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Posted to docs@httpd.apache.org by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> on 2012/03/28 15:33:01 UTC
Retiring translations
I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4 that are more than, say, 2 years out of date, as they assuredly don't reflect the current state of things, and do a disservice to our customers. Leaving them in trunk seems harmless, but having them in a released product is misleading.
I haven't yet done the actual poking around to determine which translations that would be, but I'd suspect .ja, .ko, .es and .de?
Or we could be more selective, and get rid of translations of things (authnz, logging, proxy) that we know for certain has radically changed in the last few years, while leaving things like the index files that may still be worthwhile.
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com :: @rbowen
rbowen@apache.org
Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Lucien Gentis <lu...@medecine.uhp-nancy.fr>.
Le 28 mars 2012 à 16:42, Daniel Gruno a écrit :
> On 28-03-2012 16:09, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:33:01AM -0400, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>>> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4 that are more than, say, 2 years out of date
>>
>> For a metric, Daniel has provided this: http://www.humbedooh.com/outdated/2.4/
>> Translations that are, say, 500,000 revisions out of date might be good candidates to purge?
>>
> +1 to that - Personally I'd probably go even further and cut it off at 250k revisions (the equivalent of 1 year), but 500k would also be a good start.
>
> If we are to retire the documents, I would advise that we give a fair warning to at least users@ that we are retiring this and this document, so anyone interested can fix it up if they have the time for it. Something like: core.xml.ja is now 3 years behind the English version and will be retired in one month unless updated. Maybe send the warnings in a condensed, per-language mail. But that's just my silly idea.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
+1 to that
Lucien Gentis
SIRET
Faculté de Médecine - Nancy
lucien.gentis@medecine.uhp-nancy.fr
03 83 68 30 62
Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
On 28-03-2012 16:09, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:33:01AM -0400, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in
>>> 2.4 that are more than, say, 2 years out of date
> For a metric, Daniel has provided this:
> http://www.humbedooh.com/outdated/2.4/
> Translations that are, say, 500,000 revisions out of date might be
> good candidates to purge?
>
+1 to that - Personally I'd probably go even further and cut it off at
250k revisions (the equivalent of 1 year), but 500k would also be a good
start.
If we are to retire the documents, I would advise that we give a fair
warning to at least users@ that we are retiring this and this document,
so anyone interested can fix it up if they have the time for it.
Something like: /core.xml.ja is now 3 years behind the English version
and will be retired in one month unless updated/. Maybe send the
warnings in a condensed, per-language mail. But that's just my silly idea.
With regards,
Daniel.
Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Lucien GENTIS <lu...@medecine.uhp-nancy.fr>.
So, I looked at these files, . . . and they are all up to date.
Some of them have been recently updated.
For most of them, content is relatively old, but it is also old in
english version.
Le 28/03/2012 16:45, Lucien Gentis a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> I looked at french out of date files in Daniel's list : there are 11
> files, and it's not what I expected
>
> I'll check that this weekend
>
> Lucien
>
> Le 28 mars 2012 à 16:09, Rich Bowen a écrit :
>
>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:33:01AM -0400, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>>> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in
>>>> 2.4 that are more than, say, 2 years out of date
>>
>>
>> For a metric, Daniel has provided this:
>> http://www.humbedooh.com/outdated/2.4/
>>
>> Translations that are, say, 500,000 revisions out of date might be
>> good candidates to purge?
>>
>> --
>> Rich Bowen
>> rbowen@rcbowen.com <ma...@rcbowen.com> :: @rbowen
>> rbowen@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Lucien Gentis
> SIRET
> Faculté de Médecine - Nancy
> lucien.gentis@medecine.uhp-nancy.fr
> <ma...@medecine.uhp-nancy.fr>
> 03 83 68 30 62
>
Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Lucien Gentis <lu...@medecine.uhp-nancy.fr>.
Hi,
I looked at french out of date files in Daniel's list : there are 11 files, and it's not what I expected
I'll check that this weekend
Lucien
Le 28 mars 2012 à 16:09, Rich Bowen a écrit :
>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:33:01AM -0400, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4 that are more than, say, 2 years out of date
>
>
> For a metric, Daniel has provided this: http://www.humbedooh.com/outdated/2.4/
>
> Translations that are, say, 500,000 revisions out of date might be good candidates to purge?
>
> --
> Rich Bowen
> rbowen@rcbowen.com :: @rbowen
> rbowen@apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
Lucien Gentis
SIRET
Faculté de Médecine - Nancy
lucien.gentis@medecine.uhp-nancy.fr
03 83 68 30 62
Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:33:01AM -0400, Rich Bowen wrote:
>> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4 that are more than, say, 2 years out of date
For a metric, Daniel has provided this: http://www.humbedooh.com/outdated/2.4/
Translations that are, say, 500,000 revisions out of date might be good candidates to purge?
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com :: @rbowen
rbowen@apache.org
Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Mads Toftum <ma...@toftum.dk>.
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:33:01AM -0400, Rich Bowen wrote:
> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4 that are more than, say, 2 years out of date, as they assuredly don't reflect the current state of things, and do a disservice to our customers. Leaving them in trunk seems harmless, but having them in a released product is misleading.
>
> I haven't yet done the actual poking around to determine which translations that would be, but I'd suspect .ja, .ko, .es and .de?
>
> Or we could be more selective, and get rid of translations of things (authnz, logging, proxy) that we know for certain has radically changed in the last few years, while leaving things like the index files that may still be worthwhile.
>
+1 on principle although I prefer to keep translated error messages.
vh
Mads Toftum
--
http://soulfood.dk
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Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
On 28-03-2012 16:57, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
> On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:53 AM, André Malo wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday 28 March 2012 15:33:01 Rich Bowen wrote:
>>> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4
>>> that are more than, say, 2 years out of date, as they assuredly don't
>>> reflect the current state of things, and do a disservice to our
>>> customers.
>>> Leaving them in trunk seems harmless, but having them in a released
>>> product
>>> is misleading.
>>>
>>> I haven't yet done the actual poking around to determine which
>>> translations
>>> that would be, but I'd suspect .ja, .ko, .es and .de?
>>>
>>> Or we could be more selective, and get rid of translations of things
>>> (authnz, logging, proxy) that we know for certain has radically
>>> changed in
>>> the last few years, while leaving things like the index files that may
>>> still be worthwhile.
>>
>> My (unbacked) guess is, that the out-of-dateness is mostly missing
>> directives
>> and otherwise tweaks here and there. I'd rather adjust the xslt to
>> include a
>> (translated) reference to the english directive docs as a
>> placeholder. That
>> way we don't lose the rest (which may or maybe not accurate).
>
> As always, your much greater skill with xslt would be greatly
> appreciated here, if you'd be willing to make that adjustment. That
> sounds like a good idea. It does make it harder to know, however,
> which changes were *fixes* and which changes were *updates*, when it
> comes to saying that a particular doc is or is not out of date.
>
>
> --
> Rich Bowen
> rbowen@rcbowen.com <ma...@rcbowen.com> :: @rbowen
> rbowen@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
>
That's exactly what I'm worried about - that the links etc might be
fixed (blame me for that), but the context isn't up to date. An example
could be a description of what is default behavior, and that behavior
could have changed, so simply changing fx a link to Require would pretty
much ruin the documentation if the context referred to the 2.2 version
of Require but linked to the 2.4 methods.
I think a better way would be to advise people that these documents are
going to be retired, and give them a period of, let say a month, to get
them up to date, otherwise they will be retired. Surely, if all the doc
needs is a tweak here and there, it's possible to manage this without
having to resort to complex XSLT transformations that may or may not
mess up the context instead of fixing something.
With regards,
Daniel.
Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Mar 28, 2012, at 10:53 AM, André Malo wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 March 2012 15:33:01 Rich Bowen wrote:
>> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4
>> that are more than, say, 2 years out of date, as they assuredly don't
>> reflect the current state of things, and do a disservice to our customers.
>> Leaving them in trunk seems harmless, but having them in a released product
>> is misleading.
>>
>> I haven't yet done the actual poking around to determine which translations
>> that would be, but I'd suspect .ja, .ko, .es and .de?
>>
>> Or we could be more selective, and get rid of translations of things
>> (authnz, logging, proxy) that we know for certain has radically changed in
>> the last few years, while leaving things like the index files that may
>> still be worthwhile.
>
> My (unbacked) guess is, that the out-of-dateness is mostly missing directives
> and otherwise tweaks here and there. I'd rather adjust the xslt to include a
> (translated) reference to the english directive docs as a placeholder. That
> way we don't lose the rest (which may or maybe not accurate).
As always, your much greater skill with xslt would be greatly appreciated here, if you'd be willing to make that adjustment. That sounds like a good idea. It does make it harder to know, however, which changes were *fixes* and which changes were *updates*, when it comes to saying that a particular doc is or is not out of date.
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com :: @rbowen
rbowen@apache.org
Re: Retiring translations
Posted by André Malo <nd...@perlig.de>.
On Wednesday 28 March 2012 15:33:01 Rich Bowen wrote:
> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4
> that are more than, say, 2 years out of date, as they assuredly don't
> reflect the current state of things, and do a disservice to our customers.
> Leaving them in trunk seems harmless, but having them in a released product
> is misleading.
>
> I haven't yet done the actual poking around to determine which translations
> that would be, but I'd suspect .ja, .ko, .es and .de?
>
> Or we could be more selective, and get rid of translations of things
> (authnz, logging, proxy) that we know for certain has radically changed in
> the last few years, while leaving things like the index files that may
> still be worthwhile.
My (unbacked) guess is, that the out-of-dateness is mostly missing directives
and otherwise tweaks here and there. I'd rather adjust the xslt to include a
(translated) reference to the english directive docs as a placeholder. That
way we don't lose the rest (which may or maybe not accurate).
nd
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Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Apr 4, 2012, at 3:44, "William A. Rowe Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
>
> Along those lines, if we set out a roadmap for retiring "abandoned"
> translations after "X" months (could be one more year), and highlighted
> these on the http://httpd.apache.org/ main website for garbage collection
> unless volunteers step forward, maybe some stale translations might find
> some translators?
That's already happening. So, yeah, that's seems like a good approach. :)
--
Rich Bowen, mobile edition
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Re: Retiring translations
Posted by "William A. Rowe Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
On 3/28/2012 10:29 AM, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> On Mar 28, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4 that are more than, say, 2 years out of date, as they assuredly don't reflect the current state of things, and do a disservice to our customers. Leaving them in trunk seems harmless, but having them in a released product is misleading.
>>
>> I haven't yet done the actual poking around to determine which translations that would be, but I'd suspect .ja, .ko, .es and .de?
>>
>> Or we could be more selective, and get rid of translations of things (authnz, logging, proxy) that we know for certain has radically changed in the last few years, while leaving things like the index files that may still be worthwhile.
>
> I'd prefer that we add CSS with an age-based discoloration of the page
> and associated watermark, but I have no time to find the right CSS.
Along those lines, if we set out a roadmap for retiring "abandoned"
translations after "X" months (could be one more year), and highlighted
these on the http://httpd.apache.org/ main website for garbage collection
unless volunteers step forward, maybe some stale translations might find
some translators?
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Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org>.
----- Original Message -----
> On 28-03-2012 19:44, André Malo wrote:
> > * Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> >> I'd prefer that we add CSS with an age-based discoloration of the
> >> page
> >> and associated watermark, but I have no time to find the right
> >> CSS.
> > I like that.
> >
> > First step is anyhow to integrate an age check into metafile.pl or
> > something. then we can do anything useful with it (if we decide to
> > retire,
> > we can also just don't generate the html anymore, for example).
> >
> > Gimme a few days, it shouldn't be that hard to do the metafile
> > stuff. If no
> > one beats me... ;)
> >
> > nd
> +1
> It seems like a viable solution indeed.
> If we were to adopt this idea, the question would then become: How
> should we "age" and watermark these pages?
> I made two examples of how watermarks could be put in place, at
> http://www.humbedooh.com/outdated/mpm_common.html and
> http://www.humbedooh.com/outdated/mpm_common2.html respectively, but
That looks.. harsh.. ;)
Anyway, I remember last time I looked into translating new directives
for the German documentation that.. translation is *hard*
For me, anyway.
But I must admit I'm with kess and nd here: Even if outdated, they
aren't completely useless. We should find a way to validate context
and defaults - and link missing directives in the English docs.
i
--
Igor Galić
Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
URL: http://brainsware.org/
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Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Daniel Gruno <ru...@cord.dk>.
On 28-03-2012 19:44, André Malo wrote:
> * Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>> I'd prefer that we add CSS with an age-based discoloration of the page
>> and associated watermark, but I have no time to find the right CSS.
> I like that.
>
> First step is anyhow to integrate an age check into metafile.pl or
> something. then we can do anything useful with it (if we decide to retire,
> we can also just don't generate the html anymore, for example).
>
> Gimme a few days, it shouldn't be that hard to do the metafile stuff. If no
> one beats me... ;)
>
> nd
+1
It seems like a viable solution indeed.
If we were to adopt this idea, the question would then become: How
should we "age" and watermark these pages?
I made two examples of how watermarks could be put in place, at
http://www.humbedooh.com/outdated/mpm_common.html and
http://www.humbedooh.com/outdated/mpm_common2.html respectively, but I'm
still not sure what would be the best approach. (I should probably speak
to my brother the design wiz about this and return with something clever).
It would have to be visible/readable, but not as to obstruct the view
entirely.
With regards,
Daniel.
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Re: Retiring translations
Posted by André Malo <nd...@perlig.de>.
* Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> On Mar 28, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> > I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4
> > that are more than, say, 2 years out of date, as they assuredly don't
> > reflect the current state of things, and do a disservice to our
> > customers. Leaving them in trunk seems harmless, but having them in a
> > released product is misleading.
> >
> > I haven't yet done the actual poking around to determine which
> > translations that would be, but I'd suspect .ja, .ko, .es and .de?
> >
> > Or we could be more selective, and get rid of translations of things
> > (authnz, logging, proxy) that we know for certain has radically changed
> > in the last few years, while leaving things like the index files that
> > may still be worthwhile.
>
> I'd prefer that we add CSS with an age-based discoloration of the page
> and associated watermark, but I have no time to find the right CSS.
I like that.
First step is anyhow to integrate an age check into metafile.pl or
something. then we can do anything useful with it (if we decide to retire,
we can also just don't generate the html anymore, for example).
Gimme a few days, it shouldn't be that hard to do the metafile stuff. If no
one beats me... ;)
nd
--
Gefunden auf einer "Webdesigner"-Seite:
> Programmierung in HTML, XML, WML, CGI, FLASH <
# André Malo # http://pub.perlig.de/ #
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Re: Retiring translations
Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Mar 28, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4 that are more than, say, 2 years out of date, as they assuredly don't reflect the current state of things, and do a disservice to our customers. Leaving them in trunk seems harmless, but having them in a released product is misleading.
>
> I haven't yet done the actual poking around to determine which translations that would be, but I'd suspect .ja, .ko, .es and .de?
>
> Or we could be more selective, and get rid of translations of things (authnz, logging, proxy) that we know for certain has radically changed in the last few years, while leaving things like the index files that may still be worthwhile.
I'd prefer that we add CSS with an age-based discoloration of the page
and associated watermark, but I have no time to find the right CSS.
....Roy
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Re: Retiring translations
Posted by Astrid 'Kess' Malo <ke...@kess-net.de>.
On Wednesday 28 March 2012 15:33:01 Rich Bowen wrote:
> I'd like to propose that we retire (ie, svn delete) translations in 2.4
> that are more than, say, 2 years out of date, as they assuredly don't
> reflect the current state of things, and do a disservice to our customers.
> Leaving them in trunk seems harmless, but having them in a released
> product is misleading.
>
> I haven't yet done the actual poking around to determine which translations
> that would be, but I'd suspect .ja, .ko, .es and .de?
>
> Or we could be more selective, and get rid of translations of things
> (authnz, logging, proxy) that we know for certain has radically changed in
> the last few years, while leaving things like the index files that may
> still be worthwhile.
I am against retiring. The docs are already containing an out-ot-date warning.
They are not useless. A lot of things do not change. Deleting them completely
will erase still useful stuff.
Kess