles e.g. locale of
cell style "Default" in your default spreadsheet template.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
mroe <mr...@gmx.net> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Component|save-export |localedata
Version|4.1.0-dev |4.1.0
Product|Calc |Internationalization
--- Comment #19 from mroe <mr...@gmx.net> ---
(In reply to Andreas Säger from comment #17)
> The workaround I suggested in comment #9 is: Define an explicit number
> format locale for cell style "Default" (root of all the other styles) and
> save it as a template. Then you may use this template as your default
> template, so every new spreadsheet will have an explicitly set number format
> locale in each cell.
Thank you. This workaround does that what this issue advise. But the user must
explicitly choose is. With the wish of this issue this would be set without any
user interaction.
And because of the fact, that it is not only related to spreadsheets as well as
it touches letters/text documents with date/number fields, I change the
Product.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #10 from mroe <mr...@gmx.net> ---
(In reply to Edwin Sharp from comment #8)
> A correspondence with international contacts is usually based on predefined
> and mutually agreed norm via standard operating procedures. Formats other
> than the agreed one are unnecessary.
This is the best explanatory statement to confirm this issue!
Thank you! My English isn't so good.
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[Issue 124654] locale setting should be saved with the document
Posted by bu...@apache.org.
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124654
--- Comment #13 from Rainer Bielefeld <ra...@bielefeldundbuss.de> ---
(In reply to mroe from comment #12)
Of course I know the screenshots from comment 5, that exactly was the
difference I wanted to reproduce with gambling cell/locale and AOO locale. It's
strange, I now after a PC reboot since comment 11 I can reproduce the
difference ("user defined ..."). Additional issue? Something with my
installation? Still testing!
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