Isn't nuvem at least similar to whirr?

[Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com>]

Except the fact that we don't expose existing service apis, there seems to be a high overlap. Perhaps they didn't know about whirr, yet?

-Adrian

http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Nuvem

Re: Isn't nuvem at least similar to whirr?

[Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com>]

More history, in case you're curious :)

jclouds didn't start out doing IaaS.  That came later.  Our first service
was blobstore, which is a platform as a service offering.  We then
considered queuing and table.  However the only apis that existed were
significantly different (Azure vs Amazon), and there was also zero demand
for portability between them.  BlobStore was made to address the first
concern of Nuvem, and remains a popular component of jclouds.  In fact
google appengine unlocking drove a lot of the design (over a year ago when
it was designed).

I've mentioned over the last year and a half many times about the concept of
provisioning over and under apis.  When jclouds entered the provisioning
space, you could now provision platforms missing from environments, or ones
that you just don't like.  In essence, you can build under the api you wish
to achieve.  To that end, tools like pallet and whirr came up to assist with
the stack building.  Placing an api on top isn't most of the work, its
actually the yak shaving and cat herding of getting a reliable set of
semantically equivalent services underneath.

It may be the case that the Nuvem team know more about the paas services in
cloud api land than I do.  My last 20 months living and breathing this stuff
says that there aren't enough cloud paas apis for a meaningful abstraction
for most services, and that putting control apis on platforms you build
yourself is more likely what it will end up as.  I don't see that as very
different than whirr, but maybe I'm just plum crazy ;)

This doesn't mean we couldn't use their help, or visa versa.  I'm just
saying that if you look deeply, goals are very aligned.

-a

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com> wrote:

> Well, it does clearly say they will build them on clouds where the
> platforms don't exist.  The reason why jclouds doesn't abstract all
> platforms is that most only exist on one cloud.  In practice, I could see
> Nuvem as standardizing apis for services whirr builds.
>
> How was your shower?
> ;)
>
> -A
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Jeff Hammerbacher <ha...@cloudera.com>wrote:
>
>> From my brief reading, Nuvem seems to want to abstract PaaS cloud
>> providers,
>> while jclouds wants to abstract IaaS cloud providers, and Whirr wants to
>> deploy platform services on IaaS cloud providers.
>>
>> I'm going to go take a shower now.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Except the fact that we don't expose existing service apis, there seems
>> to
>> > be a high overlap. Perhaps they didn't know about whirr, yet?
>> >
>> > -Adrian
>> >
>> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Nuvem
>>
>
>

Re: Isn't nuvem at least similar to whirr?

[Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com>]

Well, it does clearly say they will build them on clouds where the platforms
don't exist.  The reason why jclouds doesn't abstract all platforms is that
most only exist on one cloud.  In practice, I could see Nuvem as
standardizing apis for services whirr builds.

How was your shower?
;)

-A

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Jeff Hammerbacher <ha...@cloudera.com>wrote:

> From my brief reading, Nuvem seems to want to abstract PaaS cloud
> providers,
> while jclouds wants to abstract IaaS cloud providers, and Whirr wants to
> deploy platform services on IaaS cloud providers.
>
> I'm going to go take a shower now.
>
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com> wrote:
>
> > Except the fact that we don't expose existing service apis, there seems
> to
> > be a high overlap. Perhaps they didn't know about whirr, yet?
> >
> > -Adrian
> >
> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Nuvem
>

Re: Isn't nuvem at least similar to whirr?

[Jeff Hammerbacher <ha...@cloudera.com>]

>From my brief reading, Nuvem seems to want to abstract PaaS cloud providers,
while jclouds wants to abstract IaaS cloud providers, and Whirr wants to
deploy platform services on IaaS cloud providers.

I'm going to go take a shower now.

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com> wrote:

> Except the fact that we don't expose existing service apis, there seems to
> be a high overlap. Perhaps they didn't know about whirr, yet?
>
> -Adrian
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Nuvem

Re: Isn't nuvem at least similar to whirr?

[Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com>]

I suppose this part is what I mean wrt whirr:

For clouds that does not provide a specific application service on their
> platform, we would work with Apache sibling projects such as Hadoop, CouchDB
> and Cassandra for data store, or ActiveMQ and Qpid for queueing for example,
> to close the gap.
>

whirr would seem to be an ideal way for them to achieve this, right?  I've
also reached out, too.

-Adrian

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Tom White <to...@cloudera.com> wrote:

> Adrian,
>
> Thanks for the pointer. It looks like Nuvem is focusing on defining
> common service APIs (e.g. a key-value store API), with a variety of
> underlying implementations. Whirr is focusing on running services
> (like Hadoop, ZooKeeper) on variety of cloud providers; it doesn't aim
> to provide common APIs for these services. But you're right that there
> may be some overlap. Worth reaching out, I suspect.
>
> Cheers,
> Tom
>
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com> wrote:
> > Except the fact that we don't expose existing service apis, there seems
> to be a high overlap. Perhaps they didn't know about whirr, yet?
> >
> > -Adrian
> >
> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Nuvem
>

Re: Isn't nuvem at least similar to whirr?

[Tom White <to...@cloudera.com>]

Adrian,

Thanks for the pointer. It looks like Nuvem is focusing on defining
common service APIs (e.g. a key-value store API), with a variety of
underlying implementations. Whirr is focusing on running services
(like Hadoop, ZooKeeper) on variety of cloud providers; it doesn't aim
to provide common APIs for these services. But you're right that there
may be some overlap. Worth reaching out, I suspect.

Cheers,
Tom

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Adrian Cole <ad...@opscode.com> wrote:
> Except the fact that we don't expose existing service apis, there seems to be a high overlap. Perhaps they didn't know about whirr, yet?
>
> -Adrian
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Nuvem