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Posted to dev@tapestry.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2005/10/16 17:24:24 UTC
Getting to 4.0 end game
I believe we are getting very close to the 4.0 end game.
I still have a few bugs I really want to fix, and some more
documentation and tutorials that *should* get written. But nothing
that can't wait for a 4.0.1 bug fix release or a 4.1 release.
I would encourage developers to take a look at the open bug list and
see what's pending.
How many people are using 4.0 in a production environment right now?
Or ramping up to a production environment?
My biggest concern is runtime performance. My gut feeling is that
outside of startup time, 4.0 is equal to or better performing than
3.0. I've been troubled by some concerns on the web about memory
leeks possibly related to Javassist class creation (but I suspect
those people are running with caching disabled and just don't know it,
or won't admit it).
I'm hoping that beta-12 will be the last beta, and we can call a vote
for a release candidate after that. However, release working software
is more important than keeping to a schedule.
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
Posted by "Joachim (PROGS)" <jo...@progs.be>.
p green wrote:
> The issue of memory leaks. I was definitely running on a system with
> caching enabled. Unless there is another way to disable the cache other
> than using the argument:
>
> -Dorg.apache.tapestry.disable-caching=true
When you use this setting, you disable caching. The default tapestry
behaviour is to have caching enabled.
Joachim
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Re: Getting to 4.0 end game (Performance Tools)
Posted by Adam Greene <ag...@professionalopensource.ca>.
Eclipse Foundation offers a free profiler, not sure all that it does (have
only had a chance to look at it quickly). It is the TPTP project (Test and
PerformanceTools Platform). http://www.eclipse.org/tptp/
NetBeans offers one as well. http://profiler.netbeans.org/
Also AppPerfect Standard Edition http://www.appperfect.com
So don't say you don't have one now :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "p green" <pg...@dsl.pipex.com>
To: "Tapestry development" <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:49 AM
Subject: Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
> The issue of memory leaks. I was definitely running on a system with
> caching enabled. Unless there is another way to disable the cache
> other than using the argument:
>
> -Dorg.apache.tapestry.disable-caching=true
>
> I do not mind admitting to stupid mistakes (we all make them) but I
> am sure the cache was enabled on two non-development systems which
> failed with OutOfMemoryError's. Both were running tomcat 5.0 one was
> a Linux system and the other was a Windows XP system.
>
> They failed when rendering the same page repeatedly with the data.
> This page was very large (i.e. 5000 rows of 9 columns). I changed
> this page to only render a maximum of 100 rows.
>
> I have not done any further tests and never ran a profiler over the
> code (because I do not have one).
>
> I do not want to send you on a wild goose chase but I still think
> there could still be an issue here.
>
> Paul
>
> On 16 Oct 2005, at 16:24, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>
>> I believe we are getting very close to the 4.0 end game.
>>
>> I still have a few bugs I really want to fix, and some more
>> documentation and tutorials that *should* get written. But nothing
>> that can't wait for a 4.0.1 bug fix release or a 4.1 release.
>>
>> I would encourage developers to take a look at the open bug list and
>> see what's pending.
>>
>> How many people are using 4.0 in a production environment right now?
>> Or ramping up to a production environment?
>>
>> My biggest concern is runtime performance. My gut feeling is that
>> outside of startup time, 4.0 is equal to or better performing than
>> 3.0. I've been troubled by some concerns on the web about memory
>> leeks possibly related to Javassist class creation (but I suspect
>> those people are running with caching disabled and just don't know it,
>> or won't admit it).
>>
>> I'm hoping that beta-12 will be the last beta, and we can call a vote
>> for a release candidate after that. However, release working software
>> is more important than keeping to a schedule.
>>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
>> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
>> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>>
>> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
>> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
Posted by p green <pg...@dsl.pipex.com>.
The issue of memory leaks. I was definitely running on a system with
caching enabled. Unless there is another way to disable the cache
other than using the argument:
-Dorg.apache.tapestry.disable-caching=true
I do not mind admitting to stupid mistakes (we all make them) but I
am sure the cache was enabled on two non-development systems which
failed with OutOfMemoryError's. Both were running tomcat 5.0 one was
a Linux system and the other was a Windows XP system.
They failed when rendering the same page repeatedly with the data.
This page was very large (i.e. 5000 rows of 9 columns). I changed
this page to only render a maximum of 100 rows.
I have not done any further tests and never ran a profiler over the
code (because I do not have one).
I do not want to send you on a wild goose chase but I still think
there could still be an issue here.
Paul
On 16 Oct 2005, at 16:24, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> I believe we are getting very close to the 4.0 end game.
>
> I still have a few bugs I really want to fix, and some more
> documentation and tutorials that *should* get written. But nothing
> that can't wait for a 4.0.1 bug fix release or a 4.1 release.
>
> I would encourage developers to take a look at the open bug list and
> see what's pending.
>
> How many people are using 4.0 in a production environment right now?
> Or ramping up to a production environment?
>
> My biggest concern is runtime performance. My gut feeling is that
> outside of startup time, 4.0 is equal to or better performing than
> 3.0. I've been troubled by some concerns on the web about memory
> leeks possibly related to Javassist class creation (but I suspect
> those people are running with caching disabled and just don't know it,
> or won't admit it).
>
> I'm hoping that beta-12 will be the last beta, and we can call a vote
> for a release candidate after that. However, release working software
> is more important than keeping to a schedule.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
Posted by Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi <le...@dtqsoftware.com>.
Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>How many people are using 4.0 in a production environment right now?
>Or ramping up to a production environment?
>
>
I'm ramping up to production environment with Tap 4. There are several
blocker issues down there, or at least very annoying ones. I provided
some insight on some of them, but I haven't seen any answers on that.
>My biggest concern is runtime performance. My gut feeling is that
>outside of startup time, 4.0 is equal to or better performing than
>3.0. I've been troubled by some concerns on the web about memory
>leeks possibly related to Javassist class creation (but I suspect
>those people are running with caching disabled and just don't know it,
>or won't admit it).
>
>
Memory leaks are VERY bad code smells, IMO, wheter is development or
production... We don't know if those 'caching enabled only' issues can
arise in production servers after some months of intense workload.
--
Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi
Director Técnico
DTQ Software
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Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
They should be, but it's not urgent.
On 10/17/05, Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr> wrote:
> Also,
> org/apache/tapestry/Framework.library
> org/apache/tapestry/pages/StaleLink.page
> org/apache/tapestry/pages/StaleSession.page
> , the wml components and many contrib components
> still use the 3.0 spec.
>
> Would they need to get changed to 4.0 (for completeness) ?
>
> Andreas Andreou wrote:
>
> >
> > Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> >
> >> I believe we are getting very close to the 4.0 end game.
> >>
> >> I still have a few bugs I really want to fix,
> >
> > I don't know why the Checkbox component is still missing its
> > displayName property
> > http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY-652
> >
> >> and some more
> >> documentation and tutorials that *should* get written.
> >
> > , and there are also some corrections to the docs that need to be
> > included, i.e.
> > http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY-693
> > http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY-459
> >
> >> But nothing
> >> that can't wait for a 4.0.1 bug fix release or a 4.1 release.
> >>
> >> I would encourage developers to take a look at the open bug list and
> >> see what's pending.
> >>
> >> How many people are using 4.0 in a production environment right now?
> >> Or ramping up to a production environment?
> >>
> >> My biggest concern is runtime performance. My gut feeling is that
> >> outside of startup time, 4.0 is equal to or better performing than
> >> 3.0.
> >
> > Not that I've run any specific benchmark, but it's also my feeling that
> > the runtime performance has improved.
> >
> >> I've been troubled by some concerns on the web about memory
> >> leeks possibly related to Javassist class creation (but I suspect
> >> those people are running with caching disabled and just don't know it,
> >> or won't admit it).
> >>
> >>
> > I've had those "problems" only when caching was disabled.
> >
> >> I'm hoping that beta-12 will be the last beta, and we can call a vote
> >> for a release candidate after that. However, release working software
> >> is more important than keeping to a schedule.
> >>
> >>
> > We're all looking forward to an RC release.
> > Well done!!!
> >
> >> --
> >> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> >> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> >> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> >> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> >>
> >> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> >> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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>
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr>.
Also,
org/apache/tapestry/Framework.library
org/apache/tapestry/pages/StaleLink.page
org/apache/tapestry/pages/StaleSession.page
, the wml components and many contrib components
still use the 3.0 spec.
Would they need to get changed to 4.0 (for completeness) ?
Andreas Andreou wrote:
>
> Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>
>> I believe we are getting very close to the 4.0 end game.
>>
>> I still have a few bugs I really want to fix,
>
> I don't know why the Checkbox component is still missing its
> displayName property
> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY-652
>
>> and some more
>> documentation and tutorials that *should* get written.
>
> , and there are also some corrections to the docs that need to be
> included, i.e.
> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY-693
> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY-459
>
>> But nothing
>> that can't wait for a 4.0.1 bug fix release or a 4.1 release.
>>
>> I would encourage developers to take a look at the open bug list and
>> see what's pending.
>>
>> How many people are using 4.0 in a production environment right now?
>> Or ramping up to a production environment?
>>
>> My biggest concern is runtime performance. My gut feeling is that
>> outside of startup time, 4.0 is equal to or better performing than
>> 3.0.
>
> Not that I've run any specific benchmark, but it's also my feeling that
> the runtime performance has improved.
>
>> I've been troubled by some concerns on the web about memory
>> leeks possibly related to Javassist class creation (but I suspect
>> those people are running with caching disabled and just don't know it,
>> or won't admit it).
>>
>>
> I've had those "problems" only when caching was disabled.
>
>> I'm hoping that beta-12 will be the last beta, and we can call a vote
>> for a release candidate after that. However, release working software
>> is more important than keeping to a schedule.
>>
>>
> We're all looking forward to an RC release.
> Well done!!!
>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
>> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
>> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>>
>> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
>> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr>.
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>I believe we are getting very close to the 4.0 end game.
>
>I still have a few bugs I really want to fix,
>
I don't know why the Checkbox component is still missing its displayName
property
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY-652
>and some more
>documentation and tutorials that *should* get written.
>
, and there are also some corrections to the docs that need to be
included, i.e.
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY-693
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY-459
> But nothing
>that can't wait for a 4.0.1 bug fix release or a 4.1 release.
>
>I would encourage developers to take a look at the open bug list and
>see what's pending.
>
>How many people are using 4.0 in a production environment right now?
>Or ramping up to a production environment?
>
>My biggest concern is runtime performance. My gut feeling is that
>outside of startup time, 4.0 is equal to or better performing than
>3.0.
>
Not that I've run any specific benchmark, but it's also my feeling that
the runtime performance has improved.
> I've been troubled by some concerns on the web about memory
>leeks possibly related to Javassist class creation (but I suspect
>those people are running with caching disabled and just don't know it,
>or won't admit it).
>
>
I've had those "problems" only when caching was disabled.
>I'm hoping that beta-12 will be the last beta, and we can call a vote
>for a release candidate after that. However, release working software
>is more important than keeping to a schedule.
>
>
We're all looking forward to an RC release.
Well done!!!
>--
>Howard M. Lewis Ship
>Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
>Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
>Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>
>Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
>and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
Posted by Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com>.
On 10/17/05, Mikaël Cluseau <nw...@nwrk.dyndns.org> wrote:
> Also, we are working on XUL support for Tapestry (4.0), we'll release
> that open-sourced (GPL? LGPL? ASL? BSD?) for sure ;) We hope that it
> will help Tapestry in reaching the rich-web-client bright futur ;)
Very interesting to hear. I'll look for your news.
--
Massimo
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Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
Posted by Mikaël Cluseau <nw...@nwrk.dyndns.org>.
We use Tapestry in prod since alpha-3... we use lots of memory because
of big database caches, big it doesn't seems that Tapestry either had
memory leak. As I said a long time ago, the transition was not painful,
except for services, which needed lots of rewrite but... that's so much
cleaner than before ;)
We really enjoy Tapestry 4.0, event from those early alphas, so *real*
*big* thanks for all the work done by the community.
Also, we are working on XUL support for Tapestry (4.0), we'll release
that open-sourced (GPL? LGPL? ASL? BSD?) for sure ;) We hope that it
will help Tapestry in reaching the rich-web-client bright futur ;)
Mikael.
Le dimanche 16 octobre 2005 à 11:24 -0400, Howard Lewis Ship a écrit :
> I believe we are getting very close to the 4.0 end game.
>
> I still have a few bugs I really want to fix, and some more
> documentation and tutorials that *should* get written. But nothing
> that can't wait for a 4.0.1 bug fix release or a 4.1 release.
>
> I would encourage developers to take a look at the open bug list and
> see what's pending.
>
> How many people are using 4.0 in a production environment right now?
> Or ramping up to a production environment?
>
> My biggest concern is runtime performance. My gut feeling is that
> outside of startup time, 4.0 is equal to or better performing than
> 3.0. I've been troubled by some concerns on the web about memory
> leeks possibly related to Javassist class creation (but I suspect
> those people are running with caching disabled and just don't know it,
> or won't admit it).
>
> I'm hoping that beta-12 will be the last beta, and we can call a vote
> for a release candidate after that. However, release working software
> is more important than keeping to a schedule.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Re: Getting to 4.0 end game
Posted by Kevin Menard <km...@servprise.com>.
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:24:24 -0400, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I would encourage developers to take a look at the open bug list and
> see what's pending.
Would it be best for us to vote on issues that we really want to see
fixed? For me, there are some bugs that I'd really like to see fixed in
4.0. I'm sure others feel the same. Unfortunately, I still have not been
able to build Tapestry on MacOS X, making contributions a bit hard.
>
> How many people are using 4.0 in a production environment right now?
> Or ramping up to a production environment?
I've actually just recently deployed our new public Web site using
Tapestry 4. So far, no real problems. Just to clarify a bit, while there
are some bugs I'd really like to see fixed in 4.0, I do have current
workarounds to them. So, they haven't been blockers for us, but some have
been annoying, making the dev cycle longer than necessary.
All in all though, I'm very happy with the current state of Tapestry 4.
It is a remarkable improvement over Tapestry 3 and I suspect that had we
written the site in Tapestry 3, we'd still be a month off from deploying
anyway.
--
Kevin
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