Re: [VOTE] SOC temporary committer Anders Nyman

[Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>]

Tim Funk wrote:
> As part of the Google SOC. Google accepted the tomcat-reverse-proxy 
> project to be executed by Anders Nyman ( anders.nyman at gmail  d ot  
> com  )
> 
> 
> [ ] Sounds good to me
> [ ] I'm indifferent
> [X] I don't like it. Here's why
> 

IMO the reverse proxy is a good thing to be done, and Tomcat can
benefit from it. I doubt if the balancer is a good place for such
addition.

Also I agree with Yoav. If the code is good, and if it works I see
no reason why not including it in the code.

I have developed, and I am developing the majority of the code
without being connected to the CVS all the time.

Regards,
Mladen.

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Re: [VOTE] SOC temporary committer Anders Nyman

[Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>]

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> At 01:25 PM 7/11/2005, you wrote:
> 
>>William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>>It's important for students involved with SoC to learn to use
>>>the tools of our organization;
>>
>>I don't agree with you. The Tomcat is not place for some
>>'sandbox' projects.
>>If the ASF have some agreement with Google then it should
>>have created a 'SoC Google sandbox' not trying to force
>>every project to create a 'Google sandbox'.
> 
> 
> The ASF didn't agree with Google that 'we need more code'
> (many projects seem overwhelmed at times by the amount of code
> they manage already, no slight intended...)  The ASF agreed that 
> Open Source needs to continue to grow in contributors.
> 
> The only way to grow more contributors is to have them learn
> in-place.  The mentor's job is to help them set up, avoid the
> usual foibles, help them participate in the community, and do
> a bit of steering of the project.  Because the entire pace is
> 'accelerated' it is humanistically challenging, but far from
> impossible to bring an individual up to speed over a month or
> few.
> 
> So it's unusual, and we aren't handing away keys to the entire
> kingdom.  But setting up a sandbox (not your problem, it's the
> mentors) and watching the progress (if it scratches your itch)
> is not an imposition on the individual project communities.

Ok, so if we say it's the mentor's responsability, then it should be 
fine. I'll let the persons I'm mentoring know about the infrstructure we 
chose, then.

Rémy

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Re: [VOTE] SOC temporary committer Anders Nyman

["William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>]

At 03:48 AM 7/12/2005, Mladen Turk wrote:

>Well if Tim wants to mentor that project, then fine with me.
>I'm sure he will ensure the integrity of the Tomcat source
>outside that 'sandbox' repository.

Exactly the point; there were no SoC participants who did not
have mentors.  If this slides into the Tomcat CVS, the mentor
will help with calling the vote, following procedures, etc.

>If the project will have access and modify the files outside
>that repository, I'll be strongly against that.

No; I don't think anyone is asking for the SoC participants to
have live access on projects that have strong traditions of
merit-before-commit privileges.  Some projects are much loser
granting commit, such projects would probably just add another
committer for the summer.

>I'm sure the Tim will find a solution for a files that needs to
>be changed and that are are of the core, by simply mirroring
>them to the sandbox repository or something similar.

Or merging back the outcome with history.

I just wanted to point out three other things;

  * it's really much easier if the sandbox is in svn:, such
    users don't need accounts on a box.

  * no matter if cvs or svn, the sandbox commits must 
    be broadcast to jakarta-module-{component}-cvs@apache...
    read or ignore them as you please.  And please don't
    complain about the outcome if you didn't feel like actually
    following the progress :)

  * development discussion under the tomcat umbrella should
    occur on tomcat-dev@jakarta, the whole point is for the
    participants to follow the day to day life of a project,
    and be welcome to put forward proposals and accept feedback.

Bill  


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Re: [VOTE] SOC temporary committer Anders Nyman

[Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>]

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> At 01:25 PM 7/11/2005, you wrote:
>>If the ASF have some agreement with Google then it should
>>have created a 'SoC Google sandbox' not trying to force
>>every project to create a 'Google sandbox'.
> 
> 
> So it's unusual, and we aren't handing away keys to the entire
> kingdom.  But setting up a sandbox (not your problem, it's the
> mentors) and watching the progress (if it scratches your itch)
> is not an imposition on the individual project communities.
>

Well if Tim wants to mentor that project, then fine with me.
I'm sure he will ensure the integrity of the Tomcat source
outside that 'sandbox' repository.

If the project will have access and modify the files outside
that repository, I'll be strongly against that.

I'm sure the Tim will find a solution for a files that needs to
be changed and that are are of the core, by simply mirroring
them to the sandbox repository or something similar.

Regards,
Mladen.

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Re: [VOTE] SOC temporary committer Anders Nyman

["William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>]

At 01:25 PM 7/11/2005, you wrote:
>William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>It's important for students involved with SoC to learn to use
>>the tools of our organization;
>
>I don't agree with you. The Tomcat is not place for some
>'sandbox' projects.
>If the ASF have some agreement with Google then it should
>have created a 'SoC Google sandbox' not trying to force
>every project to create a 'Google sandbox'.

The ASF didn't agree with Google that 'we need more code'
(many projects seem overwhelmed at times by the amount of code
they manage already, no slight intended...)  The ASF agreed that 
Open Source needs to continue to grow in contributors.

The only way to grow more contributors is to have them learn
in-place.  The mentor's job is to help them set up, avoid the
usual foibles, help them participate in the community, and do
a bit of steering of the project.  Because the entire pace is
'accelerated' it is humanistically challenging, but far from
impossible to bring an individual up to speed over a month or
few.

So it's unusual, and we aren't handing away keys to the entire
kingdom.  But setting up a sandbox (not your problem, it's the
mentors) and watching the progress (if it scratches your itch)
is not an imposition on the individual project communities.

Bill



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Re: [VOTE] SOC temporary committer Anders Nyman

[Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>]

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> 
> 
> It's important for students involved with SoC to learn to use
> the tools of our organization;

I don't agree with you. The Tomcat is not place for some
'sandbox' projects.
If the ASF have some agreement with Google then it should
have created a 'SoC Google sandbox' not trying to force
every project to create a 'Google sandbox'.

Again, I have nothing against the effort or goals or ....


Regards,
Mladen.

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Re: [VOTE] SOC temporary committer Anders Nyman

["William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>]

At 12:52 PM 7/11/2005, Mladen Turk wrote:

>I have developed, and I am developing the majority of the code
>without being connected to the CVS all the time.

It's important for students involved with SoC to learn to use
the tools of our organization; and it's equally important that
we capture the history and evolution of the code, from its
infancy through the process of peer review.  A code dump isn't
what we are looking for, and the code should be developed
incrementally with peer/mentor review.

-1 to any SoC happening outside of Tomcat's purview.  +1 to
creating a sandbox for this project so the effort can be
merged back in, trivially, if and when it's successful (that
includes successful peer review, the usual 3 +1's etc.)

Bill



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