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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Ad...@eFunds.com on 2002/02/05 15:08:54 UTC
Re: Combining Cocoon with Struts Tag libs
Werner,
The situation is this:
1) I need to accomplish a validation of a 5 part form that is validated and
filled incrementally.
2) Take the contents of this composite form and create one xml from it's
contents.
3) Submit to a Transforming servlet that takes this xml and spits back an
xml response after retrieving info from a Mainframe app.
4a) Display xml response as a page with 6 tabs ( one page w/ layers or six
pages with links to the others)
4b) If there are errors in the response for any of the six parts it needs
to display the form with the corresponding inputs filled in for corrections
to be made.
5) Accept re-submission and re-validate
6) Submit reponse to back-end again, loop sequence.
This sequence is the bulk of the app. There is security and other stuff,
but that is the core of it.
The debate is over performance, use of languages, and ease of support.
With performance coming at the top of that list.
One other concern I have about splitting the architecture into two servlets
is session management. Where do I put the timeout logic is another
question I need to answer?
The developers not surprisingly are skeptic of anything that involves xml
based coding, instead of what they are comfortable with(Model 2).
I need to come up with a good reason not to use Struts.
-Adam
Werner Guttmann
<Werner.Guttmann@morgans To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org, ldexp-dev <ld...@ms.com>, ldwebdeb@ms.com
tanley.com> cc:
Subject: Re: Combining Cocoon with Struts Tag libs
06/17/02 10:53 AM
Please respond to
cocoon-users
Adam,
there's a couple of alternatives you seem to have, one of them using
XMLForms
et alias to implement functionality of Struts in Cocoon. As this
functionality
has only become available in the recent past, we have taken a different
approach using the XMLizable interface of Cocoon to integrate our business
domain model with both Struts and Coccon.
In our case, an inbound HTTP request is
1) picked up by Struts, which a) populates its FormBean(s) , and b)
forwards
to a pre-configured Action for additional validation. If successful, we
then
forward control to an XSP ... in order to avoid introducing dependencies
between Struts and Cocoon, we decided to implement our own set of JavaBeans
to
keep the set of parameters as selected in the HTML form, which we attached
to
the request/session scope as attributes.
b) On Coccon receiving the HTTP request (forward), Coocon kicked in and
invoked the relevant pipeline. That pipeline uses the ServerPages generator
to
invoke an XSP that uses the following code fragment:
<xsp:logic>
XMLizable xmlizable = new XTransformer();
</xsp:logic>
<some_entities><xsp:expr>xmlizable</xsp:expr></some_entities>
Cocoon - when processing the <xsp:exp> element - will invoke the
toSAX(ContentHandler) method on our XTransformer class, and expects this
method to insert SAX events into the event stream. In our case, for each
business entity we have a corresponding Transformer instance that uses the
aforementioned Criteria object, a business delegate and (potentially) a
value
list handler implementation to get a collection of business entities from
our
business backend, and render them to SAX events. From there on, it's
business
as usual with Cocoon executing the remainder of the pipeline.
Now, having followed some of the traffic on this list re: XMLForms, etc., I
am
under the impression that most of the stuff could (and maybe should) be
done
through the use of XMLForms, ValidatorAction, etc. Unfortunately, I have
not
had the time to evaluate the various offering (yet).
I hope this helps.
Werner
Adam_Waldal@eFunds.com wrote:
> Cocoon-Collective,
>
> I am still trying to make architecture decisions. I have a pretty good
> understanding of both Struts and Cocoon architectures. I have seen a
> couple of other people inquire about a hybrid solution using the
strengths
> in both. Has anyone considered or done this successfully and seemingly
> painlessly?
>
> I guess this really comes down to a comparison of xsp vs. jsp and which
to
> use. The other major consideration is performance, the system I need to
> build will be high traffic and transactional. Does anyone have a similar
> situation or opinion that will help my decision process?
>
> Thanks,
> Adam
>
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Re: Combining Cocoon with Struts Tag libs
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Although I am personally disinterested in JSP-related coding, I do think
some interface between XSP and struts taglibs would be a nice thing.
Mostly for a migration path. If someone is so motivated, they should
be encouraged.
-Andy
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Re: Combining Cocoon with Struts Tag libs
Posted by Werner Guttmann <We...@morganstanley.com>.
Adam,
not knowing XMLForms within Cocoon enough, I will simply try to address your concerns/issues with regards to having Struts as part of the
equation. Please see below.
Adam_Waldal@eFunds.com wrote:
> Werner,
>
> The situation is this:
>
> 1) I need to accomplish a validation of a 5 part form that is validated and
> filled incrementally.
> 2) Take the contents of this composite form and create one xml from it's
> contents.
> 3) Submit to a Transforming servlet that takes this xml and spits back an
> xml response after retrieving info from a Mainframe app.
> 4a) Display xml response as a page with 6 tabs ( one page w/ layers or six
> pages with links to the others)
> 4b) If there are errors in the response for any of the six parts it needs
> to display the form with the corresponding inputs filled in for corrections
> to be made.
> 5) Accept re-submission and re-validate
> 6) Submit reponse to back-end again, loop sequence.
>
If you have people out there that are comfortable with using Struts, there's no reason to not use Struts. Lookig at the above task list, I
would argue 1) and 2) and 4b), 5) and 6) can be done easily using Struts FormBeans and a short, custom-developed Action instance. 3) could be
done both from within a Struts action and a Coccon action .. should not make a difference.
Re: 4a), me thinks that it would be easier here using Coccon and its main concept, the pipeline, for the transformation required to produce
the final HTML. In the end, all that this is about is a transformation of such (structured) XML to HTML. Nothing really difficult ... and
definitely easier than unmarshalling the XML received from step 3) programatically in a JSP and producing the right HTML.
> This sequence is the bulk of the app. There is security and other stuff,
> but that is the core of it.
>
> The debate is over performance, use of languages, and ease of support.
Suport, maintainability .. I agree. And in this context I prefer an XML-based config file (whether with Struts or Cocoon does not matter) over
some logic hard-coded in a JSP or elsewhere .. in other words, using frameworks such as Struts and Cocoon helps you creating maintainable
applications as many people have spent a lot of time with these issues ... and have actually solved them. I really do not understand where
this myth that framework = complexity = slowness comes from. One would assume that one's employeer would pay you for delivering applications
that are well-designed and maintainable rather than fast only ...
> With performance coming at the top of that list.
As always .. though this should not be the case .. ;-).
> One other concern I have about splitting the architecture into two servlets
> is session management. Where do I put the timeout logic is another
> question I need to answer?
>
> The developers not surprisingly are skeptic of anything that involves xml
> based coding, instead of what they are comfortable with(Model 2).
Well, you will have to bridge these their concerns .. ;-). You are dealing with XML already, as the backend on the mainframe talks XML only.
As already said above, I thin it is easier to write stylesheets that transform XML into (X)HTML than fiddling around with JSPs and dealing
with unmarshall the XML returned from the mainframe programatically. As an aside, replacing Struts with XMLForms et alias still gives you MVC,
though a differrent flavour.
> I need to come up with a good reason not to use Struts.
I do not think whether this should be the real decision: use Struts where appropriate, especially in the areas where it offers strong support,
and maybe somebody else can comment on the features of XMLForms, the ValidatorAction et alias and how they would be appropriate to replace
Struts inb the long term. Please bear in mind that this stuff has not been released officially ... iow, somewhat adventerous to a corporate
cimate where people are used to deal with 3rd party vendor products only .. ;-).
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
> Werner Guttmann
> <Werner.Guttmann@morgans To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org, ldexp-dev <ld...@ms.com>, ldwebdeb@ms.com
> tanley.com> cc:
> Subject: Re: Combining Cocoon with Struts Tag libs
> 06/17/02 10:53 AM
> Please respond to
> cocoon-users
>
>
>
> Adam,
>
> there's a couple of alternatives you seem to have, one of them using
> XMLForms
> et alias to implement functionality of Struts in Cocoon. As this
> functionality
> has only become available in the recent past, we have taken a different
> approach using the XMLizable interface of Cocoon to integrate our business
> domain model with both Struts and Coccon.
>
> In our case, an inbound HTTP request is
>
> 1) picked up by Struts, which a) populates its FormBean(s) , and b)
> forwards
> to a pre-configured Action for additional validation. If successful, we
> then
> forward control to an XSP ... in order to avoid introducing dependencies
> between Struts and Cocoon, we decided to implement our own set of JavaBeans
> to
> keep the set of parameters as selected in the HTML form, which we attached
> to
> the request/session scope as attributes.
>
> b) On Coccon receiving the HTTP request (forward), Coocon kicked in and
> invoked the relevant pipeline. That pipeline uses the ServerPages generator
> to
> invoke an XSP that uses the following code fragment:
>
> <xsp:logic>
> XMLizable xmlizable = new XTransformer();
> </xsp:logic>
>
> <some_entities><xsp:expr>xmlizable</xsp:expr></some_entities>
>
> Cocoon - when processing the <xsp:exp> element - will invoke the
> toSAX(ContentHandler) method on our XTransformer class, and expects this
> method to insert SAX events into the event stream. In our case, for each
> business entity we have a corresponding Transformer instance that uses the
> aforementioned Criteria object, a business delegate and (potentially) a
> value
> list handler implementation to get a collection of business entities from
> our
> business backend, and render them to SAX events. From there on, it's
> business
> as usual with Cocoon executing the remainder of the pipeline.
>
> Now, having followed some of the traffic on this list re: XMLForms, etc., I
> am
> under the impression that most of the stuff could (and maybe should) be
> done
> through the use of XMLForms, ValidatorAction, etc. Unfortunately, I have
> not
> had the time to evaluate the various offering (yet).
>
> I hope this helps.
> Werner
>
> Adam_Waldal@eFunds.com wrote:
>
> > Cocoon-Collective,
> >
> > I am still trying to make architecture decisions. I have a pretty good
> > understanding of both Struts and Cocoon architectures. I have seen a
> > couple of other people inquire about a hybrid solution using the
> strengths
> > in both. Has anyone considered or done this successfully and seemingly
> > painlessly?
> >
> > I guess this really comes down to a comparison of xsp vs. jsp and which
> to
> > use. The other major consideration is performance, the system I need to
> > build will be high traffic and transactional. Does anyone have a similar
> > situation or opinion that will help my decision process?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Adam
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
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Re: Combining Cocoon with Struts Tag libs
Posted by Ivelin Ivanov <iv...@apache.org>.
I think you're getting into a discussion which has already been covered
numerous times on the dev-list.
Look at the recent discussions on Struts to see what others thought.
Before that though, take a quick look at this:
http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/xmlform-wizard/howto-xmlform-wizard.html
> 1) I need to accomplish a validation of a 5 part form that is validated and
> filled incrementally.
XMLForm allows use of Schematron schemas which are designed especially
for this kind of problems.
> 2) Take the contents of this composite form and create one xml from it's
> contents.
XMLForm provides W3C XForms like xml markup.
> 3) Submit to a Transforming servlet that takes this xml and spits back an
> xml response after retrieving info from a Mainframe app.
You'll need to extend the AbstractXMLFormAction and implement the logic
for talking to the mainframe.
> 4a) Display xml response as a page with 6 tabs ( one page w/ layers or six
> pages with links to the others)
Cocoon's best at that.
> 4b) If there are errors in the response for any of the six parts it needs
> to display the form with the corresponding inputs filled in for corrections
> to be made.
XMLForm has the answer for this too.
See the howto and the feedback wizard demo.
> 5) Accept re-submission and re-validate
you've got it.
> 6) Submit reponse to back-end again, loop sequence.
Your custom action will handle this.
The XMLForm demo shows one way to do it.
> This sequence is the bulk of the app. There is security and other stuff,
> but that is the core of it.
>
> The debate is over performance, use of languages, and ease of support.
> With performance coming at the top of that list.
I can safely claim that XMLForm is not slower than Struts.
The libraries it is build on are shared by Jakarta JSTL and are
production quality.
> One other concern I have about splitting the architecture into two servlets
> is session management. Where do I put the timeout logic is another
> question I need to answer?
I like using standards. So I give this to the app server by hooking in a
J2EE Realm implementation.
> The developers not surprisingly are skeptic of anything that involves xml
> based coding, instead of what they are comfortable with(Model 2).
Can't help you here :)
>
> I need to come up with a good reason not to use Struts.
Struts is great for what it does.
If your application is all HTML, stick to Struts.
Ivelin
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> Werner Guttmann
> <Werner.Guttmann@morgans To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org, ldexp-dev <ld...@ms.com>, ldwebdeb@ms.com
> tanley.com> cc:
> Subject: Re: Combining Cocoon with Struts Tag libs
> 06/17/02 10:53 AM
> Please respond to
> cocoon-users
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam,
>
> there's a couple of alternatives you seem to have, one of them using
> XMLForms
> et alias to implement functionality of Struts in Cocoon. As this
> functionality
> has only become available in the recent past, we have taken a different
> approach using the XMLizable interface of Cocoon to integrate our business
> domain model with both Struts and Coccon.
>
> In our case, an inbound HTTP request is
>
> 1) picked up by Struts, which a) populates its FormBean(s) , and b)
> forwards
> to a pre-configured Action for additional validation. If successful, we
> then
> forward control to an XSP ... in order to avoid introducing dependencies
> between Struts and Cocoon, we decided to implement our own set of JavaBeans
> to
> keep the set of parameters as selected in the HTML form, which we attached
> to
> the request/session scope as attributes.
>
> b) On Coccon receiving the HTTP request (forward), Coocon kicked in and
> invoked the relevant pipeline. That pipeline uses the ServerPages generator
> to
> invoke an XSP that uses the following code fragment:
>
> <xsp:logic>
> XMLizable xmlizable = new XTransformer();
> </xsp:logic>
>
> <some_entities><xsp:expr>xmlizable</xsp:expr></some_entities>
>
> Cocoon - when processing the <xsp:exp> element - will invoke the
> toSAX(ContentHandler) method on our XTransformer class, and expects this
> method to insert SAX events into the event stream. In our case, for each
> business entity we have a corresponding Transformer instance that uses the
> aforementioned Criteria object, a business delegate and (potentially) a
> value
> list handler implementation to get a collection of business entities from
> our
> business backend, and render them to SAX events. From there on, it's
> business
> as usual with Cocoon executing the remainder of the pipeline.
>
> Now, having followed some of the traffic on this list re: XMLForms, etc., I
> am
> under the impression that most of the stuff could (and maybe should) be
> done
> through the use of XMLForms, ValidatorAction, etc. Unfortunately, I have
> not
> had the time to evaluate the various offering (yet).
>
> I hope this helps.
> Werner
>
>
>
> Adam_Waldal@eFunds.com wrote:
>
>
>>Cocoon-Collective,
>>
>>I am still trying to make architecture decisions. I have a pretty good
>>understanding of both Struts and Cocoon architectures. I have seen a
>>couple of other people inquire about a hybrid solution using the
>
> strengths
>
>>in both. Has anyone considered or done this successfully and seemingly
>>painlessly?
>>
>>I guess this really comes down to a comparison of xsp vs. jsp and which
>
> to
>
>>use. The other major consideration is performance, the system I need to
>>build will be high traffic and transactional. Does anyone have a similar
>>situation or opinion that will help my decision process?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Adam
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
>>FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>>
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>>For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>
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>
>
--
-= Ivelin =-
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