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Posted to dev@perl.apache.org by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> on 2004/07/13 01:30:03 UTC
[mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it is
again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one can
require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be patched to do
the same.
I still want to have PAUSE support multi-generations, but this seems
like a cheap workaround for the current dependency problem.
Index: lib/Apache/Build.pm
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/cvs/modperl-2.0/lib/Apache/Build.pm,v
retrieving revision 1.164
diff -u -r1.164 Build.pm
--- lib/Apache/Build.pm 4 Jul 2004 18:44:49 -0000 1.164
+++ lib/Apache/Build.pm 12 Jul 2004 23:25:44 -0000
@@ -1752,7 +1752,12 @@
sub generate_apache2_pm {
my $self = shift;
- my $fixup = !$self->{MP_INST_APACHE2}
+ my $fixup = << 'EOF';
+our $VERSION = do { require Apache2; require mod_perl;
$mod_perl::VERSION };
+
+EOF
+
+ $fixup .= !$self->{MP_INST_APACHE2}
? '# MP_INST_APACHE2=0, do nothing'
: <<'EOF';
BEGIN {
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by David Wheeler <da...@kineticode.com>.
On Jul 12, 2004, at 5:32 PM, Stas Bekman wrote:
> Depends on what's your goal. What if you have both installed? You will
> never get 1.
That might be preferable. ;-)
> This patch introduces nothing that you can't easily do without it. The
> only purpose is to workaround CPAN/PAUSE limitations.
>
> moreover at the moment mp1's Apache is invalid, and for mp2 anything
> before the next version won't have $Apache2::VERSION at all. So it's
> probably only after 2.0 is released and we completely deprecated
> 1.99_xx, you will be able to rely on that. Therefore it's better to
> continue documenting that one should check $mod_perl::VERSION.
Okay.
> 99% of the user docs are FAQ. so if you call those docs or FAQ it's
> exactly the same thing.
Heh, okay.
David
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
David Wheeler wrote:
> On Jul 12, 2004, at 5:12 PM, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>> It does so only for mod_perl itself. It doesn't solve it for CPAN
>> modules.
>
>
> Yes, but it allows them to solve it themselves:
>
> use constant => MODPERL = eval { require Apache2 } ? 2 : eval { require
> Apache } ? 1 : die $@;
>
> Right?
Depends on what's your goal. What if you have both installed? You will
never get 1.
This patch introduces nothing that you can't easily do without it. The
only purpose is to workaround CPAN/PAUSE limitations.
moreover at the moment mp1's Apache is invalid, and for mp2 anything
before the next version won't have $Apache2::VERSION at all. So it's
probably only after 2.0 is released and we completely deprecated
1.99_xx, you will be able to rely on that. Therefore it's better to
continue documenting that one should check $mod_perl::VERSION.
>> The only drawback I can see is a new potential for confusion: "which
>> module should I require, mod_perl or Apache2", which of course will be
>> documented, but who reads docs nowadays...
>
>
> Not me! ;-)
>
> Seriously, I think that the gradually improving docs will help. And this
> sort of thing should definitely go into the FAQ.
99% of the user docs are FAQ. so if you call those docs or FAQ it's
exactly the same thing.
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by David Wheeler <da...@kineticode.com>.
On Jul 12, 2004, at 5:12 PM, Stas Bekman wrote:
> It does so only for mod_perl itself. It doesn't solve it for CPAN
> modules.
Yes, but it allows them to solve it themselves:
use constant => MODPERL = eval { require Apache2 } ? 2 : eval { require
Apache } ? 1 : die $@;
Right?
> The only drawback I can see is a new potential for confusion: "which
> module should I require, mod_perl or Apache2", which of course will be
> documented, but who reads docs nowadays...
Not me! ;-)
Seriously, I think that the gradually improving docs will help. And
this sort of thing should definitely go into the FAQ.
Regards,
David
--
David Wheeler
President, Kineticode, Inc.
http://www.kineticode.com/
Kineticode. Setting knowledge in motion.[sm]
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
David Wheeler wrote:
> On Jul 12, 2004, at 4:42 PM, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>>>> In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it
>>>>> is again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one
>>>>> can require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be
>>>>> patched to do the same.
>>
>>
>> But let's wait a bit so others can chime in if they are against the
>> change.
>
>
> If this really solves the version problem (and it seems like it does),
> then I say, +1!
It does so only for mod_perl itself. It doesn't solve it for CPAN modules.
The only drawback I can see is a new potential for confusion: "which
module should I require, mod_perl or Apache2", which of course will be
documented, but who reads docs nowadays...
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by David Wheeler <da...@kineticode.com>.
On Jul 12, 2004, at 4:42 PM, Stas Bekman wrote:
>>>> In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it
>>>> is again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one
>>>> can require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be
>>>> patched to do the same.
>
> But let's wait a bit so others can chime in if they are against the
> change.
If this really solves the version problem (and it seems like it does),
then I say, +1!
Regards,
David
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Randy Kobes <ra...@theoryx5.uwinnipeg.ca>.
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004, Stas Bekman wrote:
> Stas Bekman wrote:
> > Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
> >> Stas Bekman wrote:
> >>
> >>> In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it is
> >>> again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one can
> >>> require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be patched to
> >>> do the same.
> >>
> >> It's funny, I just peeked at Apache.pm in mp1, and it seems to specify
> >> it's own version at 1.27 while mod_perl.pm is at 1.28 ;-)
> >>
> >> our $VERSION = do { require mod_perl; $mod_perl::VERSION };
> >>
> >> would also do the trick for mod_perl 1.x
> >
> > Let's commit those in unison then :)
>
> But let's wait a bit so others can chime in if they are
> against the change.
+1 (for the changes)
--
best regards,
randy
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by "Philippe M. Chiasson" <go...@ectoplasm.org>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Stas Bekman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it is
>>>>again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one can
>>>>require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be patched to
>>>>do the same.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>It's funny, I just peeked at Apache.pm in mp1, and it seems to specify
>>>it's own version at 1.27 while mod_perl.pm is at 1.28 ;-)
>>>
>>>our $VERSION = do { require mod_perl; $mod_perl::VERSION };
>>>
>>>would also do the trick for mod_perl 1.x
>>
>>
>>Let's commit those in unison then :)
>
>
> But let's wait a bit so others can chime in if they are against the change.
That's what I figured ;-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philippe M. Chiasson m/gozer\@(apache|cpan|ectoplasm)\.org/ GPG KeyID : 88C3A5A5
http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/ F9BF E0C2 480E 7680 1AE5 3631 CB32 A107 88C3A5A5
Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Stas Bekman wrote:
>>
>>> In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it is
>>> again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one can
>>> require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be patched to
>>> do the same.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's funny, I just peeked at Apache.pm in mp1, and it seems to specify
>> it's own version at 1.27 while mod_perl.pm is at 1.28 ;-)
>>
>> our $VERSION = do { require mod_perl; $mod_perl::VERSION };
>>
>> would also do the trick for mod_perl 1.x
>
>
> Let's commit those in unison then :)
But let's wait a bit so others can chime in if they are against the change.
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
>
>
> Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>> In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it is
>> again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one can
>> require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be patched to
>> do the same.
>
>
> It's funny, I just peeked at Apache.pm in mp1, and it seems to specify
> it's own version at 1.27 while mod_perl.pm is at 1.28 ;-)
>
> our $VERSION = do { require mod_perl; $mod_perl::VERSION };
>
> would also do the trick for mod_perl 1.x
Let's commit those in unison then :)
But 'our' can't be used in mp1. You must use: use vars qw($VERSION) instead.
>> I still want to have PAUSE support multi-generations, but this seems
>> like a cheap workaround for the current dependency problem.
>>
>> Index: lib/Apache/Build.pm
>> ===================================================================
>> RCS file: /home/cvs/modperl-2.0/lib/Apache/Build.pm,v
>> retrieving revision 1.164
>> diff -u -r1.164 Build.pm
>> --- lib/Apache/Build.pm 4 Jul 2004 18:44:49 -0000 1.164
>> +++ lib/Apache/Build.pm 12 Jul 2004 23:25:44 -0000
>> @@ -1752,7 +1752,12 @@
>> sub generate_apache2_pm {
>> my $self = shift;
>>
>> - my $fixup = !$self->{MP_INST_APACHE2}
>> + my $fixup = << 'EOF';
>> +our $VERSION = do { require Apache2; require mod_perl;
>> $mod_perl::VERSION };
>> +
>> +EOF
>> +
>> + $fixup .= !$self->{MP_INST_APACHE2}
>> ? '# MP_INST_APACHE2=0, do nothing'
>> : <<'EOF';
>> BEGIN {
>>
>
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by "Philippe M. Chiasson" <go...@ectoplasm.org>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it is
> again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one can
> require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be patched to do
> the same.
It's funny, I just peeked at Apache.pm in mp1, and it seems to specify
it's own version at 1.27 while mod_perl.pm is at 1.28 ;-)
our $VERSION = do { require mod_perl; $mod_perl::VERSION };
would also do the trick for mod_perl 1.x
> I still want to have PAUSE support multi-generations, but this seems
> like a cheap workaround for the current dependency problem.
>
> Index: lib/Apache/Build.pm
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /home/cvs/modperl-2.0/lib/Apache/Build.pm,v
> retrieving revision 1.164
> diff -u -r1.164 Build.pm
> --- lib/Apache/Build.pm 4 Jul 2004 18:44:49 -0000 1.164
> +++ lib/Apache/Build.pm 12 Jul 2004 23:25:44 -0000
> @@ -1752,7 +1752,12 @@
> sub generate_apache2_pm {
> my $self = shift;
>
> - my $fixup = !$self->{MP_INST_APACHE2}
> + my $fixup = << 'EOF';
> +our $VERSION = do { require Apache2; require mod_perl;
> $mod_perl::VERSION };
> +
> +EOF
> +
> + $fixup .= !$self->{MP_INST_APACHE2}
> ? '# MP_INST_APACHE2=0, do nothing'
> : <<'EOF';
> BEGIN {
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philippe M. Chiasson m/gozer\@(apache|cpan|ectoplasm)\.org/ GPG KeyID : 88C3A5A5
http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/ F9BF E0C2 480E 7680 1AE5 3631 CB32 A107 88C3A5A5
Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Randy Kobes wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>
>>Geoffrey Young wrote:
>>
>>>Stas Bekman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>So I suppose we should go with:
>>>>
>>>>our $VERSION = do { require Apache2; require mod_perl;
>>>>$mod_perl::VERSION };
>>>
>>>
>>>sure. I just wanted to make sure I understood what was
>>>going on, just to keep me somewhat involved ;)
>>
>>:)
>>
>>But actually I'm taking that proposal back. There is no
>>added value in it. requiring mod_perl => VERSION is
>>perfectly fine for mp2. It's the requirement of mp1 that
>>consitutes a problem. And given the fact how often mp1 is
>>being released and upgraded to, this whole issue is moot.
>>One is ought to go and pester those in charge of
>>CPAN/PAUSE to support a better versioning scheme there.
>
>
> Independent of the latter, I think there's still
> a reason to use Apache2, rather than mod_perl,
> in a Makefile.PL PREREQ_PM. If someone installs
> mp2 with MP_INST_APACHE2=1, then
> perl -Mmod_perl
> will fail (as mod_perl.pm will be under Apache2/), whereas
> perl -MApache2
> will be OK. Since at the moment CPAN.pm (and I also
> believe, CPANPLUS) don't use Apache2.pm to adjust @INC,
> they won't see a mp2 install with a PREREQ_PM of mod_perl.
Right. All users of mp2 will either need to set PERL5LIB or start those
apps as:
perl -MApache2 ...
because it's not only mod_perl, but also most other CPAN Apache::
modules that will get installed into Apache2/. Same goes for perldoc and
other tools. e.g. we now provide mp2doc which is a wrapper around
perldoc, but it first loads Apache2.
Quite on the opposite it's good to enforce that loading of Apache2. So
if I write the prerequisites for some module as:
mod_perl => 2.01,
Apache::Scoreboard => 2.00,
and a user has adjusted their @INC, then both will be found (assuming
they are installed). If we say:
Apache2 => 2.01,
Apache::Scoreboard => 2.00,
and no @INC adjustment is done, then Apache2 will be found, but not
Apache::Scoreboard.
Moreover it's going to be very confusing since the proposed
$Apache::VERSION does load Apache2, so depending on the hashing
sometimes Apache2.pm will get loaded before other mp2 3rd party modules,
and those will be found, at other times it will be loaded after and they
won't be found. So that behavior will be totally random.
The only always-working-solution that I can see is this: module writers
that require mod_perl 2, will explicitly load Apache2.pm from
Makefile.PL, before they specify the requirements.
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Randy Kobes <ra...@theoryx5.uwinnipeg.ca>.
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Stas Bekman wrote:
> Geoffrey Young wrote:
> >
> > Stas Bekman wrote:
> >
> >>So I suppose we should go with:
> >>
> >>our $VERSION = do { require Apache2; require mod_perl;
> >>$mod_perl::VERSION };
> >
> >
> > sure. I just wanted to make sure I understood what was
> > going on, just to keep me somewhat involved ;)
>
> :)
>
> But actually I'm taking that proposal back. There is no
> added value in it. requiring mod_perl => VERSION is
> perfectly fine for mp2. It's the requirement of mp1 that
> consitutes a problem. And given the fact how often mp1 is
> being released and upgraded to, this whole issue is moot.
> One is ought to go and pester those in charge of
> CPAN/PAUSE to support a better versioning scheme there.
Independent of the latter, I think there's still
a reason to use Apache2, rather than mod_perl,
in a Makefile.PL PREREQ_PM. If someone installs
mp2 with MP_INST_APACHE2=1, then
perl -Mmod_perl
will fail (as mod_perl.pm will be under Apache2/), whereas
perl -MApache2
will be OK. Since at the moment CPAN.pm (and I also
believe, CPANPLUS) don't use Apache2.pm to adjust @INC,
they won't see a mp2 install with a PREREQ_PM of mod_perl.
--
best regards,
randy
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Geoffrey Young wrote:
>
> Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>So I suppose we should go with:
>>
>>our $VERSION = do { require Apache2; require mod_perl;
>>$mod_perl::VERSION };
>
>
> sure. I just wanted to make sure I understood what was going on, just to
> keep me somewhat involved ;)
:)
But actually I'm taking that proposal back. There is no added value in
it. requiring mod_perl => VERSION is perfectly fine for mp2. It's the
requirement of mp1 that consitutes a problem. And given the fact how
often mp1 is being released and upgraded to, this whole issue is moot.
One is ought to go and pester those in charge of CPAN/PAUSE to support a
better versioning scheme there.
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Geoffrey Young <ge...@modperlcookbook.org>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> So I suppose we should go with:
>
> our $VERSION = do { require Apache2; require mod_perl;
> $mod_perl::VERSION };
sure. I just wanted to make sure I understood what was going on, just to
keep me somewhat involved ;)
--Geoff
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
So I suppose we should go with:
our $VERSION = do { require Apache2; require mod_perl;
$mod_perl::VERSION };
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Randy Kobes <ra...@theoryx5.uwinnipeg.ca>.
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Geoffrey Young wrote:
> Stas Bekman wrote:
> > In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it is
> > again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one can
> > require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be patched to do
> > the same.
> >
> > I still want to have PAUSE support multi-generations, but this seems
> > like a cheap workaround for the current dependency problem.
>
> I read through the thread on modperl@ but I still don't
> really grok the issue this patch is trying to solve. I
> mean, I see that it's nice to have mod_perl.pm and
> Apache(2).pm in sync with the same $VERSION (a good idea),
> but outside of it just being nice, what is this buying us
> again?
In a nutshell, the problem is that the PAUSE/CPAN indices
(which CPAN.pm/CPANPLUS.pm) don't allow for multiple module
versions - if one asks to install Foo.pm, the highest
version of Foo.pm will be used. This will be a problem when
mod_perl 2 is released - assuming the $VERSION of
mod_perl.pm in mod_perl-2 is higher than that in mod_perl-1,
then a user using CPAN.pm/CPANPLUS.pm to install mod_perl
will always get mod_perl 2. This might not be so bad for
mod_perl itself, as probably few people install it
automatically, but it will be a problem with 3rd party
modules requiring mod_perl through a PREREQ_PM -
CPAN/CPANPLUS will think they always want mod_perl 2.
The idea behind Apache.pm/Apache2.pm is that these are,
respectively, unique to mp1/mp2. One can then use one of
these modules, rather than mod_perl.pm, in a PREREQ_PM to
demand a particular mod_perl version. The thing with tying
the $VERSION of Apache/Apache2 to the corresponding
mod_perl.pm of mp1/mp2 is that, currently, mod_perl.pm is
used to denote the distribution version, and so by tying
things in this way, a particular mod_perl version can be
required by requiring a particular version of
Apache/Apache2.
That's not much of a nutshell :)
--
best regards,
randy
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Re: [mp2 patch] $Apache2::VERSION
Posted by Geoffrey Young <ge...@modperlcookbook.org>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> In case you may have missed this patch on the users list, here it is
> again. It ties $Apache2::VERSION to $mod_perl::VERSION so one can
> require Apache2 for mp2. If it goes in mp1 should also be patched to do
> the same.
>
> I still want to have PAUSE support multi-generations, but this seems
> like a cheap workaround for the current dependency problem.
I read through the thread on modperl@ but I still don't really grok the
issue this patch is trying to solve. I mean, I see that it's nice to have
mod_perl.pm and Apache(2).pm in sync with the same $VERSION (a good idea),
but outside of it just being nice, what is this buying us again?
--Geoff
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