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Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> on 2004/04/27 22:17:26 UTC
Re: Adding new Struts features/sub-projects (was [Bug 28609] - Scriptable Actions Support)
We might just follow the same general procedure we've used for Jakarta, the Commons, and the Incubator.
* A Struts subproject is created in response to a proposal to the DEV list.
* The proposal must be made by a Struts Committer and name two other Struts Committers who are willing to support the subproject.
* At least one of the three Committers must also be a Struts PMC member.
* The proposal is subject to a consensus vote, like any other product change.
(A consensus vote is subject to a binding veto. A majority vote, like we use for releases, is not.)
Of course, there are going to be other implicit criteria, like the code being donated to the ASF, the subproject being relevant and wildly popular, and so forth. But I don't think we need to spell all that out. So long as we have three willing vict -err- volunteers and a proposal subject to consensus, it'll sort itself out :)
I'd be happy to be one of the Committers named on a proposal to create a scripting subproject.
-Ted.
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RE: Adding new Struts features/sub-projects (was [Bug 28609] - Scriptable Actions Support)
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Brown [mailto:mrdon@twdata.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:10 PM
> To: Struts Developers List
> Subject: Re: Adding new Struts features/sub-projects (was [Bug 28609] -
> Scriptable Actions Support)
>
>
> I think it goes without saying I'd be on the list, but just in case...
> :) So, in this scripting subproject, could this perhaps someday host a
> continuations-based scripting flow implementation? Dave Johnson has
> been doing some good work pulling Cocoon's flow out of Cocoon and I
> think a Struts port would be a great asset for developing complex
> wizard-style workflows.
Now that sounds cool! It's not clear to me where the glue should live
though - see my earlier message.
--
Martin Cooper
> Normally, I'd get something working then add it
> to the Struts SF project, but with a whole scripting subproject, perhaps
> it might be more relevant there.
>
> BTW, I really like the guidelines Steve was working on and recommend we
> polish them up and post them on our site to make the distinctions clear
> to everyone. Specific mention of the SF site's role in Struts
> development would be very helpful as well.
>
> Don
>
> Joe Germuska wrote:
>
> >> I'd be happy to be one of the Committers named on a proposal to
> >> create a scripting subproject.
> >
> >
> > You can add me to that list.
> >
> > Joe
> >
>
>
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Re: Adding new Struts features/sub-projects (was [Bug 28609] -
Scriptable Actions Support)
Posted by Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org>.
I think it goes without saying I'd be on the list, but just in case...
:) So, in this scripting subproject, could this perhaps someday host a
continuations-based scripting flow implementation? Dave Johnson has
been doing some good work pulling Cocoon's flow out of Cocoon and I
think a Struts port would be a great asset for developing complex
wizard-style workflows. Normally, I'd get something working then add it
to the Struts SF project, but with a whole scripting subproject, perhaps
it might be more relevant there.
BTW, I really like the guidelines Steve was working on and recommend we
polish them up and post them on our site to make the distinctions clear
to everyone. Specific mention of the SF site's role in Struts
development would be very helpful as well.
Don
Joe Germuska wrote:
>> I'd be happy to be one of the Committers named on a proposal to
>> create a scripting subproject.
>
>
> You can add me to that list.
>
> Joe
>
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Re: Adding new Struts features/sub-projects (was [Bug 28609] -
Scriptable Actions Support)
Posted by Joe Germuska <Jo...@Germuska.com>.
>I'd be happy to be one of the Committers named on a proposal to
>create a scripting subproject.
You can add me to that list.
Joe
--
Joe Germuska
Joe@Germuska.com
http://blog.germuska.com
"Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them
the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and
nobody thinks of complaining."
-- Jef Raskin
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RE: Adding new Struts features/sub-projects (was [Bug 28609] - Scriptable Actions Support)
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:31:20 -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:
> I would hope that we would think *very* carefully before following
> the same or similar procedures as these projects. These are all
> "umbrella" projects, and the first two, at least, have clearly
> demonstrated the problems with such projects. (I haven't tracked
> the Incubator closely enough to know whether or not it has had the
> same issues.) The last thing I want to see is Struts becoming
> another umbrella project
Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, either. :)
An umbrella project is a granfaloon. It's an arbitrary collection of products that do not share a common community.
There was a theory that there was a "Java community" that could support something like Jakarta. In practice, we found that a common language doesn't build a common community (in the Apache sense of the word). It's not Java that binds developers together, but what we are *doing* with Java. In our case, Struts is what we are doing, and Struts is the foundation of our community.
A Struts project composed of subprojects for the Struts Core and several "standard" extensions that depend on that core would not be an "umbrella" project. It is a modular approach to distributing the Struts products maintained by the ASF. Another way to look at it is that we would be distributing the core and one or more "plugins" that people could use, or not. (Plugins in the generic sense, not the Struts class.)
It is very important to me that we continue to rationalize the Struts project. Once we cut a new Validator release, we can move directly to the Struts 1.2.1 release. (And I'l roll that release too, if no one else has the time.) Once that is done, we will be in a position to prototype a new CVS layout for 1.3.x, as agreed, that will better support Maven builds and can also break out the Core from Taglibs.
In the 1.3.x series, we can also bring Struts-Chain up from Contrib (as agreed), and start looking at alternatives to Actions. Whatever alternatives we find, if there is any coding involved, then I'm sure they could be scriptable too. :)
The stumbling block had been the Validator release. Now that we know it's ready for release, we can remove that impediment and move things along <yeah!/>
-Ted.
[And at any time during all this, I invite anyone interested to start laying code for 2.x.x. Test-first, please. :)]
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RE: Adding new Struts features/sub-projects (was [Bug 28609] - Scriptable Actions Support)
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Husted [mailto:husted@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 1:17 PM
> To: Struts Developers List
> Subject: Re: Adding new Struts features/sub-projects (was [Bug 28609] -
> Scriptable Actions Support)
>
>
> We might just follow the same general procedure we've used for
> Jakarta, the Commons, and the Incubator.
I would hope that we would think *very* carefully before following the same
or similar procedures as these projects. These are all "umbrella" projects,
and the first two, at least, have clearly demonstrated the problems with
such projects. (I haven't tracked the Incubator closely enough to know
whether or not it has had the same issues.) The last thing I want to see is
Struts becoming another umbrella project.
--
Martin Cooper
> * A Struts subproject is created in response to a proposal to the
> DEV list.
>
> * The proposal must be made by a Struts Committer and name two
> other Struts Committers who are willing to support the subproject.
>
> * At least one of the three Committers must also be a Struts PMC member.
>
> * The proposal is subject to a consensus vote, like any other
> product change.
>
> (A consensus vote is subject to a binding veto. A majority vote,
> like we use for releases, is not.)
>
> Of course, there are going to be other implicit criteria, like
> the code being donated to the ASF, the subproject being relevant
> and wildly popular, and so forth. But I don't think we need to
> spell all that out. So long as we have three willing vict -err-
> volunteers and a proposal subject to consensus, it'll sort itself out :)
>
> I'd be happy to be one of the Committers named on a proposal to
> create a scripting subproject.
>
> -Ted.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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