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Posted to java-dev@axis.apache.org by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> on 2005/08/19 02:23:45 UTC
[VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
Team,
Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
with open arms to Axis2.
Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
thanks,
dims
On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of better
> tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
> start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
> versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get this
> thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2 list
> for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails on
> this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware of
> the discussion.
>
> While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models to
> (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot work
> with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing classes
> using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it very
> difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to developing web
> services, since the users then have little or no control over the
> schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC 1.0-style
> doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to work with
> evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be regenerated
> every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
> writing a translation layer into their applications to take the data
> from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures actually
> used by their main application code.
>
> There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions between
> Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework. JAXB
> 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the email
> exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for working with
> frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
>
> Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics and
> refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
> everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost the
> opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything (though
> there is a tool which will generate a default binding automatically,
> with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
> providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a JiBX
> binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and allowing
> overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX binding. The
> way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the current
> schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every step
> of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the change
> reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be able to
> go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding automatically
> reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and have
> the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches). I've
> been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving it in
> this direction.
>
> Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the possibility of
> building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with different
> frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
> general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
> integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would leave
> the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
> instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes, and to
> handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form that
> takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB, etc.).
>
> What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and start
> putting this together? ;-)
>
> - Dennis
>
--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform
Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
Posted by Venkat Reddy <vr...@gmail.com>.
+1 for Dennis as Axis2 committer.
On 8/19/05, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Team,
> Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
> with open arms to Axis2.
>
> Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
>
> On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> > I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of better
> > tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
> > start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
> > versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get this
> > thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2 list
> > for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails on
> > this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware of
> > the discussion.
> >
> > While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models to
> > (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot work
> > with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing classes
> > using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it very
> > difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to developing web
> > services, since the users then have little or no control over the
> > schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC 1.0-style
> > doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to work with
> > evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be regenerated
> > every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
> > writing a translation layer into their applications to take the data
> > from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures actually
> > used by their main application code.
> >
> > There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions between
> > Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework. JAXB
> > 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the email
> > exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for working with
> > frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
> >
> > Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics and
> > refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
> > everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost the
> > opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything (though
> > there is a tool which will generate a default binding automatically,
> > with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
> > providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a JiBX
> > binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and allowing
> > overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX binding. The
> > way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the current
> > schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every step
> > of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the change
> > reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be able to
> > go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding automatically
> > reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and have
> > the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches). I've
> > been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving it in
> > this direction.
> >
> > Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the possibility of
> > building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with different
> > frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
> > general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
> > integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would leave
> > the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
> > instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes, and to
> > handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form that
> > takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB, etc.).
> >
> > What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and start
> > putting this together? ;-)
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform
>
Re: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2]
Better Java-XML mapping)
Posted by Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com>.
Yes, dims asked me ahead of time and I said I was definitely interested.
Of course, that was before he -1'ed me using "dms" as my apache id...
- Dennis
Dennis M. Sosnoski
Enterprise Java, XML, and Web Services
Training and Consulting
http://www.sosnoski.com
Redmond, WA 425.885.7197
Aleksander Slominski wrote:
> +1
>
> if Dennis is interested then it would be great addition to Axis2 team!
>
> alek
>
> chathura@opensource.lk wrote:
>
>> here is my +1
>> Chathura
>>
>>
>>
>>> +1,
>>> welcome Dennis :-)
>>>
>>> - Ruchith
>>>
>>> On 8/19/05, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Team,
>>>> Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
>>>> with open arms to Axis2.
>>>>
>>>> Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of
>>>>> better
>>>>> tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
>>>>> start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
>>>>> versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get this
>>>>> thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2 list
>>>>> for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails on
>>>>> this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware of
>>>>> the discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models to
>>>>> (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot work
>>>>> with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing classes
>>>>> using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> very
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to developing
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> web
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> services, since the users then have little or no control over the
>>>>> schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC 1.0-style
>>>>> doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to work
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> with
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be regenerated
>>>>> every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
>>>>> writing a translation layer into their applications to take the data
>>>>> from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures actually
>>>>> used by their main application code.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> between
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework.
>>>>> JAXB
>>>>> 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the email
>>>>> exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for working
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> with
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics and
>>>>> refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
>>>>> everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost
>>>>> the
>>>>> opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything (though
>>>>> there is a tool which will generate a default binding automatically,
>>>>> with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
>>>>> providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JiBX
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and allowing
>>>>> overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX binding.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the current
>>>>> schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every
>>>>> step
>>>>> of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> change
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be
>>>>> able to
>>>>> go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> automatically
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and
>>>>> have
>>>>> the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches). I've
>>>>> been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving it
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> this direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the
>>>>> possibility of
>>>>> building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with different
>>>>> frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
>>>>> general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
>>>>> integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would leave
>>>>> the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
>>>>> instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes, and
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form that
>>>>> takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB,
>>>>> etc.).
>>>>>
>>>>> What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and start
>>>>> putting this together? ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> - Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service
>>>> Platform
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ruchith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer
Posted by Eran Chinthaka <ch...@opensource.lk>.
+1. (Can I add more :)).
Dennis, it's nice to have someone like you with us working for Axis2.
Welcome aboard.
-- Chinthaka
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aleksander Slominski [mailto:aslom@cs.indiana.edu]
> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:25 AM
> To: axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: [Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re:
> [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
>
> +1
>
> if Dennis is interested then it would be great addition to Axis2 team!
>
> alek
>
> chathura@opensource.lk wrote:
>
> >here is my +1
> >Chathura
> >
> >
> >
> >>+1,
> >>welcome Dennis :-)
> >>
> >>- Ruchith
> >>
> >>On 8/19/05, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Team,
> >>>Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
> >>>with open arms to Axis2.
> >>>
> >>>Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
> >>>
> >>>thanks,
> >>>dims
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of better
> >>>>tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
> >>>>start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
> >>>>versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get this
> >>>>thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2 list
> >>>>for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails on
> >>>>this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware of
> >>>>the discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>>While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models to
> >>>>(more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot work
> >>>>with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing classes
> >>>>using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>very
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to developing
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>web
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>services, since the users then have little or no control over the
> >>>>schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC 1.0-style
> >>>>doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to work
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>with
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be regenerated
> >>>>every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
> >>>>writing a translation layer into their applications to take the data
> >>>>from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures actually
> >>>>used by their main application code.
> >>>>
> >>>>There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>between
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework. JAXB
> >>>>2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the email
> >>>>exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for working
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>with
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
> >>>>
> >>>>Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics and
> >>>>refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
> >>>>everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost the
> >>>>opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything (though
> >>>>there is a tool which will generate a default binding automatically,
> >>>>with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
> >>>>providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>JiBX
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and allowing
> >>>>overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX binding.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>The
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the current
> >>>>schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every step
> >>>>of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>change
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be able to
> >>>>go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>automatically
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and have
> >>>>the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches). I've
> >>>>been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>this direction.
> >>>>
> >>>>Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the possibility of
> >>>>building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with different
> >>>>frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
> >>>>general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
> >>>>integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would leave
> >>>>the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
> >>>>instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes, and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form that
> >>>>takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB, etc.).
> >>>>
> >>>>What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and start
> >>>>putting this together? ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> - Dennis
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>--
> >>>Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service
> >>>Platform
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Ruchith
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
>
[Axis2] Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2]
Better Java-XML mapping)
Posted by Aleksander Slominski <as...@cs.indiana.edu>.
+1
if Dennis is interested then it would be great addition to Axis2 team!
alek
chathura@opensource.lk wrote:
>here is my +1
>Chathura
>
>
>
>>+1,
>>welcome Dennis :-)
>>
>>- Ruchith
>>
>>On 8/19/05, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Team,
>>>Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
>>>with open arms to Axis2.
>>>
>>>Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
>>>
>>>thanks,
>>>dims
>>>
>>>
>>>On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of better
>>>>tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
>>>>start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
>>>>versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get this
>>>>thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2 list
>>>>for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails on
>>>>this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware of
>>>>the discussion.
>>>>
>>>>While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models to
>>>>(more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot work
>>>>with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing classes
>>>>using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>very
>>>
>>>
>>>>difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to developing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>web
>>>
>>>
>>>>services, since the users then have little or no control over the
>>>>schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC 1.0-style
>>>>doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to work
>>>>
>>>>
>>>with
>>>
>>>
>>>>evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be regenerated
>>>>every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
>>>>writing a translation layer into their applications to take the data
>>>>from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures actually
>>>>used by their main application code.
>>>>
>>>>There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>between
>>>
>>>
>>>>Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework. JAXB
>>>>2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the email
>>>>exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for working
>>>>
>>>>
>>>with
>>>
>>>
>>>>frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
>>>>
>>>>Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics and
>>>>refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
>>>>everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost the
>>>>opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything (though
>>>>there is a tool which will generate a default binding automatically,
>>>>with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
>>>>providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>JiBX
>>>
>>>
>>>>binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and allowing
>>>>overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX binding.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>The
>>>
>>>
>>>>way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the current
>>>>schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every step
>>>>of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>change
>>>
>>>
>>>>reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be able to
>>>>go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding
>>>>
>>>>
>>>automatically
>>>
>>>
>>>>reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and have
>>>>the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches). I've
>>>>been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>in
>>>
>>>
>>>>this direction.
>>>>
>>>>Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the possibility of
>>>>building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with different
>>>>frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
>>>>general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
>>>>integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would leave
>>>>the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
>>>>instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes, and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form that
>>>>takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB, etc.).
>>>>
>>>>What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and start
>>>>putting this together? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> - Dennis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>--
>>>Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service
>>>Platform
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Ruchith
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2] Better
Java-XML mapping)
Posted by ch...@opensource.lk.
here is my +1
Chathura
> +1,
> welcome Dennis :-)
>
> - Ruchith
>
> On 8/19/05, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Team,
>> Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
>> with open arms to Axis2.
>>
>> Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>>
>> On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
>> > I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of better
>> > tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
>> > start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
>> > versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get this
>> > thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2 list
>> > for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails on
>> > this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware of
>> > the discussion.
>> >
>> > While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models to
>> > (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot work
>> > with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing classes
>> > using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it
>> very
>> > difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to developing
>> web
>> > services, since the users then have little or no control over the
>> > schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC 1.0-style
>> > doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to work
>> with
>> > evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be regenerated
>> > every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
>> > writing a translation layer into their applications to take the data
>> > from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures actually
>> > used by their main application code.
>> >
>> > There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions
>> between
>> > Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework. JAXB
>> > 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the email
>> > exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for working
>> with
>> > frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
>> >
>> > Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics and
>> > refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
>> > everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost the
>> > opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything (though
>> > there is a tool which will generate a default binding automatically,
>> > with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
>> > providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a
>> JiBX
>> > binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and allowing
>> > overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX binding.
>> The
>> > way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the current
>> > schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every step
>> > of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the
>> change
>> > reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be able to
>> > go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding
>> automatically
>> > reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and have
>> > the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches). I've
>> > been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving it
>> in
>> > this direction.
>> >
>> > Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the possibility of
>> > building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with different
>> > frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
>> > general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
>> > integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would leave
>> > the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
>> > instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes, and
>> to
>> > handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form that
>> > takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB, etc.).
>> >
>> > What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and start
>> > putting this together? ;-)
>> >
>> > - Dennis
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service
>> Platform
>>
>
>
> --
> Ruchith
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
Posted by Ruchith Fernando <ru...@gmail.com>.
+1,
welcome Dennis :-)
- Ruchith
On 8/19/05, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Team,
> Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
> with open arms to Axis2.
>
> Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
>
> On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> > I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of better
> > tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
> > start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
> > versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get this
> > thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2 list
> > for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails on
> > this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware of
> > the discussion.
> >
> > While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models to
> > (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot work
> > with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing classes
> > using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it very
> > difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to developing web
> > services, since the users then have little or no control over the
> > schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC 1.0-style
> > doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to work with
> > evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be regenerated
> > every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
> > writing a translation layer into their applications to take the data
> > from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures actually
> > used by their main application code.
> >
> > There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions between
> > Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework. JAXB
> > 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the email
> > exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for working with
> > frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
> >
> > Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics and
> > refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
> > everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost the
> > opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything (though
> > there is a tool which will generate a default binding automatically,
> > with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
> > providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a JiBX
> > binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and allowing
> > overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX binding. The
> > way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the current
> > schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every step
> > of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the change
> > reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be able to
> > go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding automatically
> > reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and have
> > the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches). I've
> > been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving it in
> > this direction.
> >
> > Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the possibility of
> > building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with different
> > frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
> > general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
> > integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would leave
> > the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
> > instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes, and to
> > handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form that
> > takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB, etc.).
> >
> > What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and start
> > putting this together? ;-)
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform
>
--
Ruchith
Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2] Better Java-XML mapping)
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Only caveat...We should not let him use "dms" as his apache id :) too
close to "dims" :) :)
On 8/18/05, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Team,
> Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
> with open arms to Axis2.
>
> Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
>
> On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> > I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of better
> > tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
> > start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
> > versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get this
> > thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2 list
> > for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails on
> > this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware of
> > the discussion.
> >
> > While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models to
> > (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot work
> > with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing classes
> > using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it very
> > difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to developing web
> > services, since the users then have little or no control over the
> > schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC 1.0-style
> > doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to work with
> > evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be regenerated
> > every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
> > writing a translation layer into their applications to take the data
> > from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures actually
> > used by their main application code.
> >
> > There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions between
> > Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework. JAXB
> > 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the email
> > exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for working with
> > frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
> >
> > Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics and
> > refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
> > everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost the
> > opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything (though
> > there is a tool which will generate a default binding automatically,
> > with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
> > providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a JiBX
> > binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and allowing
> > overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX binding. The
> > way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the current
> > schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every step
> > of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the change
> > reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be able to
> > go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding automatically
> > reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and have
> > the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches). I've
> > been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving it in
> > this direction.
> >
> > Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the possibility of
> > building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with different
> > frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
> > general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
> > integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would leave
> > the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
> > instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes, and to
> > handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form that
> > takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB, etc.).
> >
> > What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and start
> > putting this together? ;-)
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform
>
--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform
Re: [VOTE] Dennis Sosnoski for Axis2 committer (Re: [Axis2] Better
Java-XML mapping)
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
+1! Welcome aboard Dennis .. looking forward to your great
contributions!
Sanjiva.
On Thu, 2005-08-18 at 20:23 -0400, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Team,
> Dennis has been a long time contributor to Axis...Let's welcome him
> with open arms to Axis2.
>
> Here's my +1 to Dennis for Axis2 committer.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
>
> On 8/18/05, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> > I've been having some off-list email exchanges on the issues of better
> > tools for going between Java and XML. This is relevant to both
> > start-from-Java approaches to web services, and handling schema
> > versioning. Since these issues are important for Axis2 I'll get this
> > thread going here, assuming nobody objects to us using the Axis2 list
> > for this purpose. I'm copying the jibx-devs list on my own emails on
> > this topic just so that people monitoring that list are also aware of
> > the discussion.
> >
> > While we have a number of tools for generating Java object models to
> > (more or less) match a schema, most of these tools either cannot work
> > with pre-existing Java classes or can only work with existing classes
> > using their own built-in correspondences. This limitation makes it very
> > difficult for users to take a start-from-Java approach to developing web
> > services, since the users then have little or no control over the
> > schemas used by the web service (as seen with the JAX-RPC 1.0-style
> > doc/lit mapping). It also makes it very difficult for users to work with
> > evolving schemas, since their data model will need to be regenerated
> > every time the schema changes. Because of this, users often end up
> > writing a translation layer into their applications to take the data
> > from the schema-centric model and convert it into structures actually
> > used by their main application code.
> >
> > There are some libraries which provide more flexible conversions between
> > Java and XML, including Betwixt as well as my own JiBX framework. JAXB
> > 2.0 is also taking steps in this direction. The subject of the email
> > exchanges has been the desirability of better GUI tools for working with
> > frameworks which support such flexible conversions.
> >
> > Betwixt seems to offer very good support for starting from basics and
> > refining the mapping as you go. It basically offers defaults for
> > everything, then lets you override the defaults. JiBX takes almost the
> > opposite approach, requiring the user to specify everything (though
> > there is a tool which will generate a default binding automatically,
> > with a variety of overrides). I can certainly see the benefits to
> > providing a tool that allows an interactive approach to building a JiBX
> > binding, basically starting with Betwixt-like defaults and allowing
> > overrides at every step of the way down to a detailed JiBX binding. The
> > way I envision it this should show sample XML output (or the current
> > schema, for those developers able to understand schemas) at every step
> > of the way - when you change the binding, you immediately get the change
> > reflected in the schema/sample XML. Ideally you should even be able to
> > go the other way - modify the schema, and have the binding automatically
> > reflect the change (or replace the schema with a new version, and have
> > the binding adjust as best it can and then flag the mismatches). I've
> > been adding hooks to JiBX for some time with the intent of moving it in
> > this direction.
> >
> > Much of the off-list discussion has revolved around the possibility of
> > building a generic tool of this type, one able to work with different
> > frameworks. On thinking it over, it seems to me that at least the
> > general framework of the tool should be reusable - say the IDE
> > integration and XML/schema display and manipulation. That would leave
> > the need to write plugins for each binding framework to handle XML
> > instance and schema generation from a binding and set of classes, and to
> > handle editing the actual binding definition (in whatever form that
> > takes - an XML file for Betwixt and JiBX, annotations for JAXB, etc.).
> >
> > What do people think of this? Anyone want to jump right in and start
> > putting this together? ;-)
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
>
>