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Posted to dev@httpd.apache.org by Justin Erenkrantz <je...@ebuilt.com> on 2001/09/24 22:27:24 UTC
Apache 2.0 release plan was Re: [SUGGESTION] mod_auth_xxxx API
On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:49:08PM -0500, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Yup, that's the ticket. For 2.1 development. If we keep this up, there will
> never be a 2.0 release this year :(
You know, we should come up with a *RELEASE PLAN* like the Tomcat
people do.
I've said it before (it was largely ignored last time):
"How do we know when we're there if we don't know where we're going?"
-- justin
Re: Apache 2.0 release plan was Re: [SUGGESTION] mod_auth_xxxx API
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <je...@ebuilt.com>.
On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 01:54:26PM -0700, Ryan Bloom wrote:
> > To me, a useful release plan is one that:
> > * tells developers working on httpd-2.0 what the important things to
> > work on for 2.0-GA are,
> > * tells 3rd-party module developers what sort of interface they can
> > expect, and
> > * tells end users what feature set and performance characteristics
> > they can expect.
> >
> > The "tag when you believe it is appropriate" model is an effective process
> > for software builds, but not necessarily for product releases.
+1.
> We specifically stated that we were not going to do those three things. The point
> to this releaes model, is to allow the code to keep moving forward.
>
> You all may notice that I raikl against this release process quite often, and ask
> people not to make sweeping changes, because we need to release. However,
> this is the model that was decided upon a while ago.
Sweeping changes, eh? I wouldn't know anyone attempting to do that...
I completely agree with Brian here. A release plan and a tag strategy
are very different.
We can tag at any time to produce a build, but we don't have any
guidelines which say, "These need to be addressed or met by 2.0-GA."
We should have performance characteristics (i.e. comparable to 1.3?),
features (SSL), a degree of robustness (survives httpd-test and
daedalus load for 48 hours?), etc. Otherwise, a tag is just a
shot-in-the-dark.
You and OtherBill keep saying that 2.0 is "really soon now" and that
we can't commit or do certain things because of that. IMHO, that's
what Roy was wailing about. I have no clue what you mean by 2.0.
-- justin
Re: Apache 2.0 release plan was Re: [SUGGESTION] mod_auth_xxxx API
Posted by Ryan Bloom <rb...@covalent.net>.
On Monday 24 September 2001 01:45 pm, Brian Pane wrote:
> Ryan Bloom wrote:
> >On Monday 24 September 2001 01:27 pm, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> >>On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:49:08PM -0500, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> >>>Yup, that's the ticket. For 2.1 development. If we keep this up, there
> >>>will never be a 2.0 release this year :(
> >>
> >>You know, we should come up with a *RELEASE PLAN* like the Tomcat
> >>people do.
> >>
> >>I've said it before (it was largely ignored last time):
> >>
> >>"How do we know when we're there if we don't know where we're going?"
> >
> >We have a release plan. An engineer tags whenever they believe it is
> >appropriate. That build is tested, and we give it a thumbs up/thumbs down
> >for alpha/beta/gold. The only reason a tag hasn't been laid recently, is
> > that we have known about showstoppers.
>
> To me, a useful release plan is one that:
> * tells developers working on httpd-2.0 what the important things to
> work on for 2.0-GA are,
> * tells 3rd-party module developers what sort of interface they can
> expect, and
> * tells end users what feature set and performance characteristics
> they can expect.
>
> The "tag when you believe it is appropriate" model is an effective process
> for software builds, but not necessarily for product releases.
We specifically stated that we were not going to do those three things. The point
to this releaes model, is to allow the code to keep moving forward.
You all may notice that I raikl against this release process quite often, and ask
people not to make sweeping changes, because we need to release. However,
this is the model that was decided upon a while ago.
Ryan
______________________________________________________________
Ryan Bloom rbb@apache.org
Covalent Technologies rbb@covalent.net
--------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Apache 2.0 release plan
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <je...@ebuilt.com>.
On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:14:56PM -0700, Greg Stein wrote:
> For example, we're still finding interesting things to do with the brigades.
> We're still refining their functionality. We've got architecture issues with
> input filtering. And that is just one piece of the code.
Yeah, this leads me to believe that Apache 2.0-GA is a bit farther
off than some think. But, oh well.
"It's ready when it's ready."
-- justin
Re: Apache 2.0 release plan
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 01:45:32PM -0700, Brian Pane wrote:
>...
> To me, a useful release plan is one that:
> * tells developers working on httpd-2.0 what the important things to
> work on for 2.0-GA are,
And the developers will continue to work on what they *want* to work on.
There is no hierarchy, and no task assignments in (most) open source
projects.
If somebody is interested in getting a release done, then they will identify
the showstoppers (which are ideally already listed in STATUS) and work on
those.
The hope is that non-release-interested developers are not getting in the
way of release developers. I believe that is the case. Nobody is really
committing drastic revamps to the core without some review (e.g. Justin's
input filtering fixes). Changes to modules can (almost) never impact the
release stability.
> * tells 3rd-party module developers what sort of interface they can
> expect, and
Those can change up until release, and even after that. Hopefully, we keep
that at a minimum, but Apache is about writing the best code possible. And
that can mean that interfaces may have to change.
> * tells end users what feature set and performance characteristics
> they can expect.
We aren't organized enough to do that. That requires a management process,
which is more or less forbidden :-)
> The "tag when you believe it is appropriate" model is an effective process
> for software builds, but not necessarily for product releases.
Depends upon your point of view. Given the circumstances, I believe it to be
very effective. It is simply that Apache has had so much change over the
past couple years, that we still are not at a stable spot.
For example, we're still finding interesting things to do with the brigades.
We're still refining their functionality. We've got architecture issues with
input filtering. And that is just one piece of the code.
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
Re: Apache 2.0 release plan was Re: [SUGGESTION] mod_auth_xxxx API
Posted by Brian Pane <bp...@pacbell.net>.
Ryan Bloom wrote:
>On Monday 24 September 2001 01:27 pm, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>
>>On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:49:08PM -0500, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>>Yup, that's the ticket. For 2.1 development. If we keep this up, there
>>>will never be a 2.0 release this year :(
>>>
>>You know, we should come up with a *RELEASE PLAN* like the Tomcat
>>people do.
>>
>>I've said it before (it was largely ignored last time):
>>
>>"How do we know when we're there if we don't know where we're going?"
>>
>
>We have a release plan. An engineer tags whenever they believe it is
>appropriate. That build is tested, and we give it a thumbs up/thumbs down
>for alpha/beta/gold. The only reason a tag hasn't been laid recently, is that
>we have known about showstoppers.
>
To me, a useful release plan is one that:
* tells developers working on httpd-2.0 what the important things to
work on for 2.0-GA are,
* tells 3rd-party module developers what sort of interface they can
expect, and
* tells end users what feature set and performance characteristics
they can expect.
The "tag when you believe it is appropriate" model is an effective process
for software builds, but not necessarily for product releases.
--Brian
Re: Apache 2.0 release plan was Re: [SUGGESTION] mod_auth_xxxx API
Posted by Ryan Bloom <rb...@covalent.net>.
On Monday 24 September 2001 01:27 pm, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:49:08PM -0500, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> > Yup, that's the ticket. For 2.1 development. If we keep this up, there
> > will never be a 2.0 release this year :(
>
> You know, we should come up with a *RELEASE PLAN* like the Tomcat
> people do.
>
> I've said it before (it was largely ignored last time):
>
> "How do we know when we're there if we don't know where we're going?"
We have a release plan. An engineer tags whenever they believe it is
appropriate. That build is tested, and we give it a thumbs up/thumbs down
for alpha/beta/gold. The only reason a tag hasn't been laid recently, is that
we have known about showstoppers.
Ryan
______________________________________________________________
Ryan Bloom rbb@apache.org
Covalent Technologies rbb@covalent.net
--------------------------------------------------------------