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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org> on 2007/07/11 08:03:27 UTC
[Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
The Apache Forrest project needs to decide the future
of "forrestdoc": trunk/whiteboard/forrestdoc/
When the Apache Jakarta Alexandria project became defunct,
this code was saved and given a home at Apache Forrest.
After some initial work, no development was done in the
subsequent years. There was some hope that it would be
turned into a Forrest plugin, but that has not eventuated.
The code is not used at all by 'forrest'.
See background http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
Recently the Apache Maven project expressed some interest [2].
There were some murmurs by two very busy Forrest developers.
However this did not spur the Forrest project to explore
what to do with the code.
It has no community built around it at Forrest.
I am concerned that the Forrest project is too thin to be
able to support this tool. We need to focus on our core
and our plugins.
Today Vincent provided some patches.
I am very concerned that this makes an obscure part of
Forrest whiteboard available in the Maven repositories,
while Forrest has no other presence there. This could
cause confusion for our main users.
I propose that Forrest ask the Maven project to take the
code as-is over to Maven JXR, then split it up as they see fit.
What do other Forrest developers think?
[1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
[2] Re: Forrestdoc and Maven JXR
http://marc.info/?t=118096009200007
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Cyriaque Dupoirieux <Cy...@pcotech.fr>.
I didn't even know this tool existed.
So I can't help on this point and let you devide what is best for the
project...
Salutations,
Cyriaque,
le 11/07/2007 08:03 David Crossley a écrit :
> The Apache Forrest project needs to decide the future
> of "forrestdoc": trunk/whiteboard/forrestdoc/
>
> When the Apache Jakarta Alexandria project became defunct,
> this code was saved and given a home at Apache Forrest.
> After some initial work, no development was done in the
> subsequent years. There was some hope that it would be
> turned into a Forrest plugin, but that has not eventuated.
> The code is not used at all by 'forrest'.
>
> See background http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
>
> Recently the Apache Maven project expressed some interest [2].
> There were some murmurs by two very busy Forrest developers.
> However this did not spur the Forrest project to explore
> what to do with the code.
>
> It has no community built around it at Forrest.
>
> I am concerned that the Forrest project is too thin to be
> able to support this tool. We need to focus on our core
> and our plugins.
>
> Today Vincent provided some patches.
>
> I am very concerned that this makes an obscure part of
> Forrest whiteboard available in the Maven repositories,
> while Forrest has no other presence there. This could
> cause confusion for our main users.
>
> I propose that Forrest ask the Maven project to take the
> code as-is over to Maven JXR, then split it up as they see fit.
>
> What do other Forrest developers think?
>
> [1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
>
> [2] Re: Forrestdoc and Maven JXR
> http://marc.info/?t=118096009200007
>
>
>
>
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
David Crossley escribió:
> I propose that Forrest ask the Maven project to take the
> code as-is over to Maven JXR, then split it up as they see fit.
>
> What do other Forrest developers think?
>
+1
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> Vincent Siveton wrote:
> > David Crossley wrote:
> >>
> >>Please Apache Maven PMC, tell us when you have done
> >>the 'svn copy' and we will remove it from ours.
> >
> >Done with r574907
> >http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=574907&view=rev
> >
> >You could delete the forrest/trunk/whiteboard/forrestdoc/ project or
> >add a README.TXT for the log with the new location.
>
> I've deleted the directory, the log message points to Maven.
>
> >Be sure that the Maven Team will take care of the code :)
>
> It's nice to see it finally find a loving home. Thanks for your patience.
Thanks to everyone involved in this, remembering way back to
beyond Nicola Ken saving it after Alexandria. His email signature
rings loud. Those who don't know what i am talking about,
grep the net for him and "the code remains". [*]
The handover to Maven has been a beaut collaboration
and left a solid trail.
> >>Note for the archives: See https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
> >
> >I moved several Forrest issues on our jira (MSANDBOX-33, 34, 35, 36)
> >and deleted for you some Forrest issues as won't fix (FOR-1033, 1030,
> >1028, 1027, 1024, 1023)
> >You need to delete FOR-820.
>
> Thanks for the cleanup, I closed FOR-820 with a won't fix and removed
> the Tools: Forrestdoc component in JIRA. All issues that were in that
> component are now closed and have been moved to the "other" component.
I removed it from our Apache Gump descriptor at r575120.
---oOo---
Wow, i have just gotta share this with you. I tried that search
above for NKB's email sig, with Google. Now if i had used
"just code remains" (which are his actual words) i get many thousands.
Using my guess above "the code remains" i get just one totally relevant
thread:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/forrest-dev/200210.mbox/%3C3DBE9969.5060300@apache.org%3E
[RT] Move part of Alexandria code to Forrest?
Coincidence?
-David
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Vincent Siveton wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> 2007/9/10, David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>:
>> Vincent Siveton wrote:
>>> David Crossley wrote:
>>>>> Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>>>> Gav.... wrote:
>>>>>>> Ok, so we have given plenty more time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking again at the link Vincent gave ,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> shows that Maven are in agreement and happy to take the code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What happens now ?
>>>>>> Thanks for waking this up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess we officially invite Maven to take the code into their SVN,
>>>>>> thank them for taking care of it and remove it from our SVN.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David, is there anything special we need to do?
>>>>> Sorry, i have been busy, and still.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest that one of us composes a list of steps,
>>>>> then contacts Maven.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are some items that i can quickly think of:
>>>>>
>>>>> * A Maven committer does a complete 'svn copy' of
>>>>> everything in forrestdoc. This retains history (and
>>>>> can do subsequent moves/deletes from there).
>>>> Absolutely agree: it is a benefit to be part of ASF community ;)
>>>>
>>>>> * Then a Forrest committer does an 'svn delete' from
>>>>> our SVN forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc
>>>>>
>>>>> * Maven might need to explore what happened with the
>>>>> import of the Vizant code. We haven't really investigated
>>>>> the provenance of any of forrestdoc. There are some recent
>>>>> notes in
>>>>> forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc/src/java/org/apache/forrest/forrestdoc/ant/doc/package.htm
>>>> I am aware :)
>>>> For others, see FOR-1029
>>>>
>>>>> * Need to add comments to the various recent email
>>>>> threads to provide cross-references for the archives
>>>>> and mention the issue number.
>>>> I will also add that Forrest Team needs to remove "Tool: Forrestdoc"
>>>> component in jira.
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Another thing is that Forrest need to remove the "forrestdoc"
>> entry from our Gump descriptor.
>>
>>>> So, waiting for the green light to go ahead.
>> Really sorry that the Forrest PMC has taken so long
>> to finalise this.
>>
>> Please Apache Maven PMC, tell us when you have done
>> the 'svn copy' and we will remove it from ours.
>
> Done with r574907
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=574907&view=rev
>
> You could delete the forrest/trunk/whiteboard/forrestdoc/ project or
> add a README.TXT for the log with the new location.
I've deleted the directory, the log message points to Maven.
>
> Be sure that the Maven Team will take care of the code :)
It's nice to see it finally find a loving home. Thanks for your patience.
>> Note for the archives: See https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
>
> I moved several Forrest issues on our jira (MSANDBOX-33, 34, 35, 36)
> and deleted for you some Forrest issues as won't fix (FOR-1033, 1030,
> 1028, 1027, 1024, 1023)
> You need to delete FOR-820.
Thanks for the cleanup, I closed FOR-820 with a won't fix and removed
the Tools: Forrestdoc component in JIRA. All issues that were in that
component are now closed and have been moved to the "other" component.
Ross
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Vincent Siveton <vi...@gmail.com>.
Hi David,
2007/9/10, David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>:
> Vincent Siveton wrote:
> > David Crossley wrote:
> > >> Ross Gardler wrote:
> > >> > Gav.... wrote:
> > >> > >Ok, so we have given plenty more time.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Looking again at the link Vincent gave ,
> > >> > >
> > >> > >http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
> > >> > >
> > >> > >shows that Maven are in agreement and happy to take the code.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >What happens now ?
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks for waking this up.
> > >> >
> > >> > I guess we officially invite Maven to take the code into their SVN,
> > >> > thank them for taking care of it and remove it from our SVN.
> > >> >
> > >> > David, is there anything special we need to do?
> > >>
> > >> Sorry, i have been busy, and still.
> > >>
> > >> I suggest that one of us composes a list of steps,
> > >> then contacts Maven.
> > >>
> > >> Here are some items that i can quickly think of:
> > >>
> > >> * A Maven committer does a complete 'svn copy' of
> > >> everything in forrestdoc. This retains history (and
> > >> can do subsequent moves/deletes from there).
> > >
> > > Absolutely agree: it is a benefit to be part of ASF community ;)
> > >
> > >> * Then a Forrest committer does an 'svn delete' from
> > >> our SVN forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc
> > >>
> > >> * Maven might need to explore what happened with the
> > >> import of the Vizant code. We haven't really investigated
> > >> the provenance of any of forrestdoc. There are some recent
> > >> notes in
> > >> forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc/src/java/org/apache/forrest/forrestdoc/ant/doc/package.htm
> > >
> > > I am aware :)
> > > For others, see FOR-1029
> > >
> > >> * Need to add comments to the various recent email
> > >> threads to provide cross-references for the archives
> > >> and mention the issue number.
> > >
> > > I will also add that Forrest Team needs to remove "Tool: Forrestdoc"
> > > component in jira.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Another thing is that Forrest need to remove the "forrestdoc"
> entry from our Gump descriptor.
>
> > > So, waiting for the green light to go ahead.
>
> Really sorry that the Forrest PMC has taken so long
> to finalise this.
>
> Please Apache Maven PMC, tell us when you have done
> the 'svn copy' and we will remove it from ours.
Done with r574907
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=574907&view=rev
You could delete the forrest/trunk/whiteboard/forrestdoc/ project or
add a README.TXT for the log with the new location.
Be sure that the Maven Team will take care of the code :)
> Note for the archives: See https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
I moved several Forrest issues on our jira (MSANDBOX-33, 34, 35, 36)
and deleted for you some Forrest issues as won't fix (FOR-1033, 1030,
1028, 1027, 1024, 1023)
You need to delete FOR-820.
Cheers,
Vincent
>
> -David
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Vincent Siveton <vi...@gmail.com>.
Hi David,
2007/9/10, David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>:
> Vincent Siveton wrote:
> > David Crossley wrote:
> > >> Ross Gardler wrote:
> > >> > Gav.... wrote:
> > >> > >Ok, so we have given plenty more time.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Looking again at the link Vincent gave ,
> > >> > >
> > >> > >http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
> > >> > >
> > >> > >shows that Maven are in agreement and happy to take the code.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >What happens now ?
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks for waking this up.
> > >> >
> > >> > I guess we officially invite Maven to take the code into their SVN,
> > >> > thank them for taking care of it and remove it from our SVN.
> > >> >
> > >> > David, is there anything special we need to do?
> > >>
> > >> Sorry, i have been busy, and still.
> > >>
> > >> I suggest that one of us composes a list of steps,
> > >> then contacts Maven.
> > >>
> > >> Here are some items that i can quickly think of:
> > >>
> > >> * A Maven committer does a complete 'svn copy' of
> > >> everything in forrestdoc. This retains history (and
> > >> can do subsequent moves/deletes from there).
> > >
> > > Absolutely agree: it is a benefit to be part of ASF community ;)
> > >
> > >> * Then a Forrest committer does an 'svn delete' from
> > >> our SVN forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc
> > >>
> > >> * Maven might need to explore what happened with the
> > >> import of the Vizant code. We haven't really investigated
> > >> the provenance of any of forrestdoc. There are some recent
> > >> notes in
> > >> forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc/src/java/org/apache/forrest/forrestdoc/ant/doc/package.htm
> > >
> > > I am aware :)
> > > For others, see FOR-1029
> > >
> > >> * Need to add comments to the various recent email
> > >> threads to provide cross-references for the archives
> > >> and mention the issue number.
> > >
> > > I will also add that Forrest Team needs to remove "Tool: Forrestdoc"
> > > component in jira.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Another thing is that Forrest need to remove the "forrestdoc"
> entry from our Gump descriptor.
>
> > > So, waiting for the green light to go ahead.
>
> Really sorry that the Forrest PMC has taken so long
> to finalise this.
>
> Please Apache Maven PMC, tell us when you have done
> the 'svn copy' and we will remove it from ours.
Done with r574907
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=574907&view=rev
You could delete the forrest/trunk/whiteboard/forrestdoc/ project or
add a README.TXT for the log with the new location.
Be sure that the Maven Team will take care of the code :)
> Note for the archives: See https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
I moved several Forrest issues on our jira (MSANDBOX-33, 34, 35, 36)
and deleted for you some Forrest issues as won't fix (FOR-1033, 1030,
1028, 1027, 1024, 1023)
You need to delete FOR-820.
Cheers,
Vincent
>
> -David
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Vincent Siveton wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >> Ross Gardler wrote:
> >> > Gav.... wrote:
> >> > >Ok, so we have given plenty more time.
> >> > >
> >> > >Looking again at the link Vincent gave ,
> >> > >
> >> > >http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
> >> > >
> >> > >shows that Maven are in agreement and happy to take the code.
> >> > >
> >> > >What happens now ?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for waking this up.
> >> >
> >> > I guess we officially invite Maven to take the code into their SVN,
> >> > thank them for taking care of it and remove it from our SVN.
> >> >
> >> > David, is there anything special we need to do?
> >>
> >> Sorry, i have been busy, and still.
> >>
> >> I suggest that one of us composes a list of steps,
> >> then contacts Maven.
> >>
> >> Here are some items that i can quickly think of:
> >>
> >> * A Maven committer does a complete 'svn copy' of
> >> everything in forrestdoc. This retains history (and
> >> can do subsequent moves/deletes from there).
> >
> > Absolutely agree: it is a benefit to be part of ASF community ;)
> >
> >> * Then a Forrest committer does an 'svn delete' from
> >> our SVN forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc
> >>
> >> * Maven might need to explore what happened with the
> >> import of the Vizant code. We haven't really investigated
> >> the provenance of any of forrestdoc. There are some recent
> >> notes in
> >> forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc/src/java/org/apache/forrest/forrestdoc/ant/doc/package.htm
> >
> > I am aware :)
> > For others, see FOR-1029
> >
> >> * Need to add comments to the various recent email
> >> threads to provide cross-references for the archives
> >> and mention the issue number.
> >
> > I will also add that Forrest Team needs to remove "Tool: Forrestdoc"
> > component in jira.
Thanks.
Another thing is that Forrest need to remove the "forrestdoc"
entry from our Gump descriptor.
> > So, waiting for the green light to go ahead.
Really sorry that the Forrest PMC has taken so long
to finalise this.
Please Apache Maven PMC, tell us when you have done
the 'svn copy' and we will remove it from ours.
Note for the archives: See https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
-David
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Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Vincent Siveton wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >> Ross Gardler wrote:
> >> > Gav.... wrote:
> >> > >Ok, so we have given plenty more time.
> >> > >
> >> > >Looking again at the link Vincent gave ,
> >> > >
> >> > >http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
> >> > >
> >> > >shows that Maven are in agreement and happy to take the code.
> >> > >
> >> > >What happens now ?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for waking this up.
> >> >
> >> > I guess we officially invite Maven to take the code into their SVN,
> >> > thank them for taking care of it and remove it from our SVN.
> >> >
> >> > David, is there anything special we need to do?
> >>
> >> Sorry, i have been busy, and still.
> >>
> >> I suggest that one of us composes a list of steps,
> >> then contacts Maven.
> >>
> >> Here are some items that i can quickly think of:
> >>
> >> * A Maven committer does a complete 'svn copy' of
> >> everything in forrestdoc. This retains history (and
> >> can do subsequent moves/deletes from there).
> >
> > Absolutely agree: it is a benefit to be part of ASF community ;)
> >
> >> * Then a Forrest committer does an 'svn delete' from
> >> our SVN forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc
> >>
> >> * Maven might need to explore what happened with the
> >> import of the Vizant code. We haven't really investigated
> >> the provenance of any of forrestdoc. There are some recent
> >> notes in
> >> forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc/src/java/org/apache/forrest/forrestdoc/ant/doc/package.htm
> >
> > I am aware :)
> > For others, see FOR-1029
> >
> >> * Need to add comments to the various recent email
> >> threads to provide cross-references for the archives
> >> and mention the issue number.
> >
> > I will also add that Forrest Team needs to remove "Tool: Forrestdoc"
> > component in jira.
Thanks.
Another thing is that Forrest need to remove the "forrestdoc"
entry from our Gump descriptor.
> > So, waiting for the green light to go ahead.
Really sorry that the Forrest PMC has taken so long
to finalise this.
Please Apache Maven PMC, tell us when you have done
the 'svn copy' and we will remove it from ours.
Note for the archives: See https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
-David
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Vincent Siveton <vi...@gmail.com>.
>
David Crossley wrote:
>
>> Ross Gardler wrote:
>> > Gav.... wrote:
>> > >Ok, so we have given plenty more time.
>> > >
>> > >Looking again at the link Vincent gave ,
>> > >
>> > >http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
>> > >
>> > >shows that Maven are in agreement and happy to take the code.
>> > >
>> > >What happens now ?
>> >
>> > Thanks for waking this up.
>> >
>> > I guess we officially invite Maven to take the code into their SVN,
>> > thank them for taking care of it and remove it from our SVN.
>> >
>> > David, is there anything special we need to do?
>>
>> Sorry, i have been busy, and still.
>>
>> I suggest that one of us composes a list of steps,
>> then contacts Maven.
>>
>> Here are some items that i can quickly think of:
>>
>> * A Maven committer does a complete 'svn copy' of
>> everything in forrestdoc. This retains history (and
>> can do subsequent moves/deletes from there).
>
> Absolutely agree: it is a benefit to be part of ASF community ;)
>
>> * Then a Forrest committer does an 'svn delete' from
>> our SVN forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc
>>
>> * Maven might need to explore what happened with the
>> import of the Vizant code. We haven't really investigated
>> the provenance of any of forrestdoc. There are some recent
>> notes in
>> forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc/src/java/org/apache/forrest/forrestdoc/ant/doc/package.htm
>
> I am aware :)
> For others, see FOR-1029
>
>> * Need to add comments to the various recent email
>> threads to provide cross-references for the archives
>> and mention the issue number.
>
> I will also add that Forrest Team needs to remove "Tool: Forrestdoc"
> component in jira.
>
> So, waiting for the green light to go ahead.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Vincent
>
>> -David
>>
>>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-Proposal--decide-the-future-of-forrestdoc-tf4060050.html#a12190559
Sent from the Apache Forrest - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> Gav.... wrote:
> >Ok, so we have given plenty more time.
> >
> >Looking again at the link Vincent gave ,
> >
> >http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
> >
> >shows that Maven are in agreement and happy to take the code.
> >
> >What happens now ?
>
> Thanks for waking this up.
>
> I guess we officially invite Maven to take the code into their SVN,
> thank them for taking care of it and remove it from our SVN.
>
> David, is there anything special we need to do?
Sorry, i have been busy, and still.
I suggest that one of us composes a list of steps,
then contacts Maven.
Here are some items that i can quickly think of:
* A Maven committer does a complete 'svn copy' of
everything in forrestdoc. This retains history (and
can do subsequent moves/deletes from there).
* Then a Forrest committer does an 'svn delete' from
our SVN forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc
* Maven might need to explore what happened with the
import of the Vizant code. We haven't really investigated
the provenance of any of forrestdoc. There are some recent
notes in
forrest/whiteboard/forrestdoc/src/java/org/apache/forrest/forrestdoc/ant/doc/package.htm
* Need to add comments to the various recent email
threads to provide cross-references for the archives
and mention the issue number.
-David
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Gav.... wrote:
> Ok, so we have given plenty more time.
>
> Looking again at the link Vincent gave ,
>
> http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
>
> shows that Maven are in agreement and happy to take the code.
>
> What happens now ?
Thanks for waking this up.
I guess we officially invite Maven to take the code into their SVN,
thank them for taking care of it and remove it from our SVN.
David, is there anything special we need to do?
Ross
RE: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by "Gav...." <br...@brightontown.com.au>.
Ok, so we have given plenty more time.
Looking again at the link Vincent gave ,
http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
shows that Maven are in agreement and happy to take the code.
What happens now ?
Gav...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Crossley [mailto:crossley@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2007 7:45 AM
> To: dev@forrest.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
>
> Ross Gardler wrote:
> >
> > OK, so lets leave it a little while longer to ensure others can object
> > if they want to. Then under lazy consensus we can offer it to the
> > Maven community.
> >
> > [NOTE: my interpretation is that we don't need a vote for this but
> > there is time to correct me if I am wrong]
>
> I agree with you. In an earlier message i tried to
> carefully choose words to express that.
>
> -David
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> OK, so lets leave it a little while longer to ensure others can object
> if they want to. Then under lazy consensus we can offer it to the
> Maven community.
>
> [NOTE: my interpretation is that we don't need a vote for this but
> there is time to correct me if I am wrong]
I agree with you. In an earlier message i tried to
carefully choose words to express that.
-David
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 18/07/07, Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 12:24 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
...
> > It is our duty to maintain the code, I agree. But the "our" in that
> > sentence refers to the ASF, not to Forrest. We (Forrest) are not
> > maintaining the code, Maven say they want to use and maintain it and,
> > more importantly, Vincent is doing it.
>
> As I understand the thread
> http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html they
> are still deciding. Reading your words it sounds they already have
> consensus they want be the new host.
Poor wording on my part, I'm still sticking with my original proposal
from [1] which was:
"Vincent, are you reading this thread? If so can you liaise with the
Maven community to see if they would like to accept the code into
their SVN. Be aware that Forrest have not yet decided they will donate
the code (see above), but if Maven don't want it you could save us
some time."
> I know that you are on travel, all patches are applied besides
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-1024 (see my comment on it!)
> from Gavin and me.
Thanks to you both.
> ...but please let us apply a realistic time frame for issues, why is
> everybody in a hurry this days?
I don't see a rush, again, from [1]:
"we need to leave a little more time to ensure Thorsten is able to
object more strongly if he so desires."
[that should have said "the community" not Thorsten, sorry]
Applying patches in a timely manner is very important for community
development though.
> If there is a commitment for the code I am all for giving to maven.
OK, so lets leave it a little while longer to ensure others can object
if they want to. Then under lazy consensus we can offer it to the
Maven community.
[NOTE: my interpretation is that we don't need a vote for this but
there is time to correct me if I am wrong]
Ross
[1] http://marc.info/?l=forrest-dev&m=118432007911299&w=2
RE: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by "Gav...." <br...@brightontown.com.au>.
As the 'other' interested party initially in this code here is
my stance.
If 'ForrestDoc' stays at Forrest I am happy to work on it where
I can as I said in my original reply, apply patches, work on
code I understand, try and understand what I don't etc etc ...
If Maven decide they want it over there, that's fine with me
too, but I wont be able to go over there and help at this
time, I am already spread as much across the ASF as I can and
want to manage. (No loss to the Maven folk there though :) )
I agree we are thin on the ground for active devs at this time
and in other threads we are talking about some major overhauls
of Forrests workings. We could probably do without maintaining
code that we haven't had a need for up to now.
I am therefore +1 on releasing it to Maven if they want it.
Gav...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thorsten Scherler [mailto:thorsten@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2007 8:17 AM
> To: dev@forrest.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
>
> On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 12:24 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> ...
> > > Adding the part "Vincent being an ASF committer expressing he is
> acting
> > > for an ASF community (maven)" is changing a WEE bit the situation.
> > >
> > > Can't we leverage? For now the scale for people that are sharing
> > > interest it is about 2 forrest : 1 maven (and code still in forrest).
> It
> > > is IMO ATM our duty to maintain the code.
> >
> > It is our duty to maintain the code, I agree. But the "our" in that
> > sentence refers to the ASF, not to Forrest. We (Forrest) are not
> > maintaining the code, Maven say they want to use and maintain it and,
> > more importantly, Vincent is doing it.
>
> As I understand the thread
> http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html they
> are still deciding. Reading your words it sounds they already have
> consensus they want be the new host.
>
> As I said I am very welcome if maven want the code, they can have it.
>
> >
> > > As soon as we see a wave of patches coming from the maven community we
> > > may re think the situation, but for now I do not see the need.
> >
> > OK, so will you please apply the patches so that Vincent can proceed
> > unhindered. (that doesn't mean I won't do so, only that right now I do
> > not have the time)
>
> I know that you are on travel, all patches are applied besides
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-1024 (see my comment on it!)
> from Gavin and me.
>
> We are a community that does not only exist of Ross and David to do the
> work (I just finished a similar mail to the user ml). At least I hope
> so!
>
> ...but please let us apply a realistic time frame for issues, why is
> everybody in a hurry this days?
>
> >
> > > > Vincent, are you reading this thread? If so can you liaise with the
> > > > Maven community to see if they would like to accept the code into
> > > > their SVN. Be aware that Forrest have not yet decided they will
> donate
> > > > the code (see above), but if Maven don't want it you could save us
> > > > some time.
> > >
> > > My question is how many people are interested in maintain/develop the
> > > code in the maven community?
> >
> > I don't know the answer, but I do know it is one more *active*
> > committer than in the Forrest community.
>
> If there is a commitment for the code I am all for giving to maven.
>
> Anyway if there is a vote right no I am -0.
>
> Since we are in forrest in a hurry this days.
>
> salu2
> --
> Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org
> Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 12:24 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
...
> > Adding the part "Vincent being an ASF committer expressing he is acting
> > for an ASF community (maven)" is changing a WEE bit the situation.
> >
> > Can't we leverage? For now the scale for people that are sharing
> > interest it is about 2 forrest : 1 maven (and code still in forrest). It
> > is IMO ATM our duty to maintain the code.
>
> It is our duty to maintain the code, I agree. But the "our" in that
> sentence refers to the ASF, not to Forrest. We (Forrest) are not
> maintaining the code, Maven say they want to use and maintain it and,
> more importantly, Vincent is doing it.
As I understand the thread
http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html they
are still deciding. Reading your words it sounds they already have
consensus they want be the new host.
As I said I am very welcome if maven want the code, they can have it.
>
> > As soon as we see a wave of patches coming from the maven community we
> > may re think the situation, but for now I do not see the need.
>
> OK, so will you please apply the patches so that Vincent can proceed
> unhindered. (that doesn't mean I won't do so, only that right now I do
> not have the time)
I know that you are on travel, all patches are applied besides
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-1024 (see my comment on it!)
from Gavin and me.
We are a community that does not only exist of Ross and David to do the
work (I just finished a similar mail to the user ml). At least I hope
so!
...but please let us apply a realistic time frame for issues, why is
everybody in a hurry this days?
>
> > > Vincent, are you reading this thread? If so can you liaise with the
> > > Maven community to see if they would like to accept the code into
> > > their SVN. Be aware that Forrest have not yet decided they will donate
> > > the code (see above), but if Maven don't want it you could save us
> > > some time.
> >
> > My question is how many people are interested in maintain/develop the
> > code in the maven community?
>
> I don't know the answer, but I do know it is one more *active*
> committer than in the Forrest community.
If there is a commitment for the code I am all for giving to maven.
Anyway if there is a vote right no I am -0.
Since we are in forrest in a hurry this days.
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org
Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Vincent Siveton <vi...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ross,
[SNIP]
>>
>> My question is how many people are interested in maintain/develop the
>> code in the maven community?
>
>I don't know the answer, but I do know it is one more *active*
>committer than in the Forrest community.
>
FYI I put feedback on dev@maven:
http://www.nabble.com/Forrestdoc-and-Maven-JXR-tf3864888s177.html
Cheers,
Vincent
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-Proposal--decide-the-future-of-forrestdoc-tf4060050.html#a11647976
Sent from the Apache Forrest - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 14/07/07, Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org> wrote:
> Disclaimer: I did/do not want to offend anyone in any word I wrote in
> this mail. The persons are exchangeable in any moment, the pattern
> however is the same.
>
> It is not about criticizing people but a pattern!
>
> On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 10:47 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> ...
> > > I am away for a long long weekend from this afternoon.
> > > We don't want to hold up Vincent, so if someone feels
> > > that positive consensus is reached, then please start
> > > that process to link up with last month's thread from
> > > him and the Maven people. Otherwise please start a
> > > Forrest vote for clarification.
> >
> > As far as I am concerned the general feel is positive at present.
> > However, we need to leave a little more time to ensure Thorsten is
> > able to object more strongly if he so desires. An alternative is that
> > we give Vincent commit access here, however, that would require a
> > vote.
> >
>
> Hold on, let us step back for a moment.
>
> I see it as follow (leaving out that Vincent is an ASF committer and
> expressing he is acting for an ASF community (maven), I will attend this
> part later):
>
> Somebody expresses interest in whiteboard code. Two committer say that
> they are willing to have a closer look on code (never reviewed in their
> life) that has gone a long road to find forrest as current host.
> Silence. Patches. Proposal to give it away to the one expressing
> interest (submitting patches) because the patches have not been applied
> within 48 hours, because the forrest community is to small.
>
People expressed interest some time ago but did nothing. Thorsten (one
who expressed interest) now states they do not have the time. Someone
else provides patches and *is* active, but they don't have commit
access to the code.
Forrest is not maintaining the code, Maven want to.
> How does this read?
It reads like Lazy Consensus to me.
> The question arise is, can we win a community member by going the extra
> mile to get a grip on historical whiteboard code as community or do we
> want to go give up trying to win communities member, giving code away?
This code is *not* part of Forrest. We have no intention of embedding
it in Forrest, at least no action on doing so. It is not in our
roadmap. It was only ever moved here because it would have got lost
otherwise.
Bringing in a community member whose only interest is in a peice of
code that we do not have a use for is not going to help our community.
On the other hand, allowing another community to actively develop the
code means that, should we want to use it in the future, it will be
more stable.
Finally, we are not "giving code away". This is the ASF there is no
ownership of code. What we are trying to do is put the code in a home
where it can flourish.
> Adding the part "Vincent being an ASF committer expressing he is acting
> for an ASF community (maven)" is changing a WEE bit the situation.
>
> Can't we leverage? For now the scale for people that are sharing
> interest it is about 2 forrest : 1 maven (and code still in forrest). It
> is IMO ATM our duty to maintain the code.
It is our duty to maintain the code, I agree. But the "our" in that
sentence refers to the ASF, not to Forrest. We (Forrest) are not
maintaining the code, Maven say they want to use and maintain it and,
more importantly, Vincent is doing it.
> As soon as we see a wave of patches coming from the maven community we
> may re think the situation, but for now I do not see the need.
OK, so will you please apply the patches so that Vincent can proceed
unhindered. (that doesn't mean I won't do so, only that right now I do
not have the time)
> > Vincent, are you reading this thread? If so can you liaise with the
> > Maven community to see if they would like to accept the code into
> > their SVN. Be aware that Forrest have not yet decided they will donate
> > the code (see above), but if Maven don't want it you could save us
> > some time.
>
> My question is how many people are interested in maintain/develop the
> code in the maven community?
I don't know the answer, but I do know it is one more *active*
committer than in the Forrest community.
Ross
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
Disclaimer: I did/do not want to offend anyone in any word I wrote in
this mail. The persons are exchangeable in any moment, the pattern
however is the same.
It is not about criticizing people but a pattern!
On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 10:47 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
...
> > I am away for a long long weekend from this afternoon.
> > We don't want to hold up Vincent, so if someone feels
> > that positive consensus is reached, then please start
> > that process to link up with last month's thread from
> > him and the Maven people. Otherwise please start a
> > Forrest vote for clarification.
>
> As far as I am concerned the general feel is positive at present.
> However, we need to leave a little more time to ensure Thorsten is
> able to object more strongly if he so desires. An alternative is that
> we give Vincent commit access here, however, that would require a
> vote.
>
Hold on, let us step back for a moment.
I see it as follow (leaving out that Vincent is an ASF committer and
expressing he is acting for an ASF community (maven), I will attend this
part later):
Somebody expresses interest in whiteboard code. Two committer say that
they are willing to have a closer look on code (never reviewed in their
life) that has gone a long road to find forrest as current host.
Silence. Patches. Proposal to give it away to the one expressing
interest (submitting patches) because the patches have not been applied
within 48 hours, because the forrest community is to small.
How does this read?
Being unilateral, leaving out the context, this are the facts (having a
unilateral view on things).
The question arise is, can we win a community member by going the extra
mile to get a grip on historical whiteboard code as community or do we
want to go give up trying to win communities member, giving code away?
Adding the part "Vincent being an ASF committer expressing he is acting
for an ASF community (maven)" is changing a WEE bit the situation.
Can't we leverage? For now the scale for people that are sharing
interest it is about 2 forrest : 1 maven (and code still in forrest). It
is IMO ATM our duty to maintain the code.
As soon as we see a wave of patches coming from the maven community we
may re think the situation, but for now I do not see the need.
Point giving commit access, our policy is quite clear about it.
Being metaphorical: one good game does not bring you in the hall of
fame.
I personally love the idea of apache labs where all asf committer have
write access to all code of any lab. We have this situation with cocoon
and lenya, we can vote on including maven to this union. I guess, seeing
cocoon now using maven, the cocoon community could be interested in it
too.
...but that is another topic.
> Vincent, are you reading this thread? If so can you liaise with the
> Maven community to see if they would like to accept the code into
> their SVN. Be aware that Forrest have not yet decided they will donate
> the code (see above), but if Maven don't want it you could save us
> some time.
My question is how many people are interested in maintain/develop the
code in the maven community?
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org
Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 13/07/07, David Crossley <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
> > Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > >David Crossley wrote:
...
> > I am fine with this (in fact there is nothing to stop Maven taking the
> > code anyway).
>
> Yes, but better to be clean handover rather than a
> lingering copy. This code has been through many homes,
> so obviously is valuable. We need to have a clear trail.
I agree, I was not suggesting that Maven do this. I meant that if we
do not apply patches in a timely manner Maven will be forced to fork
the code in order to get decent access to it. This is counter to what
the ASF are trying to achieve. Lets give them the code and, if someone
here wants to use it in the future then we work with them on it.
In other words, David and I are saying exactly the same thing.
> I am away for a long long weekend from this afternoon.
> We don't want to hold up Vincent, so if someone feels
> that positive consensus is reached, then please start
> that process to link up with last month's thread from
> him and the Maven people. Otherwise please start a
> Forrest vote for clarification.
As far as I am concerned the general feel is positive at present.
However, we need to leave a little more time to ensure Thorsten is
able to object more strongly if he so desires. An alternative is that
we give Vincent commit access here, however, that would require a
vote.
Vincent, are you reading this thread? If so can you liaise with the
Maven community to see if they would like to accept the code into
their SVN. Be aware that Forrest have not yet decided they will donate
the code (see above), but if Maven don't want it you could save us
some time.
Ross
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> >David Crossley wrote:
>
> ...
>
> >> I propose that Forrest ask the Maven project to take the
> >> code as-is over to Maven JXR, then split it up as they see fit.
> >>
> >> What do other Forrest developers think?
> >
> >I understand your reasoning but I do not like that we seem to prefer to
> >give this code away instead to get a grip on it and build a community
> >around it.
> >
> >I am ATM not able to take the lead out of time restrictions
> >but may be somebody else can step up.
> >
> >I am not at all in favor of this proposal.
See the history. We have tried that on various occasions.
Surely we can re-use some of this from Maven
if we want to do something in the future.
> I am fine with this (in fact there is nothing to stop Maven taking the
> code anyway).
Yes, but better to be clean handover rather than a
lingering copy. This code has been through many homes,
so obviously is valuable. We need to have a clear trail.
> It is not being developed here and Vincent has done more work on it in
> the last week than we have in years. I'd rather see the code go where
> it will be developed and maintained rather than sitting idle in our
> repo.
>
> I am in favour of this proposal, assuming Maven want it of course.
That would be the next step. After we are sure
that we want it moved out, then we can formulate
a proposal to Maven.
Sorry, my final "propose" sentence was poorly worded.
I am away for a long long weekend from this afternoon.
We don't want to hold up Vincent, so if someone feels
that positive consensus is reached, then please start
that process to link up with last month's thread from
him and the Maven people. Otherwise please start a
Forrest vote for clarification.
-David
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 12/07/07, Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 16:03 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
...
> > I propose that Forrest ask the Maven project to take the
> > code as-is over to Maven JXR, then split it up as they see fit.
> >
> > What do other Forrest developers think?
>
> I understand your reasoning but I do not like that we seem to prefer to
> give this code away instead to get a grip on it and build a community
> around it. I am ATM not able to take the lead out of time restrictions
> but may be somebody else can step up.
>
> I am not at all in favor of this proposal.
I am fine with this (in fact there is nothing to stop Maven taking the
code anyway).
It is not being developed here and Vincent has done more work on it in
the last week than we have in years. I'd rather see the code go where
it will be developed and maintained rather than sitting idle in our
repo.
I am in favour of this proposal, assuming Maven want it of course.
Ross
Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 16:03 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> The Apache Forrest project needs to decide the future
> of "forrestdoc": trunk/whiteboard/forrestdoc/
>
> When the Apache Jakarta Alexandria project became defunct,
> this code was saved and given a home at Apache Forrest.
> After some initial work, no development was done in the
> subsequent years. There was some hope that it would be
> turned into a Forrest plugin, but that has not eventuated.
> The code is not used at all by 'forrest'.
>
> See background http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
>
> Recently the Apache Maven project expressed some interest [2].
> There were some murmurs by two very busy Forrest developers.
> However this did not spur the Forrest project to explore
> what to do with the code.
>
> It has no community built around it at Forrest.
>
> I am concerned that the Forrest project is too thin to be
> able to support this tool. We need to focus on our core
> and our plugins.
>
> Today Vincent provided some patches.
>
> I am very concerned that this makes an obscure part of
> Forrest whiteboard available in the Maven repositories,
> while Forrest has no other presence there. This could
> cause confusion for our main users.
>
> I propose that Forrest ask the Maven project to take the
> code as-is over to Maven JXR, then split it up as they see fit.
>
> What do other Forrest developers think?
I understand your reasoning but I do not like that we seem to prefer to
give this code away instead to get a grip on it and build a community
around it. I am ATM not able to take the lead out of time restrictions
but may be somebody else can step up.
I am not at all in favor of this proposal.
salu2
> [1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-820
>
> [2] Re: Forrestdoc and Maven JXR
> http://marc.info/?t=118096009200007
--
Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org
Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions