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Posted to marketing@openoffice.apache.org by Kadal Amutham <vk...@apache.org> on 2013/06/27 05:50:37 UTC
Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers
are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating
same sentences repeatedly.
As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of
volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is
no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a
crime.
I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
V.Kadal Amutham
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch>.
Am 27.06.13 08:17, schrieb Kadal Amutham:
> And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both
> project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid
> developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice and
> LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this doesn't mean, that
> this people are not payed for their work. Same are not, yes, but many are.
>
> Things are getting more complicated now. So the effort of volunteers
> are commercialized. If the above statement is true, then it is better to
> call volunteers as unpaid laborers.
Yes, and you have to live with it. I say everytime, free software is no
carity, it is height commercial, No matter if you take Linux, OpenOffice
or Apache HTTP. But this is not a problem, this is the way it works. You
are simply not able to run big projects on a pure volunteer base.
Companies make Billions $ with OpenSource. but they put also a lot of
menpower into it. Without this manpower big project will never left
experimental status. It's a giving ant taking. Same people think Open
Source is against the big companies. This was maybe the case in the very
first years. But the fact is, Big companies feeding OSS. Remember,
OpenOffice was a comercial product. It was StarOffice and SUN released
it under a OSS Lisence. Without SUN we would not have OpenOffice and all
it's devirate today.
Greetings Raphael
>
> With Warm Regards
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
> 919444360480
> 914422396480
>
>
> On 27 June 2013 11:38, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>
>> Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you
>> want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time.
>> You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of the
>> idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL one.
>>
>> It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their
>> ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just
>> because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows.
>>>
>>> We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication.
>>>
>>> With Warm Regards
>>>
>>> V.Kadal Amutham
>>> 919444360480
>>> 914422396480
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it
>>> serves?
>>>> Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are
>>>> incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have
>>> two
>>>> different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a
>> lot
>>>> in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape.
>>>>
>>>> FLOSS is the hability to fork.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> With Warm Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> V.Kadal Amutham
>>>>> 919444360480
>>>>> 914422396480
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre
>>> are
>>>>>> mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many)
>>>> Linux
>>>>>> distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet
>>>> that
>>>>>> end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and
>>>>>> localization tasks for each distro.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> welcome to free software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vkadal@apache.org
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly
>> by
>>>>>>> volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of
>>>>> volunteers
>>>>>>> are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are
>>>> translating
>>>>>>> same sentences repeatedly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort
>> of
>>>>>>> volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that
>>>> there
>>>>> is
>>>>>>> no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and
>> time
>>>> is
>>>>> a
>>>>>>> crime.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and
>> AOO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> V.Kadal Amutham
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>>> http://www.openoffice.org
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>> http://www.openoffice.org
>>
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Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:17 AM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both
>> project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid
>> developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice and
>> LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this doesn't mean, that
>> this people are not payed for their work. Same are not, yes, but many are.
>>
>> Things are getting more complicated now. So the effort of volunteers
>> are commercialized. If the above statement is true, then it is better to
>> call volunteers as unpaid laborers.
>>
>
>
> Not really, you can commercialize OpenOffice, anyway you want. Most of
> FLOSS model are build on the provision of services, from migrations to
> costumization for specific needs of costumers. However is true that this
> right can be taken by indiviudals the same way as large corporations with
> many costumers around the world and brand recognition, and hordes of sales
> people ready to charge you for FLOSS products.
>
> The comercialization on the community goes in the way that many core
> developers have corporate agendas that can skew the way the community
> approach the development route. You can always re-fork these efforts but
> really is a question that is common on every society. A group of people
> focused on the same thing, can lead better than a larger group with no
> focus roaming around with no common target.
>
It is also important to mention, that this is a meritocracy, so we heavily
rely on what people do, more than what people say. Although in my
experience, people are still more sensitive to what is being agreed upon on
top of an existing contribution.
>
>
>
>>
>> With Warm Regards
>>
>> V.Kadal Amutham
>> 919444360480
>> 914422396480
>>
>>
>> On 27 June 2013 11:38, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you
>> > want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time.
>> > You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of
>> the
>> > idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL
>> one.
>> >
>> > It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their
>> > ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just
>> > because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows.
>> > >
>> > > We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication.
>> > >
>> > > With Warm Regards
>> > >
>> > > V.Kadal Amutham
>> > > 919444360480
>> > > 914422396480
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it
>> > > serves?
>> > > > >
>> > > > Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are
>> > > > incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to
>> have
>> > > two
>> > > > different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens
>> a
>> > lot
>> > > > in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape.
>> > > >
>> > > > FLOSS is the hability to fork.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > With Warm Regards
>> > > > >
>> > > > > V.Kadal Amutham
>> > > > > 919444360480
>> > > > > 914422396480
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro.
>> Thre
>> > > are
>> > > > > > mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually
>> many)
>> > > > Linux
>> > > > > > distributions which are different FTP servers all over the
>> internet
>> > > > that
>> > > > > > end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing
>> and
>> > > > > > localization tasks for each distro.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > welcome to free software.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <
>> vkadal@apache.org
>> > >
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully /
>> mostly
>> > by
>> > > > > > > volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of
>> > > > > volunteers
>> > > > > > > are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are
>> > > > translating
>> > > > > > > same sentences repeatedly.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and
>> effort
>> > of
>> > > > > > > volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful
>> that
>> > > > there
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > > > no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and
>> > time
>> > > > is
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > > > crime.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and
>> > AOO
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > V.Kadal Amutham
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > Alexandro Colorado
>> > > > > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>> > > > > > http://www.openoffice.org
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Alexandro Colorado
>> > > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>> > > > http://www.openoffice.org
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Alexandro Colorado
>> > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>> > http://www.openoffice.org
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://www.openoffice.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:17 AM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both
> project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid
> developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice and
> LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this doesn't mean, that
> this people are not payed for their work. Same are not, yes, but many are.
>
> Things are getting more complicated now. So the effort of volunteers
> are commercialized. If the above statement is true, then it is better to
> call volunteers as unpaid laborers.
>
Not really, you can commercialize OpenOffice, anyway you want. Most of
FLOSS model are build on the provision of services, from migrations to
costumization for specific needs of costumers. However is true that this
right can be taken by indiviudals the same way as large corporations with
many costumers around the world and brand recognition, and hordes of sales
people ready to charge you for FLOSS products.
The comercialization on the community goes in the way that many core
developers have corporate agendas that can skew the way the community
approach the development route. You can always re-fork these efforts but
really is a question that is common on every society. A group of people
focused on the same thing, can lead better than a larger group with no
focus roaming around with no common target.
>
> With Warm Regards
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
> 919444360480
> 914422396480
>
>
> On 27 June 2013 11:38, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>
> > Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you
> > want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time.
> > You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of
> the
> > idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL one.
> >
> > It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their
> > ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just
> > because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows.
> > >
> > > We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication.
> > >
> > > With Warm Regards
> > >
> > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > > 919444360480
> > > 914422396480
> > >
> > >
> > > On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it
> > > serves?
> > > > >
> > > > Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are
> > > > incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to
> have
> > > two
> > > > different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a
> > lot
> > > > in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape.
> > > >
> > > > FLOSS is the hability to fork.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > With Warm Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > > > > 919444360480
> > > > > 914422396480
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro.
> Thre
> > > are
> > > > > > mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually
> many)
> > > > Linux
> > > > > > distributions which are different FTP servers all over the
> internet
> > > > that
> > > > > > end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing
> and
> > > > > > localization tasks for each distro.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > welcome to free software.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <
> vkadal@apache.org
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly
> > by
> > > > > > > volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of
> > > > > volunteers
> > > > > > > are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are
> > > > translating
> > > > > > > same sentences repeatedly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and
> effort
> > of
> > > > > > > volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful
> that
> > > > there
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and
> > time
> > > > is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > crime.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and
> > AOO
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Alexandro Colorado
> > > > > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > > > > > http://www.openoffice.org
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Alexandro Colorado
> > > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > > > http://www.openoffice.org
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandro Colorado
> > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > http://www.openoffice.org
> >
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>.
And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both
project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid
developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice and
LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this doesn't mean, that
this people are not payed for their work. Same are not, yes, but many are.
Things are getting more complicated now. So the effort of volunteers
are commercialized. If the above statement is true, then it is better to
call volunteers as unpaid laborers.
With Warm Regards
V.Kadal Amutham
919444360480
914422396480
On 27 June 2013 11:38, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you
> want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time.
> You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of the
> idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL one.
>
> It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their
> ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just
> because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows.
> >
> > We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication.
> >
> > With Warm Regards
> >
> > V.Kadal Amutham
> > 919444360480
> > 914422396480
> >
> >
> > On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it
> > serves?
> > > >
> > > Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are
> > > incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have
> > two
> > > different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a
> lot
> > > in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape.
> > >
> > > FLOSS is the hability to fork.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > With Warm Regards
> > > >
> > > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > > > 919444360480
> > > > 914422396480
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre
> > are
> > > > > mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many)
> > > Linux
> > > > > distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet
> > > that
> > > > > end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and
> > > > > localization tasks for each distro.
> > > > >
> > > > > welcome to free software.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vkadal@apache.org
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly
> by
> > > > > > volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of
> > > > volunteers
> > > > > > are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are
> > > translating
> > > > > > same sentences repeatedly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort
> of
> > > > > > volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that
> > > there
> > > > is
> > > > > > no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and
> time
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > > crime.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and
> AOO
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Alexandro Colorado
> > > > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > > > > http://www.openoffice.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alexandro Colorado
> > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > > http://www.openoffice.org
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://www.openoffice.org
>
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you
want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time.
You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of the
idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL one.
It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their
ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just
because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows.
>
> We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication.
>
> With Warm Regards
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
> 919444360480
> 914422396480
>
>
> On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it
> serves?
> > >
> > Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are
> > incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have
> two
> > different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a lot
> > in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape.
> >
> > FLOSS is the hability to fork.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > With Warm Regards
> > >
> > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > > 919444360480
> > > 914422396480
> > >
> > >
> > > On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre
> are
> > > > mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many)
> > Linux
> > > > distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet
> > that
> > > > end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and
> > > > localization tasks for each distro.
> > > >
> > > > welcome to free software.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
> > > > > volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of
> > > volunteers
> > > > > are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are
> > translating
> > > > > same sentences repeatedly.
> > > > >
> > > > > As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of
> > > > > volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that
> > there
> > > is
> > > > > no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time
> > is
> > > a
> > > > > crime.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Alexandro Colorado
> > > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > > > http://www.openoffice.org
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandro Colorado
> > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > http://www.openoffice.org
> >
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>.
I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows.
We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication.
With Warm Regards
V.Kadal Amutham
919444360480
914422396480
On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves?
> >
> Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are
> incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have two
> different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a lot
> in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape.
>
> FLOSS is the hability to fork.
>
>
> >
> > With Warm Regards
> >
> > V.Kadal Amutham
> > 919444360480
> > 914422396480
> >
> >
> > On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> >
> > > you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre are
> > > mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many)
> Linux
> > > distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet
> that
> > > end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and
> > > localization tasks for each distro.
> > >
> > > welcome to free software.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
> > > > volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of
> > volunteers
> > > > are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are
> translating
> > > > same sentences repeatedly.
> > > >
> > > > As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of
> > > > volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that
> there
> > is
> > > > no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time
> is
> > a
> > > > crime.
> > > >
> > > > I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alexandro Colorado
> > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > > http://www.openoffice.org
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://www.openoffice.org
>
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves?
>
Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are
incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have two
different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a lot
in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape.
FLOSS is the hability to fork.
>
> With Warm Regards
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
> 919444360480
> 914422396480
>
>
> On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>
> > you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre are
> > mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many) Linux
> > distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet that
> > end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and
> > localization tasks for each distro.
> >
> > welcome to free software.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
> > > volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of
> volunteers
> > > are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating
> > > same sentences repeatedly.
> > >
> > > As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of
> > > volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there
> is
> > > no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is
> a
> > > crime.
> > >
> > > I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
> > >
> > >
> > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandro Colorado
> > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > http://www.openoffice.org
> >
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch>.
Am 27.06.13 06:28, schrieb Kadal Amutham:
> My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves?
You see this not only in Free software. How meny foundations for cancer
exists worldwide? or how many organizations cares about people with
disability. I can tell you stories of paralell efforts in Sport
handicap. We in Switzerland has alown 4 head organizations for sport
handicap, and this in a small country like Switzerland.
There are different reasons for this behavure. One of the moast
important is the unwillingness to make compromises personal interests
and egoisme. An aditional problem of free software is the ability to
fork wich is at the same time a big avantage. You have not to start from
the scratch. If you are unhappy with the project, you can simply take
the source, and doing your own docfood. The problem is, you can split a
project very fast, but bring it togeter again is much harder. OpenOffice
and LibreOffice are similar, but not the same. mainly in the way we did
the work, we have big differences. We have a different developing
strategy. LibO for exemple allows desicions outside Mailing lists. At
Apache this is forbidden. The release process of LibO is much easyer as
the one of Apache OpenOffice, but esyer means also less restrictiv.
And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both
project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid
developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice
and LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this dosn't mean,
that this people are not payed for there work. Same are not, yes, but
many are.
Greetings Raphael
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Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>.
My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves?
With Warm Regards
V.Kadal Amutham
919444360480
914422396480
On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre are
> mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many) Linux
> distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet that
> end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and
> localization tasks for each distro.
>
> welcome to free software.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
> > volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers
> > are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating
> > same sentences repeatedly.
> >
> > As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of
> > volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is
> > no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a
> > crime.
> >
> > I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
> >
> >
> > V.Kadal Amutham
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://www.openoffice.org
>
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre are
mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many) Linux
distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet that
end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and
localization tasks for each distro.
welcome to free software.
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@apache.org> wrote:
> Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
> volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers
> are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating
> same sentences repeatedly.
>
> As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of
> volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is
> no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a
> crime.
>
> I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
>
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>.
LO is not using Pootle. At the least, I was given a simple text file to
translate. When I went to Pootle site, it is announces that LO is using
Pootle but no mention about AOO.
As you suggested , glossary will be useful in both cases.
But in AOO, many a times one has to translate repeatedly same sentence /
phrase. And in Pootle, one can not copy paste the translation, since at any
point of not more than 9 sentences are displayed. This issue needs attention
With Warm Regards
V.Kadal Amutham
919444360480
914422396480
On 27 June 2013 16:40, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
>
>> On 6/27/13 8:42 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>
>>> All contributions made to OpenOffice (or to Apache projects in general)
>>> can be freely reused (and some are actively being reused) in other
>>> projects, due to license compatibility in this direction. Technically, a
>>> contribution under the Apache License can be taken and included with no
>>> problems in a project under the MPL license.
>>>
>> well it was never 100% clarified from my pov or Iam to lazy to
>> understand it. But my understanding is that LO or the major parts of
>> their source code is under ALv2 and they can't withdraw the ALv2 license
>> even if it looks so.
>>
>
> This is a technicality. An important one, but still a technicality.
>
> What matters here, and what nobody can reasonably challenge, is that
> contributions (code, translations) made to OpenOffice can be reused and
> included in other projects, and specifically in LibreOffice.
>
> Relicensing is on another level of discussion and it only concerns the
> project that is reusing the contributions, so it is confusing to mix the
> two issues.
>
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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>
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
> On 6/27/13 8:42 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> All contributions made to OpenOffice (or to Apache projects in general)
>> can be freely reused (and some are actively being reused) in other
>> projects, due to license compatibility in this direction. Technically, a
>> contribution under the Apache License can be taken and included with no
>> problems in a project under the MPL license.
> well it was never 100% clarified from my pov or Iam to lazy to
> understand it. But my understanding is that LO or the major parts of
> their source code is under ALv2 and they can't withdraw the ALv2 license
> even if it looks so.
This is a technicality. An important one, but still a technicality.
What matters here, and what nobody can reasonably challenge, is that
contributions (code, translations) made to OpenOffice can be reused and
included in other projects, and specifically in LibreOffice.
Relicensing is on another level of discussion and it only concerns the
project that is reusing the contributions, so it is confusing to mix the
two issues.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 6/27/13 8:42 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Kadal Amutham wrote:
>> Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work.
>
> Teams are not necessarily separated.
>
>> I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
>
> All contributions made to OpenOffice (or to Apache projects in general)
> can be freely reused (and some are actively being reused) in other
> projects, due to license compatibility in this direction. Technically, a
> contribution under the Apache License can be taken and included with no
> problems in a project under the MPL license.
well it was never 100% clarified from my pov or Iam to lazy to
understand it. But my understanding is that LO or the major parts of
their source code is under ALv2 and they can't withdraw the ALv2 license
even if it looks so.
They can only put their changes and extensions to the code under a
different license.
LO don't talk about it and from my pov it looks not correct how they
does it. But I am no lawyer and it seems that nobody is really
interested to clarify this finally.
And of course for newbies in their code it looks that everything is from
them.
Juergen
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Kadal Amutham wrote:
> Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work.
Teams are not necessarily separated.
> I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
All contributions made to OpenOffice (or to Apache projects in general)
can be freely reused (and some are actively being reused) in other
projects, due to license compatibility in this direction. Technically, a
contribution under the Apache License can be taken and included with no
problems in a project under the MPL license.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Pedro Albuquerque <pa...@gmail.com>.
Em 27/06/2013 12:09, Rob Weir escreveu:
> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
>> volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers
>> are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating
>> same sentences repeatedly.
>>
>> As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of
>> volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is
>> no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a
>> crime.
>>
>> I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
>>
> Any suggestions for how to reduce or eliminate wastage?
If the final result maintains or improves the global and correct use of
a determined language, no matter what it is, I wouldn't consider it as
wastage.
The only possible issue would be someone altering something that is
already correctly translated in that language. But, limiting that, would
imply, I think, copyrights.
At the same time there is always need for adjustments, the software
evolves, volunteers disappear, etc.
Basically, what I mean is that since it's open source it should be for
who cares and wants to improve the language itself. There shouldn't be
the need for conflicts.
Speaking on my behalf, I am, as long as possible, available to preserve
my language - Portuguese PT. Without mixing it with other Portuguese
speaking countries, that deserve exactly the same rights. Just like all
the English speaking countries all around the world! And, most probably
lots of other cases that I am not aware of!
If I can help in glossaries, dictionaries, whatever, please just say so!
Thanks,
Pedro.
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Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@apache.org> wrote:
> Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
> volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers
> are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating
> same sentences repeatedly.
>
> As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of
> volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is
> no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a
> crime.
>
> I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
>
Any suggestions for how to reduce or eliminate wastage?
Since AOO and LO differ at the UI level, the translations will not be
identical. But the basic terminology is almost identical. And we're
using the same tools (Pootle). So maybe an opportunity to develop
shared glossaries of common terms and phrases?
And remember, any contribution to AOO is immediately usable by LO. In
fact, LO office integrates many (most?) of our code changes. And if a
LO volunteer wants their work to be usable by AOO as well, then they
just need to say so. At the individual level it is entirely under
their control if they want to license their contributions under Apache
License as well as LGPL/MPL. If they do that then both projects can
use the code. I wonder if they are not aware that they may do this?
Regards,
-Rob
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
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Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Kadal Amutham wrote:
> Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work.
Teams are not necessarily separated.
> I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
All contributions made to OpenOffice (or to Apache projects in general)
can be freely reused (and some are actively being reused) in other
projects, due to license compatibility in this direction. Technically, a
contribution under the Apache License can be taken and included with no
problems in a project under the MPL license.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Kadal Amutham <vk...@apache.org> wrote:
> Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
> volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers
> are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating
> same sentences repeatedly.
>
> As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of
> volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is
> no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a
> crime.
>
> I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO
>
Any suggestions for how to reduce or eliminate wastage?
Since AOO and LO differ at the UI level, the translations will not be
identical. But the basic terminology is almost identical. And we're
using the same tools (Pootle). So maybe an opportunity to develop
shared glossaries of common terms and phrases?
And remember, any contribution to AOO is immediately usable by LO. In
fact, LO office integrates many (most?) of our code changes. And if a
LO volunteer wants their work to be usable by AOO as well, then they
just need to say so. At the individual level it is entirely under
their control if they want to license their contributions under Apache
License as well as LGPL/MPL. If they do that then both projects can
use the code. I wonder if they are not aware that they may do this?
Regards,
-Rob
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
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Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Posted by Dirgita <di...@yahoo.co.id>.
Pada 27/06/13 10:50, Kadal Amutham menulis:
> Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by
> volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers
> are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating
> same sentences repeatedly.
>
For that reason, I have joined both of them^^
-----
Salam,
Dirgita
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