Native JVM Continuations

[Tony Collen <co...@umn.edu>]

James Strachan writes [1]:

"Spent a great afternoon & evening with John Rose from Sun (compiler & 
VM team), who's on the Groovy JSR - we've managed to figure out many 
of the gremlins in the language. Plus I learnt quite a bit about the 
JVM. e.g. it might not be that hard to implement continuations at the 
JVM level! Apparently the JVM already does a kind of continuation 
internally for optimising bytecode - so if you want native 
continuations, hassle the good folks at Sun & raise some bug reports, 
maybe we can persuade them to sneak it into 1.6 :). Native Java 
continuations would totally rock - and avoid all that inefficient 
bytecode swizzling we'd have to do to implement continuations on top 
of the JVM."

[1] http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/2004/07/07.html#a490

Regards,

Tony

Re: Native JVM Continuations

[Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>]

Tony Collen wrote:

> James Strachan writes [1]:
> 
> "Spent a great afternoon & evening with John Rose from Sun (compiler & 
> VM team), who's on the Groovy JSR - we've managed to figure out many of 
> the gremlins in the language. Plus I learnt quite a bit about the JVM. 
> e.g. it might not be that hard to implement continuations at the JVM 
> level! Apparently the JVM already does a kind of continuation internally 
> for optimising bytecode - so if you want native continuations, hassle 
> the good folks at Sun & raise some bug reports, maybe we can persuade 
> them to sneak it into 1.6 :). Native Java continuations would totally 
> rock - and avoid all that inefficient bytecode swizzling we'd have to do 
> to implement continuations on top of the JVM."

Nice!

Well, I wonder what it will happen to java (or to me!) in the 7 years 
that will take java 1.6 to be widespread enough for us to switch to it.

:-/

-- 
Stefano.

Re: Native JVM Continuations

[Brian McCallister <mc...@forthillcompany.com>]

On Jul 13, 2004, at 12:24 PM, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

>
> if you need more official ASF support, I'll be glad to help with my 
> board hat.
>

We definitely will with the ASF on the JCP executive committee =) As it 
is a JVM change I believe it requires unanimous approval, could be 
wrong, need to read up on JCP bylaws.

-Brian

Re: Native JVM Continuations

[Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>]

Torsten Curdt wrote:

>>> Anyone know anyone (or happen to be someone) who is widely familiar 
>>> with continuations as a language feature, who has spare time (ha!), 
>>> and might be interested in seeing them go native in Java?
>>
>>
>>
>> You might want to ask the guys that have been implementing it in 
>> Cocoon. In strict chronological order: Ovidiu Predescu, Christopher 
>> Oliver, Stephan Michels and Torsten Curdt (sorry if I missed/mispelled 
>> anyone).
> 
> 
> Count me in ...actually I am already collecting information
> in my (as always) little spare time in order to prepare a JSR.
> 
> James should be more familiar with the JSR process since he
> already successfully created the groovy JSR.
> 
> Cool, let's try to push it!

if you need more official ASF support, I'll be glad to help with my 
board hat.

-- 
Stefano.

Re: Native JVM Continuations

[Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org>]

>> Anyone know anyone (or happen to be someone) who is widely familiar 
>> with continuations as a language feature, who has spare time (ha!), 
>> and might be interested in seeing them go native in Java?
> 
> 
> You might want to ask the guys that have been implementing it in Cocoon. 
> In strict chronological order: Ovidiu Predescu, Christopher Oliver, 
> Stephan Michels and Torsten Curdt (sorry if I missed/mispelled anyone).

Count me in ...actually I am already collecting information
in my (as always) little spare time in order to prepare a JSR.

James should be more familiar with the JSR process since he
already successfully created the groovy JSR.

Cool, let's try to push it!

cheers
--
Torsten

Re: Native JVM Continuations

[Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>]

On Jul 13, 2004, at 4:34 PM, Brian McCallister wrote:
> Anyone know anyone (or happen to be someone) who is widely familiar 
> with continuations as a language feature, who has spare time (ha!), 
> and might be interested in seeing them go native in Java?

You might want to ask the guys that have been implementing it in 
Cocoon. In strict chronological order: Ovidiu Predescu, Christopher 
Oliver, Stephan Michels and Torsten Curdt (sorry if I missed/mispelled 
anyone).

Ciao,
-- 
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. -  http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance: http://www.orixo.com

Re: Native JVM Continuations

[Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>]

On the same topic, as I'm on the Java Platform "umbrella" JSR, please 
let me know if I need to post some message to the EG.

	Pier

On 13 Jul 2004, at 15:34, Brian McCallister wrote:

> Speaking of this, if anyone wants to see this happen in 
> j[s]dk[1.6|6.0|6.1] we need a JSR formed fairly soon.
>
> I have pinged Geert Bevin (RIFE) and James Strachan and both are 
> willing to help on an EG, but to my knowledge neither is a real expert 
> on the subject. To do this right would require finding the real 
> experts and requirements =)
>
> Anyone know anyone (or happen to be someone) who is widely familiar 
> with continuations as a language feature, who has spare time (ha!), 
> and might be interested in seeing them go native in Java?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> -Brian
>
> On Jul 7, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Tony Collen wrote:
>
>> James Strachan writes [1]:
>>
>> "Spent a great afternoon & evening with John Rose from Sun (compiler 
>> & VM team), who's on the Groovy JSR - we've managed to figure out 
>> many of the gremlins in the language. Plus I learnt quite a bit about 
>> the JVM. e.g. it might not be that hard to implement continuations at 
>> the JVM level! Apparently the JVM already does a kind of continuation 
>> internally for optimising bytecode - so if you want native 
>> continuations, hassle the good folks at Sun & raise some bug reports, 
>> maybe we can persuade them to sneak it into 1.6 :). Native Java 
>> continuations would totally rock - and avoid all that inefficient 
>> bytecode swizzling we'd have to do to implement continuations on top 
>> of the JVM."
>>
>> [1] http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/2004/07/07.html#a490
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tony
>>
>
>
>

Re: Native JVM Continuations

[Brian McCallister <mc...@forthillcompany.com>]

Speaking of this, if anyone wants to see this happen in 
j[s]dk[1.6|6.0|6.1] we need a JSR formed fairly soon.

I have pinged Geert Bevin (RIFE) and James Strachan and both are 
willing to help on an EG, but to my knowledge neither is a real expert 
on the subject. To do this right would require finding the real experts 
and requirements =)

Anyone know anyone (or happen to be someone) who is widely familiar 
with continuations as a language feature, who has spare time (ha!), and 
might be interested in seeing them go native in Java?

Thanks in advance,

-Brian

On Jul 7, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Tony Collen wrote:

> James Strachan writes [1]:
>
> "Spent a great afternoon & evening with John Rose from Sun (compiler & 
> VM team), who's on the Groovy JSR - we've managed to figure out many 
> of the gremlins in the language. Plus I learnt quite a bit about the 
> JVM. e.g. it might not be that hard to implement continuations at the 
> JVM level! Apparently the JVM already does a kind of continuation 
> internally for optimising bytecode - so if you want native 
> continuations, hassle the good folks at Sun & raise some bug reports, 
> maybe we can persuade them to sneak it into 1.6 :). Native Java 
> continuations would totally rock - and avoid all that inefficient 
> bytecode swizzling we'd have to do to implement continuations on top 
> of the JVM."
>
> [1] http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/2004/07/07.html#a490
>
> Regards,
>
> Tony
>

Re: Native JVM Continuations

[Jorg Heymans <jh...@domek.be>]

> 
> 
> 
> Java 1.6... that will be in 2007 :-(

surely you meant Java 6.1 here ;)


Jorg

Re: Native JVM Continuations

[Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>]

Tony Collen wrote:

> James Strachan writes [1]:
>
> "Spent a great afternoon & evening with John Rose from Sun (compiler & 
> VM team), who's on the Groovy JSR - we've managed to figure out many 
> of the gremlins in the language. Plus I learnt quite a bit about the 
> JVM. e.g. it might not be that hard to implement continuations at the 
> JVM level! Apparently the JVM already does a kind of continuation 
> internally for optimising bytecode - so if you want native 
> continuations, hassle the good folks at Sun & raise some bug reports, 
> maybe we can persuade them to sneak it into 1.6 :). Native Java 
> continuations would totally rock - and avoid all that inefficient 
> bytecode swizzling we'd have to do to implement continuations on top 
> of the JVM."
>
> [1] http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/2004/07/07.html#a490


Java 1.6... that will be in 2007 :-(

We'd better work with James on that "inefficient bytecode swizzling" and 
submit a JSR to standardize our API in 1.6...

Sylvain

-- 
Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain           http://www.anyware-tech.com
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