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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com> on 2002/04/30 23:26:59 UTC
Quick! convert all your projects to maven!
Quick! convert all your projects build.xml files to being controlled by
maven!
<http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/>
The faster we get a centralized build system in Jakarta the better off we
will all be.
Forget the days where you have to edit silly properties files to locate
dependency .jar files...now, maven will do all of that for you!
Maven is the next killer build tool like Ant was.
Everyone should install and use it.
-jon
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Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!
Posted by Jason van Zyl <jv...@zenplex.com>.
On Tue, 2002-04-30 at 17:26, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> Quick! convert all your projects build.xml files to being controlled by
> maven!
>
> <http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/>
>
> The faster we get a centralized build system in Jakarta the better off we
> will all be.
>
> Forget the days where you have to edit silly properties files to locate
> dependency .jar files...now, maven will do all of that for you!
>
> Maven is the next killer build tool like Ant was.
>
> Everyone should install and use it.
I am very thankful for your praise, really.
I encourage people to look at Maven and try to use it but there are some
definite kinks to work out. When Maven hits 1.0 I will be as
enthusiastic as you are!
If people want to try Maven and and give your feedback that would be
great, and would help Maven move along faster to a 1.0 but it is not an
entirely seamless process, as it will be in 1.0, and I don't want people
getting frustrated needlessly. It is highly functional but at the same
time displays certain limitations (like deployment flexibility) that are
highly annoying.
So play if you wish but please be patient :-)
> -jon
>
>
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jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jvanzyl@apache.org
http://tambora.zenplex.org
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Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert allyourprojects to maven!)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Jon Scott Stevens" <jo...@latchkey.com>
> on 4/30/02 3:10 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <ni...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> >> I also see Maven as being more feature complete
> >
> > Sure, does it give automatic build functionality download?
>
> Yes.
In Centipede you just write the name of the /single/ piece of functionality
you want and it gets installed.
> > Does it give you easy skin selection?
>
> Yes.
In centipede you just write the selected skin name as a property.
And skin is not just colors.
> > Does it give you UML class diagrams?
>
> We await your contribution. Personally, I think UML diagrams is a waste of
> time. I can visualize class diagrams in my head without problems by simply
> looking at the source code or javadoc.
Good for you.
> >> as
> >> well as having more developer interest.
> >
> > That's your opinion.
>
> Fact. Do the math.
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/developer-list.html
Nice list.
> >> I also have a serious bias towards
> >> Maven's stylesheet. :-)
> >
> > Centipede has skins, and also a Scarab skin.
> > Next beta will have a Maven skin :-)
>
> Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Then it means we both like tigris ;-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all
yourprojects to maven!)
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 4/30/02 3:10 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <ni...@apache.org> wrote:
>> I also see Maven as being more feature complete
>
> Sure, does it give automatic build functionality download?
Yes.
> Does it give you easy skin selection?
Yes.
> Does it give you UML class diagrams?
We await your contribution. Personally, I think UML diagrams is a waste of
time. I can visualize class diagrams in my head without problems by simply
looking at the source code or javadoc.
>> as
>> well as having more developer interest.
>
> That's your opinion.
Fact. Do the math.
http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/developer-list.html
>> I also have a serious bias towards
>> Maven's stylesheet. :-)
>
> Centipede has skins, and also a Scarab skin.
> Next beta will have a Maven skin :-)
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
-jon
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Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all yourprojects to maven!)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Jon Scott Stevens" <jo...@latchkey.com>
> on 4/30/02 2:46 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <ni...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Krysalis Centipede:
> > http://www.sf.net/projects/krysalis/
> >
> > Site using Centipede:
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
> >
> > You make the decision.
>
> To me, the decision is simple:
>
> Krysalis isn't our own dog food.
Centipede started as a Jakarta POI build.
Then it was used by xml-Forrest.
Then I proposed to put it in Forrest but the community decided that it was
better off on itself for now.
I can't help it if some Jakarta Projects keep on creating sub-projects, that
are not related to the scope of the original project, at their wish.
> I would far rather see whatever Krysalis has incorporated into Maven
because
> Maven is here, not there.
It will take me no time to put it in Jakarta-Commons.
> I also see Maven as being more feature complete
Sure, does it give automatic build functionality download?
Does it give you easy skin selection?
Does it give you UML class diagrams?
> as
> well as having more developer interest.
That's your opinion.
> I also have a serious bias towards
> Maven's stylesheet. :-)
Centipede has skins, and also a Scarab skin.
Next beta will have a Maven skin :-)
> But, the community will decide in the long run...
+1
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all yourprojects to maven!)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Jon Scott Stevens" <jo...@latchkey.com>
> on 4/30/02 2:46 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <ni...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Krysalis Centipede:
> > http://www.sf.net/projects/krysalis/
> >
> > Site using Centipede:
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
> >
> > You make the decision.
>
> To me, the decision is simple:
>
> Krysalis isn't our own dog food.
Centipede started as a Jakarta POI build.
Then it was used by xml-Forrest.
Then I proposed to put it in Forrest but the community decided that it was
better off on itself for now.
I can't help it if some Jakarta Projects keep on creating sub-projects, that
are not related to the scope of the original project, at their wish.
> I would far rather see whatever Krysalis has incorporated into Maven
because
> Maven is here, not there.
It will take me no time to put it in Jakarta-Commons.
> I also see Maven as being more feature complete
Sure, does it give automatic build functionality download?
Does it give you easy skin selection?
Does it give you UML class diagrams?
> as
> well as having more developer interest.
That's your opinion.
> I also have a serious bias towards
> Maven's stylesheet. :-)
Centipede has skins, and also a Scarab skin.
Next beta will have a Maven skin :-)
> But, the community will decide in the long run...
+1
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects
to maven!)
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Daniel Rall wrote:
>"Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> writes:
>
>>I think both projects have nice advantages and features. Maven has good
>>documentation. Centipede is easier to setup and is a bit more advanced
>>in the way it generates documentation. Its a bit alpha but I think the
>>code generation stuff in centipede shows some promise.
>>
>[snip]
>
>What type of code does your build framework generate?
>
Java code. This isn't yet in the main trunk of centipede. It needs to
be further genericised. Granted I wouldn't generate ALL java code from
XML but in these particular cases it makes sense. We even generate a
junit test.. . Like I said, beats the heck out of typing.
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-poi/src/types/definitions/
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-poi/src/types/styles/
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-poi/src/records/definitions/
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-poi/src/records/styles/
The generation stuff is a bit immature but it beats the hell out of
typing any day. For more information on this whole subject:
http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/ppbook/index.shtml
(The why, what and etc of code generation) and perhaps the accompanying
wiki:
http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/cgi-local/pragprog?RaleighPractitioners
-Andy
>
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>
>
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Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)
Posted by Daniel Rall <dl...@finemaltcoding.com>.
"Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> writes:
> I think both projects have nice advantages and features. Maven has good
> documentation. Centipede is easier to setup and is a bit more advanced
> in the way it generates documentation. Its a bit alpha but I think the
> code generation stuff in centipede shows some promise.
[snip]
What type of code does your build framework generate?
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Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects
to maven!)
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
I think both projects have nice advantages and features. Maven has good
documentation. Centipede is easier to setup and is a bit more advanced
in the way it generates documentation. Its a bit alpha but I think the
code generation stuff in centipede shows some promise. I can personally
vouch it works great for lazy people who don't want to type too much if
they don't have too. I kinda don't lik the way the feather looks
against the sold color on the Maven home page. Centipedes multiple
skins are kinda nice. Maven has nicer names for things.
As for dog food. I tend to be anti-quibble over pedantics. I could
give a rats behind what build everyone uses. But set the record
straight. Centipede was developed primarily BY Apache committers,
primarily to the requirements of Apache projects and the just happens to
be hosted elsewhere. Largely because of the politics (read: so Jon
wouldn't have a fit) and the projects who it was developed for/out of
don't really want to host a *build* project. For us its secondary. I
don't see POI converting. Centipede more precisely fits our needs. And
even if it didn't we've got bigger fish to fry (read: formulas, graphs
and word doc format).
So why I applaud the effort. I really think the marketing campaign
could be a bit more low key and pragmatic. Just my opinion...maybe I
should read my tagline again before expressing it. Flame away.
-Andy
On Tue, 2002-04-30 at 18:02, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> on 4/30/02 2:46 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <ni...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Krysalis Centipede:
> > http://www.sf.net/projects/krysalis/
> >
> > Site using Centipede:
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
> >
> > You make the decision.
>
> To me, the decision is simple:
>
> Krysalis isn't our own dog food.
>
> I would far rather see whatever Krysalis has incorporated into Maven because
> Maven is here, not there. I also see Maven as being more feature complete as
> well as having more developer interest. I also have a serious bias towards
> Maven's stylesheet. :-)
>
> But, the community will decide in the long run...
>
> -jon
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound
Document
format to java
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html
- fix java generics!
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote.
-Ambassador Kosh
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Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your
projects to maven!)
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 4/30/02 2:46 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <ni...@apache.org> wrote:
> Krysalis Centipede:
> http://www.sf.net/projects/krysalis/
>
> Site using Centipede:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
>
> You make the decision.
To me, the decision is simple:
Krysalis isn't our own dog food.
I would far rather see whatever Krysalis has incorporated into Maven because
Maven is here, not there. I also see Maven as being more feature complete as
well as having more developer interest. I also have a serious bias towards
Maven's stylesheet. :-)
But, the community will decide in the long run...
-jon
--
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Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your
projects to maven!)
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 4/30/02 2:46 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <ni...@apache.org> wrote:
> Krysalis Centipede:
> http://www.sf.net/projects/krysalis/
>
> Site using Centipede:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
>
> You make the decision.
To me, the decision is simple:
Krysalis isn't our own dog food.
I would far rather see whatever Krysalis has incorporated into Maven because
Maven is here, not there. I also see Maven as being more feature complete as
well as having more developer interest. I also have a serious bias towards
Maven's stylesheet. :-)
But, the community will decide in the long run...
-jon
--
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You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Jon Scott Stevens" <jo...@latchkey.com>
> Quick! convert all your projects build.xml files to being controlled by
> maven!
>
> <http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/>
>
> The faster we get a centralized build system in Jakarta the better off we
> will all be.
>
> Forget the days where you have to edit silly properties files to locate
> dependency .jar files...now, maven will do all of that for you!
>
> Maven is the next killer build tool like Ant was.
>
> Everyone should install and use it.
Krysalis Centipede:
http://www.sf.net/projects/krysalis/
Site using Centipede:
http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
You make the decision.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Jon Scott Stevens" <jo...@latchkey.com>
> Quick! convert all your projects build.xml files to being controlled by
> maven!
>
> <http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/>
>
> The faster we get a centralized build system in Jakarta the better off we
> will all be.
>
> Forget the days where you have to edit silly properties files to locate
> dependency .jar files...now, maven will do all of that for you!
>
> Maven is the next killer build tool like Ant was.
>
> Everyone should install and use it.
Krysalis Centipede:
http://www.sf.net/projects/krysalis/
Site using Centipede:
http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
You make the decision.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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