You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@groovy.apache.org by "Milles, Eric (TR Technology)" <er...@thomsonreuters.com> on 2021/09/27 15:42:48 UTC
Groovy 4 and the new integrated query module
Is there still time to reconsider the name of the new integrated query module (groovy-ginq) before Groovy 4 is released and the choice is locked in? I ask for a couple of reasons:
1) the "g" is redundant; groovy-ginq implies "groovy groovy integrated query". When gcontracts was moved under apache, it was changed to "groovy-contracts", not "groovy-gcontracts".
2) ginq is very close to an ethnic slur in american english.
I do realize that it was originally groovy-linq. I asked at that time if that was a registered trademark of Microsoft. I did not hear whether or not it was, just suddenly it was groovy-ginq without any further discussion.
So I propose groovy-ginq be renamed to one of the following:
groovy-query
groovy-linq
groovy-inq
Or my proposal to incorporate it into the groovy-sql module could be reconsidered.
This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient and contains information that may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail and any attachments. Certain required legal entity disclosures can be accessed on our website: https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en/resources/disclosures.html
Re: Groovy 4 and the new integrated query module
Posted by Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>.
Just as a followup on this, in the release notes I have mentioned
gquery as an alternative shorthand for groovy integrated query. The
module name didn't change but if folks have a problem with ginq, they
can start using gquery when referring to the technology instead. If
that alternative name (which some folks weren't keen on but others
liked) sticks, we can make it more prominent in the doco.
Cheers, Paul.
On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 9:55 AM Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:
>
> Yes, naming is hard.
>
> We didn't go with linq with concerns about trademarks. We didn't go with groovy-sql. That might be kind of confusing. We currently don't support SQL - at least not in the way most people would expect in terms of the data you can query on.
>
> From memory, there was an informal discussion about naming on slack at the time but it looks like it never made it back to a mailing list - possibly just a PR/Jira issue at the time.
>
> Some other possibilities (though none spring out as clearly better than ginq to me just yet):
>
> groovy-quid (query integrated data - missing the reference to language - maybe confusable with JSR 354)
> groovy-link (how you pronounce linq - but might be confusing with jlink)
> groovy-liq (pronounced lick - just dropping the n from linq - doesn't have as good an association with existing recognition of LINQ)
> groovy-liquid (for fluent style queries but maybe too cute)
> groovy-liquidity (as above)
> groovy-gq (again repeating the g but matches the introducing "keyword")
> groovy-qing (queries integrated with groovy - would folks always mispell since it reverses the order of the more common linq)
>
> I don't mind MG's suggestion of groovy-q (it has a James Bond as well as Star Trek potential association and also Suzi Q[uatro] - but it's short and I'm unsure whether folks seeing it for the first time would make any useful association).
>
> Otherwise I agree with OC that whatever is chosen can be misconstrued by someone somewhere.
>
> Cheers, Paul
>
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 1:42 AM Milles, Eric (TR Technology) <er...@thomsonreuters.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is there still time to reconsider the name of the new integrated query module (groovy-ginq) before Groovy 4 is released and the choice is locked in? I ask for a couple of reasons:
>>
>> 1) the "g" is redundant; groovy-ginq implies "groovy groovy integrated query". When gcontracts was moved under apache, it was changed to "groovy-contracts", not "groovy-gcontracts".
>>
>> 2) ginq is very close to an ethnic slur in american english.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do realize that it was originally groovy-linq. I asked at that time if that was a registered trademark of Microsoft. I did not hear whether or not it was, just suddenly it was groovy-ginq without any further discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I propose groovy-ginq be renamed to one of the following:
>>
>> groovy-query
>>
>> groovy-linq
>>
>> groovy-inq
>>
>>
>>
>> Or my proposal to incorporate it into the groovy-sql module could be reconsidered.
>>
>>
>>
>> This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient and contains information that may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail and any attachments. Certain required legal entity disclosures can be accessed on our website: https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en/resources/disclosures.html
Re: Groovy 4 and the new integrated query module
Posted by Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>.
Yes, naming is hard.
We didn't go with linq with concerns about trademarks. We didn't go with
groovy-sql. That might be kind of confusing. We currently don't support SQL
- at least not in the way most people would expect in terms of the data you
can query on.
From memory, there was an informal discussion about naming on slack at the
time but it looks like it never made it back to a mailing list - possibly
just a PR/Jira issue at the time.
Some other possibilities (though none spring out as clearly better than
ginq to me just yet):
groovy-quid (query integrated data - missing the reference to language -
maybe confusable with JSR 354)
groovy-link (how you pronounce linq - but might be confusing with jlink)
groovy-liq (pronounced lick - just dropping the n from linq - doesn't have
as good an association with existing recognition of LINQ)
groovy-liquid (for fluent style queries but maybe too cute)
groovy-liquidity (as above)
groovy-gq (again repeating the g but matches the introducing "keyword")
groovy-qing (queries integrated with groovy - would folks always mispell
since it reverses the order of the more common linq)
I don't mind MG's suggestion of groovy-q (it has a James Bond as well as
Star Trek potential association and also Suzi Q[uatro] - but it's short and
I'm unsure whether folks seeing it for the first time would make any useful
association).
Otherwise I agree with OC that whatever is chosen can be misconstrued by
someone somewhere.
Cheers, Paul
On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 1:42 AM Milles, Eric (TR Technology) <
eric.milles@thomsonreuters.com> wrote:
> Is there still time to reconsider the name of the new integrated query
> module (groovy-ginq) before Groovy 4 is released and the choice is locked
> in? I ask for a couple of reasons:
>
> 1) the "g" is redundant; groovy-ginq implies "groovy
> groovy integrated query". When gcontracts was moved under apache, it was
> changed to "groovy-contracts", not "groovy-gcontracts".
>
> 2) ginq is very close to an ethnic slur in american
> english.
>
>
>
> I do realize that it was originally groovy-linq. I asked at that time if
> that was a registered trademark of Microsoft. I did not hear whether or
> not it was, just suddenly it was groovy-ginq without any further discussion.
>
>
>
> So I propose groovy-ginq be renamed to one of the following:
>
> groovy-query
>
> groovy-linq
>
> groovy-inq
>
>
>
> Or my proposal to incorporate it into the groovy-sql module could be
> reconsidered.
>
>
> This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient and contains
> information that may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not an
> intended recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete
> this e-mail and any attachments. Certain required legal entity disclosures
> can be accessed on our website:
> https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en/resources/disclosures.html
>
Re: Groovy 4 and the new integrated query module
Posted by OCsite <oc...@ocs.cz>.
MG,
> On 27 Sep 2021, at 20:36, MG <mg...@arscreat.com> wrote:
> I assume with slur you probably mean "chink" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink>)?
I wondered too, myself :) Searching, aside of the above, I've also found that the perfectly nice and drinkable word “gin” might — my dictionary says — be interpreted also as an Aussie slur for an Abo woman (never ever heard of that). Which, I guess, only makes your precise observation
> ... in the end there will always be a small number of people who will construct something to be offended by out of anything
the more apt.
If anyone cares, I would completely ignore these absurd allusions.
All the best,
OC
Re: Groovy 4 and the new integrated query module
Posted by MG <mg...@arscreat.com>.
My input would be:
1. I like the name "GINQ" = "Groovy Integrated Query", compared to
"LINQ" = "Language Integrated Query", since LINQ has become
synonymous with C#/.NET, and GINQ gives it fitting Groovy spin G-)
2. My association with Ginq would be a Ginkgo tree
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginkgo_biloba) :-)
1. I assume with slur you probably mean "chink"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink) ? I would not associate
"ginq" with that, but in the end there will always be a small
number of people who will construct something to be offended by
out of anything, and a small number of racist idiots, who will
either just use "chink" directly, or find some "not-yet-banned"
or "not-bannable-since-common-term"* way to insult someone. I
think one should not let one's decisions be influenced by either
of them :-)
3. Having said that, there is already a PHP library called "Ginq":
https://github.com/akanehara/ginq
4. The question whether LINQ is indeed protected as a term by MS is
imho also a valid one...
5. The case of "gcontracts" vs "ginq" is not as clear cut as it seems,
since
1. "inq" on its own does imho not really work
2. "ginq" forms a memorable word of its own for me, whereas
"gcontracts" just prepends a "g" in front of the word "contracts"
6. "groovy-query" would work, but to me it is quite generic/bland, and
I would associate it with SQL queries only (.NET LINQ at least is
not specific to SQL, and in fact you need to do a lot of
transforming to get back to SQL from a LINQ AST expression, even
though the input source might have looked a lot like SQL ;-) ).
7. "groovy-q" might be a possible alternative(if we allow one-letter
module names), since "Q" is of course a well known, powerful figure
from the Star Trek universe
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_(Star_Trek)), hinting at the
cleverness & power of the language :-)
Cheers,
mg
*See again "USA" = "United States of America", but also "Unser seliger
Adolf" ("our holy Adolf"), used by German/Austrian Nazis to refer to
their Führer.
On 27/09/2021 17:42, Milles, Eric (TR Technology) wrote:
>
> Is there still time to reconsider the name of the new integrated query
> module (groovy-ginq) before Groovy 4 is released and the choice is
> locked in? I ask for a couple of reasons:
>
> 1) the "g" is redundant; groovy-ginq implies "groovy
> groovy integrated query". When gcontracts was moved under apache, it
> was changed to "groovy-contracts", not "groovy-gcontracts".
>
> 2) ginq is very close to an ethnic slur in american
> english.
>
> I do realize that it was originally groovy-linq. I asked at that time
> if that was a registered trademark of Microsoft. I did not hear
> whether or not it was, just suddenly it was groovy-ginq without any
> further discussion.
>
> So I propose groovy-ginq be renamed to one of the following:
>
> groovy-query
>
> groovy-linq
>
> groovy-inq
>
> Or my proposal to incorporate it into the groovy-sql module could be
> reconsidered.
>
> This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient and contains
> information that may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not
> an intended recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and
> delete this e-mail and any attachments. Certain required legal entity
> disclosures can be accessed on our website:
> https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en/resources/disclosures.html