You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> on 2007/02/14 00:15:28 UTC
[VOTE] log4net graduation
Votes have recently concluded on log4net-dev@logging favoring
graduation (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/logging-log4net-
dev/200702.mbox/%3cE26B5D8D-E7E1-4A59-91F7-40028A6A3D04@apache.org%
3e) and on general@logging favoring accepting log4net (http://mail-
archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/logging-general/200702.mbox/%
3cC6BBE7C1-85A3-4E61-9A28-3860A54000A9@apache.org%3e). Vote
summaries are not in the archives yet, but the acceptance vote
carried with 5 +1 from PMC members, 1 other +1 and the log4net-dev
vote carried with 2 +1 PMC votes, 2 +1 committer votes with no other
votes on either.
There was a discussion on the incubator exit criteria (http://mail-
archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/logging-log4net-dev/200702.mbox/%
3c1878D32B-395C-46FD-B86A-8111D93A71A9@apache.org%3e) at the same
time as the graduation vote on log4net-dev. The most significant
concern was of the 7 nominal committers only 4 have been committed in
the last year, two of them are founders of the same firm (nicko and
niall) and one of them (me, carnold) has only made trivial changes.
There had been several individuals who had submitted patches that had
been incorporated, however no individual had established a pattern of
submissions which would suggest them as a potential additional
committer.
The log4net-dev community appears healthy and I believes warrants
graduation from the incubator and has my +1 as mentor and incubator
PMC member.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 2/13/07, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> The log4net-dev community appears healthy and I believes warrants
> graduation from the incubator and has my +1 as mentor and incubator
> PMC member.
Thanks for the email and the response to Yoav!
+1 for graduation. -- justin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Curt Arnold wrote:
>
> The log4net-dev community appears healthy and I believes warrants
> graduation from the incubator and has my +1 as mentor and incubator PMC
> member.
+1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Thursday 15 February 2007 13:32, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> > There had been several individuals who had submitted patches that
> > had been incorporated, however no individual had established a
> > pattern of submissions which would suggest them as a potential
> > additional committer.
>
> I've been watching the log4net project for a long time now and can
> attest that this actually has happened in the case of Ron. He was the
> first one who showed enough interest in long-term contibutions and was
> quickly voted in as a committer.
>
> The user community of log4net is huge and goes far beyond what is
> visible on the user list. I've been doing .NET development IRL for
> the past 2+ years, have seen several shops doing .NET development over
> that time, log4net was everywhere.
>
> > The log4net-dev community appears healthy and I believes warrants
> > graduation from the incubator and has my +1 as mentor and incubator
> > PMC member.
Thanks for the report;
+1 from me too.
Cheers
Niclas
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On 2/15/07, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...The user community of log4net is huge and goes far beyond what is
> visible on the user list...
Thanks Stefan and others for the clarifications.
+1 for log4net graduation.
-Bertrand
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> There had been several individuals who had submitted patches that
> had been incorporated, however no individual had established a
> pattern of submissions which would suggest them as a potential
> additional committer.
I've been watching the log4net project for a long time now and can
attest that this actually has happened in the case of Ron. He was the
first one who showed enough interest in long-term contibutions and was
quickly voted in as a committer.
The user community of log4net is huge and goes far beyond what is
visible on the user list. I've been doing .NET development IRL for
the past 2+ years, have seen several shops doing .NET development over
that time, log4net was everywhere.
> The log4net-dev community appears healthy and I believes warrants
> graduation from the incubator and has my +1 as mentor and incubator
> PMC member.
+1
Stefan
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
Having read your note I'm also +1.
Paul
On 2/14/07, Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 2/14/07, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Growing committers for an mature project is hard when most users are
> <snip />
>
> Thanks for a long, but welcome explanation of the situation for those
> of us unfamiliar with it.
>
> +1 to graduating log4net.
>
> Yoav
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 2/14/07, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > On 2/14/07, Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On 2/14/07, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > Growing committers for an mature project is hard when most users are
> >> <snip />
> >>
> >> Thanks for a long, but welcome explanation of the situation for those
> >> of us unfamiliar with it.
> >>
> >> +1 to graduating log4net.
> >
> > is the source in the incubator repository?
>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/logging/log4net/
>
> Presumably it predates the time when incubating subprojects had their
> code in the incubator repo.
+1
time logging took this on
- robert
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 2/14/07, Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 2/14/07, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > Growing committers for an mature project is hard when most users are
>> <snip />
>>
>> Thanks for a long, but welcome explanation of the situation for those
>> of us unfamiliar with it.
>>
>> +1 to graduating log4net.
>
> is the source in the incubator repository?
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/logging/log4net/
Presumably it predates the time when incubating subprojects had their
code in the incubator repo.
Upayavira
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 2/14/07, Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 2/14/07, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Growing committers for an mature project is hard when most users are
> <snip />
>
> Thanks for a long, but welcome explanation of the situation for those
> of us unfamiliar with it.
>
> +1 to graduating log4net.
is the source in the incubator repository?
- robert
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On 2/14/07, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> Growing committers for an mature project is hard when most users are
<snip />
Thanks for a long, but welcome explanation of the situation for those
of us unfamiliar with it.
+1 to graduating log4net.
Yoav
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org>.
On Feb 14, 2007, at 7:02 AM, Yoav Shapira wrote:
> Hi,
> This is a bit of an unusual case and I'm not sure how to vote.
>
> Stuff that makes me worry about log4net:
> - The community seems to be shrinking, not growing, even though past
> status reports have made it a top point to expand the community.
> - There has been no release in almost a year, since 1.2.10 in March
> 2006, even though several status reports say a bug fix release is
> forthcoming.
>
> Stuff that makes me feel good:
> - All code cleared legally
> - All code ASL-licensed
> - Good interaction with its sponsoring TLP (Logging Services)
> - Vote for acceptance by the sponsoring TLP
>
> My specific concern is with the Incubator exit criterion of ""The
> project is not highly dependent on any single contributor (there's at
> least 3 legally independent committers and there is no single company
> or entity that is vital to the success of the project)". The project
> doesn't meet that criterion now, does it?
>
Growing committers for an mature project is hard when most users are
generally satisfied and most contributions are single-shot patches to
address a users' particular interest. The number of users submitting
patches in the last year on JIRA indicates that the code is
accessible enough that many users can contribute, though I could not
identify any individual that had a pattern of contributions
particularly addressing the concerns of others.
The overall community appears stable from reviewing the message
counts on log4net-dev and log4net-user over the last several years.
Maybe a slight decline, but not a drop off a cliff.
I do not believe any single company or entity is vital to the success
of the project. I believe the project has achieved its overall
objectives and is already a success. I do not believe that the
project is highly dependent on any single contributor. Loss of all
the current active committers would not be desirable and would impact
future maintenance releases, but would not be anywhere as fatal to
the project as a minor loss during of a project in a construction or
stabilization phase.
The project does meet the 3 legally independent committers criteria
as long if you are generous with the recentness of the last commit or
the nature of their changes. Nicko Cadell and Ron Grabowski clearly
satisfy the first two slots as active committers with no legal
relationship. Then there is the debatable 3rd committer:
Niall Daley: last commit 2005-12-16, last log4net-dev posting
2007-02-11. Partner in same firm as Nicko.
Gert Driesen: last commit 2005-12-11, last log4net-dev posting
2006-03-09. Not aware of any legal relationship. Gert is an active
NAnt committer and I have requested that he make a statement
regarding his log4net involvement.
Curt Arnold, last commit 2007-02-09, last log4net-dev posting
2007-02-14. Logging PMC chair. Have used and submitted patches
against log4net in a previous lifetime (prior to log4net's migration
to ASF) but have only monitored log4net and made a trivial commit
recently.
There are a couple of manipulative ways of dressing up the
situation. I could fire up my .NET development environment and knock
off a few patches or work up an Ant build to prove my log4net-foo or
Gert could do the same to show that he is still engaged in the
project or commit privileges could be granted a contributor who has
submitted a decent patch but has established history. I don't think
any of these would actually benefit the project.
The release issue is a bit of chicken and egg. A pending graduation
would postpone preparation of a release (ahem, development snapshot)
since you'd prefer to have graduation first then a release following
with all the incubator disclaimers removed. If that is the blocker,
then the log4net-dev team could produce a release candidate with the
incubator disclaimers removed, accept it on their dev list, inform
the general@incubator and request another vote, and if successful
request the Logging Services PMC to approve the release.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 2/14/07, Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
> My specific concern is with the Incubator exit criterion of ""The
> project is not highly dependent on any single contributor (there's at
> least 3 legally independent committers and there is no single company
> or entity that is vital to the success of the project)". The project
> doesn't meet that criterion now, does it?
Personally, I view this as more important when a project goes TLP -
but if it is getting subsumed into an existing healthy and diverse
PMC, I'm not sure this is really as important. -- justin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
Hi,
This is a bit of an unusual case and I'm not sure how to vote.
Stuff that makes me worry about log4net:
- The community seems to be shrinking, not growing, even though past
status reports have made it a top point to expand the community.
- There has been no release in almost a year, since 1.2.10 in March
2006, even though several status reports say a bug fix release is
forthcoming.
Stuff that makes me feel good:
- All code cleared legally
- All code ASL-licensed
- Good interaction with its sponsoring TLP (Logging Services)
- Vote for acceptance by the sponsoring TLP
My specific concern is with the Incubator exit criterion of ""The
project is not highly dependent on any single contributor (there's at
least 3 legally independent committers and there is no single company
or entity that is vital to the success of the project)". The project
doesn't meet that criterion now, does it?
Yoav
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On Feb 14, 2007, at 12:15 AM, Curt Arnold wrote:
> The log4net-dev community appears healthy and I believes warrants
> graduation from the incubator and has my +1 as mentor and incubator
> PMC member.
+1
- Leo
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org