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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Vic Cekvenich <ce...@baseBeans.com> on 2003/11/10 22:05:23 UTC
Call on Stein to resin
http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101159
http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101173
I call on Greg Stein to resign.
.V
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com>.
On Nov 11, 2003, at 1:25 PM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
>
> ASF should publicly applogize, and as a sign of friendship with OSS,
> do something to help jBoss, such as help with J2EE certification, or
> help with code or something.
>
This statement jumped out at me like a tiger.
The suspicious might read the above and be saying to
themselves "Aha... now I understand where Vic's going
with this."
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by "Nathaniel G. Auvil" <na...@yahoo.com>.
+1000000000000000!!!!!!!!
--- Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net> wrote:
> Dude get a life and stop wining, we have better things to do, than read
> this shit.
> One thing is to have an opinion, the other thing is listening when
> people are actually saying you are wining and complaining at the worng
> place. LISTEN!
>
> Mvgr,
> Martin
>
> On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 23:37, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
> > Scott Tavares wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Geezz relax Vic, ..... I can not understand why you are so
> > > passionate about this.
> >
> > Sincerely I think this is bad for open source and for sofware, which is
> > where I do make a living.
> > This is great for comercail vendors, "proving" that open source are...
> > less ethical. What does it mean to be an open source supporter now, to
> > a client? (OK, I should take the point that I need to let go of Don
> > Quihote)
> >
> > I think lawyers have a bad reputation, and I do not want my profesion,
> > sofware engineers to have that reputation.
> >
> >
> > Henri Yandel wrote:
> > "This is where we get into the question of whether the ASF have licenced
> > under an ASF licence, and not the LGPL licence of Elba, a piece of code
> > that is not licensable. If so, then they have legally broken a barrier.
> > Use of code is tricky, what if they have merely copied a design. I've not
> > seen anything in terms of open source test cases to suggest how open
> > open-source designs are."
> >
> >
> > The apprent position of ASF is that.. well it's same design but we have
> > (former jBoss developers changing the implementation over time.
> > In esence, in music, same notes, but diferent performance ( same
> > musicians.) You don't see how a PHB might hesiteate to hire an OSS suporter?
> >
> > Can somone downlaod "Resin"EE (for example :-) source, and refactor and
> > now they "own" it? Or take OrionServer and decompile and refactor, and
> > now they "own" it?
> >
> >
> > Do ... or don't do what you want.
> > I am done with it.
> >
> > .V
> >
> > ps:
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-dev&m=106858581404361&w=2
> > (I can see the water mill now, now... it's a Dragon!!!!)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> --
> Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>
> mvdb.com
>
>
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Dude get a life and stop wining, we have better things to do, than read
this shit.
One thing is to have an opinion, the other thing is listening when
people are actually saying you are wining and complaining at the worng
place. LISTEN!
Mvgr,
Martin
On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 23:37, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
> Scott Tavares wrote:
>
> >
> > Geezz relax Vic, ..... I can not understand why you are so
> > passionate about this.
>
> Sincerely I think this is bad for open source and for sofware, which is
> where I do make a living.
> This is great for comercail vendors, "proving" that open source are...
> less ethical. What does it mean to be an open source supporter now, to
> a client? (OK, I should take the point that I need to let go of Don
> Quihote)
>
> I think lawyers have a bad reputation, and I do not want my profesion,
> sofware engineers to have that reputation.
>
>
> Henri Yandel wrote:
> "This is where we get into the question of whether the ASF have licenced
> under an ASF licence, and not the LGPL licence of Elba, a piece of code
> that is not licensable. If so, then they have legally broken a barrier.
> Use of code is tricky, what if they have merely copied a design. I've not
> seen anything in terms of open source test cases to suggest how open
> open-source designs are."
>
>
> The apprent position of ASF is that.. well it's same design but we have
> (former jBoss developers changing the implementation over time.
> In esence, in music, same notes, but diferent performance ( same
> musicians.) You don't see how a PHB might hesiteate to hire an OSS suporter?
>
> Can somone downlaod "Resin"EE (for example :-) source, and refactor and
> now they "own" it? Or take OrionServer and decompile and refactor, and
> now they "own" it?
>
>
> Do ... or don't do what you want.
> I am done with it.
>
> .V
>
> ps:
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-dev&m=106858581404361&w=2
> (I can see the water mill now, now... it's a Dragon!!!!)
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>
mvdb.com
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Scott Tavares <st...@cox.net>.
Vic Cekvenich wrote:
<snip>
>
> I am done with it.
>
> .V
>
<snip>
Thanks, Vic. I think that's what most of us where wishing for.
-Scott-
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Vic Cekvenich <ce...@baseBeans.com>.
Scott Tavares wrote:
>
> Geezz relax Vic, ..... I can not understand why you are so
> passionate about this.
Sincerely I think this is bad for open source and for sofware, which is
where I do make a living.
This is great for comercail vendors, "proving" that open source are...
less ethical. What does it mean to be an open source supporter now, to
a client? (OK, I should take the point that I need to let go of Don
Quihote)
I think lawyers have a bad reputation, and I do not want my profesion,
sofware engineers to have that reputation.
Henri Yandel wrote:
"This is where we get into the question of whether the ASF have licenced
under an ASF licence, and not the LGPL licence of Elba, a piece of code
that is not licensable. If so, then they have legally broken a barrier.
Use of code is tricky, what if they have merely copied a design. I've not
seen anything in terms of open source test cases to suggest how open
open-source designs are."
The apprent position of ASF is that.. well it's same design but we have
(former jBoss developers changing the implementation over time.
In esence, in music, same notes, but diferent performance ( same
musicians.) You don't see how a PHB might hesiteate to hire an OSS suporter?
Can somone downlaod "Resin"EE (for example :-) source, and refactor and
now they "own" it? Or take OrionServer and decompile and refactor, and
now they "own" it?
Do ... or don't do what you want.
I am done with it.
.V
ps:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-dev&m=106858581404361&w=2
(I can see the water mill now, now... it's a Dragon!!!!)
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Scott Tavares <st...@cox.net>.
Vic Cekvenich wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>
>
> I have been thinking about it, I do not think removing the offeding
> code is appropriate or sufficient.
>
> If proven, I think offending devlopers, new or old should be baned
> from ASF (and other OSS projects) for a few years. The project should
> be parked. Let it live on SF, why shield it (becuase now ASF has to
> use their lawyers/resources)
>
> ASF should publicly applogize, and as a sign of friendship with OSS,
> do something to help jBoss, such as help with J2EE certification, or
> help with code or something.
>
> Did I say that Stein should be removed, as the person out of all the
> OSS projects out there, did most to ruin the high reputation, trough
> negligence or some other reason.
>
> I feel dirty using Apache Struts today becuase of this mess. I already
> remvoed ASF licnese from basicPortal.sf.net when this was originaly
> done and uses a "commons" license or something like that.
>
<snip>
Geezz relax Vic, we are talking about software here. It's no life and
death matter. No one is going to lose their life over this. It's not
like a U.S. gov. official leaking the name of a CIA operative to the
public. Give me a break, it sounds like this is going to hit you
personally in the pocketbook, I can not understand why you are so
passionate about this. Why are you? Hummm.... could the real reason be
that you are trying to pull a M$ and stifle any compentition with
JBoss?? What is your real issue?
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
>
>
> I think that this is the right list, very few people are intrested about
> the incubator. This is about ASF reputation. (It is also about the OSS
> reputation, including BSD, Linux, CodeHus, etc.)
Why not mail the httpd list then? Or the Ant list? They are as involved.
> Due to this Stein mistake OSS could be view as very lowest form. Makes
> me think ... hmm, did Linux developers refactor SCO code? Shame.
>
> I would like to know... does "ASF" claim that if they refactor offending
> code one by one, they feel they are clean?
> or
> If the code was imported and beeing refactored, that that is a probelm.
Ah. So you want to mail the board for an official response?
licensing@apache.org is probably the correct place for such an official
response.
> > The ASF treats the allegations of code copying very seriously, and will
> > take what actions are necessary to ensure that no IP rights are
> > violated, any offending code, if found, is removed, and any other
> > appropriate action is taken.
> >
>
> I have been thinking about it, I do not think removing the offeding code
> is appropriate or sufficient.
This is not the forum for the technicalities of that. No one here is on
this list as a committer to Geronimo. Geronimo is not a part of Jakarta.
> I feel dirty using Apache Struts today becuase of this mess. I already
> remvoed ASF licnese from basicPortal.sf.net when this was originaly done
> and uses a "commons" license or something like that.
It is illegal for you to use the ASF licence for basicportal.sf.net
anyway. Technically I'm not even sure you can legally remove the ASF
licence if you have not followed the proper procedure to do so [ie) your
community of developers have okayed it], however I doubt the ASF would
ever point that out as the mistake was to ASF licence it in the first
place.
> To the people that are siting on the sidelines:
> Do something. It does not have to be public.
So far I've yet to feel that ASF have violated anything ethically. The
Elba concept is a cute yet tricky solution to continuous integration.
The general level of stupidity shown on TSS when they announced Geronimo
suggested that the people complaining couldn't even read the basic plan
that was laid out and the level of idiocy shown over 'why can't JBoss LLC
get a free certification so they can compete with BEA and IBM' from Sun is
also hard to understand.
This is where we get into the question of whether the ASF have licenced
under an ASF licence, and not the LGPL licence of Elba, a piece of code
that is not licensable. If so, then they have legally broken a barrier.
Use of code is tricky, what if they have merely copied a design. I've not
seen anything in terms of open source test cases to suggest how open
open-source designs are.
> This is about sofware, not about lawyers.
You've made it morals vs law. I see no broken morals, and an accusation of
broken law.
> I will try to make this last message on the topic of ethics, its up to
> the people sitting on the hands to see this is as a problem and do
> something.
Quit bitching at the people on the sidelines then. This mail list is the
sidelines.
Hen
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 01:25 PM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
>
>
> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> I think that this is the right list, very few people are intrested
> about the incubator. This is about ASF reputation. (It is also about
> the OSS reputation, including BSD, Linux, CodeHus, etc.)
> Due to this Stein mistake OSS could be view as very lowest form. Makes
> me think ... hmm, did Linux developers refactor SCO code? Shame.
>
> I would like to know... does "ASF" claim that if they refactor
> offending code one by one, they feel they are clean?
> or
> If the code was imported and beeing refactored, that that is a probelm.
>
Vic : I didn't write any of the above. Please try and make clear your
attributions especially when what you are saying is inflammatory and in
the wrong forum.
>> The ASF treats the allegations of code copying very seriously, and
>> will take what actions are necessary to ensure that no IP rights are
>> violated, any offending code, if found, is removed, and any other
>> appropriate action is taken.
>
> I have been thinking about it, I do not think removing the offeding
> code is appropriate or sufficient.
>
> If proven, I think offending devlopers, new or old should be baned
> from ASF (and other OSS projects) for a few years. The project should
> be parked. Let it live on SF, why shield it (becuase now ASF has to
> use their lawyers/resources)
>
> ASF should publicly applogize, and as a sign of friendship with OSS,
> do something to help jBoss, such as help with J2EE certification, or
> help with code or something.
>
> Did I say that Stein should be removed, as the person out of all the
> OSS projects out there, did most to ruin the high reputation, trough
> negligence or some other reason.
>
> I feel dirty using Apache Struts today becuase of this mess. I already
> remvoed ASF licnese from basicPortal.sf.net when this was originaly
> done and uses a "commons" license or something like that.
>
>> However, you must allow the alleged violations to be vetted - just as
>> you wouldn't take the ASF's word that all was fine w/o explanation,
>> you shouldn't take JBoss claim of violation at face value either.
>
>
> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101208
> Above says:
> "The version 1.1 and 1.2 do contain an interface with methods hinting
> to "the 3 maps design" Marc is talking about. "
>
> This is fine proof for me.
>
> I think some sort of joint commission should be set up, of people with
> fine reputation, to report in a certain timeframe as to what happened.
>
> Also a sepreare group should find out what to do about it.
> This is a crissis as big as any, IMO.
>
>
> To the people that are siting on the sidelines:
> Do something. It does not have to be public.
> It is when silent majority sits on the hands, and allows immoral
> things to happen that the society loses.
> This is about sofware, not about lawyers.
>
>
> I will try to make this last message on the topic of ethics, its up to
> the people sitting on the hands to see this is as a problem and do
> something.
>
>
> .V
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@optonline.net
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Vic Cekvenich <ce...@baseBeans.com>.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I think that this is the right list, very few people are intrested about
the incubator. This is about ASF reputation. (It is also about the OSS
reputation, including BSD, Linux, CodeHus, etc.)
Due to this Stein mistake OSS could be view as very lowest form. Makes
me think ... hmm, did Linux developers refactor SCO code? Shame.
I would like to know... does "ASF" claim that if they refactor offending
code one by one, they feel they are clean?
or
If the code was imported and beeing refactored, that that is a probelm.
>
> The ASF treats the allegations of code copying very seriously, and will
> take what actions are necessary to ensure that no IP rights are
> violated, any offending code, if found, is removed, and any other
> appropriate action is taken.
>
I have been thinking about it, I do not think removing the offeding code
is appropriate or sufficient.
If proven, I think offending devlopers, new or old should be baned from
ASF (and other OSS projects) for a few years. The project should be
parked. Let it live on SF, why shield it (becuase now ASF has to use
their lawyers/resources)
ASF should publicly applogize, and as a sign of friendship with OSS, do
something to help jBoss, such as help with J2EE certification, or help
with code or something.
Did I say that Stein should be removed, as the person out of all the OSS
projects out there, did most to ruin the high reputation, trough
negligence or some other reason.
I feel dirty using Apache Struts today becuase of this mess. I already
remvoed ASF licnese from basicPortal.sf.net when this was originaly done
and uses a "commons" license or something like that.
> However, you must allow the alleged violations to be vetted - just as
> you wouldn't take the ASF's word that all was fine w/o explanation, you
> shouldn't take JBoss claim of violation at face value either.
http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101208
Above says:
"The version 1.1 and 1.2 do contain an interface with methods hinting to
"the 3 maps design" Marc is talking about. "
This is fine proof for me.
I think some sort of joint commission should be set up, of people with
fine reputation, to report in a certain timeframe as to what happened.
Also a sepreare group should find out what to do about it.
This is a crissis as big as any, IMO.
To the people that are siting on the sidelines:
Do something. It does not have to be public.
It is when silent majority sits on the hands, and allows immoral things
to happen that the society loses.
This is about sofware, not about lawyers.
I will try to make this last message on the topic of ethics, its up to
the people sitting on the hands to see this is as a problem and do
something.
.V
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Vic Cekvenich <ce...@baseBeans.com>.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> The ASF treats the allegations of code copying very seriously, and will
> take what actions are necessary to ensure that no IP rights are
> violated, any offending code, if found, is removed, and any other
> appropriate action is taken.
GREAT!!! That is 99% of what I wanted to hear. I hope others are happy
with this as well.
>
> However, you must allow the alleged violations to be vetted - just as
> you wouldn't take the ASF's word that all was fine w/o explanation, you
> shouldn't take JBoss claim of violation at face value either.
GOOD! Of course, I like to jump ahead.
Examine
> the code - look for yourself. Do you really think that the Geronimo
> developers would think they could steal JBoss code and get away with
> it?
I do not know those guys, they are all new developers, they are not old
ASF, but new.
Do you think that studly contributors to Geronimo need to steal
> such visionary innovations like :
>
> public boolean getStatus() {
> return status;
> }
I did not understand why they would mention anything like that, that is
not design. It's silly.
But is also silly to say.. and what else you want me to remove?
>
> (or whatever the class field name is...)
>
> Many of the claims by JBoss appear to me to be specious. Deriving a
> class from log4j? The example given by JBoss is a *log4j example* that
> both groups used as a basis for their logger. (Hey, Ceki! Can we have
> trace???) Using 'Interceptor' for the name of a class that's an
> interceptor? Using IDEA-generated getters/setters for POJO fields?
That is silly, but for all I know it's some legalize. Where are you
going to find a jurry to talk about AOP design. Or same design, just a
variation on implementation (also stealing IMO)
> It's hard to imagine that any of this stuff will stand up to rational
> scrutiny.
>
These are old jBoss developers, not old ASF developers.
Now I did not consider, that jBoss would just claim teft via a lawyer,
for no reason.
>>
>> -Stein is the one that railroaded this project on the lists, a
>> chairman. It is easy to trace messages that lead us to this.
>
>
> He didn't "railroad" anything. Many people support it, and much
> activity and work has gone into it.
All of it after the chairman started the ball. All kind of steps were
done out of order, in a rush.
>
>> -Durign his "rule", ASF brand was embarased. What does it mean, ASF
>> developer now?
>
> How?
Ethics are embarasing. It does not appear right. One day, all this code
just shows up at ASF doorstep, out of where? That was quick, quick
coincidence timing.
At the time, I sent an e-mail, "let it live on sf.net for a while".
If not from jBoss, where did the code come from? I know, it was
exaplained... via Magic.
If I use Apache Struts now, does this mean that... maybe this code is
stolen? PHBs!
>
>> -Using ASF funds for this is a shame and a waste.
>
>
> What funds?
>
Lawyers! ? Software engineers should use ethics, high ethics. Why not
just resolve it that way? Why not move geronimo to sf.net, while this
refactoring happens?
I am not going to itemze what Bill Burke said.
Just park the code for a while, it appears right. There is no down side.
In a clean room, even BIOS can be "opened".
But, all of these guys are non ASF people. Or educate me, is there
active comitters on Geronimo that are ASF oldtimers.
The point is, now ASF is in the middle of something that was very
predictable and easily avoidable.
And since we rushed in, ... lets go the same way out, head proposer out
first.
But I am fine with due diligence! As long as people involved are moved
arround a bit, and incubator procedure be followed.
.V
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com>.
On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:00 PM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
> Geir, are you supporting his actions, the ethics in here, denying what
> that developer is saying, ie: that is not his code? I know my code
> when I see it. What part are you supporting, all of it?
>
> -Stein is the one that railroaded this project on the lists, a
> chairman. It is easy to trace messages that lead us to this.
Sorry, this is not the case. I know. I was there.
> -Durign his "rule", ASF brand was embarased. What does it mean, ASF
> developer now?
I disagree about the ASF brand being embarrassed. I also think
that being an ASF developer now means just the same as it always
has.
> -Using ASF funds for this is a shame and a waste.
Why? Because you say so?
You seem to think that somehow the ASF decided (or was brainwashed by
Greg) to *steal* JBoss code. That is not the case, and it
has been mentioned so many times that repeating it again is
enough to make me sick. You also seem to think that the idea
is that "So what if GPL/JBoss code is in there? We'll
just take it." Again, this is so far from the truth that
again I wonder just how you are getting your information...
possibly a dyslexic carrier pigeon.
But once again: if Geronimo has any GPL code in it, whether from
JBoss or not, then it will be expunged. We've always said that.
What we are doing now is looking at "cases" where such claims
are being made and whether or not they have any merit, while
at the same time reviewing what's in CVS.
Got it?
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 05:00 PM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
> I repeat:
> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101159
>
> Geir, are you supporting his actions, the ethics in here, denying what
> that developer is saying, ie: that is not his code? I know my code
> when I see it. What part are you supporting, all of it?
Vic - take a deep breath.
The ASF treats the allegations of code copying very seriously, and will
take what actions are necessary to ensure that no IP rights are
violated, any offending code, if found, is removed, and any other
appropriate action is taken.
However, you must allow the alleged violations to be vetted - just as
you wouldn't take the ASF's word that all was fine w/o explanation, you
shouldn't take JBoss claim of violation at face value either. Examine
the code - look for yourself. Do you really think that the Geronimo
developers would think they could steal JBoss code and get away with
it? Do you think that studly contributors to Geronimo need to steal
such visionary innovations like :
public boolean getStatus() {
return status;
}
(or whatever the class field name is...)
Many of the claims by JBoss appear to me to be specious. Deriving a
class from log4j? The example given by JBoss is a *log4j example* that
both groups used as a basis for their logger. (Hey, Ceki! Can we have
trace???) Using 'Interceptor' for the name of a class that's an
interceptor? Using IDEA-generated getters/setters for POJO fields?
It's hard to imagine that any of this stuff will stand up to rational
scrutiny.
>
> -Stein is the one that railroaded this project on the lists, a
> chairman. It is easy to trace messages that lead us to this.
He didn't "railroad" anything. Many people support it, and much
activity and work has gone into it.
> -Durign his "rule", ASF brand was embarased. What does it mean, ASF
> developer now?
How?
> -Using ASF funds for this is a shame and a waste.
What funds?
>
> I woud like for my profession to be ethical, the people that steal
> should not be in here amongs us, but where other people that steal
> are. What if a consultant you hire steals?
>
> He can resign and get some nice "award"or, be voted out, together with
> other people the think stealing is OK. ASF money/resources is better
> spent putting people in Jail that do this to any other OSS project,
> and making sure they can't ever work in this industry.
>
> Like lets say in China, they get the Coca-Cola recepie, and then they
> start selling Red-Cola... but it tastes the same beacuse it has the
> same recepie? Is this OK? You are not going to say, well lets see what
> they can legaly prove and what the lawyers say and then lets some time
> pass.
>
> Ethics!
>
> No need to go find montivation that got us here, let's just go back to
> before Geroniomo. Time in Las Vegas can be better spent. No need to
> play games.
>
> .V
>
>
>
> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
>> (and I call on Greg Stein to stay put...)
>
> .V
>
>
>
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>
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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Posted by Vic Cekvenich <ce...@baseBeans.com>.
I repeat:
http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101159
Geir, are you supporting his actions, the ethics in here, denying what
that developer is saying, ie: that is not his code? I know my code when
I see it. What part are you supporting, all of it?
-Stein is the one that railroaded this project on the lists, a chairman.
It is easy to trace messages that lead us to this.
-Durign his "rule", ASF brand was embarased. What does it mean, ASF
developer now?
-Using ASF funds for this is a shame and a waste.
I woud like for my profession to be ethical, the people that steal
should not be in here amongs us, but where other people that steal are.
What if a consultant you hire steals?
He can resign and get some nice "award"or, be voted out, together with
other people the think stealing is OK. ASF money/resources is better
spent putting people in Jail that do this to any other OSS project, and
making sure they can't ever work in this industry.
Like lets say in China, they get the Coca-Cola recepie, and then they
start selling Red-Cola... but it tastes the same beacuse it has the same
recepie? Is this OK? You are not going to say, well lets see what they
can legaly prove and what the lawyers say and then lets some time pass.
Ethics!
No need to go find montivation that got us here, let's just go back to
before Geroniomo. Time in Las Vegas can be better spent. No need to
play games.
.V
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> (and I call on Greg Stein to stay put...)
>
.V
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Re: Call on Stein to resin
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 05:05 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> [for amusement value. mine mainly. i don't speak for apache in any way]
>
> I too call on Greg to move to Resin. Not that it'll run Python there
> either, but it'll not run Python faster on port 80.
>
> I call on Vik to increase his monthly flames to be once a week, the
> userbase is demanding more of your words.
>
> I call on JBoss to use an open licence and not the utterly confusing
> and
> unusable LGPL licence written for C.
>
> I call on people to stop claiming that JBoss should get J2EE certified
> for
> free unless the ownership of JBoss is given to a non-profit
> organisation.
>
> Hey! There's a solution. If JBoss LLC can't pay the money for licensing
> like their competitors IBM and BEA, why don't they donate JBoss the
> codebase to the community [Apache could provide space under a far less
> restrictive licence] and JBoss LLC could focus on doing their real job,
> JBoss support.
I think that JBoss was invited, and they declined to collaborate.
>
>
> Hen
>
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
>> (and I call on Greg Stein to stay put...)
>>
>> On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 04:21 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> Oh! "resign". I thought you wanted him to use Resin rather than
>>> Tomcat.
>>>
>>> geir
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 04:05 PM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101159
>>>>
>>>> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101173
>>>>
>>>> I call on Greg Stein to resign.
>>>>
>>>> .V
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
>>> geirm@optonline.net
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
>> geirm@optonline.net
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
>
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>
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geirm@optonline.net
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Re: Call on Stein to resin
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
[for amusement value. mine mainly. i don't speak for apache in any way]
I too call on Greg to move to Resin. Not that it'll run Python there
either, but it'll not run Python faster on port 80.
I call on Vik to increase his monthly flames to be once a week, the
userbase is demanding more of your words.
I call on JBoss to use an open licence and not the utterly confusing and
unusable LGPL licence written for C.
I call on people to stop claiming that JBoss should get J2EE certified for
free unless the ownership of JBoss is given to a non-profit organisation.
Hey! There's a solution. If JBoss LLC can't pay the money for licensing
like their competitors IBM and BEA, why don't they donate JBoss the
codebase to the community [Apache could provide space under a far less
restrictive licence] and JBoss LLC could focus on doing their real job,
JBoss support.
Hen
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> (and I call on Greg Stein to stay put...)
>
> On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 04:21 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> > Oh! "resign". I thought you wanted him to use Resin rather than
> > Tomcat.
> >
> > geir
> >
> > On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 04:05 PM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
> >
> >> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101159
> >>
> >> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101173
> >>
> >> I call on Greg Stein to resign.
> >>
> >> .V
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
> > geirm@optonline.net
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
> geirm@optonline.net
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Call on Stein to resin
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
(and I call on Greg Stein to stay put...)
On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 04:21 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> Oh! "resign". I thought you wanted him to use Resin rather than
> Tomcat.
>
> geir
>
> On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 04:05 PM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
>
>> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101159
>>
>> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101173
>>
>> I call on Greg Stein to resign.
>>
>> .V
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
> geirm@optonline.net
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@optonline.net
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Re: Call on Stein to resin
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
Oh! "resign". I thought you wanted him to use Resin rather than Tomcat.
geir
On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 04:05 PM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101159
>
> http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101173
>
> I call on Greg Stein to resign.
>
> .V
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@optonline.net
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