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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> on 2006/06/14 19:23:33 UTC
custom namespace
Hi,
By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
How can I define my own, custom namespace?
Regards,
Norbi
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
I'm not putting down HM in any way. It is the *enabler* and the *glue*
in T4 today. I see resistance here at work to Tapestry 4 and a lot of
it has to do with being forced to learn HM to do what appear to be
mundane tasks.
One example is Services. They were very simple to create and add to an
app pre T4. No so easy now. Are they more powerful now? Absolutely.
Could a convention and a little more (ok maybe a lot more) work behind
the scenes let us bring back the <service> tag and cover a large
percentage of user's needs? I think so. HM operates behind the scenes
always as the enabler of the convention and the full power of HM is
always available for those crazy corner cases.
Our app is currently built around Spring. I know we can reuse that
stuff in T4 which is excellent. If we have a working app in T3 that
has over 100 Spring managed beans and services so we are not going to
change any that stuff over to HM managed entities. So, the less we
need to care about HM the better for us. We add a new developer about
every month and the learning curve is steep already. Ideally, we would
rather not have to pile on HM up front, HM use should be needed in
only the exceptional cases where a few incumbents can handle it and
the new guy can pick it up later as needed.
To me it's like having Excel mandate that the sorting of data be done
using a VB script authored by the user. In Excel they have a menu item
to sort and can use VB for the exceptional cases. In Tapestry
conventions are the menu item and HM is the super powerful tool you
look to solve that really complex problem. 90% of Excel uses never
write a script. If even 80-90% of the time users could rely on a
convention over a HM contribution I think that would be a big plus for
adoption.
Not a rant this time. just my opinion.
Geoff
On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> That would work, too. But, HiveMind already has the auto-discovery stuff
> built in. It's really not that hard to configure stuff via HiveMind. Of
> course, that's coming from a HiveMind committer. :-)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:31 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
> You run the risk of me going into the whole sob story about T4 and how
> to fix it in T5! :-)
>
> Why isn't the .library file enough config? Just put it in the META-INF
> dir of the jar and have Tapestry autodiscover it.
>
> ?
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In the context of that suggestion, where would you see this configuration
> > data going ?
> >
> > On 6/15/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Good God No!
> > >
> > > While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> > > a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
> > >
> > > IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> > > be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> > > be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> > > particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> > > libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> > > writing a line of HM config.
> > >
> > > That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> > > everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> > > something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> > > mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> > > just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> > > in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> > > except in an appendix.
> > >
> > > end of rant!
> > >
> > > Geoff
> > >
> > > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > > It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
> the
> > > mix
> > > > via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> > > > override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> > > > something. That's the way I'd do it.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> > > > To: Tapestry users
> > > > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > > >
> > > > I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> > > > issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> > > > Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Norbi
> > > >
> > > > Geoff Longman wrote:
> > > > > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> > > > > issue.
> > > > >
> > > > > Geoff
> > > > >
> > > > > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > > >> Thanks!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> > > define
> > > > >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regards,
> > > > >> Norbi
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > > > >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be
> > > tied
> > > > >> > to a
> > > > >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less
> > > sure
> > > > >> > of as
> > > > >> > the best solution)
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Hi,
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> > > > >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Regards,
> > > > >> >> Norbi
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> > > > >> 2006.06.12.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > > Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> > > Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jesse Kuhnert
> > Tacos/Tapestry, team member/developer
> >
> > Open source based consulting work centered around
> > dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
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RE: custom namespace
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
That would work, too. But, HiveMind already has the auto-discovery stuff
built in. It's really not that hard to configure stuff via HiveMind. Of
course, that's coming from a HiveMind committer. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:31 PM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: custom namespace
You run the risk of me going into the whole sob story about T4 and how
to fix it in T5! :-)
Why isn't the .library file enough config? Just put it in the META-INF
dir of the jar and have Tapestry autodiscover it.
?
Geoff
On 6/15/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the context of that suggestion, where would you see this configuration
> data going ?
>
> On 6/15/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Good God No!
> >
> > While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> > a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
> >
> > IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> > be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> > be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> > particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> > libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> > writing a line of HM config.
> >
> > That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> > everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> > something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> > mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> > just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> > in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> > except in an appendix.
> >
> > end of rant!
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
the
> > mix
> > > via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> > > override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> > > something. That's the way I'd do it.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> > > To: Tapestry users
> > > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > >
> > > I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> > > issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> > > Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Norbi
> > >
> > > Geoff Longman wrote:
> > > > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> > > > issue.
> > > >
> > > > Geoff
> > > >
> > > > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > >> Thanks!
> > > >>
> > > >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> > define
> > > >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Norbi
> > > >>
> > > >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > > >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be
> > tied
> > > >> > to a
> > > >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less
> > sure
> > > >> > of as
> > > >> > the best solution)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Hi,
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> > > >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Regards,
> > > >> >> Norbi
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >
> > > >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> > > >> 2006.06.12.
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> > Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jesse Kuhnert
> Tacos/Tapestry, team member/developer
>
> Open source based consulting work centered around
> dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind.
>
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
You run the risk of me going into the whole sob story about T4 and how
to fix it in T5! :-)
Why isn't the .library file enough config? Just put it in the META-INF
dir of the jar and have Tapestry autodiscover it.
?
Geoff
On 6/15/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the context of that suggestion, where would you see this configuration
> data going ?
>
> On 6/15/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Good God No!
> >
> > While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> > a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
> >
> > IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> > be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> > be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> > particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> > libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> > writing a line of HM config.
> >
> > That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> > everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> > something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> > mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> > just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> > in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> > except in an appendix.
> >
> > end of rant!
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to the
> > mix
> > > via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> > > override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> > > something. That's the way I'd do it.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> > > To: Tapestry users
> > > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > >
> > > I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> > > issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> > > Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Norbi
> > >
> > > Geoff Longman wrote:
> > > > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> > > > issue.
> > > >
> > > > Geoff
> > > >
> > > > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > >> Thanks!
> > > >>
> > > >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> > define
> > > >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Norbi
> > > >>
> > > >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > > >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be
> > tied
> > > >> > to a
> > > >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less
> > sure
> > > >> > of as
> > > >> > the best solution)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Hi,
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> > > >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Regards,
> > > >> >> Norbi
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >
> > > >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> > > >> 2006.06.12.
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> > Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jesse Kuhnert
> Tacos/Tapestry, team member/developer
>
> Open source based consulting work centered around
> dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind.
>
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: custom namespace
Posted by Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>.
In the context of that suggestion, where would you see this configuration
data going ?
On 6/15/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good God No!
>
> While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
>
> IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> writing a line of HM config.
>
> That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> except in an appendix.
>
> end of rant!
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to the
> mix
> > via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> > override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> > something. That's the way I'd do it.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> > To: Tapestry users
> > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> >
> > I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> > issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> > Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Norbi
> >
> > Geoff Longman wrote:
> > > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> > > issue.
> > >
> > > Geoff
> > >
> > > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > >> Thanks!
> > >>
> > >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> define
> > >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Norbi
> > >>
> > >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be
> tied
> > >> > to a
> > >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less
> sure
> > >> > of as
> > >> > the best solution)
> > >> >
> > >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Hi,
> > >> >>
> > >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> > >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Regards,
> > >> >> Norbi
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> > >> 2006.06.12.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Jesse Kuhnert
Tacos/Tapestry, team member/developer
Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind.
Re: custom namespace
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
I don't think it's a matter of enforcement per se. If the right
choices are made in development no enforcement is needed to adhere to
a convention as it's just the way you do it. Not much enforcement is
needed in the custom HM case - it's custom! The developer is stepping
out from under the umbrella so to speak and should police themselves.
Some things I'd like to see:
Auto discovery of libraries
One, or maybe two but no more,ways to locate pages and components
The page is the class, the class is the page (there is a common
exception to this)
The component is the class, the class is the component (see above)
Services without HM configuration xml (bring back the <service> tag!)*
ASOs without HM configuration xml (introduce an <aso> tag!)*
these and perhaps more are already in the dev list in threads with
subjects prepended with [T5]
I don't claim to know at this time how these would be implemented.
Anybody want to add to the list above?
Geoff
*while xml is going away (i think) for pages and components in T5 -
I'm assuming that it will stay for applications and libraries
On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> So, what kind of conventions do you have in mind for Tapestry to enforce?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:48 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
> Geez, I need to socialize more here. We have 14 developers.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I wonder how hard it is to break from the conventions in Rails. I
> > would expect that with Tapestry+HM it would be pretty easy.
> >
> > Tapestry, in some cases, has too many conventions. Look at the rules
> > for finding pages and components. If you add em all up there are more
> > than 10. (10!!)
> >
> > We, and I'm sure everyone does this, have chosen the case that works
> > best for us(plus we are using Tap 3 and have Spindle - cringe - duck)
> > and made that the convention in the office. All of our 9 developers do
> > the same thing. We have even made conventions on how we handle the
> > rewind, use javascript in our pages, etc. With 160+ pages it's pretty
> > easy for any developer to go in and fix a bug in a page they didn't
> > write. We had one person, who has since moved on, who decided not to
> > follow the office conventions and it has been a nightmare fixing
> > issues in that code.
> >
> > So, yes I'm very pro convention.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > Nothing's wrong with conventions. Tapestry already uses them somewhat
> (page
> > > names map to classnames in the default page package). Rails gets a
> *lot*
> > > done by just using conventions.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:30 PM
> > > To: Tapestry users
> > > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > >
> > > COP cool acronym. What is wrong with conventions? (I have never used
> Rails)
> > >
> > > Geoff
> > >
> > > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > > So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a
> la
> > > > Rails)?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
> > > > To: Tapestry users
> > > > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > > >
> > > > +1 for that rant.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Geoff Longman wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Good God No!
> > > > >
> > > > > While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I
> see
> > > > > a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
> > > > >
> > > > > IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> > > > > be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs
> to
> > > > > be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> > > > > particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> > > > > libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> > > > > writing a line of HM config.
> > > > >
> > > > > That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> > > > > everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> > > > > something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of
> the
> > > > > mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where
> you
> > > > > just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention.
> Really,
> > > > > in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> > > > > except in an appendix.
> > > > >
> > > > > end of rant!
> > > > >
> > > > > Geoff
> > > > >
> > > > > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
> > > > >> the mix
> > > > >> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users"
> to
> > > > >> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution
> or
> > > > >> something. That's the way I'd do it.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> > > > >> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> > > > >> To: Tapestry users
> > > > >> Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I use many such component libraries which means that because of
> this
> > > > >> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> > > > >> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regards,
> > > > >> Norbi
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Geoff Longman wrote:
> > > > >> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the
> same
> > > > >> > issue.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Geoff
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >> Thanks!
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> > > > >> define
> > > > >> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Regards,
> > > > >> >> Norbi
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > > > >> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
> > > > >> be tied
> > > > >> >> > to a
> > > > >> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
> > > > >> less sure
> > > > >> >> > of as
> > > > >> >> > the best solution)
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >> Hi,
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> > > > >> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >> Regards,
> > > > >> >> >> Norbi
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >>
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > >> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> > > > >> >> 2006.06.12.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > > Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> > > Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> > Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
> >
>
>
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: custom namespace
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
So, what kind of conventions do you have in mind for Tapestry to enforce?
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:48 PM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: custom namespace
Geez, I need to socialize more here. We have 14 developers.
Geoff
On 6/15/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder how hard it is to break from the conventions in Rails. I
> would expect that with Tapestry+HM it would be pretty easy.
>
> Tapestry, in some cases, has too many conventions. Look at the rules
> for finding pages and components. If you add em all up there are more
> than 10. (10!!)
>
> We, and I'm sure everyone does this, have chosen the case that works
> best for us(plus we are using Tap 3 and have Spindle - cringe - duck)
> and made that the convention in the office. All of our 9 developers do
> the same thing. We have even made conventions on how we handle the
> rewind, use javascript in our pages, etc. With 160+ pages it's pretty
> easy for any developer to go in and fix a bug in a page they didn't
> write. We had one person, who has since moved on, who decided not to
> follow the office conventions and it has been a nightmare fixing
> issues in that code.
>
> So, yes I'm very pro convention.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > Nothing's wrong with conventions. Tapestry already uses them somewhat
(page
> > names map to classnames in the default page package). Rails gets a
*lot*
> > done by just using conventions.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:30 PM
> > To: Tapestry users
> > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> >
> > COP cool acronym. What is wrong with conventions? (I have never used
Rails)
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a
la
> > > Rails)?
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
> > > To: Tapestry users
> > > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > >
> > > +1 for that rant.
> > >
> > >
> > > Geoff Longman wrote:
> > >
> > > > Good God No!
> > > >
> > > > While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I
see
> > > > a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
> > > >
> > > > IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> > > > be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs
to
> > > > be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> > > > particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> > > > libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> > > > writing a line of HM config.
> > > >
> > > > That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> > > > everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> > > > something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of
the
> > > > mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where
you
> > > > just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention.
Really,
> > > > in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> > > > except in an appendix.
> > > >
> > > > end of rant!
> > > >
> > > > Geoff
> > > >
> > > > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
> > > >> the mix
> > > >> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users"
to
> > > >> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution
or
> > > >> something. That's the way I'd do it.
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> > > >> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> > > >> To: Tapestry users
> > > >> Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > > >>
> > > >> I use many such component libraries which means that because of
this
> > > >> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> > > >> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Norbi
> > > >>
> > > >> Geoff Longman wrote:
> > > >> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the
same
> > > >> > issue.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Geoff
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> Thanks!
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> > > >> define
> > > >> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Regards,
> > > >> >> Norbi
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > > >> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
> > > >> be tied
> > > >> >> > to a
> > > >> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
> > > >> less sure
> > > >> >> > of as
> > > >> >> > the best solution)
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Hi,
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> > > >> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Regards,
> > > >> >> >> Norbi
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail:
users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > >> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> > > >> >> 2006.06.12.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> > Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
Geez, I need to socialize more here. We have 14 developers.
Geoff
On 6/15/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder how hard it is to break from the conventions in Rails. I
> would expect that with Tapestry+HM it would be pretty easy.
>
> Tapestry, in some cases, has too many conventions. Look at the rules
> for finding pages and components. If you add em all up there are more
> than 10. (10!!)
>
> We, and I'm sure everyone does this, have chosen the case that works
> best for us(plus we are using Tap 3 and have Spindle - cringe - duck)
> and made that the convention in the office. All of our 9 developers do
> the same thing. We have even made conventions on how we handle the
> rewind, use javascript in our pages, etc. With 160+ pages it's pretty
> easy for any developer to go in and fix a bug in a page they didn't
> write. We had one person, who has since moved on, who decided not to
> follow the office conventions and it has been a nightmare fixing
> issues in that code.
>
> So, yes I'm very pro convention.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > Nothing's wrong with conventions. Tapestry already uses them somewhat (page
> > names map to classnames in the default page package). Rails gets a *lot*
> > done by just using conventions.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:30 PM
> > To: Tapestry users
> > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> >
> > COP cool acronym. What is wrong with conventions? (I have never used Rails)
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a la
> > > Rails)?
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
> > > To: Tapestry users
> > > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > >
> > > +1 for that rant.
> > >
> > >
> > > Geoff Longman wrote:
> > >
> > > > Good God No!
> > > >
> > > > While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> > > > a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
> > > >
> > > > IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> > > > be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> > > > be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> > > > particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> > > > libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> > > > writing a line of HM config.
> > > >
> > > > That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> > > > everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> > > > something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> > > > mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> > > > just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> > > > in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> > > > except in an appendix.
> > > >
> > > > end of rant!
> > > >
> > > > Geoff
> > > >
> > > > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
> > > >> the mix
> > > >> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> > > >> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> > > >> something. That's the way I'd do it.
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> > > >> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> > > >> To: Tapestry users
> > > >> Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > > >>
> > > >> I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> > > >> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> > > >> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Norbi
> > > >>
> > > >> Geoff Longman wrote:
> > > >> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> > > >> > issue.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Geoff
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> Thanks!
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> > > >> define
> > > >> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Regards,
> > > >> >> Norbi
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > > >> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
> > > >> be tied
> > > >> >> > to a
> > > >> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
> > > >> less sure
> > > >> >> > of as
> > > >> >> > the best solution)
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Hi,
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> > > >> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Regards,
> > > >> >> >> Norbi
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > >> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> > > >> >> 2006.06.12.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> > Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
I wonder how hard it is to break from the conventions in Rails. I
would expect that with Tapestry+HM it would be pretty easy.
Tapestry, in some cases, has too many conventions. Look at the rules
for finding pages and components. If you add em all up there are more
than 10. (10!!)
We, and I'm sure everyone does this, have chosen the case that works
best for us(plus we are using Tap 3 and have Spindle - cringe - duck)
and made that the convention in the office. All of our 9 developers do
the same thing. We have even made conventions on how we handle the
rewind, use javascript in our pages, etc. With 160+ pages it's pretty
easy for any developer to go in and fix a bug in a page they didn't
write. We had one person, who has since moved on, who decided not to
follow the office conventions and it has been a nightmare fixing
issues in that code.
So, yes I'm very pro convention.
Geoff
On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> Nothing's wrong with conventions. Tapestry already uses them somewhat (page
> names map to classnames in the default page package). Rails gets a *lot*
> done by just using conventions.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:30 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
> COP cool acronym. What is wrong with conventions? (I have never used Rails)
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a la
> > Rails)?
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
> > To: Tapestry users
> > Subject: Re: custom namespace
> >
> > +1 for that rant.
> >
> >
> > Geoff Longman wrote:
> >
> > > Good God No!
> > >
> > > While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> > > a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
> > >
> > > IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> > > be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> > > be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> > > particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> > > libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> > > writing a line of HM config.
> > >
> > > That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> > > everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> > > something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> > > mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> > > just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> > > in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> > > except in an appendix.
> > >
> > > end of rant!
> > >
> > > Geoff
> > >
> > > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
> > >> the mix
> > >> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> > >> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> > >> something. That's the way I'd do it.
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> > >> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> > >> To: Tapestry users
> > >> Subject: Re: custom namespace
> > >>
> > >> I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> > >> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> > >> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Norbi
> > >>
> > >> Geoff Longman wrote:
> > >> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> > >> > issue.
> > >> >
> > >> > Geoff
> > >> >
> > >> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > >> >> Thanks!
> > >> >>
> > >> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> > >> define
> > >> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Regards,
> > >> >> Norbi
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > >> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
> > >> be tied
> > >> >> > to a
> > >> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
> > >> less sure
> > >> >> > of as
> > >> >> > the best solution)
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Hi,
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> > >> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Regards,
> > >> >> >> Norbi
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > >> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> > >> >> 2006.06.12.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
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RE: custom namespace
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
Nothing's wrong with conventions. Tapestry already uses them somewhat (page
names map to classnames in the default page package). Rails gets a *lot*
done by just using conventions.
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:30 PM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: custom namespace
COP cool acronym. What is wrong with conventions? (I have never used Rails)
Geoff
On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a la
> Rails)?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
> +1 for that rant.
>
>
> Geoff Longman wrote:
>
> > Good God No!
> >
> > While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> > a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
> >
> > IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> > be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> > be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> > particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> > libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> > writing a line of HM config.
> >
> > That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> > everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> > something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> > mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> > just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> > in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> > except in an appendix.
> >
> > end of rant!
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
> >> the mix
> >> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> >> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> >> something. That's the way I'd do it.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> >> To: Tapestry users
> >> Subject: Re: custom namespace
> >>
> >> I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> >> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> >> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Norbi
> >>
> >> Geoff Longman wrote:
> >> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> >> > issue.
> >> >
> >> > Geoff
> >> >
> >> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >> >> Thanks!
> >> >>
> >> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> >> define
> >> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> Norbi
> >> >>
> >> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> >> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
> >> be tied
> >> >> > to a
> >> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
> >> less sure
> >> >> > of as
> >> >> > the best solution)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> >> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> >> Norbi
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> >> >> 2006.06.12.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
COP cool acronym. What is wrong with conventions? (I have never used Rails)
Geoff
On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a la
> Rails)?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
> +1 for that rant.
>
>
> Geoff Longman wrote:
>
> > Good God No!
> >
> > While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> > a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
> >
> > IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> > be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> > be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> > particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> > libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> > writing a line of HM config.
> >
> > That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> > everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> > something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> > mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> > just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> > in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> > except in an appendix.
> >
> > end of rant!
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
> >> the mix
> >> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> >> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> >> something. That's the way I'd do it.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> >> To: Tapestry users
> >> Subject: Re: custom namespace
> >>
> >> I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> >> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> >> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Norbi
> >>
> >> Geoff Longman wrote:
> >> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> >> > issue.
> >> >
> >> > Geoff
> >> >
> >> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >> >> Thanks!
> >> >>
> >> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
> >> define
> >> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> Norbi
> >> >>
> >> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> >> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
> >> be tied
> >> >> > to a
> >> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
> >> less sure
> >> >> > of as
> >> >> > the best solution)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> >> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> >> Norbi
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> >> >> 2006.06.12.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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RE: custom namespace
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
There's a new enhancement that allows you to create a base class and have
your HM services auto-wired in. It's available in 4.1.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gentry, Michael (Contractor) [mailto:michael_gentry@fanniemae.com]
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 11:41 AM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: RE: custom namespace
+1 (to Bryan and Geoff). I'm still mumbling over getVisit() (as an example)
being deprecated. Something as simple as getting your session in a
session-based application shouldn't require HM (or Annotations, which don't
work in Java 1.4.x, or XML for N pages to do an inject of the HM class (oh,
and <inject> doesn't inherit, so forget about a simple base class to put it
in)). The OOP approach was Just Fine as far as I'm concerned. The T3->T4
upgrade was fairly rough for me, and my applications are pretty small. Lots
of things changed and the docs, which I understand are difficult to write,
didn't provide enough useful information. Tapestry already had a big enough
learning curve, and then some of the simple things became difficult all in
the name of flexibility.
Thanks,
/dev/mrg
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:03 PM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: custom namespace
Dunno about that. I haven't tried Rails and am not familiar with the
implications of COP. I was agreeing with the sentiment against using
HiveMind for everyday things. I had a perfectly good set of
applications running in Tapestry3 last year and thought I was one of
those lucky developers that didn't feel much pain from the learning
curve. But upgrading to Tap4 felt like a bigger jump. Can't say
exactly why but HiveMind usually seemed to be involved when I got
stumped. My apps are back to fast and stable again, and I agree that
some things are cleaner now, the naming is more consistent and some more
plumbing code went away, but it took me a long time and a lot of
following this list. I don't mean to sound luddite, just reporting my
experience. Whenever I see a recommendation to use HiveMind to do some
little thing that was only a matter of OOP before, I feel the way Geoff
expressed.
James Carman wrote:
>So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a la
>Rails)?
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
>To: Tapestry users
>Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
>+1 for that rant.
>
>
>Geoff Longman wrote:
>
>
>
>>Good God No!
>>
>>While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
>>a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
>>
>>IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
>>be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
>>be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
>>particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
>>libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
>>writing a line of HM config.
>>
>>That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
>>everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
>>something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
>>mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
>>just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
>>in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
>>except in an appendix.
>>
>>end of rant!
>>
>>Geoff
>>
>>On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
>>>the mix
>>>via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
>>>override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
>>>something. That's the way I'd do it.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
>>>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
>>>To: Tapestry users
>>>Subject: Re: custom namespace
>>>
>>>I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
>>>issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
>>>Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Norbi
>>>
>>>Geoff Longman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
>>>>issue.
>>>>
>>>>Geoff
>>>>
>>>>On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>This means that I must force the user of my component library to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>define
>>>
>>>
>>>>>my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Norbi
>>>>>
>>>>>Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>be tied
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>to a
>>>>>>.library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>less sure
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>of as
>>>>>>the best solution)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>>>>>>>How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>>Norbi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>2006.06.12.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
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RE: custom namespace
Posted by "Gentry, Michael (Contractor)" <mi...@fanniemae.com>.
+1 (to Bryan and Geoff). I'm still mumbling over getVisit() (as an example) being deprecated. Something as simple as getting your session in a session-based application shouldn't require HM (or Annotations, which don't work in Java 1.4.x, or XML for N pages to do an inject of the HM class (oh, and <inject> doesn't inherit, so forget about a simple base class to put it in)). The OOP approach was Just Fine as far as I'm concerned. The T3->T4 upgrade was fairly rough for me, and my applications are pretty small. Lots of things changed and the docs, which I understand are difficult to write, didn't provide enough useful information. Tapestry already had a big enough learning curve, and then some of the simple things became difficult all in the name of flexibility.
Thanks,
/dev/mrg
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:03 PM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: custom namespace
Dunno about that. I haven't tried Rails and am not familiar with the
implications of COP. I was agreeing with the sentiment against using
HiveMind for everyday things. I had a perfectly good set of
applications running in Tapestry3 last year and thought I was one of
those lucky developers that didn't feel much pain from the learning
curve. But upgrading to Tap4 felt like a bigger jump. Can't say
exactly why but HiveMind usually seemed to be involved when I got
stumped. My apps are back to fast and stable again, and I agree that
some things are cleaner now, the naming is more consistent and some more
plumbing code went away, but it took me a long time and a lot of
following this list. I don't mean to sound luddite, just reporting my
experience. Whenever I see a recommendation to use HiveMind to do some
little thing that was only a matter of OOP before, I feel the way Geoff
expressed.
James Carman wrote:
>So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a la
>Rails)?
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
>To: Tapestry users
>Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
>+1 for that rant.
>
>
>Geoff Longman wrote:
>
>
>
>>Good God No!
>>
>>While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
>>a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
>>
>>IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
>>be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
>>be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
>>particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
>>libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
>>writing a line of HM config.
>>
>>That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
>>everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
>>something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
>>mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
>>just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
>>in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
>>except in an appendix.
>>
>>end of rant!
>>
>>Geoff
>>
>>On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
>>>the mix
>>>via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
>>>override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
>>>something. That's the way I'd do it.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
>>>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
>>>To: Tapestry users
>>>Subject: Re: custom namespace
>>>
>>>I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
>>>issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
>>>Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Norbi
>>>
>>>Geoff Longman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
>>>>issue.
>>>>
>>>>Geoff
>>>>
>>>>On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>This means that I must force the user of my component library to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>define
>>>
>>>
>>>>>my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Norbi
>>>>>
>>>>>Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>be tied
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>to a
>>>>>>.library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>less sure
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>of as
>>>>>>the best solution)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>>>>>>>How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>>Norbi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>2006.06.12.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: custom namespace
Posted by Bryan Lewis <br...@maine.rr.com>.
Dunno about that. I haven't tried Rails and am not familiar with the
implications of COP. I was agreeing with the sentiment against using
HiveMind for everyday things. I had a perfectly good set of
applications running in Tapestry3 last year and thought I was one of
those lucky developers that didn't feel much pain from the learning
curve. But upgrading to Tap4 felt like a bigger jump. Can't say
exactly why but HiveMind usually seemed to be involved when I got
stumped. My apps are back to fast and stable again, and I agree that
some things are cleaner now, the naming is more consistent and some more
plumbing code went away, but it took me a long time and a lot of
following this list. I don't mean to sound luddite, just reporting my
experience. Whenever I see a recommendation to use HiveMind to do some
little thing that was only a matter of OOP before, I feel the way Geoff
expressed.
James Carman wrote:
>So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a la
>Rails)?
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
>To: Tapestry users
>Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
>+1 for that rant.
>
>
>Geoff Longman wrote:
>
>
>
>>Good God No!
>>
>>While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
>>a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
>>
>>IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
>>be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
>>be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
>>particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
>>libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
>>writing a line of HM config.
>>
>>That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
>>everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
>>something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
>>mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
>>just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
>>in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
>>except in an appendix.
>>
>>end of rant!
>>
>>Geoff
>>
>>On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
>>>the mix
>>>via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
>>>override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
>>>something. That's the way I'd do it.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
>>>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
>>>To: Tapestry users
>>>Subject: Re: custom namespace
>>>
>>>I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
>>>issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
>>>Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Norbi
>>>
>>>Geoff Longman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
>>>>issue.
>>>>
>>>>Geoff
>>>>
>>>>On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>This means that I must force the user of my component library to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>define
>>>
>>>
>>>>>my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Norbi
>>>>>
>>>>>Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>be tied
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>to a
>>>>>>.library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>less sure
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>of as
>>>>>>the best solution)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>>>>>>>How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>>Norbi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>2006.06.12.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
RE: custom namespace
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
So, you want Tapestry to switch to convention-oriented programming (a la
Rails)?
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Lewis [mailto:bryan@maine.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:20 PM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: custom namespace
+1 for that rant.
Geoff Longman wrote:
> Good God No!
>
> While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
>
> IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> writing a line of HM config.
>
> That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> except in an appendix.
>
> end of rant!
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
>
>> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
>> the mix
>> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
>> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
>> something. That's the way I'd do it.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
>> To: Tapestry users
>> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>>
>> I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
>> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
>> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Norbi
>>
>> Geoff Longman wrote:
>> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
>> > issue.
>> >
>> > Geoff
>> >
>> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
>> define
>> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Norbi
>> >>
>> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
>> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
>> be tied
>> >> > to a
>> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
>> less sure
>> >> > of as
>> >> > the best solution)
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Regards,
>> >> >> Norbi
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
>> >> 2006.06.12.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: custom namespace
Posted by Bryan Lewis <br...@maine.rr.com>.
+1 for that rant.
Geoff Longman wrote:
> Good God No!
>
> While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
>
> IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> writing a line of HM config.
>
> That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> except in an appendix.
>
> end of rant!
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
>
>> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to
>> the mix
>> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
>> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
>> something. That's the way I'd do it.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
>> To: Tapestry users
>> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>>
>> I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
>> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
>> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Norbi
>>
>> Geoff Longman wrote:
>> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
>> > issue.
>> >
>> > Geoff
>> >
>> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to
>> define
>> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Norbi
>> >>
>> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
>> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can
>> be tied
>> >> > to a
>> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm
>> less sure
>> >> > of as
>> >> > the best solution)
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Regards,
>> >> >> Norbi
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
>> >> 2006.06.12.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com>.
I would love such an extension.
It would be great if the user would not "know" about internal components
and pages.
Regards,
Norbi
James Carman wrote:
> In this case, HiveMind would only be necessary if you wanted to override the
> default namespace of the library. Library "authors" should be knowledgeable
> enough with HiveMind to at least do a contribution...
>
> <contribution configuration-id="tapestry.Libraries">
> <library specification="com/myco/mylibrary.library" />
> </contribution>
>
> Something like that.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:09 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
> Good God No!
>
> While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
> a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
>
> IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
> be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
> be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
> particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
> libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
> writing a line of HM config.
>
> That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
> everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
> something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
> mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
> just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
> in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
> except in an appendix.
>
> end of rant!
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
>
>> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to the
>>
> mix
>
>> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
>> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
>> something. That's the way I'd do it.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
>> To: Tapestry users
>> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>>
>> I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
>> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
>> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Norbi
>>
>> Geoff Longman wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
>>> issue.
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>> On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> This means that I must force the user of my component library to define
>>>> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Norbi
>>>>
>>>> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be
>>>>>
> tied
>
>>>>> to a
>>>>> .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less
>>>>>
> sure
>
>>>>> of as
>>>>> the best solution)
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>>>>>> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Norbi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
>>>>>
>>>> 2006.06.12.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
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RE: custom namespace
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
In this case, HiveMind would only be necessary if you wanted to override the
default namespace of the library. Library "authors" should be knowledgeable
enough with HiveMind to at least do a contribution...
<contribution configuration-id="tapestry.Libraries">
<library specification="com/myco/mylibrary.library" />
</contribution>
Something like that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:09 PM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: custom namespace
Good God No!
While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
writing a line of HM config.
That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
except in an appendix.
end of rant!
Geoff
On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to the
mix
> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> something. That's the way I'd do it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
> I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
>
> Regards,
> Norbi
>
> Geoff Longman wrote:
> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> > issue.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to define
> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Norbi
> >>
> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be
tied
> >> > to a
> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less
sure
> >> > of as
> >> > the best solution)
> >> >
> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >>
> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> Norbi
> >> >>
> >> >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> >> 2006.06.12.
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
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Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
Good God No!
While I love the idea of auto discovery of libraries, every time I see
a quick suggestion to use Hivemind I cringe.
IMO HM is *required* to do too many everyday things in T4. HM should
be relegated to use when the *implementation of the runtime* needs to
be changed or enhanced because a convention doesn't handle a
particular case. A normal everyday user should be able to build
libraries, have full featured ASO's, and build services without ever
writing a line of HM config.
That puts a lot more pressure on the committers to identify the
everyday tasks and find intelligent conventions for users to do
something without writing HM code. That doesn't mean HM is out of the
mix, it's just out of sight and available for those 1% cases where you
just have to make Tap behave differently from the convention. Really,
in a perfect world the Tapestry docs would make no reference to HM
except in an appendix.
end of rant!
Geoff
On 6/15/06, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to the mix
> via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
> override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
> something. That's the way I'd do it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Re: custom namespace
>
> I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
> issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
> Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
>
> Regards,
> Norbi
>
> Geoff Longman wrote:
> > Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> > issue.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> This means that I must force the user of my component library to define
> >> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Norbi
> >>
> >> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> >> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be tied
> >> > to a
> >> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less sure
> >> > of as
> >> > the best solution)
> >> >
> >> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >>
> >> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> >> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> Norbi
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
> >> 2006.06.12.
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
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Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
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RE: custom namespace
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
It would be nice if the component libraries could add themselves to the mix
via a HiveMind contribution. Of course, they would allow "users" to
override their default namespace via a symbol override contribution or
something. That's the way I'd do it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Norbert Sándor [mailto:developer@erinors.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:27 PM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: custom namespace
I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
Regards,
Norbi
Geoff Longman wrote:
> Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> issue.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>> Thanks!
>>
>> This means that I must force the user of my component library to define
>> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Norbi
>>
>> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
>> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be tied
>> > to a
>> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less sure
>> > of as
>> > the best solution)
>> >
>> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Norbi
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
>> 2006.06.12.
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com>.
I use many such component libraries which means that because of this
issue, many libraries must be specified "by hand".
Not a big problem, just tried to avoid it :)
Regards,
Norbi
Geoff Longman wrote:
> Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same
> issue.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>> Thanks!
>>
>> This means that I must force the user of my component library to define
>> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Norbi
>>
>> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
>> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be tied
>> > to a
>> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less sure
>> > of as
>> > the best solution)
>> >
>> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Norbi
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date:
>> 2006.06.12.
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
Yes, that's true. But is that really a problem? Contrib has the same issue.
Geoff
On 6/15/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> This means that I must force the user of my component library to define
> my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
>
> Regards,
> Norbi
>
> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be tied
> > to a
> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less sure
> > of as
> > the best solution)
> >
> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Norbi
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date: 2006.06.12.
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
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Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com>.
Thanks!
This means that I must force the user of my component library to define
my library with a fix alias in the .application file.
Regards,
Norbi
Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be tied
> to a
> .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less sure
> of as
> the best solution)
>
> On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Norbi
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date: 2006.06.12.
>
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
Short answer is you can't. The namespaces are created by parsing
.application or .library files. Except for Framework.library - which
is a special case, every library must be declared in a "parent"
namespace specification file as that's the mechanism Tapestry has to
"discover" nested namespaces.
Geoff
On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> What I exactly need is to be able to access a page defined in a library,
> which library is NOT defined in the .application file, therefore it is
> not accessible using the common namespaces.
> What would be the best way for this?
>
> Regards,
> Norbi
>
> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be tied
> > to a
> > .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less sure
> > of as
> > the best solution)
> >
> > On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> >> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Norbi
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date: 2006.06.12.
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com>.
What I exactly need is to be able to access a page defined in a library,
which library is NOT defined in the .application file, therefore it is
not accessible using the common namespaces.
What would be the best way for this?
Regards,
Norbi
Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be tied
> to a
> .library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less sure
> of as
> the best solution)
>
> On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
>> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Norbi
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date: 2006.06.12.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: custom namespace
Posted by Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>.
You mean like contrib or tacos? I think the namespace name can be tied to a
.library file via your .application configuration. (this I'm less sure of as
the best solution)
On 6/14/06, Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> By default there are 2 namespaces: framework and application.
> How can I define my own, custom namespace?
>
> Regards,
> Norbi
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Jesse Kuhnert
Tacos/Tapestry, team member/developer
Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind.