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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org> on 2004/02/29 18:50:10 UTC
workflow block commited
hi,
the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought
would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms
built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out
the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by
default.
discussion
==========
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=lenya-dev@cocoon.apache.org&by=thread&from=653774
documentation
=============
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/terms.html
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/state-machine.html
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/configuration.html
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/implementation.html
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflow
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflowAPI
issues
======
* the block only compiles with jdk 1.4 (it uses assertions)
you need to set source=1.4 in ant to make it compile..
* there are currently no samples
to do
=====
* remove assertions?
* build a sample based on usage within lenya
lenya integration is done via:
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/apidocs/org/apache/lenya/cms/workflow/package-summary.html
for the lenya integration
* change package from o.a.lenya.workflow to o.a.cocoon.workflow
* move o.a.lenya.xml classes somewhere else?
we are looking forward to your comments :)
best,
-gregor
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we
>> thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that
>> other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :).
>> i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it
>> is disabled by default.
>
>
> BTW, I think we should remove the o.a.l.xml sources and instead
> add a lenya.jar library including this code.
-1 This introduces circular dependencies.
I'm kinda disappointed on how this thing was handled: a vote on the
lenya community does *not* mean that cocoon is endorsing this and commit
access doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want.
Besides, the vote here was on the "concept", but there was no vote on
the details.
Gregor, consider removing everything from the cocoon cvs and start over
with a refactor proposal that doesn't introduce circular dependencies
and then another one on where to host it.
Thanks.
--
Stefano.
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
[...]
>>BTW, I think we should remove the o.a.l.xml sources and
>>instead add a lenya.jar library including this code.
>>
>
> You mean adding a lenya.jar to Cocoon? If so, I'm -1 on this
> as I don't want circular dependencies!
Yes, this sounds reasonable. So we have to remove
the dependencies to the Lenya XML classes, or is
there another solution?
-- Andreas
RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>
> > hi,
> >
> > the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we
> > thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially
> given that
> > other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it
> (hi arje :).
> > i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable)
> block. it
> > is disabled by default.
>
> BTW, I think we should remove the o.a.l.xml sources and
> instead add a lenya.jar library including this code.
>
You mean adding a lenya.jar to Cocoon? If so, I'm -1 on this
as I don't want circular dependencies!
Carsten
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RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>
> > hi,
> >
> > the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we
> > thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially
> given that
> > other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it
> (hi arje :).
> > i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable)
> block. it
> > is disabled by default.
>
> BTW, I think we should remove the o.a.l.xml sources and
> instead add a lenya.jar library including this code.
>
You mean adding a lenya.jar to Cocoon? If so, I'm -1 on this
as I don't want circular dependencies!
Carsten
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> hi,
>
> the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought
> would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms
> built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out
> the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by
> default.
BTW, I think we should remove the o.a.l.xml sources and instead
add a lenya.jar library including this code.
-- Andreas
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Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Guido Casper <gc...@s-und-n.de>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> hi,
>
> the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought
> would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms
> built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out
> the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by
> default.
>
> discussion
> ==========
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=lenya-dev@cocoon.apache.org&by=thread&from=653774
>
>
> documentation
> =============
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/terms.html
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/state-machine.html
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/configuration.html
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/implementation.html
>
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflow
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflowAPI
>
> issues
> ======
> * the block only compiles with jdk 1.4 (it uses assertions)
> you need to set source=1.4 in ant to make it compile..
> * there are currently no samples
>
> to do
> =====
> * remove assertions?
> * build a sample based on usage within lenya
> lenya integration is done via:
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/apidocs/org/apache/lenya/cms/workflow/package-summary.html
>
> for the lenya integration
> * change package from o.a.lenya.workflow to o.a.cocoon.workflow
> * move o.a.lenya.xml classes somewhere else?
>
> we are looking forward to your comments :)
I reasonate with this todo list :-)
But I think a small sample OUTSIDE of a Lenya context would be good.
I would be grateful for a description of a simple use case (so a
generalized workflow abstraction may be discussed) how this workflow
package is intended to be used.
Maybe Carsten's concerns can be eased a little by growing from this
simple use case rather than throwing in a rather complex (though you say
lightweight) package.
Thanks
Guido
RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> >>
> >> why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there
> on the list
> >> which was suggested by Carsten?
> >>
> > By me? :)
>
> sorry, for my bad english, but I meant the list with the
> issues to be addressed, or did somebody else suggest this
> list? Maybe I am confusing things ;-)
>
No, I confused them...someday I will really start learning english,
promised (ten fingers crossed behind my back). Yes, the list
is from me :)
>
>
> >
> > Big +10
>
> it seems to me that most Cocooners would like to move this
> block back to Lenya, at least for the moment. So I would
> suggest that we move it.
You have access to the Cocoon cvs. Do whatever you think is
appropriate.
Thanks
Carsten
RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>>
>> why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on
>> the list which was suggested by Carsten?
>>
> By me? :)
sorry, for my bad english, but I meant the list with the issues to be
addressed, or did somebody else suggest this list? Maybe I am confusing
things ;-)
>
> Big +10
it seems to me that most Cocooners would like to move this block
back to Lenya, at least for the moment. So I would suggest that we move it.
Michi
>
> Carsten
>
>
>
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>
>> I think these issues have to be address before the next release,
>> together with a minimum docs and a sample.
>>
>>
>
> agreed
>
>> I expect another release of Cocoon in two or three weeks!
>>
>> Without the above changes, this block doesn't really fit into Cocoon.
>> In fact nothing Cocoon specific is used, so have you considered
>> to "move" the block to a more common place, e.h. jakarta-commons
>> or something like that?
>>
>>
>
> why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on the list
> which was suggested by Carsten?
>
> Cocoon committers also have access to the Lenya module and it seems to
> me that Cocoon committers
> know by now that this block exists ;-)
>
> As soon as we have addressed the issues we can try moving it back into
> the Cocoon module.
I think it should be in the Lenya module, ideally set up to function as
a block, and stay there until there is good reason to move it elsewhere.
If the code is built well, and works well as a block, then I don't see
that it matters too much to a user of the functionality where it is.
However, from a community perspective, the block's most active
maintainers are here on Lenya, and as you can see, to keep it in Cocoon
would require you guys to come over to Cocoon-dev and play a more active
part in the development process there. Now that might happen, but it's
not really there yet.
So, keep it in Lenya.
Hopefully, as time progresses, Lenya will get a Cocoon style block
system, that just extends Cocoon's build system. And with that, you can
have more and more of your stuff as reusable blocks held within Lenya.
I would say, to really get that going, you need to find a way to get a
build process that is more aligned with the Cocoon one.
Regards, Upayavira
RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
>
> why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on
> the list which was suggested by Carsten?
>
By me? :)
Big +10
Carsten
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RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
>
> why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on
> the list which was suggested by Carsten?
>
By me? :)
Big +10
Carsten
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>>
>>
>I think these issues have to be address before the next release,
>together with a minimum docs and a sample.
>
>
agreed
>I expect another release of Cocoon in two or three weeks!
>
>Without the above changes, this block doesn't really fit into Cocoon.
>In fact nothing Cocoon specific is used, so have you considered
>to "move" the block to a more common place, e.h. jakarta-commons
>or something like that?
>
>
why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on the list
which was suggested by Carsten?
Cocoon committers also have access to the Lenya module and it seems to
me that Cocoon committers
know by now that this block exists ;-)
As soon as we have addressed the issues we can try moving it back into
the Cocoon module.
WDYT?
Michi
>Carsten
>
>
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>
>
>
>
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>>
>>
>I think these issues have to be address before the next release,
>together with a minimum docs and a sample.
>
>
agreed
>I expect another release of Cocoon in two or three weeks!
>
>Without the above changes, this block doesn't really fit into Cocoon.
>In fact nothing Cocoon specific is used, so have you considered
>to "move" the block to a more common place, e.h. jakarta-commons
>or something like that?
>
>
why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on the list
which was suggested by Carsten?
Cocoon committers also have access to the Lenya module and it seems to
me that Cocoon committers
know by now that this block exists ;-)
As soon as we have addressed the issues we can try moving it back into
the Cocoon module.
WDYT?
Michi
>Carsten
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>
> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
> > I see the following minimum todo list from the Cocoon POV:
> > - Use the Avalon Logging instead of log4j directly
> > - Use Avalon components
> > - Move to the source resolver instead of directly reading files
> > - Don't use the Xerces XPath API directly, use Avalon XPath
> component
> > - The same with the parser
> >
> > I don't see any Cocoon specific component in the workflow block.
> > Can you add some Cocoon specific ones and some minimum docs
> on how to
> > use it?
>
> thanks for the list!
>
> i'll add it to a TODO file inside the block.
>
I think these issues have to be address before the next release,
together with a minimum docs and a sample.
I expect another release of Cocoon in two or three weeks!
Without the above changes, this block doesn't really fit into Cocoon.
In fact nothing Cocoon specific is used, so have you considered
to "move" the block to a more common place, e.h. jakarta-commons
or something like that?
Carsten
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RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>
> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
> > I see the following minimum todo list from the Cocoon POV:
> > - Use the Avalon Logging instead of log4j directly
> > - Use Avalon components
> > - Move to the source resolver instead of directly reading files
> > - Don't use the Xerces XPath API directly, use Avalon XPath
> component
> > - The same with the parser
> >
> > I don't see any Cocoon specific component in the workflow block.
> > Can you add some Cocoon specific ones and some minimum docs
> on how to
> > use it?
>
> thanks for the list!
>
> i'll add it to a TODO file inside the block.
>
I think these issues have to be address before the next release,
together with a minimum docs and a sample.
I expect another release of Cocoon in two or three weeks!
Without the above changes, this block doesn't really fit into Cocoon.
In fact nothing Cocoon specific is used, so have you considered
to "move" the block to a more common place, e.h. jakarta-commons
or something like that?
Carsten
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> I see the following minimum todo list from the Cocoon POV:
> - Use the Avalon Logging instead of log4j directly
> - Use Avalon components
> - Move to the source resolver instead of directly reading files
> - Don't use the Xerces XPath API directly, use Avalon XPath component
> - The same with the parser
>
> I don't see any Cocoon specific component in the workflow block.
> Can you add some Cocoon specific ones and some minimum docs on
> how to use it?
thanks for the list!
i'll add it to a TODO file inside the block.
-gregor
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: workflow block commited
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> I see the following minimum todo list from the Cocoon POV:
> - Use the Avalon Logging instead of log4j directly
> - Use Avalon components
> - Move to the source resolver instead of directly reading files
> - Don't use the Xerces XPath API directly, use Avalon XPath component
> - The same with the parser
>
> I don't see any Cocoon specific component in the workflow block.
> Can you add some Cocoon specific ones and some minimum docs on
> how to use it?
thanks for the list!
i'll add it to a TODO file inside the block.
-gregor
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss dijo:
> the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought
> would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms
> built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out
> the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by
> default.
Hi Gregor:
I want to see this block too. It would be a good step for Cocoon.
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
[...]
> Currently there isn't really someone against this "donation" here at
> Cocoon. Although the people that support it are very silent...
> Anyways, as I just said, please ask the next time on the Cocoon list
> before you submit a new block. Thanks.
OK.
> If this block stays at Cocoon
Is there a vote regarding this? Should we start one?
> you have to rename the packages
> from o.a.lenya to o.a.cocoon
OK. What about the license?
-- Andreas
Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
[...]
> Currently there isn't really someone against this "donation" here at
> Cocoon. Although the people that support it are very silent...
> Anyways, as I just said, please ask the next time on the Cocoon list
> before you submit a new block. Thanks.
OK.
> If this block stays at Cocoon
Is there a vote regarding this? Should we start one?
> you have to rename the packages
> from o.a.lenya to o.a.cocoon
OK. What about the license?
-- Andreas
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RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Hartmann
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:41 AM
> To: lenya-dev@cocoon.apache.org
> Cc: dev@cocoon.apache.org
> Subject: Re: workflow block commited
>
Currently there isn't really someone against this "donation" here at
Cocoon. Although the people that support it are very silent...
Anyways, as I just said, please ask the next time on the Cocoon list
before you submit a new block. Thanks.
If this block stays at Cocoon you have to rename the packages
from o.a.lenya to o.a.cocoon
Thanks
Carsten
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we
> > thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially
> given that
> > other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it
> (hi arje :).
> > i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable)
> block. it
> > is disabled by default.
>
> Thanks, Gregor!
>
> I don't want to be impatient, but can we consider the block
> as "accepted" and remove the code from Lenya now? Otherwise,
> we should remove it from Cocoon. I'd like to avoid
> maintaining it on both locations.
>
RE: workflow block commited
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Hartmann
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:41 AM
> To: lenya-dev@cocoon.apache.org
> Cc: dev@cocoon.apache.org
> Subject: Re: workflow block commited
>
Currently there isn't really someone against this "donation" here at
Cocoon. Although the people that support it are very silent...
Anyways, as I just said, please ask the next time on the Cocoon list
before you submit a new block. Thanks.
If this block stays at Cocoon you have to rename the packages
from o.a.lenya to o.a.cocoon
Thanks
Carsten
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we
> > thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially
> given that
> > other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it
> (hi arje :).
> > i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable)
> block. it
> > is disabled by default.
>
> Thanks, Gregor!
>
> I don't want to be impatient, but can we consider the block
> as "accepted" and remove the code from Lenya now? Otherwise,
> we should remove it from Cocoon. I'd like to avoid
> maintaining it on both locations.
>
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Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> hi,
>
> the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought
> would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms
> built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out
> the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by
> default.
Thanks, Gregor!
I don't want to be impatient, but can we consider the block
as "accepted" and remove the code from Lenya now? Otherwise,
we should remove it from Cocoon. I'd like to avoid maintaining
it on both locations.
-- Andreas
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Re: workflow block commited
Posted by Guido Casper <gc...@s-und-n.de>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> hi,
>
> the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought
> would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms
> built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out
> the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by
> default.
>
> discussion
> ==========
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=lenya-dev@cocoon.apache.org&by=thread&from=653774
>
>
> documentation
> =============
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/terms.html
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/state-machine.html
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/configuration.html
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/implementation.html
>
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflow
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflowAPI
>
> issues
> ======
> * the block only compiles with jdk 1.4 (it uses assertions)
> you need to set source=1.4 in ant to make it compile..
> * there are currently no samples
>
> to do
> =====
> * remove assertions?
> * build a sample based on usage within lenya
> lenya integration is done via:
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/apidocs/org/apache/lenya/cms/workflow/package-summary.html
>
> for the lenya integration
> * change package from o.a.lenya.workflow to o.a.cocoon.workflow
> * move o.a.lenya.xml classes somewhere else?
>
> we are looking forward to your comments :)
I reasonate with this todo list :-)
But I think a small sample OUTSIDE of a Lenya context would be good.
I would be grateful for a description of a simple use case (so a
generalized workflow abstraction may be discussed) how this workflow
package is intended to be used.
Maybe Carsten's concerns can be eased a little by growing from this
simple use case rather than throwing in a rather complex (though you say
lightweight) package.
Thanks
Guido
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