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Posted to users@httpd.apache.org by Robert Lilly <rc...@lvcm.com> on 2002/10/14 00:00:49 UTC
[users@httpd] Foundation knowledge
Hi everyone!
I'm trying to give myself a good foundation of knowledge to work from when
using Apache. I'm currently studying the Apache docs to learn everything I
can about it (both 1.3 and 2.0). I've already noticed that there are many
cases where there's more than one way to do something. I tend not to like
that. I like to know the "preferred" way. (That's the reason I'm teaching
myself Python rather than Perl) My next step, when I feel I have a fair
grasp of the Apache documentation, is to study the HTTP information at
www.w3.org so that I may learn what's supposed to be going on under the
hood, so to speak, so I can make sure I'm using Apache in conformance with
that.
Does anyone have any recommendations on where I should turn my attention to
next? Or perhaps even a different plan than the one I've outlined?
Any and all suggestions are welcomed and will be appreciated!
TIA,
Robert Lilly
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RE: [users@httpd] straying into browser terretory (was Re: [users@httpd] Foundationknowledge)
Posted by Robert Lilly <rc...@lvcm.com>.
Thanks all for your helpful comments. This gave me plenty to think about!
Robert
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[users@httpd] straying into browser terretory (was Re: [users@httpd] Foundation
knowledge)
Posted by Ian Stuart <Ia...@ed.ac.uk>.
On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 02:23, J. Greenlees wrote:
> hmm, then reading the current protocol standards would help, and reading
> what standards are supported by which browsers and how they are working
> would help. IE works differently than Netscape, or Opera.
... and none of them fully support the standards fully.
Admitably this is bacaus the standards keep evolving, and the browsers
want to maintain backward compatibility.
As a simple example of this, the current standard for HTML requres that
all block elements have opening AND CLOSING tags, yet a vast number of
pages use a '<P>' tag to seperate paragraphs. this is wrong for two
reasons:
1) it's '<p>' (lowecase), not '<P>' (uppercase)
2) there's no closing tag
Then there are the problems of elements where they're not allowed, by
the rules (anything other than an <li> after a <ul> or <ol> tag, for
example), etc...
--
--==++
Ian Stuart: Edinburgh University Data Library.
Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
-- Mary.
Personal web site: http://lucas.ucs.ed.ac.uk/
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Re: [users@httpd] Foundation knowledge
Posted by "J. Greenlees" <ja...@shaw.ca>.
hmm, then reading the current protocol standards would help, and reading
what standards are supported by which browsers and how they are working
would help. IE works differently than Netscape, or Opera.
Robert Lilly wrote:
> First of all, thank you to Jacob and Jaqui for your insightful comments.
>
> In a recent message
> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=apache-httpd-users&m=103467482827366&w=2)
> Obi presents just the kind of situation I'd like to be prepared for. Knowing
> the RFC and how the HTTP protocol behaves helped Obi to the right direction
> to begin looking for a solution to his task.
>
> It's this kind of base knowledge I'm seeking so that I can then know which
> direction to proceed in when confronted with something I haven't encountered
> before. Before I reach into my toolbox to select the right tool, I need to
> know what the job is I'm trying to accomplish, and some idea of how to
> proceed. To continue with the toolbox metaphor, I don't want to use a
> hammer, when a saw is required. Or a screwdriver when an awl is called for.
> But unless I have and understanding of both the jobs, and the tools, I won't
> be able to make those kinds of decisions.
>
> Am I making any sense at all?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
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RE: [users@httpd] Foundation knowledge
Posted by Robert Lilly <rc...@lvcm.com>.
First of all, thank you to Jacob and Jaqui for your insightful comments.
In a recent message
(http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=apache-httpd-users&m=103467482827366&w=2)
Obi presents just the kind of situation I'd like to be prepared for. Knowing
the RFC and how the HTTP protocol behaves helped Obi to the right direction
to begin looking for a solution to his task.
It's this kind of base knowledge I'm seeking so that I can then know which
direction to proceed in when confronted with something I haven't encountered
before. Before I reach into my toolbox to select the right tool, I need to
know what the job is I'm trying to accomplish, and some idea of how to
proceed. To continue with the toolbox metaphor, I don't want to use a
hammer, when a saw is required. Or a screwdriver when an awl is called for.
But unless I have and understanding of both the jobs, and the tools, I won't
be able to make those kinds of decisions.
Am I making any sense at all?
Thanks,
Robert
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Re: [users@httpd] Foundation knowledge
Posted by "J. Greenlees" <ja...@shaw.ca>.
Robert Lilly wrote:
~snip~
> I want this not only for my own
> web site, but eventually I want to add Apache/PHP/MySQL Python knowledge
> & skills to my consulting services. Currently I do custom Excel
> applications using VBA, among many other things. I want to be able to offer
> web site design and implementation to that bag of tricks, especially
> database
> connected sites.
Robert,
for the db uses, you would probably be better served looking at the db
engines used, cold fusion, Mysql, ect.
all apache is doing "under the hood" is reading headers sent by browsers
and finding the document in it's web directory that matches and
returning it.
when you add db / scripting then it has to use additional modules to
read that information to answer the request appropriately.
reading the source code, once you know the language, is actually the
only way to really get an understanding of how it is doing this.
php is based on the c / c++ languages
perlscript is based on the perl language and javascript is based on
java. VBscript is based on visual basic.
if you learn the programming languages, then you will be able to follow
the scripting languages.
the added benefit of knowing the programming languages is then you can
code apps for apache to serve with the suexec module, not just scripted
pages.
there are variants of all languages, depending on operating system, but
most have a set of library files in common with all variants, so an app
made on one platform using them can be compiled on another with little
or no problem.
the old comment of rtfm is, in your situation, the closest you will get
to understanding the inner funtionality you want. but it won't go as far
as my impression says you want to go.
apache is a communication portal for sending data, it uses specific
protocols, which you can find on google, to read and transmit the data.
all apache itself can transmit in a humanly readable form is html. all
the scripting languages need to be parsed by either client browser or
apache to present html.
Jaqui
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RE: [users@httpd] Foundation knowledge
Posted by Robert Lilly <rc...@lvcm.com>.
Jacob Coby [mailto:jcoby@listingbook.com] wrote:
> The preferred way is highly subjective. What may work great for your
> situation, may not work for someone else. This is why there are
> options. A few of the apache modules are deprecated, and have noted
> which modules to use instead.
I think I understand what you're saying. Perhaps I should express
myself a little clearer. I want to be able to have a sufficient grasp
of Apache, what it's doing, and why, to be able know how best to configure
it in whatever situation I may encounter. I want this not only for my own
web site, but eventually I want to add Apache/PHP/MySQL Python knowledge
& skills to my consulting services. Currently I do custom Excel
applications using VBA, among many other things. I want to be able to offer
web site design and implementation to that bag of tricks, especially
database
connected sites.
> You should learn perl. If not, at least the regexp stuff from
> perl. And C.
> And C++. And PHP. And asm. And lisp. And lua. And BASIC. And.. :-)
Ah, if only time permitted me to learn all of them. Sigh!
> > My next step, when I feel I have a fair
> > grasp of the Apache documentation, is to study the HTTP information at
> > www.w3.org so that I may learn what's supposed to be going on under the
> > hood, so to speak, so I can make sure I'm using Apache in
> conformance with
> > that.
>
> Why? The only way you can (easily) mess up apache's conformance is by
> throwing in custom headers. It is up to apache to worry about rfc
> conformance, and AFAIK, there is no confing option that will let
> you change
> that.
I don't intend to change Apache's under-the-hood operations, I just want to
understand what it's doing, and why. I've always found that that kind of
knowledge enables me to make optimum use of an application.
> > Does anyone have any recommendations on where I should turn my attention
> to
> > next? Or perhaps even a different plan than the one I've outlined?
>
> What are you wanting to do? You haven't listed any goals of this
> research.
>
Please see my comments above.
> -Jacob
> http://www.listingbook.com
Thank you for your feedback!
Robert
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Re: [users@httpd] Foundation knowledge
Posted by Jacob Coby <jc...@listingbook.com>.
> I'm trying to give myself a good foundation of knowledge to work from when
> using Apache. I'm currently studying the Apache docs to learn everything I
> can about it (both 1.3 and 2.0). I've already noticed that there are many
> cases where there's more than one way to do something. I tend not to like
> that. I like to know the "preferred" way.
The preferred way is highly subjective. What may work great for your
situation, may not work for someone else. This is why there are options. A
few of the apache modules are depricated, and have noted which modules to
use instead.
> (That's the reason I'm teaching
> myself Python rather than Perl)
You should learn perl. If not, at least the regexp stuff from perl. And C.
And C++. And PHP. And asm. And lisp. And lua. And BASIC. And.. :-)
> My next step, when I feel I have a fair
> grasp of the Apache documentation, is to study the HTTP information at
> www.w3.org so that I may learn what's supposed to be going on under the
> hood, so to speak, so I can make sure I'm using Apache in conformance with
> that.
Why? The only way you can (easily) mess up apache's conformance is by
throwing in custom headers. It is up to apache to worry about rfc
conformance, and AFAIK, there is no confing option that will let you change
that.
> Does anyone have any recommendations on where I should turn my attention
to
> next? Or perhaps even a different plan than the one I've outlined?
What are you wanting to do? You haven't listed any goals of this research.
-Jacob
http://www.listingbook.com
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