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Posted to fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org by Clay Leeds <cl...@medata.com> on 2004/11/08 17:29:55 UTC
Re: XMLGraphics temp site up
On Nov 8, 2004, at 5:51 AM, Thomas DeWeese wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Well, I must admit to not being really excited by the new logo.
> Not to hurt people's feelings, note that it is good, but I think it
> could be better. None of these are really strong held but are my
> opinions.
I was hoping for feedback (my first post RE: the 'new' logo was in
August--albeit on fop-dev), so I welcome any feedback I can get. Glen's
comment RE: using ws.a.o as another example notwithstanding (thanks
Glen!), I haven't had any other comments yet (hint! hint! ;-)).
> As it currently is I actually prefer the 'non svg shapes'
> version as the used shapes are rather simplistic (it makes it looks
> like an 80's graphics package).
I agree wholeheartedly. My intent was to get the idea of pushing the
graphics out there, but perhaps using gradient-filled shapes or
something might be better (or better yet, perhaps I should just shrink
the tiger...). This logo is actually my first *real* attempt at playing
with SVG (I'd done some shapes before--which is why I added the
shapes).
> The text is a bit hard to read over the Apache feather. I
> know that you added the white surround and it helps but the letters
> still 'disappear' into the noise of the feather more than I would
> like.
I agree. I actually spent a bit of time on that, and was never
particularly happy when I was done.
> Now for a few suggestions:
>
> I have seen some of the Apache projects that left justify
> the text and move the feather up next to the 'The Apache'. This
> would work well for us since 'XML Graphics Project' is quite a
> bit longer.
Sounds good. If I can find the time this week, I'll play around with it.
> The URL in the corner is the old xml.apache.org URL, it
> should of course be xmlgraphics.apache.org (Ideally I'd like
> to turn this 90deg and have it run vertically, but it's too long
> to be readable when this is done).
>
> If we want to have 'svg' in the logo I would look at the
> samples directory of Batik[1] and pull out some of those. The one's
> that come to mind would be either of the map images (mapSpain,
> mapWaadt - which could be used pretty much 'as is') or perhaps
> grab elements from sunRise (although that is a little 'eclipse' like).
Thanks! There's some really cool stuff in there!
<http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/
batik3D.png?rev=1.6&view=markup>
<http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/
batik70.png?rev=1.6&view=markup>
<http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/
batikLogo.png?rev=1.10&view=markup>
Favorite ideas/themes:
<http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/
batikBatik.png?rev=1.5&view=markup>
<http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/
batikYin.png?rev=1.5&view=markup>
<http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/
textRotate.png?rev=1.10&view=markup>
I also like the Sun and the 'waxing crescent Moon' from here:
<http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/
moonPhases.png?rev=1.11&view=markup>
I think I like batikBatik.png best! I'd like to see what I could do to
get an Apache XML Graphics Project logo done in that kind of 'theme'...
> My actual preference would be to include 'icons' from the sub
> projects in the new logo. For Batik this is simple since we already
> use the 'squiggle' heavily for this purpose (this is the
> red/green/blue mark in a bunch of places).
That's doable. I don't know if the squiggles are well commented in
those .svg files, but if they are they should be easy to add. If not,
could you or someone familiar with these attach the <svg/> for it to a
JIRA/bugzilla issue?
> I don't know if FOP has a
> similar readily available icon you could use.
This is about all we have:
http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/xml-fop/images/logo.jpg
although I have a close approximation for an svg logo. I'll see what I
can come up with.
> I would picture these
> icons 'looped' together in a clear area on the right side (think
> of an infinity sign with the batik logo on one side and Fop on the
> other). As more projects join we can add icons for them to the
> looping. Alternately we could come up with a new icon just for
> XML Graphics (a complex 'document' with the corner turned and
> on the back is XML - might be hard to pull off in a ~51px square)
I like the idea of the separate icon for XML Graphics, because I
envision other projects joining in.
> [1]
> http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/test-references/samples/
>
>>> I've placed a temporary xmlgraphics.apache.org site live on my
>>> homepage. Please take a look and provide feedback and comments:
>>>
>>> http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/xml-fop/xml-graphics/
I would guess that given your background in Batik, you might have more
'dexterity' in creating SVG than I. If you (or anyone else reading) has
the time (I know, who has that?) I'd love to see what other folks can
come up with.
Web Maestro Clay
--
Clay Leeds - <cl...@medata.com>
Webmaster/Developer - Medata, Inc. - <http://www.medata.com/>
PGP Public Key: <https://mail.medata.com/pgp/cleeds.asc>
Re: XMLGraphics temp site up
Posted by Clay Leeds <cl...@medata.com>.
On Nov 8, 2004, at 11:20 AM, Thomas DeWeese wrote:
> Clay Leeds wrote:
>> I've attached a slightly (very rough!) modified version which gives
>> an idea of what I think may work better. Namely, the paper is curled
>> in a different direction, so the XML on the 'back side' is
>> horizontal, making it more readable. Although it's not 'true' (i.e.,
>> the text would actually look more like yours), I think the
>> readability outweighs the suspension of disbelief :-).
>
> I'll try and work on it, but I'm awfully busy right now.
I don't see this as a showstopper, so take your time. We can always
update the logo when we tire of the 'old' one. :-) In fact, we don't
even have the domain stuff ironed out yet (although it's forthcoming).
>> Since you're using Illustrator for your version, I'm hoping you could
>> make it even better using the source files. Still, I do like the
>> batikBatik.png theme.
>> On a related note, I'm having trouble when I open batikBatik.svg[1].
>> The image is almost all on one layer (one of the leaves has handles
>> and can be moved). Any ideas?
>
> This is sort of the way the document is created. The fill is a
> rect that covers the canvas, and it is made to look like a leaf with
> a clip-path. Also there is some grouping going on so you need to
> ungroup to get to some stuff. My oldish version of Illustrator drops
> some of the fill content :/
My mistake. I figured it out. I clicked in the document window
(selecting the entire graphic plus the leaf), and then looked for
"Ungroup" in the Object menu, which was inactive/gray. However, I
deselecting the graphic, and doing a Select-All. I needed to choose
Select > Next Object Below.
Sorry for the 'waste' of time.
Web Maestro Clay
--
Clay Leeds - <cl...@medata.com>
Webmaster/Developer - Medata, Inc. - <http://www.medata.com/>
PGP Public Key: <https://mail.medata.com/pgp/cleeds.asc>
Re: XMLGraphics temp site up
Posted by Thomas DeWeese <Th...@Kodak.com>.
Clay Leeds wrote:
> I've attached a slightly (very rough!) modified version which gives an
> idea of what I think may work better. Namely, the paper is curled in a
> different direction, so the XML on the 'back side' is horizontal, making
> it more readable. Although it's not 'true' (i.e., the text would
> actually look more like yours), I think the readability outweighs the
> suspension of disbelief :-).
I'll try and work on it, but I'm awfully busy right now.
> Since you're using Illustrator for your version, I'm hoping you could
> make it even better using the source files. Still, I do like the
> batikBatik.png theme.
>
> On a related note, I'm having trouble when I open batikBatik.svg[1]. The
> image is almost all on one layer (one of the leaves has handles and can
> be moved). Any ideas?
This is sort of the way the document is created. The fill is a
rect that covers the canvas, and it is made to look like a leaf with
a clip-path. Also there is some grouping going on so you need to
ungroup to get to some stuff. My oldish version of Illustrator drops
some of the fill content :/
Re: XMLGraphics temp site up
Posted by Clay Leeds <cl...@medata.com>.
On Nov 8, 2004, at 10:21 AM, Thomas DeWeese wrote:
> Clay Leeds wrote:
<snip>
>> This logo is actually my first *real* attempt at playing with SVG
>> (I'd done some shapes before--which is why I added the shapes).
>
> This is a lot easier to do with an appropriate tool like
> Adobe Illustrator, or perhaps SodiPodi, or Sketsa (I've only
> really used Illustrator).
True. However, at the time I was more intrigued with the idea of
'drawing' with text. Quite powerful and fun(!?)...
>>> Now for a few suggestions:
>>>
>>> I have seen some of the Apache projects that left justify
>>> the text and move the feather up next to the 'The Apache'. This
>>> would work well for us since 'XML Graphics Project' is quite a
>>> bit longer.
>> Sounds good. If I can find the time this week, I'll play around with
>> it.
>
> See attached example. It's not great, the xml on the page isn't
> _quite_ large enough I don't think (for a 52 pixel rendering).
> Also the radial gradient is a cheap way to keep the rest of the logo
> from looking too plain. It would be better to have something like a
> floorplan or chart or Illuminated text softly in the background.
I do like it a lot. Perhaps if the curl was more like the 'page curl'
resulting from the KPT plugin of the same name (I think that's what
it's called--it's been a while sine I thought about it. If you can make
it have less of a curve, it might be more readable (see attached).
>> That's doable. I don't know if the squiggles are well commented in
>> those .svg files, but if they are they should be easy to add. If not,
>> could you or someone familiar with these attach the <svg/> for it to
>> a JIRA/bugzilla issue?
>
> The squiggle is a 'symbol' from batikLogo.svg. It should be
> trivial to pull out.
OK.
>>> I don't know if FOP has a
>>> similar readily available icon you could use.
>> This is about all we have:
>> http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/xml-fop/images/logo.jpg
>
> Very good, but not quite Iconic, although I really like the
> idea of using the Apache feather as a 'quill'. :)
>
>> I like the idea of the separate icon for XML Graphics, because I
>> envision other projects joining in.
>
> Yes, this is the main problem with the 'icons' logo it
> doesn't really 'unite' the projects. It actually tends to
> emphasize there independence.
>
>> I would guess that given your background in Batik, you might have
>> more 'dexterity' in creating SVG than I. If you (or anyone else
>> reading) has the time (I know, who has that?) I'd love to see what
>> other folks can come up with.
>
> For 'artsy' stuff you really can't hand code SVG you have to use a
> tool. But it helps to know SVG to trim and combine the 'artsy'
> elements into a compact logo.
Too true. That's why I was quite happy with the square, triangle and
circle (although I agree they're far too simple for our purposes! We
need to show how powerful the Apache XML Graphics Project can be!)
> <xmlgraphicsLogo.png>
I've attached a slightly (very rough!) modified version which gives an
idea of what I think may work better. Namely, the paper is curled in a
different direction, so the XML on the 'back side' is horizontal,
making it more readable. Although it's not 'true' (i.e., the text would
actually look more like yours), I think the readability outweighs the
suspension of disbelief :-).
Since you're using Illustrator for your version, I'm hoping you could
make it even better using the source files. Still, I do like the
batikBatik.png theme.
On a related note, I'm having trouble when I open batikBatik.svg[1].
The image is almost all on one layer (one of the leaves has handles and
can be moved). Any ideas?
[1]
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-batik/samples/batikBatik.svg
Web Maestro Clay
--
Clay Leeds - <cl...@medata.com>
Webmaster/Developer - Medata, Inc. - <http://www.medata.com/>
PGP Public Key: <https://mail.medata.com/pgp/cleeds.asc>
Re: XMLGraphics temp site up
Posted by Thomas DeWeese <Th...@Kodak.com>.
Clay Leeds wrote:
> On Nov 8, 2004, at 5:51 AM, Thomas DeWeese wrote:
>
>> As it currently is I actually prefer the 'non svg shapes'
>> version as the used shapes are rather simplistic (it makes it looks
>> like an 80's graphics package).
>
> I agree wholeheartedly. My intent was to get the idea of pushing the
> graphics out there, but perhaps using gradient-filled shapes or
> something might be better (or better yet, perhaps I should just shrink
> the tiger...). This logo is actually my first *real* attempt at playing
> with SVG (I'd done some shapes before--which is why I added the shapes).
This is a lot easier to do with an appropriate tool like
Adobe Illustrator, or perhaps SodiPodi, or Sketsa (I've only
really used Illustrator).
>> Now for a few suggestions:
>>
>> I have seen some of the Apache projects that left justify
>> the text and move the feather up next to the 'The Apache'. This
>> would work well for us since 'XML Graphics Project' is quite a
>> bit longer.
>
>
> Sounds good. If I can find the time this week, I'll play around with it.
See attached example. It's not great, the xml on the page isn't
_quite_ large enough I don't think (for a 52 pixel rendering).
Also the radial gradient is a cheap way to keep the rest of the logo
from looking too plain. It would be better to have something like a
floorplan or chart or Illuminated text softly in the background.
> That's doable. I don't know if the squiggles are well commented in
> those .svg files, but if they are they should be easy to add. If not,
> could you or someone familiar with these attach the <svg/> for it to a
> JIRA/bugzilla issue?
The squiggle is a 'symbol' from batikLogo.svg. It should be
trivial to pull out.
>> I don't know if FOP has a
>> similar readily available icon you could use.
>
> This is about all we have:
> http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/xml-fop/images/logo.jpg
Very good, but not quite Iconic, although I really like the
idea of using the Apache feather as a 'quill'. :)
> I like the idea of the separate icon for XML Graphics, because I
> envision other projects joining in.
Yes, this is the main problem with the 'icons' logo it
doesn't really 'unite' the projects. It actually tends to
emphasize there independence.
> I would guess that given your background in Batik, you might have more
> 'dexterity' in creating SVG than I. If you (or anyone else reading) has
> the time (I know, who has that?) I'd love to see what other folks can
> come up with.
For 'artsy' stuff you really can't hand code SVG you have to use a
tool. But it helps to know SVG to trim and combine the 'artsy'
elements into a compact logo.