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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Sergio Fernández <se...@salzburgresearch.at> on 2014/11/21 13:28:53 UTC
dashboarding incubator
Hi,
one of the things I brought from ApacheCon is the idea if providing
dashboard for the podlings. Bitergia presented there their approach [1],
and I think could be useful. See for instance the dashboard they
provided for Apache CloudStack [2].
I already discussed it with Roman, and I think we should try to do
something in this direction. I know the experiment with Back Software
did not satisfy everybody, but I think we should keep trying. I can
commit some time and even resources to provide an early proof of concept.
What do you think?
Cheers,
[1]
http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/event/50a7178fa1d812e50e8c13e9bca8c7c1#.VG8vQnU3eis
[2] http://projects.bitergia.com/apache-cloudstack/browser/
--
Sergio Fernández
Senior Researcher
Knowledge and Media Technologies
Salzburg Research Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
Jakob-Haringer-Straße 5/3 | 5020 Salzburg, Austria
T: +43 662 2288 318 | M: +43 660 2747 925
sergio.fernandez@salzburgresearch.at
http://www.salzburgresearch.at
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Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
Sergio, I think there's no need to ask for permission
in this particular case, unless you'd need to have
INFRA help you obtaining information that is not
publicly available.
But then again, knowing what this information is
would be useful anyway ;-)
So yeah... go ahead! I'd like to help as much
as I can, but I clearly can't drive it.
Thanks,
Roman.
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Sergio Fernández
<se...@salzburgresearch.at> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> one of the things I brought from ApacheCon is the idea if providing
> dashboard for the podlings. Bitergia presented there their approach [1], and
> I think could be useful. See for instance the dashboard they provided for
> Apache CloudStack [2].
>
> I already discussed it with Roman, and I think we should try to do something
> in this direction. I know the experiment with Back Software did not satisfy
> everybody, but I think we should keep trying. I can commit some time and
> even resources to provide an early proof of concept.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Cheers,
>
> [1]
> http://apacheconeu2014.sched.org/event/50a7178fa1d812e50e8c13e9bca8c7c1#.VG8vQnU3eis
> [2] http://projects.bitergia.com/apache-cloudstack/browser/
>
> --
> Sergio Fernández
> Senior Researcher
> Knowledge and Media Technologies
> Salzburg Research Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
> Jakob-Haringer-Straße 5/3 | 5020 Salzburg, Austria
> T: +43 662 2288 318 | M: +43 660 2747 925
> sergio.fernandez@salzburgresearch.at
> http://www.salzburgresearch.at
>
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Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by Sean Busbey <bu...@cloudera.com>.
One down side to the github provided analytics is that projects may be
restricted in how they can make use of those analytics in e.g.
presentations. Github has previously asserted that those analytic outputs
are subject to a license grant from github and requested sign off in the
form of a user agreement.
I don't doubt that many many people make reference to them without
bothering to check on the legal status, nor that many uses are probably
within the bounds of fair use. But the ASF should probably keep the matter
in mind.
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Julian Hyde <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with David.
>
> For example, many projects are now mirrored to github, and github has
> very good analytics:
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-calcite/pulse
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-calcite/graphs/contributors
>
> And, I don't have to log an INFRA JIRA to get them. Which makes both
> me and David happy. :)
>
> Julian
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 6:35 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Sergio Fernández
> > <se...@salzburgresearch.at> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> one of the things I brought from ApacheCon is the idea if providing
> >> dashboard for the podlings. Bitergia presented there their approach
> [1], and
> >> I think could be useful. See for instance the dashboard they provided
> for
> >> Apache CloudStack [2].
> >>
> >> I already discussed it with Roman, and I think we should try to do
> something
> >> in this direction. I know the experiment with Back Software did not
> satisfy
> >> everybody, but I think we should keep trying. I can commit some time and
> >> even resources to provide an early proof of concept.
> >>
> >
> > I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
> > We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
> > instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and maintain
> > such a system, and invariably it falls apart.
> >
> > Additionally, there are free services that begin monitoring projects
> > either on request or when they are noticed, and I am curious what we
> > really hope to gain by doing it ourselves that a site like open hub
> > doesn't provide. In example:
> > https://www.openhub.net/p/npanday
> >
> > I do agree that things like bitergia provide much deeper sense of
> > analytics, but wonderful if it's really necessary for our purposes.
> >
> > --David
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
>
--
Sean
Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by Julian Hyde <ju...@gmail.com>.
I agree with David.
For example, many projects are now mirrored to github, and github has
very good analytics:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-calcite/pulse
https://github.com/apache/incubator-calcite/graphs/contributors
And, I don't have to log an INFRA JIRA to get them. Which makes both
me and David happy. :)
Julian
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 6:35 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Sergio Fernández
> <se...@salzburgresearch.at> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> one of the things I brought from ApacheCon is the idea if providing
>> dashboard for the podlings. Bitergia presented there their approach [1], and
>> I think could be useful. See for instance the dashboard they provided for
>> Apache CloudStack [2].
>>
>> I already discussed it with Roman, and I think we should try to do something
>> in this direction. I know the experiment with Back Software did not satisfy
>> everybody, but I think we should keep trying. I can commit some time and
>> even resources to provide an early proof of concept.
>>
>
> I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
> We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
> instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and maintain
> such a system, and invariably it falls apart.
>
> Additionally, there are free services that begin monitoring projects
> either on request or when they are noticed, and I am curious what we
> really hope to gain by doing it ourselves that a site like open hub
> doesn't provide. In example:
> https://www.openhub.net/p/npanday
>
> I do agree that things like bitergia provide much deeper sense of
> analytics, but wonderful if it's really necessary for our purposes.
>
> --David
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 6:35 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Sergio Fernández
> <se...@salzburgresearch.at> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> one of the things I brought from ApacheCon is the idea if providing
>> dashboard for the podlings. Bitergia presented there their approach [1], and
>> I think could be useful. See for instance the dashboard they provided for
>> Apache CloudStack [2].
>>
>> I already discussed it with Roman, and I think we should try to do something
>> in this direction. I know the experiment with Back Software did not satisfy
>> everybody, but I think we should keep trying. I can commit some time and
>> even resources to provide an early proof of concept.
>>
>
> I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
Wait! Who's talking about 'our own services' (AKA stuff that INFRA
manages)? The conversation is very clearly around Sergio offering
his help managing whatever needs to be managed.
> I do agree that things like bitergia provide much deeper sense of
> analytics, but wonderful if it's really necessary for our purposes.
The only way to find out is to give it a try. Honestly, I'm still a little
bit miffed by our inability to do deeper metrics. I do of course
understand that I'm the first one to blame -- ain't got no cycles
for that. This is precisely why Segio's offer is so useful.
Thanks,
Roman.
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RE: dashboarding incubator
Posted by "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
Note - I should say my comment below is in the context of a not-for-profit software foundation using their services. People in different use cases should look at their specific circumstances - obviously :-D
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 12:27 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: dashboarding incubator
We already evaluated the Bitergia offering - it is expensive and does not provide sufficient benefit for the money (don't get me started on how metrics are not a good evaluator of open source code...)
I fully agree with the comments below.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: jan i [mailto:jani@apache.org]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 12:24 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: dashboarding incubator
On 21 November 2014 20:44, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 3:35 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > ...I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
> > We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
> > instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and
> > maintain such a system, and invariably it falls apart....
>
> I agree, OTOH if someone wants to help third parties get the data that
> they need to implement such services externally that might be fine.
>
Having our own service will only marginally provide us with something better, and will cost (in endeffect) contractor resources, so I agree with david.
rgds
jan i.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by jonathon <to...@gmail.com>.
On 23/11/14 20:41, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) wrote:
> Metrics do not provide this information, and indeed can detract from the community health issues.
In looking at http://projects.bitergia.com/apache-cloudstack/browser/,
I'm wondering if any meaningful metrics can be provided.
Take for example, Mailing List metrics.
1,690 thread initiators
1,467 first replies
1,973 participants;
Does that mean almost 10% of the threads did not receive a response?
Or, as is more likely, those are part of existing threads, but due to
defective email clients, appear to be new threads?
>My point is that while some metrics can provide indicators of something that needs looking into we need to ensure that the metrics do not become more important than community health.
+1
Going back to that Mailing List metric, is it useful to know that
roughly 1.4 people participate in each thread, when those metrics give
no indication of whether or not the responses help the person initiating
the thread?
>The danger I see is that providing official metrics
> a) provides a level of "authority" to the metrics which most newcomers
are ill-equipped to evaluate an
> b) could lead to shortcut rules like "the metrics must show there is X
level of diversity/activity/volume/foobar"
>replacing proper evaluation of the project and its community.
Using "user support" for Apache OpenOffice as an example.
My sense is that the general user population uses
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ rather than
users@openoffice.apache.org.
I'm aware of a non-Apache project where the only reliable support is
IRC. The web-forum, mailing list, and other channels don't provide any
indication of that factoid, though.
A metric that just looks at mailing list activity falls short for
projects where most interaction occurs on either web forums, or IRC
channels.
Metrics are useful indicators, but only when:
* What they measure is clearly indicated;
* What they don't measure is clearly indicated;
* What their blind points are, is clearly indicated;
* They measure what they purport to measure;
Even with all those criteria, metrics will be misquoted, and otherwise
abused, to push a point.
jonathon
* English - detected
* English
* English
<javascript:void(0);>
RE: dashboarding incubator
Posted by "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
Thanks for your roundup here (very useful). You are making it clear that this is something you might want to spend time on - I'll try and answer your final question ("is there already any argument to say that inevitably the answer of the proof of concept will be negative?"). The short answer is yes and no. Below I spend most of the time explaining the "no", if you want the short version skip to the "yes" in the last para.
Speaking entirely personally, I have always argued against using numbers to judge the health of a project (which is the only natural outcome from collecting such numbers). For an ASF project it's not absolute activity that is important. It's the strength and behavior of the community and its governance that is important. Metrics do not provide this information, and indeed can detract from the community health issues.
For example, many years ago we had a podling that didn't graduate for a long time because we had evolved into having a hard metric on what "diversity" meant. It did graduate in the end and today is a thriving and productive TLP. The significant expansion of the community didn't happen until after graduation, a time when newcomers feel it is safe to invest in the project. We've since scrapped the diversity metric and reverted to the original intent of requiring a project to behave in a way that is welcoming to diverse interests (and thus capable of satisfying a diversity metric given time). My point is that while some metrics can provide indicators of something that needs looking into we need to ensure that the metrics do not become more important than community health.
Personally, I do use metrics when evaluating a project, but I use ones that are readily available already through a number of other services. These are not "official" or "sanctioned" and therefore say nothing, from an ASF perspective, about the health of a project. The danger I see is that providing official metrics a) provides a level of "authority" to the metrics which most newcomers are ill-equipped to evaluate and b) could lead to shortcut rules like "the metrics must show there is X level of diversity/activity/volume/foobar" replacing proper evaluation of the project and its community.
In summary, I'm not against metrics per se, I'm cautious about them becoming more important than they should be. I can imagine the tools being somewhat useful *internally* where we can ensure that expectations are properly managed. I am very cautious about using such metrics externally where they can be quoted out of context and/or misrepresented.
All that being said, sponsors are increasingly asking us for metrics. For this reason I'm vary interested in cross-foundational statistics rather than statistics about specific projects. That is if you were to roll up the data from across the projects into valuable data about the foundation as a whole I can see real value with minimal risk. Sally, over on press@ is currently looking at the kind of data that would be useful to report.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: Sergio Fernández [mailto:sergio.fernandez@salzburgresearch.at]
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2014 11:37 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: dashboarding incubator
After awaiting for feedback about my proposal, I understand there are three different aspects that should be discussed:
* Cost: As Ross pointed, the potential prize is important to evaluate a solution. Although I'd love to use the professional services of the company, the toolkit is open/free software and be freely used, which moves more attention to the next point.
* Infrastructure requirements: Specially in the case we decide to provide all by ourselves, such service would have some infrastructure requirements that need to be studied, as David correctly pointed.
* Technical proposition: In the end the first two aspect should not be critical if the proposition brings some value, to the project-level, Incubator or ASF.
I really see strong arguments against the proposal regarding the first two aspects. The third is not that easy, since I do not see how such metrics should be used for evaluating projects, rather than just bringing some indicators.
Before taking the discussion to the next level, where costs and resources need to be evaluated, I opened this discussion proposing my time and personal resources to provide a simple proof of concept. Then we should have more arguments (how much resources are actually required, how useful are the indicators the dashboard provides, etc...) to move the discussion to the next level.
But of course I'd like to have the good pleasure before investing time.
So I'd like to ask the following question: is there already any argument to say that inevitably the answer of the proof of concept will be negative?
Cheers,
On 21/11/14 21:27, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) wrote:
> We already evaluated the Bitergia offering - it is expensive and does
> not provide sufficient benefit for the money (don't get me started on
> how metrics are not a good evaluator of open source code...)
>
> I fully agree with the comments below.
>
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jan i [mailto:jani@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 12:24 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: dashboarding incubator
>
> On 21 November 2014 20:44, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bd...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 3:35 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>> ...I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
>>> We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
>>> instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and
>>> maintain such a system, and invariably it falls apart....
>>
>> I agree, OTOH if someone wants to help third parties get the data
>> that they need to implement such services externally that might be fine.
>>
> Having our own service will only marginally provide us with something better, and will cost (in endeffect) contractor resources, so I agree with david.
>
> rgds
> jan i.
>
>
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
--
Sergio Fernández
Senior Researcher
Knowledge and Media Technologies
Salzburg Research Forschungsgesellschaft mbH Jakob-Haringer-Straße 5/3 | 5020 Salzburg, Austria
T: +43 662 2288 318 | M: +43 660 2747 925 sergio.fernandez@salzburgresearch.at
http://www.salzburgresearch.at
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Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 23 November 2014 at 20:37, Sergio Fernández <
sergio.fernandez@salzburgresearch.at> wrote:
> After awaiting for feedback about my proposal, I understand there are
> three different aspects that should be discussed:
>
> * Cost: As Ross pointed, the potential prize is important to evaluate a
> solution. Although I'd love to use the professional services of the
> company, the toolkit is open/free software and be freely used, which moves
> more attention to the next point.
>
> * Infrastructure requirements: Specially in the case we decide to provide
> all by ourselves, such service would have some infrastructure requirements
> that need to be studied, as David correctly pointed.
>
> * Technical proposition: In the end the first two aspect should not be
> critical if the proposition brings some value, to the project-level,
> Incubator or ASF.
>
> I really see strong arguments against the proposal regarding the first two
> aspects. The third is not that easy, since I do not see how such metrics
> should be used for evaluating projects, rather than just bringing some
> indicators.
>
> Before taking the discussion to the next level, where costs and resources
> need to be evaluated, I opened this discussion proposing my time and
> personal resources to provide a simple proof of concept. Then we should
> have more arguments (how much resources are actually required, how useful
> are the indicators the dashboard provides, etc...) to move the discussion
> to the next level.
>
> But of course I'd like to have the good pleasure before investing time. So
> I'd like to ask the following question: is there already any argument to
> say that inevitably the answer of the proof of concept will be negative?
>
I personally think a proof of concept would be beneficial, and might help
put some of the problems raised in perspective.
Infra are (with full right) concerned about new services which they
potentially need to support if used by many and abandoned by the original
supporter. I believe a proof of concept might end up showing this could be
very simple.
I dont have spare cycles to help with this, but I am available anytime for
questions/test etc.
rgds
jan I.
> Cheers,
>
>
> On 21/11/14 21:27, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) wrote:
>
>> We already evaluated the Bitergia offering - it is expensive and does not
>> provide sufficient benefit for the money (don't get me started on how
>> metrics are not a good evaluator of open source code...)
>>
>> I fully agree with the comments below.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jan i [mailto:jani@apache.org]
>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 12:24 PM
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: dashboarding incubator
>>
>> On 21 November 2014 20:44, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 3:35 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
>>>> We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
>>>> instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and
>>>> maintain such a system, and invariably it falls apart....
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree, OTOH if someone wants to help third parties get the data that
>>> they need to implement such services externally that might be fine.
>>>
>>> Having our own service will only marginally provide us with something
>> better, and will cost (in endeffect) contractor resources, so I agree with
>> david.
>>
>> rgds
>> jan i.
>>
>>
>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
> --
> Sergio Fernández
> Senior Researcher
> Knowledge and Media Technologies
> Salzburg Research Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
> Jakob-Haringer-Straße 5/3 | 5020 Salzburg, Austria
> T: +43 662 2288 318 | M: +43 660 2747 925
> sergio.fernandez@salzburgresearch.at
> http://www.salzburgresearch.at
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by Sergio Fernández <se...@salzburgresearch.at>.
After awaiting for feedback about my proposal, I understand there are
three different aspects that should be discussed:
* Cost: As Ross pointed, the potential prize is important to evaluate a
solution. Although I'd love to use the professional services of the
company, the toolkit is open/free software and be freely used, which
moves more attention to the next point.
* Infrastructure requirements: Specially in the case we decide to
provide all by ourselves, such service would have some infrastructure
requirements that need to be studied, as David correctly pointed.
* Technical proposition: In the end the first two aspect should not be
critical if the proposition brings some value, to the project-level,
Incubator or ASF.
I really see strong arguments against the proposal regarding the first
two aspects. The third is not that easy, since I do not see how such
metrics should be used for evaluating projects, rather than just
bringing some indicators.
Before taking the discussion to the next level, where costs and
resources need to be evaluated, I opened this discussion proposing my
time and personal resources to provide a simple proof of concept. Then
we should have more arguments (how much resources are actually required,
how useful are the indicators the dashboard provides, etc...) to move
the discussion to the next level.
But of course I'd like to have the good pleasure before investing time.
So I'd like to ask the following question: is there already any argument
to say that inevitably the answer of the proof of concept will be negative?
Cheers,
On 21/11/14 21:27, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) wrote:
> We already evaluated the Bitergia offering - it is expensive and does not provide sufficient benefit for the money (don't get me started on how metrics are not a good evaluator of open source code...)
>
> I fully agree with the comments below.
>
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jan i [mailto:jani@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 12:24 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: dashboarding incubator
>
> On 21 November 2014 20:44, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 3:35 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>> ...I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
>>> We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
>>> instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and
>>> maintain such a system, and invariably it falls apart....
>>
>> I agree, OTOH if someone wants to help third parties get the data that
>> they need to implement such services externally that might be fine.
>>
> Having our own service will only marginally provide us with something better, and will cost (in endeffect) contractor resources, so I agree with david.
>
> rgds
> jan i.
>
>
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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--
Sergio Fernández
Senior Researcher
Knowledge and Media Technologies
Salzburg Research Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
Jakob-Haringer-Straße 5/3 | 5020 Salzburg, Austria
T: +43 662 2288 318 | M: +43 660 2747 925
sergio.fernandez@salzburgresearch.at
http://www.salzburgresearch.at
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RE: dashboarding incubator
Posted by "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
We already evaluated the Bitergia offering - it is expensive and does not provide sufficient benefit for the money (don't get me started on how metrics are not a good evaluator of open source code...)
I fully agree with the comments below.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: jan i [mailto:jani@apache.org]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 12:24 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: dashboarding incubator
On 21 November 2014 20:44, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 3:35 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > ...I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
> > We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
> > instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and
> > maintain such a system, and invariably it falls apart....
>
> I agree, OTOH if someone wants to help third parties get the data that
> they need to implement such services externally that might be fine.
>
Having our own service will only marginally provide us with something better, and will cost (in endeffect) contractor resources, so I agree with david.
rgds
jan i.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 21 November 2014 20:44, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 3:35 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > ...I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
> > We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
> > instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and maintain
> > such a system, and invariably it falls apart....
>
> I agree, OTOH if someone wants to help third parties get the data that
> they need to implement such services externally that might be fine.
>
Having our own service will only marginally provide us with something
better, and will cost (in endeffect) contractor resources, so I agree with
david.
rgds
jan i.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
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Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 3:35 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> ...I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
> We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
> instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and maintain
> such a system, and invariably it falls apart....
I agree, OTOH if someone wants to help third parties get the data that
they need to implement such services externally that might be fine.
-Bertrand
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Re: dashboarding incubator
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Sergio Fernández
<se...@salzburgresearch.at> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> one of the things I brought from ApacheCon is the idea if providing
> dashboard for the podlings. Bitergia presented there their approach [1], and
> I think could be useful. See for instance the dashboard they provided for
> Apache CloudStack [2].
>
> I already discussed it with Roman, and I think we should try to do something
> in this direction. I know the experiment with Back Software did not satisfy
> everybody, but I think we should keep trying. I can commit some time and
> even resources to provide an early proof of concept.
>
I am generally against us standing up our own service that does this.
We've had a couple of these systems over the years. (pulse.a,o for
instance). It takes a non-trivial amount of work to setup and maintain
such a system, and invariably it falls apart.
Additionally, there are free services that begin monitoring projects
either on request or when they are noticed, and I am curious what we
really hope to gain by doing it ourselves that a site like open hub
doesn't provide. In example:
https://www.openhub.net/p/npanday
I do agree that things like bitergia provide much deeper sense of
analytics, but wonderful if it's really necessary for our purposes.
--David
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