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Posted to user@lenya.apache.org by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es> on 2004/06/24 10:08:54 UTC
[Docu] Lenya User guide - Brainstorming
Hello users, hello devs,
I just started to rewrite the lenya documentation because I feel that
the existing one has some major drawbacks. I started a wiki-page [1]
where I added the conceptual structure of the future lenya user guide. I
see that as the start of a brainstorming session.
So *please* contribute your ideas to this page and dicuss this issue
here on the list.
I hope we will finish the first draft of the documentation with the help
of *users* and *devs* /very/ soon. I will use some presentation and
experience of the workshop we had in Madrid for the documentation. I
hope to introduce as well a *[call] concept* to faster the refactoring
process.
*[call] concept*
If somebody wants new documentation (s)he can post a description of the
topic, problem, howto, etc. with a [call] mail in the mailing list.
Maybe somebody had the same problem and can help to create a wiki
article. The [call] - concept should be seen as documentation on demand.
...but to make some things very clear:
- a [call]ed paper (articles) are a *wish* and *NOT* a demand.
- If somebody (dev/user) will find time to help that is fine, but the
responsibility to create the document is by the caller!!!
- a [call] should result in a wiki page but can (or even should) be
created in ml.
WDYT?
King regards
thorsten
[1] http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaDocumentation
--
Thorsten Scherler
Departamento de Desarrollo de Proyectos
Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información S.A.U.
Avda. de la Arboleda s/n
41940 - Tomares, (Sevilla)
Tlfn: (+34) 955 062 627
e-mail: thorsten.scherler.ext@juntadeandalucia.es
Este correo electrónico y, en su caso, cualquier fichero anexo al mismo,
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Sociedad de la Información S.A.U. vía e-mail o fax la recepción del presente
mensaje. Toda declaración de voluntad contenida deberá ser tenida por no
producida. Gracias.
____________________________________________________________________________
___________________
The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and
solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). You are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this communication
is prohibited without the prior written consent of "Sociedad Andaluza para
el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información, S.A.U.". If you are not the
formal receiver of this message please destroy it without making any digital
or physical copy and inform "Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la
Sociedad de la Información S.A.U." , by e-mail or fax, of the reception of
the present message. Any whatsoever involuntary declaration contained
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Re: [Docu] Lenya User guide - Brainstorming
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Scherler, Thorsten wrote:
[...]
>
>> - Website Content Editors on the the other end
>>
>
> Yeah, what do they want to know?
>
> *topics*
> How can I add an image, a link, change the size of the writing, etc. in
> my pub?
I would not recommend to put much effort into this kind
of documentation. Due to the framework character of Lenya,
the GUI for end users (authors etc.) will differ significantly
between various implementations/publications. A "user guide" won't
be much but a guide for the default publication. The editor
(BXE, Kupu) documentation should be provided by the editor
developers.
[...]
> If we can create menu points for doing that on the fly (like *import new
> doctype* and *create new doctype* and *upload xsl* and etc.) that would
> be awesome
IMO this is very far away. Creating doctypes depends on the setup
of your publication. We can think about it again when (if) the concept
of doctype packages is evolving.
BTW, would that be something for the roadmap to 1.4?
-- Andreas
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Re: [Docu] Lenya User guide - Brainstorming
Posted by "Scherler, Thorsten" <th...@apache.org>.
Torsten Schlabach wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I think that structure has most issues in it that I would have liked to have
> available when I started mounting Lenya. So there is nothing wrong with
> that.
>
:)
Thanks!
> The only thing I was thinking about for some time and which is also an
> experience from real live projects:
>
> - System Admin / XML Guru / Java people on one end and
that would be the dev guide IMO.
*topics*
Setting up, configure, change and administrate lenya
> - Website Content Editors on the the other end
>
Yeah, what do they want to know?
*topics*
How can I add an image, a link, change the size of the writing, etc. in
my pub?
> are quite different people that have very different questions.
>
agree
> In most real live projects I would assume there are three roles
>
...at the end I used the SoC four major concern areas to structure the
docu and the roles of lenya.
> - The admin who sets up the Lenya environment
> - The senior website designer how will design the site and wants to setup
> CSS, XSLTS and doctypes to frame what the third role can do
IMO ATM that are still the same people. e.g. to create a doctype you
have to "touch the code". By that I mean one have to manualy add changes
to the different xmaps, xconf, etc. IMO that can be defined as setting
up the lenya environment.
If we can create menu points for doing that on the fly (like *import new
doctype* and *create new doctype* and *upload xsl* and etc.) that would
be awesome ...but ATM that are devs. Anyway I added it to the wiki. Can
you review it? ...by writing that down in the wiki I used the SoC four
major concern areas to structure the docu and the roles of lenya.
> - The content editors that write text, put in pictures and do the daily
> maintainance of the site
>
jupp, we have to switch to the perspective of an actual editor of a pub.
What is the typical editor?
I was at a meeting in Madrid and saw a presentation of one user of an
actual pub. It is what you said. The content editors writes text, put in
pictures and do the daily maintainance of the site.
> I think a lot of spreading the word of Lenya will be to attract each of
> these groups by distinct, tailored communication. I site editor does not
> want to think about how and why he has an account to log on to the system,
> wether through LDAP or JAAS or whathaveyou.
>
Jupp! Right!
Thanks that was nice input, hope you can have a look at
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaDocumentation.
King regards
thorsten
> Torsten
>
>
>
>>Hello users, hello devs,
>>
>>I just started to rewrite the lenya documentation because I feel that
>>the existing one has some major drawbacks. I started a wiki-page [1]
>>where I added the conceptual structure of the future lenya user guide. I
>>see that as the start of a brainstorming session.
>>
>>So *please* contribute your ideas to this page and dicuss this issue
>>here on the list.
>>
>>I hope we will finish the first draft of the documentation with the help
>>of *users* and *devs* /very/ soon. I will use some presentation and
>>experience of the workshop we had in Madrid for the documentation. I
>>hope to introduce as well a *[call] concept* to faster the refactoring
>>process.
>>
>>*[call] concept*
>>If somebody wants new documentation (s)he can post a description of the
>>topic, problem, howto, etc. with a [call] mail in the mailing list.
>>Maybe somebody had the same problem and can help to create a wiki
>>article. The [call] - concept should be seen as documentation on demand.
>>
>>...but to make some things very clear:
>>- a [call]ed paper (articles) are a *wish* and *NOT* a demand.
>>- If somebody (dev/user) will find time to help that is fine, but the
>>responsibility to create the document is by the caller!!!
>>- a [call] should result in a wiki page but can (or even should) be
>>created in ml.
>>
>>WDYT?
>>
>>King regards
>>thorsten
>>
>>[1] http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaDocumentation
>>
--
<thorsten>
<name>Thorsten Scherler</name>
<country>Spain</country>
<@m...@mail>
<@c...@cocoon-WIKI>
<http>http://www.target-x.de</http>
<acronymfinder>http://www.acronymfinder.com</acronymfinder>
<motto>
"My task which I am trying to achieve is,
by the power of the written word,
[...] to make you see."
*Joseph Conrad (1857-1924)*
</motto>
</thorsten>
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Re: [Docu] Lenya User guide - Brainstorming
Posted by Tom Baik <to...@yahoo.com>.
Greetings,
I think a "How-To" section or a "Tutorial" section would be very
valuable to the community. It should contain very specific,
step-by-step details of how different people accomplished different
results when deploying, designing, or managing websites using Lenya.
Regards,
Tom
--- Torsten Schlabach <TS...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I think that structure has most issues in it that I would have liked
> to have
> available when I started mounting Lenya. So there is nothing wrong
> with
> that.
>
> The only thing I was thinking about for some time and which is also
> an
> experience from real live projects:
>
> - System Admin / XML Guru / Java people on one end and
> - Website Content Editors on the the other end
>
> are quite different people that have very different questions.
>
> In most real live projects I would assume there are three roles
>
> - The admin who sets up the Lenya environment
> - The senior website designer how will design the site and wants to
> setup
> CSS, XSLTS and doctypes to frame what the third role can do
> - The content editors that write text, put in pictures and do the
> daily
> maintainance of the site
>
> I think a lot of spreading the word of Lenya will be to attract each
> of
> these groups by distinct, tailored communication. I site editor does
> not
> want to think about how and why he has an account to log on to the
> system,
> wether through LDAP or JAAS or whathaveyou.
>
> Torsten
>
>
> > Hello users, hello devs,
> >
> > I just started to rewrite the lenya documentation because I feel
> that
> > the existing one has some major drawbacks. I started a wiki-page
> [1]
> > where I added the conceptual structure of the future lenya user
> guide. I
> > see that as the start of a brainstorming session.
> >
> > So *please* contribute your ideas to this page and dicuss this
> issue
> > here on the list.
> >
> > I hope we will finish the first draft of the documentation with the
> help
> > of *users* and *devs* /very/ soon. I will use some presentation and
>
> > experience of the workshop we had in Madrid for the documentation.
> I
> > hope to introduce as well a *[call] concept* to faster the
> refactoring
> > process.
> >
> > *[call] concept*
> > If somebody wants new documentation (s)he can post a description of
> the
> > topic, problem, howto, etc. with a [call] mail in the mailing list.
>
> > Maybe somebody had the same problem and can help to create a wiki
> > article. The [call] - concept should be seen as documentation on
> demand.
> >
> > ...but to make some things very clear:
> > - a [call]ed paper (articles) are a *wish* and *NOT* a demand.
> > - If somebody (dev/user) will find time to help that is fine, but
> the
> > responsibility to create the document is by the caller!!!
> > - a [call] should result in a wiki page but can (or even should) be
>
> > created in ml.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > King regards
> > thorsten
> >
> > [1] http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaDocumentation
> >
> > --
> > Thorsten Scherler
> >
> > Departamento de Desarrollo de Proyectos
> > Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la
> Informaci�n
> > S.A.U.
> > Avda. de la Arboleda s/n
> > 41940 - Tomares, (Sevilla)
> > Tlfn: (+34) 955 062 627
> > e-mail: thorsten.scherler.ext@juntadeandalucia.es
> >
> > Este correo electr�nico y, en su caso, cualquier fichero anexo al
> mismo,
> > contiene informaci�n de car�cter confidencial exclusivamente
> dirigida a su
> > destinatario o destinatarios. Queda prohibida su divulgaci�n, copia
> o
> > distribuci�n a terceros sin la previa autorizaci�n escrita de
> "Sociedad
> > Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Informaci�n,
> S.A.U.". Si
> > no
> > es Ud. el destinatario del mensaje le ruego lo destruya sin hacer
> copia
> > digital o f�sica, comunicando a Sociedad Andaluza para el
> Desarrollo de la
> > Sociedad de la Informaci�n S.A.U. v�a e-mail o fax la recepci�n del
> > presente
> > mensaje. Toda declaraci�n de voluntad contenida deber� ser tenida
> por no
> > producida. Gracias.
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> > ___________________
> >
> > The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is
> confidential and
> > solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). You are
> hereby
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this
> > communication
> > is prohibited without the prior written consent of "Sociedad
> Andaluza para
> > el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Informaci�n, S.A.U.". If you are
> not
> > the
> > formal receiver of this message please destroy it without making
> any
> > digital
> > or physical copy and inform "Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo
> de la
> > Sociedad de la Informaci�n S.A.U." , by e-mail or fax, of the
> reception of
> > the present message. Any whatsoever involuntary declaration
> contained
> > herewith must be taken as having no legal effect. Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-user-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-user-help@cocoon.apache.org
> >
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-user-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
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>
>
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Re: [Docu] Lenya User guide - Brainstorming
Posted by Torsten Schlabach <TS...@gmx.net>.
Hello,
I think that structure has most issues in it that I would have liked to have
available when I started mounting Lenya. So there is nothing wrong with
that.
The only thing I was thinking about for some time and which is also an
experience from real live projects:
- System Admin / XML Guru / Java people on one end and
- Website Content Editors on the the other end
are quite different people that have very different questions.
In most real live projects I would assume there are three roles
- The admin who sets up the Lenya environment
- The senior website designer how will design the site and wants to setup
CSS, XSLTS and doctypes to frame what the third role can do
- The content editors that write text, put in pictures and do the daily
maintainance of the site
I think a lot of spreading the word of Lenya will be to attract each of
these groups by distinct, tailored communication. I site editor does not
want to think about how and why he has an account to log on to the system,
wether through LDAP or JAAS or whathaveyou.
Torsten
> Hello users, hello devs,
>
> I just started to rewrite the lenya documentation because I feel that
> the existing one has some major drawbacks. I started a wiki-page [1]
> where I added the conceptual structure of the future lenya user guide. I
> see that as the start of a brainstorming session.
>
> So *please* contribute your ideas to this page and dicuss this issue
> here on the list.
>
> I hope we will finish the first draft of the documentation with the help
> of *users* and *devs* /very/ soon. I will use some presentation and
> experience of the workshop we had in Madrid for the documentation. I
> hope to introduce as well a *[call] concept* to faster the refactoring
> process.
>
> *[call] concept*
> If somebody wants new documentation (s)he can post a description of the
> topic, problem, howto, etc. with a [call] mail in the mailing list.
> Maybe somebody had the same problem and can help to create a wiki
> article. The [call] - concept should be seen as documentation on demand.
>
> ...but to make some things very clear:
> - a [call]ed paper (articles) are a *wish* and *NOT* a demand.
> - If somebody (dev/user) will find time to help that is fine, but the
> responsibility to create the document is by the caller!!!
> - a [call] should result in a wiki page but can (or even should) be
> created in ml.
>
> WDYT?
>
> King regards
> thorsten
>
> [1] http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaDocumentation
>
> --
> Thorsten Scherler
>
> Departamento de Desarrollo de Proyectos
> Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información
> S.A.U.
> Avda. de la Arboleda s/n
> 41940 - Tomares, (Sevilla)
> Tlfn: (+34) 955 062 627
> e-mail: thorsten.scherler.ext@juntadeandalucia.es
>
> Este correo electrónico y, en su caso, cualquier fichero anexo al mismo,
> contiene información de carácter confidencial exclusivamente dirigida a su
> destinatario o destinatarios. Queda prohibida su divulgación, copia o
> distribución a terceros sin la previa autorización escrita de "Sociedad
> Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información, S.A.U.". Si
> no
> es Ud. el destinatario del mensaje le ruego lo destruya sin hacer copia
> digital o física, comunicando a Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la
> Sociedad de la Información S.A.U. vía e-mail o fax la recepción del
> presente
> mensaje. Toda declaración de voluntad contenida deberá ser tenida por no
> producida. Gracias.
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> ___________________
>
> The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and
> solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). You are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this
> communication
> is prohibited without the prior written consent of "Sociedad Andaluza para
> el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información, S.A.U.". If you are not
> the
> formal receiver of this message please destroy it without making any
> digital
> or physical copy and inform "Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la
> Sociedad de la Información S.A.U." , by e-mail or fax, of the reception of
> the present message. Any whatsoever involuntary declaration contained
> herewith must be taken as having no legal effect. Thank you.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-user-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-user-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
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Re: [Docu] Lenya User guide - Brainstorming
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 10:08, Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Hello users, hello devs,
>
> I just started to rewrite the lenya documentation because I feel that
> the existing one has some major drawbacks. I started a wiki-page [1]
> where I added the conceptual structure of the future lenya user guide. I
> see that as the start of a brainstorming session.
>
> So *please* contribute your ideas to this page and dicuss this issue
> here on the list.
I will add my comments soon. Sorry for being busy. But Thorsten, keep on
moving :)
--
Rolf Kulemann
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