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Posted to dev@pdfbox.apache.org by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> on 2009/09/11 16:34:47 UTC
Using Maven in PDFBox
Hi,
I know we've touched this subject every know and then, but I'd like to
bring it up again: How would people feel about switching from Ant to
Maven as the main PDFBox build tool?
Such a change would be quite beneficial to anyone who is already
familiar with the Maven conventions. Things like IDE and CI
integration would require next to no manual tweaking, and we could
easily leverage many of the best practices (source and javadoc jars,
built-in PGP signing, UTF-8 source encoding, standard LICENSE and
NOTICE file handling, etc.) encoded in the org.apache:apache parent
POMs. We also wouldn't need to worry about keeping the pom.xml file up
to date with changes in build.xml.
WDYT?
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please try the new build out and report any problems you encounter. If
> everything works fine, I'll proceed to JempBox and finally to PDFBox.
Given no major reported issues, I've now switched also the JempBox
build to Maven. To try it out, use:
svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/pdfbox/jempbox/trunk
jempbox-trunk
cd jempbox-trunk
mvn clean install
The same IKVM build option should work as with the FontBox build:
mvn clean install -Dikvm=/path/to/ikvm
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Niall Pemberton
<ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I contributed patches for the FontBox and JempBox to the following JIRA tickets:
Thanks!
I started with the FontBox build, that is now (as of revision 818793)
entirely Maven-based. To try out the build, use:
svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/pdfbox/fontbox/trunk
fontbox-trunk
cd fontbox-trunk
mvn clean install
This will produce a target directory with the fontbox-1.0-SNAPSHOT.jar in it.
If you have IKVM.NET installed, you can run the build as follows to
also produce a fontbox-1.0-SNAPSHOT.dll:
mvn clean install -Dikvm=/path/to/ikvm
All IDE and other Maven tool integrations should work out of the box.
Please try the new build out and report any problems you encounter. If
everything works fine, I'll proceed to JempBox and finally to PDFBox.
PS. I set the build version to "1.0-SNAPSHOT" on the premise that we
may want to go for a 1.0 release once we're graduated from the
Incubator. Alternatively we could use "0.8.1-SNAPSHOT" to stick with a
more rigid major.minor.patch version numbering.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I know we've touched this subject every know and then, but I'd like to
>> bring it up again: How would people feel about switching from Ant to
>> Maven as the main PDFBox build tool?
>
> I didn't hear any big objections, so I'll move forward with this. I'll
> begin with the JempBox and FontBox codebases and move my way up to the
> main PDFBox trunk.
I contributed patches for the FontBox and JempBox to the following JIRA tickets:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PDFBOX-499
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PDFBOX-500
Niall
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know we've touched this subject every know and then, but I'd like to
> bring it up again: How would people feel about switching from Ant to
> Maven as the main PDFBox build tool?
I didn't hear any big objections, so I'll move forward with this. I'll
begin with the JempBox and FontBox codebases and move my way up to the
main PDFBox trunk.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@jeremias-maerki.ch>.
Given that PDFBox now already downloads dependencies from the net, one
of my biggest points against Maven/Ivy is already moot. Switching to
Maven now is not a big deal anymore. I still don't like builds that rely
on possibly multiple external servers (besides the ASF's SVN server) to
be online at the time of first build. There's not a worse impression of
an open source tool downloaded the first time and it doesn't build.
On 11.09.2009 16:34:47 Jukka Zitting wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I know we've touched this subject every know and then, but I'd like to
> bring it up again: How would people feel about switching from Ant to
> Maven as the main PDFBox build tool?
>
> Such a change would be quite beneficial to anyone who is already
> familiar with the Maven conventions. Things like IDE and CI
> integration would require next to no manual tweaking, and we could
> easily leverage many of the best practices (source and javadoc jars,
> built-in PGP signing, UTF-8 source encoding, standard LICENSE and
> NOTICE file handling, etc.) encoded in the org.apache:apache parent
> POMs. We also wouldn't need to worry about keeping the pom.xml file up
> to date with changes in build.xml.
>
> WDYT?
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
Jeremias Maerki
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
OK. I amend my support.
+1 for correctly done maven support. -1 for doing it wrong.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Martinez, Mel <m....@ll.mit.edu>wrote:
> Using Maven doesn't necessarily == improved integration with Eclipse.
--
Ted Dunning, CTO
DeepDyve
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
This is a great example of a maven advantage.
Maven defines (universally) a set of life cycle goals. The most commonly
used are test, compile, package, and deploy (to a repository). All
dependency resolution is done automagically with nice caching, signature
checking and so on.
The advantage here is that without knowing anything about the details of how
maven will be set up for pdfbox, I already know how to compile, test and
deploy pdfbox. I also know a lot about the internal structure of any
artifacts produced, how their are named and whether a real release manager
did the release correctly.
With ant, there are no enforced conventions and I know nearly nothing ab
initio. I will have to read the build.xml and then guess how to do simple
things with the build.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:14 PM, <Ad...@swmc.com> wrote:
> Ant works fine, but if Maven makes something easier for others I'm all for
> it as long a getting all dependencies is still a matter of running a
> single command (e.g. `ant get.externallibs`).
>
--
Ted Dunning, CTO
DeepDyve
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Philipp Koch <ph...@day.com>.
+1 for maven.
regards,
philipp
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:14 PM, <Ad...@swmc.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the links.
>
> +1 for Maven.
>
> Ant works fine, but if Maven makes something easier for others I'm all for
> it as long a getting all dependencies is still a matter of running a
> single command (e.g. `ant get.externallibs`).
>
> --Adam
>
>
>
>
> "Martinez, Mel" <m....@ll.mit.edu>
> 09/11/2009 10:29
> Please respond to
> pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
>
> To
> "pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org" <pd...@incubator.apache.org>
> cc
>
> Subject
> RE: Using Maven in PDFBox
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maven is in its base form a command-line build tool, like Ant.
>
> Go to http://maven.apache.org/ to find out more.
>
> For NetBeans integration, see:
> http://wiki.netbeans.org/MavenBestPractices
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam@swmc.com [mailto:Adam@swmc.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
>
> Sounds great for eclipse users. How does maven work for people who use
> Netbeans or some other IDE? Is there a readily available standalone
> windows binary?
>
> --Adam
>
>
>
>
> Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
> 09/11/2009 08:42
> Please respond to
> pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
>
> To
> pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Martinez, Mel <m....@ll.mit.edu>
> wrote:
>> Using Maven doesn't necessarily == improved integration with Eclipse.
>
> Correct, you can certainly also mess things up with Maven.
>
> What I'm thinking about is a setup like in many of the other projects
> I'm actively working on (Jackrabbit, Tika, Commons, etc.) where I can
> simply point Eclipse (with the m2 plugin) to the relevant project
> directory and have the project and any potential subprojects correctly
> imported (with all the dependencies resolved, dependency source code
> correctly linked, unit test integration readily available, etc.) with
> a single click.
>
> If we have consensus that the switch to Maven is a good idea, I
> volunteer to set things up.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
>
> ? Click here to submit conditions
>
> This email and any content within or attached hereto from Sun West
> Mortgage Company, Inc. is confidential and/or legally privileged. The
> information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named
> on this email. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any
> action in reliance on the contents of this email information is strictly
> prohibited, and that the documents should be returned to this office
> immediately by email. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient
> is not a waiver of any privilege. Please do not include your social
> security number, account number, or any other personal or financial
> information in the content of the email. Should you have any questions,
> please call (800) 453 7884.
>
>
> ? Click here to submit conditions
>
> This email and any content within or attached hereto from Sun West Mortgage Company, Inc. is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named on this email. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email information is strictly prohibited, and that the documents should be returned to this office immediately by email. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient is not a waiver of any privilege. Please do not include your social security number, account number, or any other personal or financial information in the content of the email. Should you have any questions, please call (800) 453 7884.
RE: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Ad...@swmc.com.
Thanks for the links.
+1 for Maven.
Ant works fine, but if Maven makes something easier for others I'm all for
it as long a getting all dependencies is still a matter of running a
single command (e.g. `ant get.externallibs`).
--Adam
"Martinez, Mel" <m....@ll.mit.edu>
09/11/2009 10:29
Please respond to
pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
To
"pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org" <pd...@incubator.apache.org>
cc
Subject
RE: Using Maven in PDFBox
Maven is in its base form a command-line build tool, like Ant.
Go to http://maven.apache.org/ to find out more.
For NetBeans integration, see:
http://wiki.netbeans.org/MavenBestPractices
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam@swmc.com [mailto:Adam@swmc.com]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:20 PM
To: pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Sounds great for eclipse users. How does maven work for people who use
Netbeans or some other IDE? Is there a readily available standalone
windows binary?
--Adam
Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
09/11/2009 08:42
Please respond to
pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
To
pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
cc
Subject
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Hi,
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Martinez, Mel <m....@ll.mit.edu>
wrote:
> Using Maven doesn't necessarily == improved integration with Eclipse.
Correct, you can certainly also mess things up with Maven.
What I'm thinking about is a setup like in many of the other projects
I'm actively working on (Jackrabbit, Tika, Commons, etc.) where I can
simply point Eclipse (with the m2 plugin) to the relevant project
directory and have the project and any potential subprojects correctly
imported (with all the dependencies resolved, dependency source code
correctly linked, unit test integration readily available, etc.) with
a single click.
If we have consensus that the switch to Maven is a good idea, I
volunteer to set things up.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
? Click here to submit conditions
This email and any content within or attached hereto from Sun West
Mortgage Company, Inc. is confidential and/or legally privileged. The
information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named
on this email. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any
action in reliance on the contents of this email information is strictly
prohibited, and that the documents should be returned to this office
immediately by email. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient
is not a waiver of any privilege. Please do not include your social
security number, account number, or any other personal or financial
information in the content of the email. Should you have any questions,
please call (800) 453 7884.
? Click here to submit conditions
This email and any content within or attached hereto from Sun West Mortgage Company, Inc. is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named on this email. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email information is strictly prohibited, and that the documents should be returned to this office immediately by email. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient is not a waiver of any privilege. Please do not include your social security number, account number, or any other personal or financial information in the content of the email. Should you have any questions, please call (800) 453 7884.
RE: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by "Martinez, Mel" <m....@ll.mit.edu>.
Maven is in its base form a command-line build tool, like Ant.
Go to http://maven.apache.org/ to find out more.
For NetBeans integration, see: http://wiki.netbeans.org/MavenBestPractices
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam@swmc.com [mailto:Adam@swmc.com]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:20 PM
To: pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Sounds great for eclipse users. How does maven work for people who use
Netbeans or some other IDE? Is there a readily available standalone
windows binary?
--Adam
Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
09/11/2009 08:42
Please respond to
pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
To
pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
cc
Subject
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Hi,
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Martinez, Mel <m....@ll.mit.edu>
wrote:
> Using Maven doesn't necessarily == improved integration with Eclipse.
Correct, you can certainly also mess things up with Maven.
What I'm thinking about is a setup like in many of the other projects
I'm actively working on (Jackrabbit, Tika, Commons, etc.) where I can
simply point Eclipse (with the m2 plugin) to the relevant project
directory and have the project and any potential subprojects correctly
imported (with all the dependencies resolved, dependency source code
correctly linked, unit test integration readily available, etc.) with
a single click.
If we have consensus that the switch to Maven is a good idea, I
volunteer to set things up.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
? Click here to submit conditions
This email and any content within or attached hereto from Sun West Mortgage Company, Inc. is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named on this email. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email information is strictly prohibited, and that the documents should be returned to this office immediately by email. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient is not a waiver of any privilege. Please do not include your social security number, account number, or any other personal or financial information in the content of the email. Should you have any questions, please call (800) 453 7884.
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
I use IntelliJ IDEA and love maven. The primary reason is that since IDEA
is the minority IDE, this gives me a usable project structure
representation. IDEA can directly important the maven pom and everything
just works. Eclipse users maintain the pom rather than eclipse specific
files.
I expect that the benefits to Netbeans users would be similar.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:20 AM, <Ad...@swmc.com> wrote:
> How does maven work for people who use
> Netbeans or some other IDE? Is there a readily available standalone
> windows binary?
>
--
Ted Dunning, CTO
DeepDyve
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Ad...@swmc.com.
Sounds great for eclipse users. How does maven work for people who use
Netbeans or some other IDE? Is there a readily available standalone
windows binary?
--Adam
Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
09/11/2009 08:42
Please respond to
pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
To
pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
cc
Subject
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Hi,
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Martinez, Mel <m....@ll.mit.edu>
wrote:
> Using Maven doesn't necessarily == improved integration with Eclipse.
Correct, you can certainly also mess things up with Maven.
What I'm thinking about is a setup like in many of the other projects
I'm actively working on (Jackrabbit, Tika, Commons, etc.) where I can
simply point Eclipse (with the m2 plugin) to the relevant project
directory and have the project and any potential subprojects correctly
imported (with all the dependencies resolved, dependency source code
correctly linked, unit test integration readily available, etc.) with
a single click.
If we have consensus that the switch to Maven is a good idea, I
volunteer to set things up.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
? Click here to submit conditions
This email and any content within or attached hereto from Sun West Mortgage Company, Inc. is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named on this email. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email information is strictly prohibited, and that the documents should be returned to this office immediately by email. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient is not a waiver of any privilege. Please do not include your social security number, account number, or any other personal or financial information in the content of the email. Should you have any questions, please call (800) 453 7884.
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Martinez, Mel <m....@ll.mit.edu> wrote:
> Using Maven doesn't necessarily == improved integration with Eclipse.
Correct, you can certainly also mess things up with Maven.
What I'm thinking about is a setup like in many of the other projects
I'm actively working on (Jackrabbit, Tika, Commons, etc.) where I can
simply point Eclipse (with the m2 plugin) to the relevant project
directory and have the project and any potential subprojects correctly
imported (with all the dependencies resolved, dependency source code
correctly linked, unit test integration readily available, etc.) with
a single click.
If we have consensus that the switch to Maven is a good idea, I
volunteer to set things up.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
RE: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by "Martinez, Mel" <m....@ll.mit.edu>.
Using Maven doesn't necessarily == improved integration with Eclipse. You can build & code PDFBox in eclipse just fine right now. I've worked with Maven projects in and out of eclipse a lot lately and some are a real pain because they make assumptions about paths in the .pom that are at odds with the way the Maven plugin in eclipse works - one could argue the fault is the latter so I'm not pointing fingers.
If you switch to Maven, folks just need to make sure the pom takes into account the workspace/project structure of Eclipse so that it works both in and out of eclipse. Generally, using the Eclipse Maven Plugin to create the project creates a project that works fine both ways.
Other than that concern, I'm for the idea.
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Wilson [mailto:williamstonconsulting@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:57 AM
To: pdfbox-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Having no familiarity with Maven, I hesitate ... but I'll work with whatever
those more experienced w/ Java prefer.
IDE integration would be easier ... like using Eclipse would actually become
practical? I think I could handle that!
Daniel
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking as a consumer rather than direct contributor, I would LOVE this
> switch.
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Jukka Zitting <jukka.zitting@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > I know we've touched this subject every know and then, but I'd like to
> > bring it up again: How would people feel about switching from Ant to
> > Maven as the main PDFBox build tool?
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ted Dunning, CTO
> DeepDyve
>
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Daniel Wilson <wi...@gmail.com>.
Having no familiarity with Maven, I hesitate ... but I'll work with whatever
those more experienced w/ Java prefer.
IDE integration would be easier ... like using Eclipse would actually become
practical? I think I could handle that!
Daniel
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking as a consumer rather than direct contributor, I would LOVE this
> switch.
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Jukka Zitting <jukka.zitting@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > I know we've touched this subject every know and then, but I'd like to
> > bring it up again: How would people feel about switching from Ant to
> > Maven as the main PDFBox build tool?
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ted Dunning, CTO
> DeepDyve
>
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Speaking as a consumer rather than direct contributor, I would LOVE this
switch.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I know we've touched this subject every know and then, but I'd like to
> bring it up again: How would people feel about switching from Ant to
> Maven as the main PDFBox build tool?
>
--
Ted Dunning, CTO
DeepDyve
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Yonas Jongkind <yo...@gmail.com>.
I also am in favour of Maven integration. That would also correct the issue
where the pom.xml file was not published along with the jar file to the
maven repository for jempbox.
Y.
Life is good!
2009/9/11 Andreas Lehmkühler <an...@lehmi.de>
> Hi,
>
> I know maven a little and ant a little bit more, but I guess I don't
> know both good enough to decide which one is the better choice. If there
> are any advantages using maven, let's do it.
>
> @Jukka
> As you like to volunteer for a possible migration, have a look at
> PDFBOX-499 and PDFBOX-500. They already contain patches from Niall for a
> maven integration of fontbox and jempbox.
>
> Jukka Zitting schrieb:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I know we've touched this subject every know and then, but I'd like to
> > bring it up again: How would people feel about switching from Ant to
> > Maven as the main PDFBox build tool?
> >
> > Such a change would be quite beneficial to anyone who is already
> > familiar with the Maven conventions. Things like IDE and CI
> > integration would require next to no manual tweaking, and we could
> > easily leverage many of the best practices (source and javadoc jars,
> > built-in PGP signing, UTF-8 source encoding, standard LICENSE and
> > NOTICE file handling, etc.) encoded in the org.apache:apache parent
> > POMs. We also wouldn't need to worry about keeping the pom.xml file up
> > to date with changes in build.xml.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > BR,
> >
> > Jukka Zitting
>
> BR
> Andreas Lehmkühler
>
>
Re: Using Maven in PDFBox
Posted by Andreas Lehmkühler <an...@lehmi.de>.
Hi,
I know maven a little and ant a little bit more, but I guess I don't
know both good enough to decide which one is the better choice. If there
are any advantages using maven, let's do it.
@Jukka
As you like to volunteer for a possible migration, have a look at
PDFBOX-499 and PDFBOX-500. They already contain patches from Niall for a
maven integration of fontbox and jempbox.
Jukka Zitting schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> I know we've touched this subject every know and then, but I'd like to
> bring it up again: How would people feel about switching from Ant to
> Maven as the main PDFBox build tool?
>
> Such a change would be quite beneficial to anyone who is already
> familiar with the Maven conventions. Things like IDE and CI
> integration would require next to no manual tweaking, and we could
> easily leverage many of the best practices (source and javadoc jars,
> built-in PGP signing, UTF-8 source encoding, standard LICENSE and
> NOTICE file handling, etc.) encoded in the org.apache:apache parent
> POMs. We also wouldn't need to worry about keeping the pom.xml file up
> to date with changes in build.xml.
>
> WDYT?
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
BR
Andreas Lehmkühler