Java Persistence Layer [was EJB, etc]

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

See

http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html

If you are serious, the first thing you really need to do is get the
source posted someplace. This could just be a page on a free host, with
the Apache License recast as the Michael Lee license. Or, SourceForge if
you think you might want to play with it bit first. 

But, the ASF does not simply take code donations. We host projects and
products with developers that want to actively promote the product as
open source, under the Apache License, and manage the codebase in a
meritocratic way. So, its not so much about the tool itself, but about
them that want to use and improve the tool.

You might also want to take a look at 

http://netmeme.org/simper/

Seems like you have a number of bullets in common.

-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY US
-- Developing Java Web Applications with Struts
-- Tel: +1 585 737-3463
-- Web: http://husted.com/about/services


Michael Lee wrote:
> 
> Along the same lines as a smaller alternative to EJB (entity at least), I
> wrote my own java persistence layer for smaller 2-3 tier type environments.
> What would I need to do to submit this to jakarta? Its pretty damn cool.
> Every developer I showed loved it and immediately saw the void it filled. It
> is INCREDIBLY easy, fast and powerful. It is complete but has some design
> holes I'm not happy with that I hope the open source community could help
> aleviate. Anyone who has written a smaller 2 to n tier app would love this.
> I use it for most of my persistence coding where EJBs or toplink are
> overkill (which is most).
> I have to respond to something.
> I am putting up my qualifications to try to expunge and unneccesary
> cricism/bias that people should have if I were not to disclose this
> information; I was a consultant for BEA professional services for a couple
> of years. Before, and after, BEA I did a lot of RMI/CORBA/JDBC/servlet work.
> Before even that I wrote some of my own cross platform networking, database
> code in C/C++. Believe me, I have done my fair share of N-tier development
> on all kinds of os/hardware environments in all kinds of vertical markets.
> As for J2EE, I did a lot of work in Weblogic (obviously) but have also
> worked with JBoss/Websphere/IPlanet (I LOVE JBOSS!! Not quite as good as
> weblogic but the price is sure better! And to respond early, I could start
> up JBoss in under 12 seconds or so with about 40 EJBs and 200 jsps in a WAR
> file on a Pentium III 750mhz with 512MB ram). I currently work for a company
> that is is folding that makes a web services
> development/deployment/management tool.
> 
> Knowing my qualifications here is my response to Aaron's post whom I have
> summarized with this one line from him;
> "No matter what you try to do with EJB, I can provide a simpler, faster,
> more scalable, and cheaper solution."
> 
> Wow, you should start your own company. Your obviously much smarter than the
> 100 or so developers that make Weblogic or the 50 or so that make JBoss, or
> the ? 100 ? or so that make Websphere, etc. You can make a Java Bean
> container that can handle clustering, fail over, caching, persistence,
> transactional services, security, etc. better than all those people? Wow,
> your the man. If I could create a product by myself better than all those
> people and create a billion dollar company I would. Seems stupid not to?
> Kind of strange you call 'people' stupid and claim you can do better than
> these teams at creating this monumental amount of complex code yet you don't
> do it, even though it could bring you great wealth? Ok then, how about open
> source? I have an open source persistence layer that I wrote to fill a void
> that I saw. It is a smaller persistence layer that performs C.R.U.D.
> operations, has caching, performs rudimentaty find operations, is
> PATHETICALLY easy and reusable, is fast and has no meta-data. It is not
> scalable like a J2EE container, has no built in security other than through
> the JDBC connection, does not have fail-over, does not have transactional
> integrity except that which the developer writes, etc. But if you want a
> quick from the web through a JSP form with little or no business logic, to
> the database, and back it performs like a champ. Much faster than EJB for
> one machine for just this type of task.
> I do not make claims that I could do something better than someone else
> without proving it. I want to release this open source and put my money
> where my mouth is. If I wanted a larger persistence system I would use JBoss
> (as I have no money) or Weblogic if I had some money. If I needed even more
> control and versatility over my persistence layer I might even add something
> like a Toplink. All perform well for what they do. My API/tool is a
> persistence layer between nothing and EJB. EJB is great at what it does.
> Granted, it is used many times where it does not need to be (ie: a simple
> RMI/JDBC design would probably suffice) but it does have a void that it
> fills. I have designed/coded many systems that include CORBA, EJB, RMI,
> JDBC, etc, etc and all have thier place (kind of new to it, but I like
> SOAP!). Believe me, there are places I've used EJBs that, if they didn't
> exist, I would have to write a LOT of code. But I don't want to reinvent the
> wheel, or claim that I could better than 100 others that built a great
> wheel.
> 
> If you don't like some java technology then that's fine. This is not a
> political forum, this is an open source forum. Either submit code, fix code,
> submit a bug, etc. but don't just post to complain about some technology. I
> doubt there are very many stupid people on the jakarta email list and we can
> all choose what we want to use or not use based upon our own experience. We
> should all just put up code we write to share with each other to use or not
> use. That's it. If you don't like it, don't use it. It's that simple. Don't
> waste our time complaining.
> 
> People that post stuff like Java sucks (earlier thread) or Tomcat/J2EE/EJB,
> etc. blows should be banned from this thread. These technologies are exactly
> what this email group is about so obviously we like something about them. We
> just want to share our work and make the technology better.
> 
> >From: "Andrew C. Oliver" Reply-To: "Jakarta General List" To: 'Jakarta
> >General List' Subject: RE: EJB = bad = MS.net [People are stupid!] Date: 23
> >Feb 2002 08:03:48 -0500
> >
> >There are times when a scalable remoteable solution is necessary. Granted
> >these are 1 in 100 projects, (or fewer). Secondly, EJB is purely a bad
> >implementation of this.
> >
> >I recommend we table this discussion, it has drawn on. EJB/J2EE bitch-fest
> >is not something that has a logical conclusion. I suggest participation in
> >the design and development of AltiRMI and AJB (sp on both?) is a more
> >productive discussion. Slam EJB by getting something far better up on
> >Jakarta.
> >
> >-Andy
> >
> >On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 23:22, Aaron Smuts wrote: > With EJB you complicate
> >the deployment, slow down the performance and > save nothing except looking
> >for middleware modules. Gee, I just don't > know where I'd find a
> >connection pool or a logger or a single phase > transaction management
> >system. Good thing I have Weblogic to save me so > much time. I'm glad I
> >only have to wait 5 minutes for the damn thing to > restart. > > I've
> >migrated my current application out of EJB's (weblogic) because > they do
> >nothing but slow down the application and the development life > cycle. I
> >don't like programming in xml and having to shutdown > production to make
> >patches. The appserver specific deployment files > make them unportable and
> >vendor dependent. Weblogic tries its best to > lock you into T3 and its
> >deployment. > > For most modest transactional needs, you can out build and
> >out perform > any appserver using the JDBC. > > You can't even get small
> >result sets with reasonable performance using > EJB. > > No matter what you
> >try to do with EJB, I can provide a simpler, faster, > more scalable, and
> >cheaper solution. > > > > > 1) CTO (or some manager) gets the idea the EJBs
> >are cool (after > reading a > > BEA press release) and decides that his
> >team's next project will be > done > > using EJBs - without any thought as
> >to whether EJBs are the correct > tool > > for the Job. > > > > Amen. > >
> >This is exactly the problem. > > Aaron > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe,
> >e-mail: > For additional commands, e-mail: > --
> >www.superlinksoftware.com www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel
> >format to java
> >http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix
> >java generics!
> >
> >
> >The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
> >-Ambassador Kosh
> >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: For additional commands, e-mail:
> >
> 
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RE: Java Persistence Layer [was EJB, etc]

[Gerhard Froehlich <g-...@gmx.de>]

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ted Husted [mailto:husted@apache.org]
>Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 11:48 PM
>To: Jakarta General List
>Subject: Java Persistence Layer [was EJB, etc]
>
>
>See
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html
>
>If you are serious, the first thing you really need to do is get the
>source posted someplace. This could just be a page on a free host, with
>the Apache License recast as the Michael Lee license. Or, SourceForge if
>you think you might want to play with it bit first. 
>
>But, the ASF does not simply take code donations. We host projects and
>products with developers that want to actively promote the product as
>open source, under the Apache License, and manage the codebase in a
>meritocratic way. So, its not so much about the tool itself, but about
>them that want to use and improve the tool.
>
>You might also want to take a look at 
>
>http://netmeme.org/simper/

See jakarata-commons-sandbox/simplestore
...something similar...

</skip>

Regards
  ~Gerhard
 
---------------------------------
Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.
---------------------------------


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