Hi and sorry for the mess ...

[Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>]

Hi all,

I would like to take the opportunity of a quiet Friday and say hello and apologize for any mess my appearance here might have caused.

For all of those to whom I might be a new face, I was strongly involved in the past in the Flex project when Royale was still called FlexJS.
Let’s say our ways parted for quite some time. Possibly not on the best terms.

In the past I have been working sort of on the opposite side of IT than UI: In the Apache PLC4X project. Here I’m mainly talking to industrial hardware.
The thing is: I loved Flex, I loved what FlexJS/Royale was then promising to be so I kept following the project from a birds-eye-view. But admittedly I didn’t build anything with it.

As PLC4X was maturing more and more I more and more had requests asking me to actually build application using PLC4X to show industrial machineries state and to interact with it. Therefore I had to go back into UI-stuff. Still having Royale in the back of my mind, I played with it and instantly fell back in love with it. I knew not everything was perfect, but Greg helped me greatly with the AMF stuff, Carlos helped me with getting back into the saddle with the changed Royale concepts.

So I chatted with a few folks as I noticed the last release was already half a year ago to what the issue was. I was told that people in the project were hesitant to participate as a RM as the last times this was done it was perceived as a pretty intense task. This was the first time I directly heard about “the 13 steps”.

So I sort of have a trail of helping other projects if they are having problems with releasing and in particular with Maven builds, so I thought I’d give it a try and have a look if I can help.

I forked all 3 Royale repos and had a look at the maven build.

I found quite a lot of things I recognized from other projects and therefore could imagine what they were intended for. In the end I found a lot of workarounds for previous problems in the build. Problems that were now obsolete or for which other approaches are much simpler. Also I knew quite a few solutions to problems that were previously reported. So I cleaned up the plugin configuration, I cleaned up with the profiles. Last I even added some checks that validate the local machine configuration if everything is setup correctly.

This was intended as a proposal for improvement. I knew that especially renaming profiles will have an influence on tooling that is calling these. I did test if it broke the normal Ant build, but it didn’t. So the only parts I could imagine would be affected would be Jenkins Steps and Ant Automation built around Maven. My hope was that we could work together to adjust these parts and in the end all be happy.

Unfortunately the PR was merged within a timeframe I felt extremely uncomfortable with. I even told the person who merged it that I would have been happy if he hadn’t done that.

I think this was when things got off the rails.

We started an extremely unhealthy communication with me using community members as proxies as I didn’t feel welcome in participating on the list directly (To the reasons why, I have had one on one video chats with some Royale folks). I decided to subscribe despite my hesitation when I saw that things weren’t transported 100% the way I had intended them to. So to prevent things from going off the rails even more I subscribed.

I had 100% good intentions … after all I wanted to start using Royale again. But seeing the first responses blaming me of not being able to release made me switch to “defensive mode” … in the following discussions I have to admit that I also switched to “confrontive discussion mode”, which I shouldn’t have. I would like to apologize for this. Also I was told people felt personally attacked by my emails. I re-read them multiple times. I would say that I showed dissent, but I didn’t see or intend them as attacks. If on the other side they were perceived as such, I would like to apologize and assure they were not meant as personal attacks.

So I hope anyone here that felt attacked by me will accept my apology.

If you folks want to, I will be happy to assist, if not – that’s probably something I have to live with.

In that case I will probably just unsubscribe and leave you alone.


Chris

Re: Hi and sorry for the mess ...

[Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com>]

Thank you for this narrative, Chris. Helps me understand a lot.

Here's a thing you could help me with in the documentation line: when you
came to Royale after a long period away from the FlexJS world, what were
the elements of Royale that were the least intuitive and the trickiest to
figure out? For me, to give an example, strands and beads have been a
struggle (not so much the concept as finding the right bead to go with the
right component).

I want to provide better guidance in the docs on the tricky areas. Would be
happy for any topics you can suggest, or text you could provide.

Andrew

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:38 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to take the opportunity of a quiet Friday and say hello and
> apologize for any mess my appearance here might have caused.
>
> For all of those to whom I might be a new face, I was strongly involved in
> the past in the Flex project when Royale was still called FlexJS.
> Let’s say our ways parted for quite some time. Possibly not on the best
> terms.
>
> In the past I have been working sort of on the opposite side of IT than
> UI: In the Apache PLC4X project. Here I’m mainly talking to industrial
> hardware.
> The thing is: I loved Flex, I loved what FlexJS/Royale was then promising
> to be so I kept following the project from a birds-eye-view. But admittedly
> I didn’t build anything with it.
>
> As PLC4X was maturing more and more I more and more had requests asking me
> to actually build application using PLC4X to show industrial machineries
> state and to interact with it. Therefore I had to go back into UI-stuff.
> Still having Royale in the back of my mind, I played with it and instantly
> fell back in love with it. I knew not everything was perfect, but Greg
> helped me greatly with the AMF stuff, Carlos helped me with getting back
> into the saddle with the changed Royale concepts.
>
> So I chatted with a few folks as I noticed the last release was already
> half a year ago to what the issue was. I was told that people in the
> project were hesitant to participate as a RM as the last times this was
> done it was perceived as a pretty intense task. This was the first time I
> directly heard about “the 13 steps”.
>
> So I sort of have a trail of helping other projects if they are having
> problems with releasing and in particular with Maven builds, so I thought
> I’d give it a try and have a look if I can help.
>
> I forked all 3 Royale repos and had a look at the maven build.
>
> I found quite a lot of things I recognized from other projects and
> therefore could imagine what they were intended for. In the end I found a
> lot of workarounds for previous problems in the build. Problems that were
> now obsolete or for which other approaches are much simpler. Also I knew
> quite a few solutions to problems that were previously reported. So I
> cleaned up the plugin configuration, I cleaned up with the profiles. Last I
> even added some checks that validate the local machine configuration if
> everything is setup correctly.
>
> This was intended as a proposal for improvement. I knew that especially
> renaming profiles will have an influence on tooling that is calling these.
> I did test if it broke the normal Ant build, but it didn’t. So the only
> parts I could imagine would be affected would be Jenkins Steps and Ant
> Automation built around Maven. My hope was that we could work together to
> adjust these parts and in the end all be happy.
>
> Unfortunately the PR was merged within a timeframe I felt extremely
> uncomfortable with. I even told the person who merged it that I would have
> been happy if he hadn’t done that.
>
> I think this was when things got off the rails.
>
> We started an extremely unhealthy communication with me using community
> members as proxies as I didn’t feel welcome in participating on the list
> directly (To the reasons why, I have had one on one video chats with some
> Royale folks). I decided to subscribe despite my hesitation when I saw that
> things weren’t transported 100% the way I had intended them to. So to
> prevent things from going off the rails even more I subscribed.
>
> I had 100% good intentions … after all I wanted to start using Royale
> again. But seeing the first responses blaming me of not being able to
> release made me switch to “defensive mode” … in the following discussions I
> have to admit that I also switched to “confrontive discussion mode”, which
> I shouldn’t have. I would like to apologize for this. Also I was told
> people felt personally attacked by my emails. I re-read them multiple
> times. I would say that I showed dissent, but I didn’t see or intend them
> as attacks. If on the other side they were perceived as such, I would like
> to apologize and assure they were not meant as personal attacks.
>
> So I hope anyone here that felt attacked by me will accept my apology.
>
> If you folks want to, I will be happy to assist, if not – that’s probably
> something I have to live with.
>
> In that case I will probably just unsubscribe and leave you alone.
>
>
> Chris
>
>

-- 
Andrew Wetmore

http://cottage14.blogspot.com/

RE: Hi and sorry for the mess ...

[Yishay Weiss <yi...@hotmail.com>]

Thanks Chris. Here’s to turning a new page!

From: Christofer Dutz<ma...@c-ware.de>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 4:38 PM
To: dev@royale.apache.org<ma...@royale.apache.org>
Subject: Hi and sorry for the mess ...

Hi all,

I would like to take the opportunity of a quiet Friday and say hello and apologize for any mess my appearance here might have caused.

For all of those to whom I might be a new face, I was strongly involved in the past in the Flex project when Royale was still called FlexJS.
Let’s say our ways parted for quite some time. Possibly not on the best terms.

In the past I have been working sort of on the opposite side of IT than UI: In the Apache PLC4X project. Here I’m mainly talking to industrial hardware.
The thing is: I loved Flex, I loved what FlexJS/Royale was then promising to be so I kept following the project from a birds-eye-view. But admittedly I didn’t build anything with it.

As PLC4X was maturing more and more I more and more had requests asking me to actually build application using PLC4X to show industrial machineries state and to interact with it. Therefore I had to go back into UI-stuff. Still having Royale in the back of my mind, I played with it and instantly fell back in love with it. I knew not everything was perfect, but Greg helped me greatly with the AMF stuff, Carlos helped me with getting back into the saddle with the changed Royale concepts.

So I chatted with a few folks as I noticed the last release was already half a year ago to what the issue was. I was told that people in the project were hesitant to participate as a RM as the last times this was done it was perceived as a pretty intense task. This was the first time I directly heard about “the 13 steps”.

So I sort of have a trail of helping other projects if they are having problems with releasing and in particular with Maven builds, so I thought I’d give it a try and have a look if I can help.

I forked all 3 Royale repos and had a look at the maven build.

I found quite a lot of things I recognized from other projects and therefore could imagine what they were intended for. In the end I found a lot of workarounds for previous problems in the build. Problems that were now obsolete or for which other approaches are much simpler. Also I knew quite a few solutions to problems that were previously reported. So I cleaned up the plugin configuration, I cleaned up with the profiles. Last I even added some checks that validate the local machine configuration if everything is setup correctly.

This was intended as a proposal for improvement. I knew that especially renaming profiles will have an influence on tooling that is calling these. I did test if it broke the normal Ant build, but it didn’t. So the only parts I could imagine would be affected would be Jenkins Steps and Ant Automation built around Maven. My hope was that we could work together to adjust these parts and in the end all be happy.

Unfortunately the PR was merged within a timeframe I felt extremely uncomfortable with. I even told the person who merged it that I would have been happy if he hadn’t done that.

I think this was when things got off the rails.

We started an extremely unhealthy communication with me using community members as proxies as I didn’t feel welcome in participating on the list directly (To the reasons why, I have had one on one video chats with some Royale folks). I decided to subscribe despite my hesitation when I saw that things weren’t transported 100% the way I had intended them to. So to prevent things from going off the rails even more I subscribed.

I had 100% good intentions … after all I wanted to start using Royale again. But seeing the first responses blaming me of not being able to release made me switch to “defensive mode” … in the following discussions I have to admit that I also switched to “confrontive discussion mode”, which I shouldn’t have. I would like to apologize for this. Also I was told people felt personally attacked by my emails. I re-read them multiple times. I would say that I showed dissent, but I didn’t see or intend them as attacks. If on the other side they were perceived as such, I would like to apologize and assure they were not meant as personal attacks.

So I hope anyone here that felt attacked by me will accept my apology.

If you folks want to, I will be happy to assist, if not – that’s probably something I have to live with.

In that case I will probably just unsubscribe and leave you alone.


Chris

Re: Hi and sorry for the mess ...

[Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>]

Hi Chris,

I had to admit my bad here since I was how merged it. I must say as any
other PR I merged, I feel it was ok and a very good improvement over what
we had. Maybe nobody here can't say the opposite since now the actual maven
build is far easy efficient and requires much less configuration in the
local machine than before. Maybe for that reason I did it in that time
frame. Sometimes, things happen that way, and I think we should all try to
be more tolerant and think that as a community we all try to do our best
for the project. We are also in "develop" branch to handle things coming
and continue testing if something could be wrong. So if something is done
wrong at some time, we can improve it over time.

Maybe the problem is to find the good middle point that make contribution
flows and make people confident that can spend his time on Royale to
make the project improve. I think for tiny things is easy, for more complex
things like the one you did is more complex, and demands more from all of
us, not just me and you. As well as more disruptive the change is, it
demands more from all of us to ensure all is ok. In the other hand having
fear to this kind of changes could make this project not to improve as it
require to be more usable and competitive.

Thanks for taking the time to send this note. And apologize for the part
that I'm responsible :)

Carlos


El vie., 29 may. 2020 a las 15:38, Christofer Dutz (<
christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>) escribió:

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to take the opportunity of a quiet Friday and say hello and
> apologize for any mess my appearance here might have caused.
>
> For all of those to whom I might be a new face, I was strongly involved in
> the past in the Flex project when Royale was still called FlexJS.
> Let’s say our ways parted for quite some time. Possibly not on the best
> terms.
>
> In the past I have been working sort of on the opposite side of IT than
> UI: In the Apache PLC4X project. Here I’m mainly talking to industrial
> hardware.
> The thing is: I loved Flex, I loved what FlexJS/Royale was then promising
> to be so I kept following the project from a birds-eye-view. But admittedly
> I didn’t build anything with it.
>
> As PLC4X was maturing more and more I more and more had requests asking me
> to actually build application using PLC4X to show industrial machineries
> state and to interact with it. Therefore I had to go back into UI-stuff.
> Still having Royale in the back of my mind, I played with it and instantly
> fell back in love with it. I knew not everything was perfect, but Greg
> helped me greatly with the AMF stuff, Carlos helped me with getting back
> into the saddle with the changed Royale concepts.
>
> So I chatted with a few folks as I noticed the last release was already
> half a year ago to what the issue was. I was told that people in the
> project were hesitant to participate as a RM as the last times this was
> done it was perceived as a pretty intense task. This was the first time I
> directly heard about “the 13 steps”.
>
> So I sort of have a trail of helping other projects if they are having
> problems with releasing and in particular with Maven builds, so I thought
> I’d give it a try and have a look if I can help.
>
> I forked all 3 Royale repos and had a look at the maven build.
>
> I found quite a lot of things I recognized from other projects and
> therefore could imagine what they were intended for. In the end I found a
> lot of workarounds for previous problems in the build. Problems that were
> now obsolete or for which other approaches are much simpler. Also I knew
> quite a few solutions to problems that were previously reported. So I
> cleaned up the plugin configuration, I cleaned up with the profiles. Last I
> even added some checks that validate the local machine configuration if
> everything is setup correctly.
>
> This was intended as a proposal for improvement. I knew that especially
> renaming profiles will have an influence on tooling that is calling these.
> I did test if it broke the normal Ant build, but it didn’t. So the only
> parts I could imagine would be affected would be Jenkins Steps and Ant
> Automation built around Maven. My hope was that we could work together to
> adjust these parts and in the end all be happy.
>
> Unfortunately the PR was merged within a timeframe I felt extremely
> uncomfortable with. I even told the person who merged it that I would have
> been happy if he hadn’t done that.
>
> I think this was when things got off the rails.
>
> We started an extremely unhealthy communication with me using community
> members as proxies as I didn’t feel welcome in participating on the list
> directly (To the reasons why, I have had one on one video chats with some
> Royale folks). I decided to subscribe despite my hesitation when I saw that
> things weren’t transported 100% the way I had intended them to. So to
> prevent things from going off the rails even more I subscribed.
>
> I had 100% good intentions … after all I wanted to start using Royale
> again. But seeing the first responses blaming me of not being able to
> release made me switch to “defensive mode” … in the following discussions I
> have to admit that I also switched to “confrontive discussion mode”, which
> I shouldn’t have. I would like to apologize for this. Also I was told
> people felt personally attacked by my emails. I re-read them multiple
> times. I would say that I showed dissent, but I didn’t see or intend them
> as attacks. If on the other side they were perceived as such, I would like
> to apologize and assure they were not meant as personal attacks.
>
> So I hope anyone here that felt attacked by me will accept my apology.
>
> If you folks want to, I will be happy to assist, if not – that’s probably
> something I have to live with.
>
> In that case I will probably just unsubscribe and leave you alone.
>
>
> Chris
>
>

-- 
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira